What's your household income?

[JanMichael]

Poll question: What's your household income?

http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/1615/1/2/

[disgruntella]

1. that question always makes me giggle

I've lived alone for almost 10 years; yet I am a "household" <g>

[Cha]

2. Me, too! I'm "a household"! Me, myself, and I like it just fine!

:D

[JanMichael]

5. Well...It's just a way of breaking down the #'s!

Boo!

[bearfartinthewoods]

56. an imperfect way IMHO

we had a post about the cost of rent the other day which illuminated the VASTE differences in cost of living from area to area in this country,

for instance....if i said i owned my own home and 12 acres of land, two vehicles, a boat, a portion of a mountain cabin and land in florida, which quital would you guess i'm in?

[drdigi420]

59. i would guess you were insane

if you had a mountain cabin in florida

[Yupster]

30. Do people call you a household?

try the Atkins Diet, before it's too late.

[Terwilliger]

3. my SSI statement for the last 10 years is pretty bad

if you're a capitalist pig, it would look horrible ;-)

[FloridaPat]

4. WOW. 9 months of unemployment really takes a bite out of

the household income!

[sweetheart]

6. household

What is a house hold? It would seem a house that you hold in permanence... some sort of family farm that if you wander the world for a decade will be waiting for you when you come back... but this is a fallacy in an age of property taxes that force all house"holders" to be wage slavers to pay the recurring taxes... dumb.

The household concept comes from the ideal of the family farm, one where a communist economic unit is designated a unit of production.. one that is organically productive, as a farm is of milk, eggs, wool and such.

The income of my house hold is infinite. I saw the sunset and it was worth a gazillion dollars. Arrogant men know not wealth. It is in the forgiving heart that the seeds of true wealth grow.

[JanMichael]

7. Cut it out!

Don't get all goofilly philosophical dammit!

[sweetheart]

10. a gazillion gazillion dollars

:-) I'm rich. I'm rich. I have a gazillion gazillion dollars yet it does not matter. I am unhappy with all the burdens i've undertaken to gain my wealth... that in the end, i am a sorry twisted soul having sold my very mother for a plate of food.

My dog assures me that "rich" involves slavering over a bone... but i question him... conan says "crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women."... a cinematic paraphrase from chinghis khan... and yet what is "rich"?

Methinks it is when i give up "trying" to be wealthy and accept my lot in life for whatever that is.... and maybe indeed that is wealthy... and maybe the word is just all too monodimensional... and the need to unplug from a monopolar universe all to evident.

[Booberdawg]

8. unemployment sucks

covers subsistence only

[Terwilliger]

9. bunch o rich DUers eh?

how many of you are Clarkies and Deaners?

[disgruntella]

11. pssst

I support Clark, Kerry and Dean - and I'm in the second category in the poll. I took you off ignore just so I could let you know. :D

[Terwilliger]

12. uhhh

you couldnt have seen my post if I was on ignore

nice attempt at a lie though :shrug:

[disgruntella]

15. la la la la la I can't HEEEAAARRR YOU!

:party:

[KAZ]

14. ABB, my friend. n/t

[Terwilliger]

26. Anything But Bullshit??

Alright, Kaz!!! :hi:

ABB '04: Anything But Bullshit!

[KAZ]

33. Believe me, I understand your sentiment.

My sis has been bangin that on me since '00. I'm just a little frightened now.

[Clete]

13. Better educated DU'ers would be in a higher

income strata than others, not to mention union workers. It would be fun to run this poll with conservatives. I think the last category would be the smallest and the first the largest.

[KAZ]

16. Wanna bet?

"I think the last category would be the smallest and the first the largest."

This would be a d#$% measuring contest with them. Not a one would vote "petite".

[JanMichael]

17. Good point...er...I mean idea?

I wonder how many DU'ers lied on this poll?

I know I didn't.

[Nikia]

18. It is anonymous

There would be no reason to lie at least if people answered with good intentions.

[Terwilliger]

19. I didn't

I'll send you the SSI sheet

[KCDem]

20. what's the point of lying?

No one can tell who voted how, unless they divulge it in a post. Which I'm not doing. ;)

[JanMichael]

24. Ohhh! I would bet that some people lie even on anonymous polls!

Seriously, I have no doubt...I've...um...done "it"...

Seek help? Ok, later:evilgrin:

[Patriot_Spear]

21. LMAO...

I was wondering when someone would figure it out...

[KAZ]

29. I would wager that a lot less would lie about this on DU...

then on your typical con board. I think a great many of us measure our worth by our deeds, rather than our paycheck. Alternatively, they savor the bouquet of Massa's excrement. Sorry, I'm getting mean.

[Clete]

35. So I guess I didn't explain very well what I was saying.

I think a few conservatives, Republicans, would be in the top richest classification. I think Fortune just put out their top richest this month. It's a small club. Everyone else would be in the bottom category, who are conservatives, because they haven't figured out that they really aren't going to get a tax break. TRust me the poorest white people, vote Republican.

[KAZ]

38. No, I got ya. I just had to get the (FR)dig in.

And your point is well taken, and often observed.

[jafap]

53. I would like to see one link or source cited

It seems to me that his/her point is an urban myth. Most of the conservative folk I know are pretty well off. That may depend on perspective as well because a $17 an hour factory worker with benefits looks well off to an $8.50 an hour temp working harder in the same factory.
My guess is that the mass of people in the bottom two quintiles make up a majority of the non-voting population. They are the ones who figure that they all are a bunch of crooks and liars so why waste your time going to the poles? Maybe lots of us are convicted felons who can't vote in some states anyway.

[alfredo]

22. On SS disability so I am broke.

Actually I spent most of my life poor or in the underground economy, so I am used to living simple. Went from rib eyes to beans and rice, but what the hell.

[Patriot_Spear]

23. Hey Alfredo, I've been looking out for you at the Dean Meet-ups...

figured I'd see you there...

[JanMichael]

25. There's a certain elegance in not consuming so much shit.

Not everyone can do it, no that's BS, a lot of people claim they can't.

Perseverance!!!!

[ButterflyBlood]

27. i went with middle

since that's how much my parents make. but technically for my "household" it's the bottom one.

[nostamj]

28. Fourth,... BUT,

in NYC that ain't rich at all.... AT ALL

[JanMichael]

31. I know, I considered the MSA differences, but I decided to keep it simple,

However...I posted this http://www.nlihc.org/oor_current/ yesterday but I guess the Clark/Dean/Death to All tone made it a pointless endevour.

It's a great tool IMHO.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. In the Boston area, it's the same

I had six months of unemployment last year and two months jobless this year, so the household income has fallen. The cost of living here is high like Manhattan and the Bay Area-for what we paid for a modest two-bedroom condo here, you could buy a mansion in Texas.

[bpilgrim]

32. compared to the rest of the world we are ALL rich - GlobalRichList.com

http://GlobalRichList.com

go and see where you are compared with the rest of the world.

guess thats why we need such a HUGE military...

peace

[scarletwoman]

34. Gosh, I'm kinda amazed...

I've always known that leading a counter-culture lifestyle meant low income, I just never suspected that so many DUers were making SO much more money than I do! (I'm in the first category in this poll)

No problem though, I've been living outside the mainstream for my entire adult life -- and very happily so. But it's no wonder that I so often can't relate to alot of the opinions here...

sw
:hippie:

[bpilgrim]

37. a typical internet demographic - we are a bunch of rich, white guys ;-)

compared to most...

:hi:

peace

[scarletwoman]

40. Still kinda blows me away...

I had to save for 3 years to afford a computer -- it was one of those serious long-range goals for me. It was HARD! I was determined to get plugged in, so I worked hard to be able to do it.

I don't even have running water, but I darn sure wanted a computer -- it was a major life project. It's really rather amusing to me -- never having had an easy time of things, it's a struggle for me to imagine what it would be like to be a typical American consumer. Thing is, material things have never mattered enough to me to want to put alot of effort into accumulating the means to acquire to them.

Happy in the woods (at least I have electricity :D ),
sw

[Clete]

42. Women struggle harder. It's always been the way.

My first computer was a struggle too. :-)

[scarletwoman]

44. Thanks! I guess I'm so used to it, it just seems normal...

I've been a single mom since 1988. Hasn't been easy, but my children and I have survived just fine -- and my kids are the absolute COOLEST!

Thanks for chiming in -- I think you know what I'm talking about, eh?

sw

[Skittles]

36. me & Tom - $138,000

let me assure you it is VERY lopsided. :O

[Clete]

41. Lemme guess, Tom's is about two-thirds?

[Skittles]

45. not exactly

but....more close than not.

[Brian Sweat]

43. Damn, you folks is imousine liberals.

With that kind of money, should you folks be good Republicans? Oh, I see, now that you guys have gotten rich, you want to keep it all for yourselves.

</angry white freeper mode>

[Skittles]

46. lol...............Brian

I drive a seven year old Cavalier with $3000 worth of hail damage. So much for the limousine look! :7

[NewYorkerfromMass]

48. Proves the maxim from "the millionaire next door"

"You AREN'T what you drive"- People with a decent amount of money and a keen sense of value know better than to waste money on excessive status symbols.

[Yupster]

50. As a stockbroker, I

see the basic idea of the Millionaire Next Door as accurate.

No one could ever match my wealthies clients by looking at their homes or cars. There's just not much relation.

PS - I also agree about the obscenity of guys like Grasso making 40 million a year or some such nonsense. However, I blame it more on the corporate boards who allow it. We need ways for stockholders to get more involved in the decision making rather than they incestuous board members who serve on six boards each and do little work, but do a great job networking and setting up favors to be returned when they run for or hold high offices years later.

Melvin Laird, Condi Rice are terrible, but so are Vernon Jordan and Sam Nunn.

[Skittles]

55. THAT'S ME!

I just f***ing HATE CAR PAYMENTS!!! I'd rather save the extra money or give to charity. That is SO ME.

P.S. YUPSTER - I did receive an insurance check for $2700 - it's part of my savings now! :d

[NewYorkerfromMass]

47. Interesting postulation

We had dinner with the Wall Street friends tonight.
They pull down major $$$ on the order of at least half a million for the household. We got to talking about Grasso (no trough is too big for me NYSE Grasso). Seems their opinion of the dude is that (essentially) he is one mother f*ing morally bereft asshole. Their basic view is that that is one certifiably obscene amount of money, and that capitalism obviously needs restrictions and governors in place because clearly human greed and avarice will always invite abuse.

[BiggJawn]

49. Well...so much for my delusions of "Middle-Class-ness"...

Anyway, I'm now "Working Poor"

Boy, was I dumb.15 years ago, all I wanted was a "normal" job making 40 Kilobucks.
Talk about setting your sights too low...

[Forkboy]

51. It's so low we dont even count it as income

more like outcome.

[ComerPerro]

52. My household depends on your definition

My parents, together, make about $80,000.

But the household, which is the apartment my bro and I live in?
Um, $500 a week or so.

[jafap]

54. a few things about this poll

First, we only have 195 respondents out of 3,000 registered DUers.

Second, right now, at least, we are fairly close to having 20% in each quintile, especially if you consider that computer/internet users are likely to be skewed to the wealthy.

Third, it might be interesting if locality could be factored out somehow. Perhaps income/housing costs, and it would be nice if someone figured out where the quintiles are on that. My ratio would then be 4.39, but that ratio depends partly on how much you choose to spend on housing.

Fourth, income is not a numeraire - it is not the key to all variables determining personal happiness. My parents would be in the 4th quintile, but the fact that they are retired and their house and cars are paid for make them better off than many in that quintile. If I could make the same money without having to drive somewhere to clean toilets I would be better off too. Also, I might be better off if the same income also included health care and I could get a prescription allergy medication.

Fifth, how do the people in various quintiles rate on policies? Are DUers in the top quintile less progressive on tax policy? Are DUers in the bottom quintile less progressive on social policy? Or not? I suppose there is no way to do a follow up poll - you would need a survey.

[Ivory_Tower]

57. This is sort of a blunt instrument

I think this rough grouping really blurs the important details.

I'd like to see this distribution based on location -- the top quintile is probably not as lavish-sounding in areas like NYC, Boston, DC, SF, Chicago, LA, etc., where the cost of living is higher. I know that with my current income, living in Maryland, I'm doing okay, but I'm hardly extravagantly rich, whereas if I had the same income back where I grew up I'd be able to get a pretty nice house.

And dividing income into quintiles, while probably not unusual, ends up lumping the "wealthy" into a pretty large group. The article is talking about the 400 wealthiest Americans, with an average income of 173 million dollars! I'm not sure that a family of four in Arlington, Virginia, earning $85K a year would consider themselves in the same classification as Ken Lay. For that matter, the article points out that the 180,000+ people who earn over a million dollars a year will be getting a tax refund of $93,000 -- the tax refund alone is in the top quintile!

On the other hand, this might be why so many people think they're "rich" and that Bush's policies will help them -- if the Ken Lays of the world are kept in the same group as the middle managers of Northern Virginia, then they're ALL wealthy, and they'll ALL benefit by these policies, right?

[JanMichael]

58. I know that it could be more accurate in regard to MSA...

...but that would require a multi-question survey which wasn't feasible yesterday evening after the 4th beer.

I did intend to add in a sixth catagory to reflect the top 1% but unfortunately I simply forgot to do so.

When it comes to what is a an income really worth I posted this: http://www.nlihc.org/oor_current/

Housing Wages are a very good measurement and the site allowed you to seek out, easily, your Housing Wage by MSA.

That thread dropped like a rock in the midst of the Clark/Dean/Dean/Clark internecine battles. So I simplified it...