why does it matter who Clark voted for in the past

[davidinalameda]

or who he raised money for or anything else that people bring up

the thing that I'm looking at is that he is NOW a Democrat

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Really

Reagan's the poster boy for the RNC and he was a New Deal Democrat....

[StopTheMorans]

2. it gives an indicator of how he thought in the past

and certain views that were important to him. Just that, but he should have to explain how and why he changed his views.

[bearfartinthewoods]

31. if isaid that i voted for regan and bush they'd call me a freeper

and hit alert

[PurityOfEssence]

35. Not if you explained why and repudiated it

The act of saying one may or may not have voted for them but don't really remember shows that one has a selfishly casual attitude for politics for one attempting to enter at the top. That should be explained too.

I don't need full hair-shirt self-flagellation and public penance, but it would help.

If you said you'd voted that way and went on to say you were suckered, or used to be a dick but have reformed, you'd be welcomed like the prodigal son-of-a-bitch. That's the big issue for me.

The idea of just blythely tossing off a disaffected "oh I might have voted for so-and-so (and these were a couple of REAL so-and-sos) but don't remember" prompts me to say: "Oh really? Would you vote for them today? Why not? Does it all matter more to you now? Do you think people should just take this casually? Have you REALLY changed since then? Don't you think statements like this are reckless? As president are you going to just toss off limp inflammatory statements like this as if ordering a cheeseburger? Would you tolerate this from your subordinates?" As you can imagine, I'd go on and on; this needs to be addressed immediately.

The last thing we need is a casual emperor; we've already got one.

[bearfartinthewoods]

37. has he explaimed etc?

he's had weeks to do it.

[CMT]

3. it is funny that is the big deal. to my way of thinking his other

comment that he would "probably" have voted for the Iraqi War Resolution is more important than whether he voted for Nixon in '72 or Reagan in "80 and '84.

[goobergunch]

5. I concur. (n/t)

[StephNW4Clark]

7. Iraqi War Resolution

The headline was sensationalized. If you read further, you'll see his answer is more specific than that.

His point was: pass a resolution authorizing the President to go to war ONLY IF the president returned to Congress and Congress passed the final declaration. In other words, use the threat of force via the resolution to gain leverage in the UN but don't give the final say to the president.

[edward]

11. Almost amounts to the same thing.

A stronger bill proposed by Senator Carl Levin(D-MI) was to allow troops only if the UN agreed to an invasion of Iraq(voted on, not passed).
Levin knew it was not going to pass, but at least it gave him and others a way to tie our action to something more judicious.

[goobergunch]

28. Like the Spratt Amendment (n/t)

[dsc]

4. For me it depends on why

Why did he vote for Reagan, and in which year? Carter had seriously infuriated many Arkansans by his wearhousing of Cuban prisioners at Fort Smith Arkansas where a riot broke out. Did he cast an anti Carter vote? If he agreed with Reagan's message back then I would want a serious explanation as to why he doesn't anymore. But if he voted against Carter for one reason or another that is a different story.

I would also want to know why he supports Democrats now. Especially if voting for Republicans was a pattern for him. Many people left the Republican party over Civil rights, abortion, or gay rights to name three issues. Others left the Democratic party for the same issues. If he was once a fairly solid Republican then I would want to know what caused the change.

[StephNW4Clark]

9. Why He Changed Parties

If you go to digitalclark.com there is an interview where he explains this.

He feels that for one thing, people think military=Republican. So when he first got out of the military, all these Republicans said, "You can't run as a Democrat! You're from the miltary!" He found this to be one of the more stupid things the GOP has said lately.

He believes in liberalism and the liberal democracy. Check out the Real Time with Bill Maher clip where he defends it. He believes in dissent, and thought that before Republicanism wasn't as polarizing, absolute and scary Christian right as it is now. He's pro-affirmative action, pro-choice, BIG on the environment (his post-military work involves looking at oil and energy alternatives). He also feels that the Democrats really are the big tent where dissent is encouraged and political dialogue is at its most vibrant.

[StephNW4Clark]

12. Clarification

Energy alternatives FOR oil...not looking at ways to drill more oil and make us even more dependent.

[Donna Zen]

18. In his book

he discusses how shut out the military felt after Vietnam, and how the society "shut out" the military. This was especially true of liberals; even though Clark was socially liberal when one considers the positions he assumed on internationalism, and the social positions within the Army (affirmative action, education, better pay, better housing)

What is unfortunate is that Clark was correct when he deduced that the liberals could not accept him. Never in all of my life have I seen such a trashing of an "honorable man" (Chris Hedges words p. 61)

Whether it be looking for the incendiary quote while excluding the context, failing to read at all, or relying on pieced together assertions, the case is made in only by name calling and use of the broad brush. So we find ourselves today, ignoring his call to cut defense while imaging that Geo Soros might be hiding under our bed.

[Donna Zen]

38. An idea

Ask Senator Jeffords....

then again, according to DU, he must be a AEI mole. Guilt by association; who would have thought it.

[Skittles]

6. if he DIDN'T VOTE

I'd have a problem with that.

[Pastiche423]

8. It matters because

until the age of 44, he had the mindset of a repug.

Sorry, I don't buy he's had an epiphany. Hell he couldn't even say he WAS a Democrat until two weeks ago.

[sandnsea]

10. It shows his inclinations

He is inclined to lean toward Republican policy. If in the course of the next few months he begins to point out where that policy has gone wrong or how true Republican policy has been twisted, then I'll be ready to really give him a listen. But I'm going to have to be convinced that HE has become personally convinced that we are really moving in the wrong direction on all fronts. Religion, civil rights, poverty, foreign policy, all of it. I won't know that for a while. What does he mean about vouchers for instance. Is he considering it as a stop gap measure while we get our public schools funded? That I can handle. But he hasn't clarified yet. Because he has that Republican background, I have to take a wait and see approach.

[roughsatori]

13. He spoke at a Republican Fundraiser as Keynote Sp. in 20001

He did this during his Democrat period--not 20 years ago.

I hope that is not the kind of Democrat this party is being reduced to putting up as a candidate.

Here is a link to a DU thread with links to back up that claim: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=369183#369351

[Catholic Sensation]

17. who fucking cares?

Al Franken spoke at a pro-war rally set up by Clear Channel less than eight months ago, are you going to throw out his exceptional book?

Robert Kennedy worked for hard line conservative Joseph McCarthy, does that mean you would have voted against him if he were up against Nixon?

The answer to both these things is "NO" so stop bitching and just fucking support the democrats, Jesus.

[roughsatori]

21. You take the Lord's Name in Vain with a Cross Avatar

That says so much about you. Obviously living by one's proclaimed beliefs is meaningless to you. Hypocrites rarely care about things like that.

And it matters to enough of us that Clark will not win the primary.
Hallelujah

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roughsatori]

25. I feel sorry for you and will pray for you

And I do not mean that as an insult.

[edward]

29. That's cool. But everytime someone says it, it sounds insulting.

Theology here. But is there anyway to tell someone you feel sorry for them without being condescending? When Christians say that to me it sounds that way. Why don't they just pray to their God; why tell me that is what they are going to do?
(and please, I know you were sincere, not trying to stir trouble here)

[roughsatori]

32. I know you weren't starting trouble

I actually prayed before and after posting that. I Thought that because the poster had a Cross as an avatar it would be a wake up call. I would not have said that if they did not have the Cross avatar. And I get angry but ultimately do feel sorry for people who would do that, the internal dissonance must be hard to deal with for them.

In the last month I have noted at least 5 people with Cross avatars taking the Lord's name in vain and plain old cursing. It just strikes me as very disrespectful to Jesus Christ; unless they have the avatar to mock that symbol, then it makes sense.

I was going to post my own tread to discuss this--but I did not want a flame war. And since I am not perfect I knew I would get a slew of: Who are you to judge?

[edward]

33. Well, I basically agree with you.

Was really more in agreement with what you did.
Reminds me of the joke where rabbis are praying about not being worthy of God's blessings. One rabbi is dramatically laying prone and wailing. One rabbi says to the other, Oh, look who thinks he's more unworthy than thou.

[sandnsea]

36. That's your puritan interpretation

Don't dump it off on somebody else who has a more forgiving view of Christianity. Your condemnation is far worse than his use of the word fuck. And now you can go ahead and condemn me for condemning you.

[dsc]

19. Wow

That would be Little Rock's big Republican fundraiser which means he helped fund Hutchenson and Huckabee. I am sure there are worse candidates out there but there aren't a whole lot of them.

[StephNW4Clark]

20. Please read what he was talking about

He was talking about BUILDING INTERNATIONAL COALITIONS and the need for ALLIANCES.

Look - one of his defining characteristics is his commitment to restoring political dialogue on both sides of the aisle. He's said this over and over again. Remember when he gave that speech in 2001, the Bush administration had just said "Hey, we're going to be isolationists. We're pulling out of the Kyoto Protocol, talks with North Korea and seriously considering reduction in NATO commitments." Clark has always said that he takes as many opportunities as possible to talk about the need for internationalism.

I'd rather have a President who understands that we still need to work with people with different viewpoints, and sometimes it's necessary to talk to them. He was never registered as a Republican, and has quite firmly declared himself to be liberal.

[roughsatori]

23. Raising money for Repugs in 2001, that is the topic I care about

I do not see any honest student of the Enlightenment voting Reagan and Nixon.

[tsipple]

26. That's a Bit Questionable

Helping the GOP raise funds in 2001.

[oasis]

14. Why does it matter? Because the anti-Clarks have damn little else

in their "attack" arsenal.

[sangh0]

15. It's information, and information is good

What's not so good is the way some people jump to conclusions because of one piece of info, instead of examining the whole package

[dfong63]

16. how can you be sure?

the thing that I'm looking at is that he is NOW a Democrat

today he's a democrat. yesterday he wasn't. tomorrow? who knows. that's not the kind of leadership the dems need.

[goodhue]

22. 2000

Did Clark vote in 2000? If so, who did he vote for? Anyone?

[StephNW4Clark]

27. He voted for Gore

[leftofthedial]

30. paltry political record

he has no legislative or other political track record, so people will focus on what few details there are, like his previous voting patterns.

That's reasonable, but the more important thing with Clark, as with ALL the candidates, is not what they did in the past, it is what he say and do now.

[bowens43]

34. Is he?

How do we know? Having a (D) next to your name on the ballot doesn't really make you a Democrat. Zell Miller has a (D) next to his name.

[sugarcookie]

39. My thoughts

In all honesty, I'd been pulling for Dean and Clark until the onslaught of information. I'm still trying to sort fact from fiction.

If it comes down to splitting hairs...Yes, it would be a deciding factor (for me). If I could not vote for Dean, then Edwards, DK, Graham and the others would get my loyalty first. Most of them have been out there working for the party longer than Clark has been a Democrat and I think I owe it to them.