Complete online stash of the Diebold memos: RIGHT HERE

[BevHarris]

Some hero parked them in Italy:

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/
http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/sw-announce.w3archive/
http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/rcr.w3archive/
http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/bugtrack.w3archive/
http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/salestalk.w3archive/

In the support link, check out October 2001 for the "alter the audit log in Access" memo, April 2000 for memos that refer to transmitting vote data from optical scan machines by cell phone, April 2002 for a Tab Iredale (senior programmer) memo that urges folks to avoid getting Windows CE certified by anyone, and January 2001 for a memo from Ken Clark (principal engineer) talking about how pointless it is to attempt a recount on a touch screen.

Then, bear in mind that GEMS programs 1.11.14 and 1.17.17 are certified -- and check out how many times they are installing 1.14.xx and 1.15.xx series and using them in elections! (Totally illegal: what this means is the software used in these elections was never looked at by ANYONE except a handful of programmers in Canada.) Pretty much throws the whole certification and testing argument out the window.

There are a few "gems" (pardon the pun) about blaming problems on the customer; one where they find that they upgraded software for the optical scan and now it won't work on some optical scan machines in Virginia. They discuss giving them new optical scans, but decide to instead find a way to blame it on the customer and make them pay for new machines.

Also look for one in Colorado Springs (El Paso County Colorado) where they discuss the fact that they can't pick up a check until they do a demo of what they sold, but they don't have software that does what they sold, so they discuss a way to fake the demo, mentioning they've faked it before...

Boring reading, but productive for anyone who wants to head directly into your attorney general's office and demand that we put a stop to using Diebold optical scan and touch screens.

Bev Harris

[arcane1]

1. sweet!

:toast::toast::toast::toast::toast::toast::toast::toast::toast::toast:

[Booberdawg]

2. Stunning. Absofuckinglutely stunning.

Great work Bev, and all those who have worked on this. Too overwhelming for words ..

[mhr]

3. Amazing Bev

I truly appreciate your determination in bringing this to the light of day.

I just wonder if it isn't time to start a PR campaign independent of the election official, certification track.

Seems that their is enough info here for a little synthesis and packaging.

[Occulus]

4. Wow, lotta info there

Email address lists, for example.

[imax2268]

5. Thanks Bev...

I have been sending out letters to all media outlets like 20/20, 60 minutes, Dateline...etc...trying to get something out there...

Hopefully something will come of this...

Thanks again Bev...good reading...

[yowzayowzayowza]

6. To whomever...

leaked these email databases, if you're lurkin...

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

[yowzayowzayowza]

19. This CANNOT really be...

falling to page two already!

:kick:

[laylah]

7. Absolutely AWESOME!

:kick: for the coffee klatch

[ComerPerro]

8. Kicking

:dem:

[dusty64]

9. Important info,

even though a lot of it is technically over my head. Diebold and their machines are such a sham I can't believe they are allowed to get away with the theft of our Democracy.

[ozymandius]

10. I am glad you've kept going on this, DEMactivist & Jim March too.

I have just about given up on this subject - trying to get substantive information from the SoS office in GA. The last person with whom I spoke at length gave me about thirty minutes of drivel - could not even keep items pertaining to hardware and software in their appropriate context. She has revealed herself to be a clerical hack appointed to interface with meddlesome me.

So my activity is just relegated to sending pointed letters, bringing up points that I know will receive no satisfactory answer. I feel like I am just throwing rocks at the insane asylum - stirring up the crazies anymore.

Thank you Bev and all.

[Hubert Flottz]

11. Again my hat's off to ya!

The links will be in the WV AG's office shortly! The time to raise HELL is now not after another stolen election!

[BeFree]

12. From Diebold News

"" Diebold AdvisorSM is a first-of-its-kind
ATM status monitoring service. It allows financial institutions to obtain 24-hour feedback on the operating status of every ATM in a network.""

Replace ATM with DRE and what do you get? You get a voting machine which can be hacked, ala SLO. They have the technology ... looks like they used it on DRE's.

http://www.diebold.com/solutions/atms/case_studies/case05.htm

[Ani Yun Wiya]

13. My, my what an interesting site!

This a relatively recent bit of "communication"

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Knecht
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:03 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Ballot Receipt Printer NOW required in California




The new Secretary of State just announced that he supports touch screen vendors being required to print a receipt. This has major implications for our new unit. He is only convening a task force at this point, so we don't know the answers to questions like:

We don't know whether the voter would be allowed to touch the receipt. We dont' know whether the voter will be allowed to see the receipt.

If voters know that a printed receipt is there, I believe there will be demand to see it. I am suggesting that R7 development and design folks begin having some discussions on various scenarios of a printed ballot receipt and how we could "hide" the receipt from the voter if necessary or keep them from touching if it comes to that.

Clearly, we can't begin design on anything until we know the parameters. On the other hand, we will be asked for input, and we should have some well conceived input, vs. myself or frank or deborah speaking for development.

Yes, another bad idea, brought to you by our elected politicians.

SteveK


This guy thinks the printed receipt should be HIDDEN?

[dusty64]

14. WTF!

"If voters know that a printed receipt is there, I believe there will be demand to see it." Gee, ya think. Whats going on here?

[preciousdove]

15. Diebold in New Zeeland

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=373525

[Ani Yun Wiya]

16. What is this all about?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Cell Phones and the AccuVote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cell Phones and the AccuVote
From: "Juan A. Rivera" <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 08:59:55 -0300
Disposition-notification-to: "Juan A. Rivera" <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike, in puerto Rico we did use Cell phones with Acuvote succesfully. These were of two types, one was an old bag phone that an adaptor was placed between the handset and the body that had a standard RG-11 connector available. The second was a table top box that could be used with or with out a handset and had a RG-11 jack on the side. Both units were manufactured by motorola and were available from CelularOne.
If the connection can support a decent voice conversation the Acuvote will work via Cel phone. Also we did not have to dial the phone manually, the Accuvote did that just as if it was connected to the wall jack.
PS:On the new cels they have an adaptor for connecting your laptop to the internet with a RG-11 connector available. This will also do the trick.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brown
To: Support
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 11:36 AM
Subject: Cell Phones and the AccuVote


What is Globals stand on using cell phones with the AccuVote? Are there any written instructions for accomplishing this feat?

Mike



Mike Brown

1611 Wilmeth Road

McKinney, TX 75069-8250

972.542.6000

800.433.8683




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Follow-Ups:
RE: Cell Phones and the AccuVote
From: "Mike Brown" <[e-mail]>
References:
Cell Phones and the AccuVote
From: "Mike Brown" <[e-mail]>
Prev by Date: Fw: Thick vertical lines (Minnesota)
Next by Date: RE: Cell Phones and the AccuVote
Index(es):
Chronological
Thread

[bearfan454]

17. JFC this is great !

Bev you have really done it this time. You rule !

[DEMActivist]

18. Get up there

Good Saturday reading.

[ozymandius]

23. I wonder.

Is this a coup - or something similar?

[DEMActivist]

25. Well, it's something, but....

I am ill suited to try and define it. What does one call the corporate theft of democracy?

[Resistance Is Futile]

37. Mussolini defined it as fascism.

[catzies]

55. They need to make room for Diebold's logo on this flag now

Make room for #31 company that bought America :mad:

[nostamj]

20. oh no, you are NOT falling off page one

while I'm online!

:kick:

[ret5hd]

21. and another kick

[Gordon25]

22. Kick. Important!. N/T

[seemslikeadream]

24. e-mail from Steve Knecht

Marin forgot to set their "Track Registration" checkbox (GEMS 1.17.20) in the VoteGroup Editor prior to SET FOR ELECTION. This meant that to do the VReg Import we had to UNSET FOR ELECTION to check this box. (Tab reset it for us behind the scenes), otherwise we would have had to re-burn all menory cards even though we asked it to recover cards, (we are not aware of changes to the db since we set for election), but it said we'd have to reburn all of them.

Tab reset it for us behind the scenes? To me it sounds like Tab was doing something she shouldn't.

[DEMActivist]

26. Ahhh, dear Tab...

You know..none other than Talbot R. Iredale, VP Research & Development and shareholder.

Tab's a he, BTW. :evilgrin:

[gristy]

27. Can get home contact info of many people who quit Diebold over

the years, it looks like. I've found two so far: one in the 2002/03 thread, one in the 2002/04 thread (in http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/salestalk.w3archive/). And I've only looked in four threads.

[gristy]

28. A salesperson rant that she would need to load untested software

in order to fix a problem.

From http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/salestalk.w3archive/ 2002/06

----- Original Message -----
From: Tari Runyan
To: Support ; Sales
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: changing BS format

who made the decision to lose /move the view ballot option in the test count section. This may be a nice touch but imagine loading it up at a customer site and trying to view the ballots only to find the button gone - now that it is loaded - only 5 machines I can go back tomorrow and load all 80 withthe new BS software that to my knowlege isn't tested - in an election I have run anyway - and all for the sake of audio files
something seems wrong with this picture
Tari

[gristy]

29. Information on simultaneously touching 2 positions on the ballot station

So much for "no problems, whatsoever". From http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/salestalk.w3archive/ 2001/06

* To: <[e-mail]>
* Subject: Information on simultaneously touching 2 positions on the ballot station
* From: "Larry Dix" <[e-mail]>
* Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:44:46 -0500
* Importance: Normal

This posting is to clear up some confusion that has been reported in regards to simultaneously touching 2 positions on the ballot station and having the vote assigned to another candidate.

I am told that this has been a long known issue, but it was reported by sales and support while demonstrating at Travis County, Texas. It is not a bug or something that can be fixed by software, but rather an issue of how a resistive touch screen operates, regardless of the manufacturer or vendor. This is a procedural issue that needs to be explained to the support and sales staff. By definition, a resistive touch screen when touched in 2 locations will calculate the resistance and find a median point.

Here is the scenario:

You have a ballot with a race of 5 candidates that allows you to vote for one. Two candidates are touched simultaneously and the vote is registered for the candidate between the 2 that were touched. This is the normal action for a resistive touch panel, but can cause concern. This is something that IT people like to point out and say that our system is flawed. Wrong, all resistive touch screens react in this manner. This will happen on a R6 running CE, I can duplicate on an R5 under NT and a R4 under Windows 98, but the OS has nothing to do with this issue.

I am sure this will be making the rounds with our competitors. Hart will say that is why they have the wheel, ES&S will say that is why they have a stylus. It would be quite interesting if we could try this on a competitors screen, given the opportunity.

[gristy]

30. AccuVote OS developer was a contractor - here's the name

From http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/salestalk.w3archive/ 2001/07

* To: "Support" <[e-mail]>, "Salestalk" <[e-mail]>
* Subject: Direct phone calls to developers
* From: "Talbot Iredale" <[e-mail]>
* Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:33:06 -0700

Since we are not doing any active development on the AccuVote-OS at this time, Guy Lancasters contract time has been reduced and he is not in the office on a regular basis anymore. Therefore if there are any question related to the AccuVote-OS they will be addressed by Ken or myself.

[gristy]

31. Here's an odd exchange in the bug link

From www.sunrise.it/s/lists/bugtrack.w3archive/ 2002/01
I don't know what this "hide window" they refer to is.

Re: mouse click pass through hide window

* To: <[e-mail]>
* Subject: Re: mouse click pass through hide window
* From: "Greg Forsythe" <[e-mail]>
* Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:04:00 -0500
* References: <[e-mail]> <005501c19a0c$bf0fe6e0$[e-mail]>

Well, we finally stopped all those blind voters from using their mice to vote on the hide screen. Awesome.

Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Dmitry Papushin
To: [e-mail]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: mouse click pass through hide window

This is fixed and will be in BS-4-1-8.

Dmitry
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Clark
To: [e-mail]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:33 PM
Subject: mouse click pass through hide window

BS 4.1.5. With the VIBS hide window present, mouse events "pass though" to the ballot underneith the hide window. If you are clever with your clicks, you can vote the ballot on screen even with the hide window present.

Ken

[DEMActivist]

33. Actually, hide window makes sense

if it were programmed correctly.

VIBS is the voting system for the disabled and is conducted with audio ballots. A headphone is attached to the voting machine, allowing the disabled/blind to vote privately.

During a VIBS vote, the ballot SHOULD disappear from the screen because no one should be using it. However, consistent with the lack of quality in this system, they only HIDE the window instead of eliminating it.

Therefore, someone COULD vote on the touchscreen while the disabled voter is also voting on the VIBS ballot.

Cute, huh?

[gristy]

32. The bug report threads are verrrryyyy longggg

For example, from http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/bugtrack.w3archive/ 2002/01. This is just one month of reports. With all these bugs, I question the quality of their development process.

Fw: races squished in ballot layout 1-17-20
RE: confusion about back plates and reports in 1-17-20
RE: races squished in ballot layout 1-17-20
Re: Crystal Reports Race Rotations with Cards
Re: races squished in ballot layout 1-17-20
Calc Vcenter Size fails in GEMS-1-18-8
Re: GEMS 1.17.20 -
VCProgrammer 4-1-1 - Unable to select split precincts using Manual mode 1
Re: VCProgrammer 4-1-1 - Unable to select split precincts using Manual mode
RE: @district macro (was RE: Gems)
RE: @district macro (was RE: Gems)
Re: VCProgrammer 4-1-1 - Unable to select split precincts using Manual mode
Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
Re: VCProgrammer 4-1-1 - Unable to select split precincts using Manual mode
Re: Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
Re: Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
Re: undervote text localization in election results reports
Re: mouse click pass through hide window
Re: mouse click pass through hide window
VCProgrammer 4.1.2 - Party Selection
Some races do not display all cross endorse candidates in BS 4-1-7-1 pre release
BS 4.1.6 - Card Creation not working with VGp2
RE: @district macro (was RE: Gems)
Resetting regional results does not flush pending jobs (was RE: Extra results for Johnson County, KS mock election)
RE: Resetting regional results does not flush pending jobs (was RE: Extra results for Johnson County, KS mock election)
Spyrus creating unauthorized Manager Cards
Unable to change R6 version
RE: Spyrus creating unauthorized Manager Cards
VC Programmer 4-1-2: Missing audit log (Audit.txt).
VC Programmer 4-1-2: Internal IDs are listed as the Precinct Numbers.
No Subject
Error using qwerty keybd in VIBS
Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
Voter Reg Totals Problem with Imports - Standard Import vs. VReg Import
RE: Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
Pennsylvania Cross-Endorse Certification - changing Write-in
RE: Error using qwerty keybd in VIBS
Re: Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
RE: Pennsylvania Cross-Endorse Certification - changing Write-in
Re: Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
No Subject
RE:
RE:
Not all VGRoup2 shows in Create Card dialog in BS4-2-1. was (Re: )
Re: Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
RE: Not all VGRoup2 shows in Create Card dialog in BS4-2-1. was (Re: )
RE: Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
RE: Not all VGRoup2 shows in Create Card dialog in BS4-2-1. was (Re: )
RE: Spyrus creating unauthorized Manager Cards
Re: Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
RE: Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
Re:
RE: Ballot generation - GEMS Exception (EB for the rookie?)
RE: Ballot generation - GEMS Exception (EB for the rookie?)
Re:
Re: Two precincts out of 488 not in order, BS-4-1-7-1, Create Voter Card screen.
BS 4.2.2 Votergroups not coming over properly in Test Count,Not Using Voter Card mode
BS 4.2.2 Headers being programmed on Ballot Station only withVotergroup1 attributes
Re: BS 4.2.2 Votergroups not coming over properly in Test Count,Not Using Voter Card mode
Re: BS 4.2.2 Headers being programmed on Ballot Station only withVotergroup1 attributes
GEMS 1-17-21: Base Precinct IDs are not unique within a report precinct.
Re: BS 4.2.2 Headers being programmed on Ballot Station only withVotergroup1 attributes
Re: BS 4.2.2 Headers being programmed on Ballot Station only withVotergroup1 attributes
Re: GEMS 1-17-21: Base Precinct IDs are not unique within a report precinct.
Fw: Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
Pennsylvania cross-endorsed candidates must show parties represented
RE: Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
RE: Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
Re: Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
RE: Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
Re: Pennsylvania cross-endorse certification Vote for 3
Re: VC Programmer 4-1-2: Internal IDs are listed as the Precinct Numbers.
VCProgrammer 4.1.2 Bug in Party Code Interface to VR
Re: VCProgrammer 4.1.2 Bug in Party Code Interface to VR
VC Programmer 4-1-2: Card created. Internal error upon insertion into Ballotstation.
VIBS selection of new candidate with 5 key overrides previous candidate selection
Reviewing ballot from the first race
RE: VIBS selection of new candidate with 5 key overrides previous candidate selection
invalid main election.adt when downloading from GEMS database copy
BSCE 4-2-2-2 (pre-release): Won't display write-in name after write-in correction.
RE: Reviewing ballot from the first race
Re: BSCE 4-2-2-2 (pre-release): Won't display write-in name after write-in correction.
VC Programmer 4-1-2: Not all parties are displayed when duplicate export ids are entered.
Re: BS 4.2.2 Headers being programmed on Ballot Station only withVotergroup1 attributes
Re: BS 4.2.2 Headers being programmed on Ballot Station only withVotergroup1 attributes
Fw: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
Fw: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
RE: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
Re: VCProgrammer 4.1.2 - Party Selection
Re: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
RE: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
BS-4-2-2-2: View Ballot Results: Doesn't sort by "BAL".
RE: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
RE: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
Re: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
Re: BS-4-2-2-2: View Ballot Results: Doesn't sort by "BAL".
Fw:
DFM VReg Import - NOT Displaying Parties in VOTER REGISTRATION display
Re: VC Programmer 4-1-2: Not all parties are displayed when duplicate export ids are entered.
Re: VC Programmer 4-1-2: Card created. Internal error upon insertion into Ballotstation.
Re: DFM VReg Import - NOT Displaying Parties in VOTER REGISTRATION display
Re: VREG DFM IMPORT NOT IMPORTING GREEN PARTY TOTALS
BS CE4.1.8 - VIBS Writein - Can't End Selection
RE: GEMS 1-17-21: Base Precinct IDs are not unique within a report precinct.
Fw: BS CE4.1.8 - VIBS Writein - Can't End Selection
RE: BS CE4.1.8 - VIBS Writein - Can't End Selection
Re: GEMS 1-17-21: Base Precinct IDs are not unique within a report precinct.
Re: Voter Reg Totals Problem with Imports - Standard Import vs. VReg Import
BS 4.2.3 display error
Write-in vote cancel buttons 0 vs 5
GEMS-1-17-21: Race Editor: Should not display <N.P> as default for Voter Group 2.
RE: Write-in vote cancel buttons 0 vs *
RE: Write-in vote cancel buttons 0 vs *
Re: BS 4.2.3 display error
RE: Write-in vote cancel buttons 0 vs *
RE: Write-in vote cancel buttons 0 vs *
RE: BS 4.2.3 display error
RE: Write-in vote cancel buttons 0 vs *
RE: Write-in vote cancel buttons 0 vs *
keyboard stops working after write-in if voted by screen
Re: BS 4.2.3 display error RE: BS4-1-1-0 Vibs dialog enunciating wrong canidate names
Re: BS4-1-1-0 Vibs dialog enunciating wrong canidate names
VC Programmer 4-1-3: Hide Ballot: Hide Ballot stats checked after card is created.
VC Programmer 4-1-3: "Hide Ballot's checkmark reappears after unchecking it.
RE: VC Programmer 4-1-3: "Hide Ballot's checkmark reappears after unchecking it.
RE: VC Programmer 4-1-3: Hide Ballot: Hide Ballot stats checked after card is created.
Re: VC Programmer 4-1-3: Hide Ballot: Hide Ballot stats checked after card is created.
Re: VC Programmer 4-1-3: "Hide Ballot's checkmark reappears after unchecking it.
VCProgrammer 4.1.3

[Cocoa]

83. I see it exactly the opposite as you do

I see volume of bug reports being directly related to quality.

Just consider the extreme, if the QA people reported no bugs, does that mean the product was perfect? To me, it means they missed all their bugs.

[gristy]

108. Your point of view is valid too.

But... It depends if these are bugs are being reported from from the field or are bugs documented by engineers in the factory during development. This many problems shouldn't be getting out into the field, only to be discovered during alpha test, or maybe even beta test.

[seemslikeadream]

34. Amusing Internet voting irony

E-mail from Steve Knecht

This is from today's NewYork Times online. It seems that ICANN, the new Internet Corporations for Assigned Names and Numbers, which is to preside over the Internet domain name service (DNS) among other things, is having an Internet-based election of its new members. But the election was halted because of "unknown" technical problems. This among world-class Internet technology experts! And ther are only a total of a few dozens of votes involved!
Enjoy,
David

Is it as amusing as having your e-mails on a site in Italy?

[never cry wolf]

35. Can't let this slip too far down the page

also an opportunity to thank all those working so hard on this issue!!!

:yourock:

[RainDog]

36. who wants to be The Explainer?

first, thanks to the super heroes who made information available about this most important issue.

now who wants to be "tah dah dah daaaaah" The Explainer. Mild-mannered computer literate person offline, online saver of humanity from itself with easy to understand, mostly jargon free explanations for what is going on for the Luddites and the way behind on this issue, and whoever else needs some help (I would put myself in all three categories, btw)

Sooooo...when our story last aired...

[DEMActivist]

38. Simple explanation....

Those of us who have been involved in the review of this software could see and sense the arrogance, the lack of skills, the "vaporware" approach to the product - the theft of elections.

However, in these memos, we also get to see the corporate culture and the basis of all those things we were seeing beforehand.

These folks sold the product, then rushed back to create that which they had just sold. They called it customization, but it really was cheating, stealing and making it up as they went.

Notice the culture of "hacking, fancy footwork, blame the user" behavior, behind the 3 programmers who were hacking, cracking and stealing the votes along the way.

Note the culture of lying and cheating to the agencies who were supposed to keep them honest; the ability of the agencies to ask for a "cover my ass" answer and receiving same.

Note the contradictions in the sales literature/presentations and the truth in the internal memos where they laughed at the elections officials and how easily they were fooled.

Note the desire by the elections officials to be led by the nose down the primrose path so they didn't have to ask the hard questions and deal with the problems those answers would create.

It's all enough to make you sick. But it's enough to tell you, without a doubt, that a corporate culture exists which has every intention of taking our votes and doing with them as they please. Corporate American has every intention of choosing our next president for us.

Tune in tomorrow for "As the Vote Turns."

[RainDog]

42. how about A Short History of Nearly Everything about BBV?

I'm kicking this thread, but for those who are just coming on to DU, it would be nice if a succint summary were possible.

I'll copy and save it for the next time someone asks...

[Eloriel]

39. Very, very cool

Thanks, hero who parked them in Italy.

Does this mean there won't be any cease and desist orders to get in our way?

Eloriel

[seemslikeadream]

40. Alright here's a nice one!

When it comes to trademark infringement, similar products if services must be involved to prove infringement. Dissimilarities such as the application a device is used for, or even the customer base it is sold to, can be enough to kill a case.

If you take a look at the Patent Trademark website www.uspto.gov and look up GEMS, you'll find a number of patents that exist for a wide variety of products. The reason why they can share the same name is because the consumer is not likely to confuse one product with the other. And that is the name of the game.

The Lexmark AccuFeed is probably a general paper feeder sold to the general public. The Global AccuFeed is used only to feed election ballots and is sold only to the local and county governments. Shouldn't be a problem for us but we'd probably have to go through a patent lawyer for absolute assurances. Probably cross that bridge when we get to it.

We probably could have fought for the use of AccuTouch, and won because of our specific application, but we happened to be buying the touch panel for the AV-TS from the company(ELO) who used that name for the touch panel product they sold us. A trademark lawsuit is not condusive to a stable business relationship.

If anybody tries today to use our trademark "AccuVote" or "Accu-Vote", we could establish that Global had it first and that's all you really have to do. We have started to put the TM symbol on our documentation, to ward off potential patent infringenment, but the best we could do is get our trademark registered.
Ian

People may also be amused to check ou the Lexmark Z series printer. I wonder what we are going to rename the Accu-Feed to when IBM comes after us. AccuVote-F perhaps?
Ken

At least Accu-Vote/AccuVote seems safe!
...but where's the TM?
guy

If you go to www.votation.com, is anyone else struck by their use of Global and Elections. Any proprietary issues here?

Ah yes, "The Global Elections Company". It has a very familiar ring to it doesn't it?

Our company name is so generic that it would be difficult to defend any but the most blatant use of our full name, Global Election Systems. Still, a lawsuit can be useful for other things, such as drawing attention to ourselves, but I suspect that we wouldn't want this kind of attention.
Guy

[Cronus Protagonist]

41. Hey Bev, any chance we can get all of the files at once?

A zip file, for instance, or severl zip files? As you know i've found a few interesting things mining zip files of these conversations and I could use some more to ferret through.



Click Here To See Fair & Balanced Buttons, Stickers & Magnets!>

[Kelvin Mace]

43. Noticed something curious....

Email from Larry Dix, 5/14/2001.

PsiNet, the company that is the ITA (Independent Testing Authority) for our voting software has undergone a name change. They will now be Metamor. This will be a name change only, and all indications are that they will continue to be the ITA that will review our GEMS software.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Later in 2002, Metamor changes its name *again* to Ciber. How do you trust an ITA that keeps changing its name?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org
Distrusting the Government Since 1984

[punpirate]

67. It's not so much random name changes, David...

... it's companies getting into and out of the business--probably because they find it's a lot more headaches than profits, and it certainly doesn't give them a technological edge in having an inside look at this crappy a level of technology.

I think in each case, starting with Nichols Research, each successive company simply sells its interests to someone else. This is how Shawn Southworth has been an employee of all of the last four or five software certifiers. They simply had the exact same operation under different owners.

In fact, when I checked on Ciber, not only was the address and suite number the same as for the previous ITA, so were the phone numbers. I'd bet a steak dinner to a doughnut that they didn't even change the locks, because all the employees were the same ones employed by the previous ITA.

Cheers.

[Kelvin Mace]

70. I spotted one explanation

PSINet went chapter 11, but the ITA division was "spun off"

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[alfredo]

44. I have made contact with

my attorney general, and two state reps. I hope they will take the time to read my letters. If I don't hear from them soon, I will call.

Need to know if there are other Kentucky activist working on this.

I have contacted Rep's Mary Lou Marzian and Ernesto Scorsone. Mary Lou's county uses Diebold.

[BevHarris]

45. Heh heh heh : LOOK AT THIS ONE (support Jan 2001 stash)

From: Lana Hires
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 8:07 AM
To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Cc: Deanie Lowe
Subject: 2000 November Election

Hi Nel, Sophie & Guy (you to John),
I need some answers! Our department is being audited by the County. I have been waiting for someone to give me an explanation as to why Precinct 216 gave Al Gore a minus 16022 when it was uploaded. Will someone please explain this so that I have the information to give the auditor instead of standing here "looking dumb". I would appreciate an explanation on why the memory cards start giving check sum messages. We had this happen in several
precincts and one of these precincts managed to get her memory card out of election mode and then back in it, continued to read ballots, not realizing that the 300+ ballots she had read earlier were no longer stored in her memory card . Needless to say when we did our hand count this was discovered.

Any explantations you all can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks bunches,
Lana

[BevHarris]

46. And this, in a discussion of some people wanting a paper trail

RE: AVTS - Voter Summary Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: AVTS - Voter Summary Page
From: "John McLaurin" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 22:26:52 -0500
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <[e-mail]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Said Guy – there is always another side to the discussion. As my mentor often relates – there is a conspiracy around every corner. How about a toggle switch for NY, PA, NJ, OH, IL and CA to switch off the receipt printer. In all the honest states, we can leave it operating (said somewhat tongue in cheek)

[bpilgrim]

84. toggle up, your vote don't count...

'in all the HONEST states' is he talkin bout the DEM States? these folks are pretty blatant.

I can see it now... toggle up, your vote don't count. toggle down your vote might count

peace

[FarLeftRage]

47. Proof right there that they rigged the FLA vote

A smoking gun, if I ever seen one...

[BevHarris]

48. Woh-woh -- Holy Batman look at this followup:

RE: Memory card checksum errors (was: 2000 November Election)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Memory card checksum errors (was: 2000 November Election)
From: "John McLaurin" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:44:50 -0500
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <01d101c0818e$2218be80$3c03a8c0@obrien>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are two separate issues/problems that are getting combined in this stream.

– a check sum error occurred which the poll worker reset and continued counting the card “did not” require downloading before be reset. She never reran the previously counted ballots and this resulted in some negative PR post election. So that is Lana’s primary question, how did this happen? Ken explanation sounds like a good one and will not require a line for VTS if we can ever get to GEMS.

– the negative numbers on media display occurred when Lana attempted to reupload a card or duplicate card. Sophia and Tab may be able to shed some light here, keeping in mind that the boogie man may me reading our mail. Do we know how this could occur?

=============================
NOTES
Sophia: present with the San Luis Obispo mysterious early tally that appeared on the Internet

Sophia: is the King County tech rep -- note the Ken Clark alter the audit log memo, talking about doing "end runs" around the voting system -- "King County is famous for it"

Tab Iredale has his name on much of the sensitive (read: questionable!) stuff

[BevHarris]

49. And urk! possibility of "unauthorised source"???

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Memory card checksum errors (was: 2000 November Election)
From: "Talbot Iredale" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:31:04 -0800
References: <[e-mail]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John,

Here is all the information I have about the 'negative' counts.

Only the presidential totals were incorrect. All the other races the sum of the votes + under votes + blank votes = sum of ballots cast.
The problem precinct had two memcory cards uploaded. The second one is the one I believe caused the problem. They were uploaded on the same port approx. 1 hour apart. As far as I know there should only have been one memory card uploaded. I asked you to check this out when the problem first occured but have not heard back as to whether this is true.

When the precinct was cleared and re-uploaded (only one memory card as far as I know) everything was fine.
Given that we transfer data in ascii form not binary and given the way the data was 'invalid' the error could not have occured during transmission. Therefore the error could only occur in one of four ways:

Corrupt memory card. This is the most likely explaination for the problem but since I know nothing about the 'second' memory card I have no ability to confirm the probability of this.

Invalid read from good memory card. This is unlikely since the candidates results for the race are not all read at the same time and the corruption was limited to a single race. There is a possiblilty that a section of the memory card was bad but since I do not know anything more about the 'second' memory card I cannot validate this.

Corruption of memory, whether on the host or Accu-Vote. Again this is unlikely due to the localization of the problem to a single race.
Invalid memory card (i.e. one that should not have been uploaded). There is always the possiblity that the 'second memory card' or 'second upload' came from an un-authorised source.

If this problem is to be properly answered we need to determine where the 'second' memory card is or whether it even exists. I do know that there were two uploads from two different memory cards (copy 0 (master) and copy 3).

Tab

[BevHarris]

50. Yumpin' yiminy! This keeps getting worse

RE: Memory card checksum errors (was: 2000 November Election)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Memory card checksum errors (was: 2000 November Election)
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:13:46 -0600
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <[e-mail]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] On Behalf Of Guy Lancaster
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 1:41 PM

My understanding is that the card was not corrupt after (or before) upload. They fixed the problem by clearing the precinct and re-uploading the same card. So neither of these explainations washes. That's not to say I have any idea what actually happened, its just not either of those.

The problem is its going to be very hard to collect enough data to really know what happened. The card isn't corrupt so we can't post-mortem it (its not mort). Guy if you can get the exact counter numbers that were uploaded into the races (not just president) perhaps you could guess the nature of the corruption at least, but if I had to bet the numbers were just garbage and you won't be able to tell.

About the only constructive suggestion I have is to insert a line in the AV upload code to check that candvotes + undervotes = votefor*timescounted. If it happens, punt. That would have at least prevented the embarrassment of negative votes, which is really what this is all about. Then John can go to Lana and tell her it has never happened before and that it will never happen again.

Ken

===========================

These people don't care about correct votes. They are unhappy because the vote total for Gore (-16,000) was so skewed that it embarrassed them!

[gristy]

52. OMFG

Criminy, Bev. What a find.

I got to tell you something, though. In high tech industries, this kind of banter between field support, sales people, and the factory goes on ALL the time. It is no surprise to me that it has been going on inside Diebold. Good job getting the crucial direct evidence of it. Drip....Drip...Drip..Drip.DRip!!!!

:bounce:

[Kelvin Mace]

54. It certainly does,

but up until now it never involved the destruction of our democracy.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[yowzayowzayowza]

64. Could that be the smell of...

oxidized potassium nitrate? WOW!!!

:kick:

[Junkdrawer]

66. Alternate explanation of negative votes...

GEMS allows negative numbers for vote totals. During the panic after Pappy Bush's call, negative numbers were force-fed into GEMS to get the idiot son over the top.

Unfortunately, a reporter saw the negative numbers on a media display. Later, the vote totals were adjusted to give the same results without negative totals.

The emails we read are Talbot Iredale's attempt to deflect attention back to a faulty memory card.

If I'm right, that means that massive adjustments were done all over the county/precinct to get the same results as the real results cooked with a negative number. And that means that a hand recount of the optical ballots would verify fraud.

[JetJaguar]

72. Maybe

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3A0AE5D6.9B210A64%40excite.com



------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Beetwasher
Subject: VOLUSIA CTY, FL, WHAT'S THE DEAL?
View: Complete Thread (11 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic, alt.politics, alt.politics.elections, alt.politics.gossip, alt.politics.democrats.d, alt.politics.media, alt.politics.usa.constitution
Date: 2000-11-09 09:43:11 PST


What is going on with the vote count in Volusia County, Florida?

There seem to be several "anomalies" in the vote totals that, perhaps, have innocent explanations. But it would be interesting to learn what those might be.

Look at this:

There are 10 candidates on the Florida presidential ballot: Bush, Gore,Nader, Browne, Buchanan, Harris, Phillips, Hagelin, Moorehead, and McReynolds.

According to the CBSNews.com county-by-county vote totals, there were
198,230 total votes cast for all candidates for president in Volusia
County.

However, there were only a total of 178,973 votes cast for all seven
senate candidates (the only other statewide contest on the ballot).

The 19,257 total vote difference appears to be unusually high and seems to be the largest difference among all counties in the state.

Here's more:

In the presidential balloting in Volusia County, Candidate James E. Harris garnered 9,888 votes out of his statewide total of 10,469. Candidate Howard Phillips got 2,927 votes in Volusia of his statewide total of 4,280. And Candidate Harry Browne received 3,211 Volusia votes, by far his best county showing in the state where he totaled 18,856.

Add up these three minor party candidates' votes in Volusia County and they total 16,026.

Now, remember the unusually high presidential-to-senate total vote difference of 19,257 in Volusia. The difference between that number and the 16,026 votes the three minor party candidates got is 3,231, or just about what the difference appears to be (on a percentage basis) in the other Florida counties between president and senate votes cast.

What's so unusual about Volusia County? Is it the home county of Harris, Browne and Phillips? Are these numbers just quirks? Is something else going on?

Just asking.
------------------------------------------------------



Is this the DU Beetwasher?


-----------------------------------------------------
edited for structure

[BevHarris]

77. I think you have something here

The "minus 16,000" votes is eerily similar to the unusual 16,000 votes that popped up for the other, minor party, presidential candidates. My brain is a bit fogged tonight but I need to bookmark this one for a further look.

[punpirate]

80. Okay...

... tinfoil time. Contextually, this article suggests another reason why there might have been a vote fluctuation:

http://www.arizonademocracy.com/html/overvote.html

The thrust of the argument in the above is that if Gore were winning Florida, the easiest way to change the results would be not to fiddle electronically with the results at the tally point, but to do it the old-fashioned way--meddle with punch cards. According to this, it had to occur well into the counting process, because the object was to "spoil" enough Gore votes by overpunching them to give Bush the lead.

Now, what is possible is that either through some desperation or lack of coordination, there were operatives in a number of places in Florida with a goal of throwing the election who acted independently and each tried to fix the vote in a way that became too obvious.

Maybe, too, the plan was for one operative only to throw in a calculated vote adjustment through the Diebold machines. Maybe that plan was a back-up in case simpler means failed, such as over-punching ballots, and someone panicked.

Regardless of the system used, the whole thrust of Bush's legal effort was to stop the counting of ballots--the less seen of them, the more likely that fraud would not be detected.

And, if there were ever a better example of the need for a paper record, Florida was it. Even a punch card, examined microscopically, would reveal if it had been punched by hand on a voting device and had also been punched by a different, automated, machine, as the above article suggests.

M'self, I think friends of the Bush Brothers went at this effort in every way they could think of.

Cheers.

[Junkdrawer]

88. Interesting. When editing through GEMS, the checksum must be zero..

so if I gave Gore -16,022, I would have to give somebody (or somebodies) +16,022. Later, if I removed the negative vote count directly in the Access database, but didn't adjust the minor candidate totals, I would get a surplus of 16,022. Proof of this hack may be as simple as comparing vote totals for all presidential candidates with the official turnout.

[Junkdrawer]

99. PS - Two themes...

1.) Vote suppression - all the strategies used in Florida, from preventing voters from getting to the polls, the punch card overvote-by-flicking-an-additional-chad trick, the butterfly ballot, and now possibly this, fit a pattern of suppressing Gore's votes while leaving idiot son's votes alone.

2.) If this was the hack used, then we have a crude election night hack followed by a tech support "fix". I wonder if there are more instances of Talbot jumping in to fix a questionable database...

[TruthIsAll]

118. Could this be the computer GLICH Dan Rather mentioned on election night?

When thousands of Gore votes mysteriously disappeared? I forget the county. Supposedly 10,000 or so votes went to the SOCIALIST candidate..

[bpilgrim]

85. "the boogie man may me reading our mail" - lol

are WE the 'boogie man'?

could be... :evilgrin:

wow this is some interesting stuff... has this been sumerized in any web article yet? anyone got a link? thanks :toast:

peace

[punpirate]

89. We weren't the boogie man then....

The email was written in January, 2001.

It was at that time operated by GES, well before Diebold assumed control of the company.

So, who would have been the bogeyman, then?

Here's a clue. You're writing messages in a private listserv, no one apart from a few friends and co-workers know you exist, and you're talking, every day, theoretically, about breaking the law on behalf of your employer. Who do you fear?

You're part of a publicly-held corporation, and that means annual reports and statements about your business and your business practices and your tax status.

Who do you fear? Your own corporation's ____________?

Cheers.

[bpilgrim]

91. little did they know...

it would be boogieMEN and WOMEN around the world :evilgrin:

it could be their own company but it could also be the feds since they where doing business with them i suppose but the important part is they knew what they were doing was WRONG and we got the goods on them.

:bounce:

peace

[punpirate]

96. Actually, I meant fill in the blank...

... with the one group that could have caused them trouble... the corporation's independent auditors... which I find most ironic, since they're the ones trying hard to avoid an audit trail in the voting process.

Cheers.

[bpilgrim]

104. that is not hard to believe if they got something to hide...

like INCOMPETENCE at least since they will be viewed as the responciple party.

btw: i know what you wanted me to do - and i said their own people - but i wanted to add to the possibilities.

:hi:

peace

[Kelvin Mace]

51. These are only Gore's totals....

more shennanigans with Gore's Florida totals.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[Kelvin Mace]

53. Hey, Bev!

This is important. Start a new thread about Gore's totals being tampered with in Seminole Co. Present at the scene, Sophie, a woman know for doing "end runs" around the database.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[Generic Other]

65. Not what they were saying on Nov. 16, 2000

"Officials in the fourth jurisdiction, Volusia County, finished their recount in time to meet a Tuesday deadline for reporting returns to the secretary of state."

http://quest.cjonline.com/stories/111600/gen_1116006909.shtml

[Romberry]

86. It 'gave Al Gore a minus 16022' when uploaded?

How does a precinct give "minus" votes?

My, the emperor's new clothes, they are so beautiful! What is that wonderfully sheer fabric they are made of again? (And shouldn't the emperor be wearing some undergarments?)

[Kelvin Mace]

56. Diebold admits it doesn't know jack about security

The topic being discussed was wireless transmission of precinct results to state election centers. Herron was (quite justifiably) leery of the idea.

"I think, though, that some serious thought should be put into whether this is really a very smart way of conducting an election. My first reservation is reliability. It would be an awfully expensive lesson to find that sun-spots on the day of election caused us report late. Second is cost. Wireless modems still seem to live in the $400-$600 range. Buying a piece of equipment like that just so that poll workers don't have to find a phone jack sounds questionable. Finally, is security. It is all fine and well to upload results over the internet, but we don't exactly have a lot of experience in internet security in this company, and government computers are crackers favorite targets."

Of course, security rates third in his concerns.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[shirlden]

57. This thread needs to stay on page 1

These are great reads, but take a lot of time. I just love playing "snoop".

:bounce:

[RainDog]

82. yep. so here's a kick n/t

.

[Zhade]

58. Has anyone sent this to Slashdot? I think they'd eat it up.

NT!

[BevHarris]

62. I just did. Hope they publish it, I agree the slashdotters would

have a ball with this. Bit sensitive, perhaps, for them to publish it but I gave it a try, including all the links.

[Wickster]

59. "We can do just about anything"

Bev - Great Catch! Love this one (I am just getting started, tho'):

RE: blank ballot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: blank ballot
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:14:01 -0700
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <[e-mail]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] On Behalf Of John McLaurin
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:10 PM

Have we ever seen an RCR,



Nope, this is a new one.

or do we have the ability,



Not currently, no.

County, is that the on a two sided ballot, it would be nice to reject a ballot that was not voted on one side or the other, presumably inserted by the ignorant, uninformed, or elderly voter, that only voted one side of the ballot.



Makes some sense.

Is this something we do, or can do?



We can do just about anything. This one would need a firmware change, and a new flag in GEMS.



Ken

[Generic Other]

68. It would be nice?

to screw the "ignorant, uninformed, or elderly voter"?

Snidely Whiplash has nothing on these folks. Would it also be nice to tie the poor old widow woman to the railroad tracks and steal the deed to her house?

This memo makes old Ken sound like a swell guy. Hope he lies in his own poop in a nursing home soon.

[Booberdawg]

69. jeeeezus!

[DEMActivist]

60. Nov. 2000 - GEMS 1.17.8 for RECOUNT ONLY

Re: GEMS-1-17-8

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: GEMS-1-17-8
From: "Dmitry Papushin" <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:44:47 -0600
References: <001e01c050a3$cd7c2350$906d0a40@greg>


Greg,

GEMS-1-17-8 is for AVTS recount purposes only.

Dmitry

[BevHarris]

61. And I say "HUH????"

Pardon me for being annoying, but I've also never seen any such vote software certified. Raising my hand: Isn't the purpose of a recount to RE-count -- why are they creating a whole new software for it?

Or is that related to what we saw in the source code about recounts: "First, get original total and save it over here...Then do recount...then replace recount with original total that we saved...something like that, as I recall.

[Eloriel]

63. Well, I have no idea where to look for it

But I thought 1.17.8 was what Georgia used -- GEMS. Maybe the Rob-Georgia or one of the Brit Williams interviews.

I'll go take a quick peak.

Eloriel

[Eloriel]

71. OT: Oldies but goodies

Well, I didn't find what I was looking for, but I did run across an email from Kara Sinkule (is she still working for the SoS??) which I found quite amusing. Just for kicks:

2. Hardcopy "print-outs" of each ballot cast on our system CAN be produced (they would print out similar to an opti-scan layout) in the event of a hand recount --- which meets HAVA requirements.

Her naivete is overwhelming.

Eloriel

[madfloridian]

73. Admit to wireless and/or modem access.

I thought they were not supposed to be accessible that way.

[Generic Other]

74. Here's one on that reveals what they really think of Democrats

To: "Global Sales" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: GEMS Name
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:13:38 -0800
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <005101c176bc$d1df8320$23d2fc9e@default>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For what it is worth, or if it helps any with the decision, it is "Global Election Management System". Global as in comprehensive, universal. Not Global as in property of GES.

That and DEMS is just a terrible name. Sound like Democrats. Sounds like DIMS. But hey I just write it I don't have to sell it.

I know, lets call it AccuVote-EMS. (snort)

Ken

[Old and In the Way]

76. Great thread....why aren't our candidates making a stink about this?

All 10 ought to at least agree to spend a few days speaking in concert about this concern. If they were all focused on the end to preserve voter integrity, wouldn't the message get out clearly? The bottom line is faith in our process and particularly, particularly after all the suprises going against the Democrats in 2002.

I found the threads on the printers quite interesting. Why don't they want to increase their revenue stream by adding printers? Wouldn't this also give them a safety factor in case they run into transmission problems or memory corruption and lost votes? Seems like a sensible and simple solution.

You can tell me a verification slip of who you voted for would be too time consuming or waste paper. They could be designed to be easily scanned and then you'd have a 3 way check...Touchscreen=optical scan = paper ticket.

[Generic Other]

75. Are they competing to be most incompetent? Or best cheaters?

Florida competition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: "Support" <[e-mail]>, "Susan Martin" <[e-mail]>, "Salestalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Florida competition
From: "Steve Ricke" <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:56:47 -0500
Cc: "Barney" <[e-mail]>, "Phil Wylie" <[e-mail]>
Importance: Normal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Some interesting items.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4071169.htm

http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/sunday/news_d34860ff343
c129a0067.html

Stephen Ricke
Diebold Election Systems
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

78. An interesting one: Corrupted Memory Cards

Corrupted Memory Cards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: "Global Support" <[e-mail]>, "Global Sales" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Corrupted Memory Cards
From: "Steve Knecht" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:12:06 -0800

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please report any corrupted memory cards to me from elections. I've had one in Santa Barbara tonight. I'm curious how many more we have. We are entering another cycle of elections without this fixed I guess.

Steve Knecht
Global Election Systems
415-893-9941 office 415-893-9951 fax
415-225-6591 cell

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

79. "We will be modeming in from all precincts"

Plumas County TS units modems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: "Support" <[e-mail]>, "Sales" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Plumas County TS units modems
From: "Tari Runyan" <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:57:06 -0700
Cc: "Dana LaTour" <[e-mail]>, "Frank Kaplan" <[e-mail]>, "Jeff Hintz" <[e-mail]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there special modems/pcmcia modem cards that need to be installed, configured etc to facilitate modem uploads from our new TS units?

We will be modeming in from all precincts in Plumas in March and I would like to be prepared and anticipate/head off any problems that could occur?

If there is special equipment needed will this be shipped with the new units or does it have to be ordered specially?

Also are there any special procedures involved?

Thanks
Tari

[mhr]

81. Kick For Exposure

eom

[TorchTheWitch]

87. kick

kicking again

[nolabels]

90. Still kicking :-)

:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

http://www.aceproject.org/main/english/ei/ei60.htm

Election Integrity: Historical Review
(snip)
The United Nations has also provided electoral assistance since its establishment in 1945. It created the Electoral Assistance Division in the UN Department of Political Affairs whose objectives are:


"to assist Member States in their efforts to hold credible and legitimate democratic elections in accordance with international recognized criteria established in universal and regional human rights instruments;"57 and

"to contribute to building the recipient country's institutional capacity to organize democratic elections that are genuine and periodic and have the full confidence of the contending parties and the electorate."58


The United Nations has provided a variety of electoral assistance including coordination and support of international observers, technical assistance, organization and conduct of an electoral process, and supervision and verification of an electoral process. Technical assistance, such as advice and assistance for accountable electoral management and revision of electoral laws and regulation, are provided to increase the capacity of a government to administer a free and fair election.
(snip)

[bpilgrim]

92. FYI: Search Engine Comming Soon and Canadian Mirror

I will post here when ready ;->

peace

[bpilgrim]

102. Search Engine Available Here ---- GlobalFreePress.com ----------- LINK

http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

It is still indexing but you can start searching now. It will hopefully make it easier for yall to investigate.

psst... pass the word :bounce:

peace

[bpilgrim]

130. MIRROR available here ------------------------------- LINK

http://new.globalfreepress.com/diebold

just in case... i will make a single archive later for easy DL and post link later.

peace

[Cocoa]

93. OMFG! Proof Diebold is innocent!!!!!!!!

Kidding about this being "proof" of anything, but this post and the others in this discussion of a criticism of DRE's suggest that the Diebold people are arguing their points in good faith.

The attitude represented by "here's a well grounded posting," referring to a serious critique of DRE's, increases Diebold's credibility imo. There are other such comments that show respect for the critics while at the same time disagreeing.

That quality is missing from the part of the activist side that argues its points by trashing those who disagree.

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200012/msg00014.html

Re: DRE systems can't be trusted???

* To: [e-mail]
* Subject: Re: DRE systems can't be trusted???
* From: Guy Lancaster <[e-mail]>
* Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:32:20 -0800
* Organization: Global Election Systems Inc.
* References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>

Here's a well grounded posting. Anyone care to argue his points?


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Seibel <[e-mail]>
> To: 'Lorrie Faith Cranor' <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:36 PM
> Subject: DRE Challenge/ Listen to Neuman and Mercuri
>
> I'm an election administrator. We run private elections. The kinds of
> elections that we run and their respective requirements run the gamut. I am
> personally involved in each one. We have probably run more elections in the
> past year than most state or county supervisors will run in a career. We
> use DRE systems, paper systems, Telephony based systems, and various
> combinations thereof. We are not beholden to any single technology or
> medium, so we evaluate each on its own merits without (unlike some other
> participants in this debate) pushing an agenda or product.
>
> As numerous people have opined, there is no perfect system. There are
> advantages and limitations inherent in each medium. In a nutshell, here are
> the limitations of the DRE as I have observed them.
>
> 1. There is nothing to audit.
> a. All you have when you get done with a DRE election is a record (however
> many copies or however detailed) in a database to audit. Regardless or
> whether or not you believe that there is "hidden code" or other nefarious
> goings on, it is self evident that, from the voter's perspective, there is
> scant proof of the fact that each vote counted mirrors the vote cast. It is
> a matter of perception/trust of the system, which must be earned at a much
> more basic level than the current rhetoric/debate addresses.
> 2. They are inefficient.
> a. When we have used a touch screen based systems, we find that under the
> best of circumstances, and even in relatively simple elections (2or 3
> offices), we can move a maximum of 30 voters/hour/unit through a touch
> screen system. For more complicated elections, it may move closer to 10
> voters/hr/unit. Whether you need to move a thousand or a million voters
> through a system in a single 10 or 12 hour period the number of voters per
> unit required is low (requires lots of units). Do the math! The throughput
> that you can attain is generally not high enough to justify the cost of the
> equipment for a single use every year or 2 years.
> 3. Many people can't deal with interactivity.
> a. It may come to a surprise to people in the geek community that there are
> significant numbers of people who are intimidated by computers and
> interactivity in general. This is particularly true (but not universally) of
> older people. No amount of training will pacify them. This leads to
> discouraging some people from voting, and/or significantly lengthens the
> transaction time of some voters, dragging down the efficiency even further.
>
> The bottom line is (as discussed in detail by P. Neuman, and R. Mercuri)
> that there is no perfect system. Which system proves to be the best one is
> largely a function of which priorities you place higher or lower on your
> personal election scale.


I think that we all agree that DRE auditing mechanisms that record each vote systems are artificial at best. They can perhaps be useful in tracking down some types of problems but if you can't trust the DRE system to start with, you can't trust any type of logging that isn't verified by the voter. And you can't have it verified by the voter without violating privacy (which of course applies to all voting systems).

Therefore you have to be able to trust the system.

-- Guy


edit: added bolding

[Cocoa]

94. Holy mother of crap!!! Ken Clark is NOT clueless!!!!!!

The bolded part catches Clark in the act being intellectually honest. He's partially contradicting a colleague's defense of DRE's, or at least putting a finer point on it.

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200012/msg00012.html

* To: <[e-mail]>
* Subject: RE: DRE systems can't be trusted???
* From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
* Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:31:35 -0600
* Importance: Normal
* In-reply-to: <[e-mail]>

> Actually this would be far harder to do than suggested here. Consider
> the many possible checks to catch just this kind of attack. The simplest
> is to compare the code that is used to a master copy. This can be done by
> computing hash values and/or by a bit-by-bit comparison. Thus, if the
> code changed, it would be easily caught.

It is not the code that is the problem. Electronic DRE sufferes from one
critical difference from optical scan or other paper based systems. Paper
is a write-once medium. Memory cards are read-write.

Ken

[Cocoa]

98. Jumping Jehosaphat! Guy Lancaster respects DRE criticisms!!!!!

You would think that a company who is deliberately undermining democracy, and whose defenses against critics are simply fraudulent, would be utterly defensive and dismissive of all criticisms.

But see the part in bold here. He almost sounds like someone talking about a complex matter in a reasonable way! :wtf: :scared:

And what I really don't get is why Guy is so understanding with Eva. Any self-respecting BFEE stooge would have just ordered her killed. Or at least dug up some dirt on her or something to trash her reputation. He didn't even express any negative feelings about her at all.

All he's doing is addressing the CONTENT of what she posted. What's up with that? :crazy:

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200012/msg00013.html

* To: [e-mail]
* Subject: Re: DRE systems can't be trusted???
* From: Guy Lancaster <[e-mail]>
* Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:34:40 -0800
* Organization: Global Election Systems Inc.
* References: <[e-mail]>

Ken Clark wrote:

>
> It is not the code that is the problem. Electronic DRE sufferes from one
> critical difference from optical scan or other paper based systems. Paper
> is a write-once medium. Memory cards are read-write.

So all doubts would be quelled by using a WORM (Write-Once, Read-Many) device to record votes? I don't think so.

People have concerns about black-box technologies. They are being asked to trust what they can't see. This is reasonable and must be addressed by having trusted experts review the system and expose its strengths and weaknesses. Eva's posting was claiming that it wasn't possible for any expert to do that.

Of course our dear friend Paul Craft has followed up with a good response:


> > Department of State Division of Elections, a
> long-time subscriber to this list. --LFC]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Craft, Paul <[e-mail]>
> To: 'Lorrie Faith Cranor' <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 9:13 AM
> Subject: RE: Waskell Response to Shamos' DRE Challenge
>
> I am so (darn) tired of hearing conspiracy theories about "hidden code". If
> you do a decent job of examining and testing systems, proper acceptance
> testing, maintain strict release control and maintain reasonable security
> over your equipment, you don't have to worry about "hidden code". If you
> fail to do all of these things, then you will have much bigger problems than
> "hidden code".
>
> Paul Craft
>

--- Guy

[PATRICK]

100. Degrees of culpability

Product loyalty- no implications seen oir worried about- little interest in elections as a citizen

Instructions to follow lousy paths and the "experts" are hired who love it. Duped and hired just for their Windows like experience in making Swiss Cheese buried in overdone code.

Overseers and managers who keep the status quo deficient. LIHOP. The visionary owners of the company and their tete a tetes with GOP mucky mucks.

The two kinds of MIHOP: reliably obedient engineers again doing questionable things during the actual elections after having done much of the same kind of activity in tests and primaries, political ops and hired hands actually controlling the fraud.

Not many can see where the WHOLE architecture(the complete voting process) is leading. There has to be quite a broad bunch though, even at the most consciously criminal level. Doesn't it seem the trick is to give real plausible deniability to the company and simply leave the doors wide open to knowledgeable outsiders to come in from several angles and abuse the deliberate mess? I just keep thinking of LaPore taking home vote cards. With some of the names approaching that "special" circle I think a good grand jury can leap to a vulnerable and large bunch of small fry who have been convinced
that there can be no evidence and plenty of protection.

This like the reverse of tax reform. Simplicity isn't fair and fairness is complex becomes for blackbox voting simplicity is fair and complexity cannot be.

Damn, I have to rewrite my editorial draft again with more references.

And yes, BEFORE the primaries are potentially ruined will someone clue in the candidates? The last exchange about Internet voting in Michigan betrayed perilous ignorance on all sides.

[Cocoa]

101. too abstract a response

Here we have gobs of posts of the people in their own words, and you revert back to an abstract hypothesis of what's going on.

e.g., how can you possibly know that they are not concerned as a citizen? Why don't you avail yourself of all the candid emails and post one that confirms this?

[Old and In the Way]

106. I agree Cocoa that I see no evidence of a conspiracy to throw

an election. But the potential is there. If this campaign to address the fundemental problem of no accountability with paperless ballots is successful, I really don't care how the case is constructed.

The only concern I have in the 2004 election is our ability to count votes. Unless we make this a focus issue supported by all the Democratic candidates, the touchscreen system with no paper trail will spoil the trust of the American voter and a national election that mirrors Georgia's unexpected results could become a basis for a civil war.

[Cocoa]

110. then you're a heretic, like me

because this thread is not about a potential for anything, this thread is presenting these memos as a smoking gun that crimes were committed. Fraud at least, but maybe even treason.

But I'm not sure what you're saying. If you don't care how the case is constructed, then you must be convinced there was a crime. Because if there was no crime, then all these people are being falsely accused, and you can't be ok with that can you?

But in general how can you not care how the case is constructed? If the case is constructed by throwing around wild hyperbole, and appealing to patriotism and other emotions, and ostracizing, slandering, and ridiculing dissenters, is it possible to conclude that the case may not have much substance?

[Old and In the Way]

155. I'm seeing a lot of smoke, but no fire yet, Cocoa.

Here's my problem-

Bush can't wait to get HAVA enacted. Why's that? We have no money for education, infrastructure, and other investments for this country...but this is a priority for Bush?

And the fact that the owners are big time Republicans/Christian fundementalists gives me cause for concern.

I don't like systems that don't give the voter any hard copy and local record of how he/she voted, period.

I don't like the way the 2002 elections went, given the pre-polling vs. actual results all went counter and in the Republican's favor. Georgia results are a major red flag, IMHO.

So if Bev and the other activists can get this issue to the forefront and at least make people understand that the POTENTIAL for rigging elections is enhanced with touchscreen/modem technology....I'm all for it.

I firmly believe we will win in 2004...no question. But if we can't trust the accounting methods on how the vote is tallied, I'm very concerned.

[bpilgrim]

103. until they FIX the known problems they will be suspect.

it is VERY dificult to get a corporation to change it's ways even if they aren't 'up to' ANYTHING other than making a BUCK.

:hi:

peace

[Cocoa]

105. that's a truism

Yes, corporations have been known to be interested in profits and they've been known to committ fraud and other crimes.

What does that truism have to do with these emails, or with what I posted?

[bpilgrim]

112. see 'boogie man' above

besides a lot of this stuff will be mundane stuff and i doubt we will find anything in here where they will actually come out and say they are trying to rig the election but we may be able to prove that they know that it is possible not to mention the audit problems.

this stuff can be used as leverage to bring about massive reform.

that is why i am excited and i suspect a lot of otherss are, too.

try the new search engine...
http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

makes it much easier to DIG ;->

psst... pass the word :bounce:

:hi:

peace

[Cocoa]

115. about the boogie man...

Back in July, there was a big build up to a story so damaging to the powers that be that it was compared to the Pentagon Papers, and people were in fear for their lives because of the danger of being assassinated.

Now two months after that huge story breaks, we have a huge mass of internal emails from that company, and THAT comment about the boogie man is supposed to mean something?

We have no idea what that comment means, it could mean anything, it could be an inside joke. At BEST it's a red flag, and I wouldn't even call it that.

But granted that it's a red flag, aren't we beyond the point where we're raising red flags? We've had so many smoking guns, what sense does it make to be raising red flags?

Are you guys back to square one, where you're still digging for stuff?

[bpilgrim]

116. still digging...

you got it. and it isn't just that one comment that implys they have something to hide it is the fact that they are aware that their system is not only NOT foolproof but it has numerous flaws and they broke the law by using unchecked code.

there are plenty of damming peices in here.

now that it is opened to the world it will enjoy the same benifit as open source sw since many eyeballs will be able to easily scrutinize it and bring to light even more interesting pieces of info.

and let's not forget the new SEARCH ENGINE...
http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

remember there are THOUSANDS of docs to go through and it will take time.

be paitent and pass the word :bounce:

:hi:

peace

[Occulus]

117. ...

"Yes, corporations have been known to be interested in profits "

Um, Cocoa, I don't know how old you are, but I'm beginning to suspect that you're very young and v-e-r-y naive. Let me spell it out for you:

The only reason, ever, for any for-profit corporation to exist is to make money. ALL other considerations are secondary.

Including the security of your vote and mine.

[Cocoa]

119. that's why I said it was a truism

I think the naivete is on the other side, on the people that think profit motive is identical to bad intent. Just like they think imperfection is identical to total uselessness.

The attitude you're expressing is the reason for the Diebold response about flying in airplanes. Did you know, airplanes are built and flown by corporations that only care about profits? Did you also know that airplane travel is not 100% safe? Do you fly in airplanes?

[bpilgrim]

120. it is MORE than just that...

you are acting like we just picked this company out of thin air and suspect them since they have a profit motive.

that is not the case.

they have fruadualently used software that was uninspected in a public election that ALONE warrants an investigation wouldn't you agree?

then their is the matter of their results not able to be audited reliably.

certainly these issues cncerns you as well. i understand and agree about the need to be civil but hey this is GD ;->

but seriously, i agree we should try to keep thinks toned down and just get the DAMMING FACTS.

have you checked out the search engine?
http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi
did you find anything else?

:hi:

peace

[Occulus]

122. You're still comparing

apples and oranges. When I get into a car, plane, train, or whatnot, I'm voluntarily assuming a known risk.

When we vote, there should be no assumed risk.

Profits motivated by unrestricted greed without restraint= bad intent, and the Diebold memos quite clearly illustrate the arrogance and dismissal by Diebold of very legit concerns 1) that they know about, 2) refuse to fix, regardless of a legal mandate to do so, and 3) have intentionally hidden from elected officials responsible for upholding the law.

Seems to me that you're a staunch supporter of corporate personhood. That puts your POV in the 'resist this' column in my book.

By the way- with every post, you sound more and more like a Diebold employee desperately trying to throw all of us off the track.

[Cocoa]

124. "there should be no assumed risk"

well, this is just impossible. If that's your position, then you're taking an unreasonable position.

"Unrestricted greed without restraint" I missed the memo that showed evidence of this. Are there any memos that show greed at all, much less unrestricted greed without restraint?

"Arrogance and dismissal of legit concerns." My three initial posts here show exactly the opposite, and I posted them for exactly that reason. Did you read them?

You're wrong about my support of corporate personhood and my employment at Diebold.

Actually I'm discussing this in a very obvious way, for any voter regardless of who they work for. The BBV people are making some claims, and I'm basically asking, "are the claims true?" I realize the preferred response is to believe everything that is claimed, and to get alarmed about it, but I think my response is better.

[Vitruvius]

159. But do they make their profit selling voting machines or from stolen

elections? "They" means the voting machine companies OR whoever owns or controls them.

If the BFEE or the like is behind this, their profits from stolen elections are so huge that they wouldn't notice it if their tame voting machine companies ran at a LOSS.

Vitruvius

P.S: In post 76, "Old and In the way" asks "Why don't they want to increase their revenue stream by adding printers?" to print paper hard copies of the votes? It's unlike any business to pass up an opportunity to make more money, e.g. by selling features or add-ons.

But if their real business is stealing elections (rather than selling voting machines), passing up the opportunity to sell printers makes perfect sense.

Selling printers is small potatos to the BFEE, Halliburton, the VRWC and the like. Siezing control of the multi-trillion-dollar US economy, seizing control of the US military (enabling them to sieze oil-rich countries like Iraq), and looting what they sieze -- that's where the real money is.

[BevHarris]

111. Flawed reasoning as usual.

An accountant produces thousands of innocent transactions for each illicit transaction used to embezzle. With 15,000 memos, if we pull out every one that shows non-nefarious writing, we'll be here a long time, because that's most of them.

What will remain at the bottom of the pile, though, is this:

- proof that they used uncertified software that no one had examined
- proof that they connect to the Internet
- proof that they have used cell phones to transfer vote data
- proof that they have no plausible explanation for Gore's minus 16,000 votes
- proof that they knew the system could easily be tampered with, and hoped to "skate by" certification by not mentioning it

this list could become equally long.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and 14,000 rights don't make 1,000 wrongs "right" either.

By the way, if these messages were on the open internal company message board, can you imagine what's in their private e-mails???

Perhaps a subpeona will show, though I'll bet their tech wizards are busily wiping out that evidence. (Wait -- what about all the previous employees and their laptops? hehehehe. Wait -- I have their phone numbers!)

[bpilgrim]

113. exactly

keep up the good fight bev :toast:

peace

[Cocoa]

114. all the things you're calling "proof"

aren't really proof. Calling these things proof is a huge flaw in your case.

DU is not a jury, and even if it were, this trial is being conducted without the defendants being allowed a defense.

Speaking of juries, have any lawsuits been filed, and won't all this public discussion queer any lawsuit?

[TruthIsAll]

123. Cocoa, give it up. No matter how much you try, we will continue

to fight for transparency in our elections.

That's what YOU would like to see, isn't it?

Why the hell are you soooo disruptive? Comment on the facts presented in the memos.

Dammit, stop trying to dioscourage the search for the TRUTH. You are either very naive or very cunning. Either way, you CAN'T STOP US!

[Cocoa]

126. I quoted extensively from the memos

all the responses I got sidestepped my evidence that detracts from the BBV hypothesis.

I don't see BBV as being the search for truth, I see it as spreading rumors around. But I'm not even really trying to discourage it, I'm just saying what I think about it and why, mostly because very few other people are pointing out the obvious.

[bpilgrim]

127. lol - there are over 14,000 memos...

you did not quote 'extensively' please.

most of it is boring and mundane anyways...

try searching for 'Boogie man' at http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

for just 1 example... or how bout 'Security', 'Crack', 'Hack', bug, etc and you will begin to see how many flaws there are to be concerned about.

peace

[Cocoa]

129. sorry it was boring

in a way tht was the point. Maybe they're not supervillains, maybe the're computer people.

About how many bugs reported, isn't more better? Doesn't more mean they take quality seriously? What would you think if they never discussed security problems?

[bpilgrim]

132. how would you know?

it's not like you read through over 14,000 memos, yet...

and just cause you are talking aabout something that is broke doesn't mean you vaule quality, i am in the software/network business and know that everybody talks about bugs and security but it does not mean that they have as high a priority as you or i might think appropriate... just think MS.

btw: dig you dig anything useful up yet with the new Search Engine?
http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

keep us posted :toast:

peace

[Cocoa]

134. I have it bookmarked

I've been browsing around the emails and I get pretty much the same impression. I haven't come across any that give a different impression.

I'm not going to post any more examples because no one has substantively responded to what I posted.

I'm in the software business too, and in my experience more bug reporting yields better quality. Very strong correlation, in my experience. The alternative is blowing defects off, for which there is an incentive for some people. Blowing defects off makes it much harder for anyone to be held accountable, since there's no evidence the defect was known.

The extreme of dysfunction would be for management to discourage discussion of defects unless forced to, especially via email that automatically documents itself. I've been in situations like that.

[bpilgrim]

135. good... keep us posted.

btw: your small couple posts didn't show much thats true but you gotta keep digging, remember all the interesting stuff bev found, so keep the faith.

and don't forget to use the search engine ;->
http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

peace

[Kelvin Mace]

136. Cocoa, please see me my separate thread on the issue

and see if you agree with my point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=379514

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[Kelvin Mace]

137. I disagree with this

I don't see BBV as being the search for truth, I see it as spreading rumors around.

The folks I am working with are only interested in the truth. If we don't stick to that, we are no better than Diebold, et al.

I can only speak for those I work with. Some folks see more sinister implications of the facts than others, but that is a matter of interpretation, which we have no control over.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org

[Zhade]

138. You clearly don't care about the truth.

El Paso however has no reason I am aware of to run the hacked release. Unlike Gaston, all machines in El Paso are early voting, so there is no reason that the database needed to be unset. If it has been unset, please explain when and why so we can make a determination on how to proceed. We can of course run the hacked version in El Paso; however, doing so without even why the election was unset is courting disaster.

(found at http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/199910/msg00101.html - that search engine bpilgrim pointed us to really helps!)

So, they can run the hacked version. Hacked, as in NOT LIKE THE ORIGINAL, which means even if the pre-hack version was certified, the hack WAS NOT. This violates federal law under HAVA.

And you STILL don't see the truth? Why are you so intent on avoiding it?

[preciousdove]

139. Anoka has been what ammounts to a beta test site for GEMS since 1997

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Minnesota Firmware
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:49:52 -0500
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <[e-mail]>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
I don't know the status of any certification though. Anybody?

I would be suprised if they have any serious cert requirements (but I
have been suprised before). The subject didn't come up when they asked
for 1.95 last year for their November elections, and Anoka has been what
ammounts to a beta test site for GEMS since 1997.

Dianne Teff would know best.

Ken

PC1.95d was released on March 15, 1998 specifically for
> Minnesota. I don't know the status of any certification
> though. Anybody?

Oops. Make that March 15, 1999. Hit a little time warp
there.

Guy
--
Guy Lancaster <[e-mail]>
Global Election Systems Inc., Vancouver, BC, Canada

[corarose]

95. Thank You!

:kick:

[T Bone]

97. Amazing, archive to cd somewhere

It is nice they are out there. No assurances they won't be scrubbed from that site? Sure would be nice if there was a way to get them archived to cd so they could be uploaded to various websites. I was just browsing through a few and found this from Novemeber of 2000 in Mahoning County Ohio. They were having troubles with printouts that involved districts where there were a large number of write-ins and they were talking 'presidential' race.

snip:>>
Okay, this is quite broken actually. Fix will be in next release; Jeff I will send you a 3.13.5.8 prerelease.
We are way past the point of no return for most our AVTS installations, so people need to be aware of this. GEMS upload works fine, but the "long" report on the poll book and ballot station has incorrect results for times counted, blank, and undervotes. Only work around is to not print the long report.
Ken

***********
Nice huh? the workaround for the problem is to print a shorter, incomplete report. In other words, the longest paper trail report is corrupt for some reason---so they conclude the best way to deal with it is to NOT PRINT IT.

[BevHarris]

107. WOW: THIS LINK IS GREAT FOR THE MEMOS

I wanted to call attention to the work of bpilgrim --

http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

enter any term and it is a FAST search engine for the memos. I entered "Ciber" and it instantly came up with all the memos that mention Ciber.

As John Wayne would say,

"Ya did a mighty fine job, pilgrim!"

Bev Harris

[bpilgrim]

109. thanks bev!

just tryin to make your important work a little easier. Thanks for pointing out the online content it is what really made it possible :toast:

btw: it's also good for looking up ver numbers, too ;->
on edit: it is still index all the docs, so every memo isn't in the database... yet. i will let you know when it is done.

peace

[bpilgrim]

121. Search Engine Indexer Has Finished - 14,229 docs are now fully loaded ;-)

http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

psst... pass the word :bounce:

peace

[TruthIsAll]

125. Bev, it is obvious all this technology is broken and/or fraudulent.

Let's go back to the 18th century. I mean it.

We need Paper Ballots. Hand Counted by two observers. Secured in safe lockboxes..Safer. Cheaper. More accurate. Simple. Transparent.

This whole Voting Machine business represents the epitome of corruption:
Money. Votes. Coup.

We are soooo close to exposing it. In fact, we already have.

Get after those guys on Sixty Minutes. Tell Mike Wallace this is not about smokers dying from cancer. This is about democracy dying from fraudulent, hackable, poorly designed, undocumented, Republican-sponsored voting machine hardware and software.

[althecat]

140. Most of the world is still in the 18th century Truthisall... it is normal

The lever based machines, ropes and pulleys, hanging chads and fundamentalist christian and defence company vote counting systems employed in the U.S. are pretty much a uniquely American phenomena.... (apart from a few client states and neighbours in central and south America that have been recently corrupted...)

[BevHarris]

128. Here's one from an employee who is disgusted

Found it by entering the term "vaporware" in bpilgrim's memo search engine at http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

I redacted his name, though you could find it easily enough by going to the memo.

Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:57:40 -0500

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It does not matter whether we get anything certified or not, if we can't even get the foundation of Global stable. This company is a mess! We should stop development on all new, and old products and concentrate on making them stable instead of showing vaporware. Selling a new account will only load more crap on an already over burdened entity.

Everyone is waiting for Diebold to come and save us. What do you think Diebold will say when they see what a mess everything is, or more to the point what Global has not shown them, or maybe it will not matter at that time, hmmm...

Every time I look at the support list there is another sales person or manager screaming we can't go forward without having to fix this or to fix that. You are taxing the development team beyond what they can handle. This is not there problem, it is yours.

Elections are not rocket science. Why is it so hard to get things right! I have never been at any other company that has been so miss managed. I see blame being put on anything that moves. Communication does not exist! All I here from upper management is “That’s fine, he or she will be removed”. Upper management seems to think they know what is going on. They are to caught up in to much politics, and to much self importance, to even realize that there are employees watching them, waiting for some direction... We have allot of bright people in Global, why is it so hard to get things right....

I just received a call from Ingrid, she says she is tired of getting calls from clients asking for help. No one at Global is giving them the time of day. Ingrid is the only name I will use in this conversation. I have had calls from other ex-employees stating the same thing.

We have a management team that is so redundant, it is pathetic, and yet we don't have enough employees to get the work done. Wake up! We keep loosing good people, and yet management does not see this, or more to the point, “just keep everything going, Diebold is coming and everything will be fine”. Bull!!

My views are my views only. If you wish to fire me for speaking the truth, bring it on... or fix this crap. The employees of this company are watching, waiting to see if you are the leaders that will keep them going, or the pathetic fools that will drive this company into the ground. I believe Global has great products, great ideas, great people, just get things right and we will be the best.



Take care all.

[BevHarris]

131. Read what this guy has to say in his resignation

Found it by entering the term "vaporware" in bpilgrim's memo search engine at http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

Title:
To: Global Election Systems
From: Brian Clubb
RE: Resignation

5 October 2001

For the past three years I have worked for Spectrum then Global. Over that time I have become increasingly concerned about the apparent lack of concern over the practice of writing contracts to provide products and services which do not exist and then attempting to build these items on an unreasonable timetable with no written plan, little to no time for testing, and minimal resources. It also seems to be an accepted practice to exaggerate our progress and functionality to our customers and ourselves then make excuses at delivery time when these products and services do not meet expectations. The pressure to meet these deadlines and deal with repeated calls from sales staff and customers trying to ascertain actual progress versus exaggerated reports has become intolerable. The resulting stress has had a very negative effect on me both mentally and physically.

As internal politics and mismanagement continue to divert attention and resources away from these issues, the problems become further and further entrenched. Since the acquisition of Spectrum by Global, none of the personal or workplace benefits which the employees of Spectrum were promised have yet been realized.

This, in addition to the above issues, leads me to conclude that management is not concerned for the employees. Either they do not value the contributions of the employees, or are incapable of fulfilling these promises. Thus, seeing no end to this troubling situation, I find no other option but to end my employment with the company effective immediately.


Signed,
Brian Clubb

(Signed and submitted via fax to HR 10/5/2001)

[Cocoa]

133. I can SO relate to that

good for Mr. Clubb, most people don't care that much. Most people just go along, just spend their time figuring out how not to get blamed for screw-ups. Mr. Clubb apparently wanted to try to prevent the screw-ups.

[althecat]

141. Just got back from ski trip.. !!!!!! WOW !!!!!

This is so cool.

Heros in Italy VERY BIG UPS...
Bpilgrim VERY BIG UPS....
all the people looking at the memos and posting their findings VERY BIG UPS...

History is undoubtedly being made here. A citizens investigation of major corporate malfeasance is being conducted online here at DU, in real time, for all the world to see...

It is truly amazing and everybody involved can be inordinately proud of themselves... yes... even Cocoa who has been kind enough - and thick skinned enough - to provide us all with someone to argue with.

Al

[Zhade]

142. Shadow race? What's that?

(searched for "hacked", memo at http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/bugtrack.w3archive/200203/msg00069.html)

Ballots not invalidated when changing controlling shadow race

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ballots not invalidated when changing controlling shadow race
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:16:03 -0800
Importance: Normal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On behalf of Don Biz and the good people of Anchorage. Changing the shadow race of a shadowed dependent does not force ballots to be regenerated. What this means is memory cards downloaded will count results into the “wrong” (ie, previous) controlling race. Because they are shadow races there is no way to tell just by looking at the ballot that they are acting on the wrong oval positions. Only a thorough L&A will show the problem.



We’ll fix this in GEMS 1.17.23 so that users are warned that the change will affect ballots, and clobber the ballots if they choose to proceed. Unfortunately the cure is almost worse than the disease. In Anchorage, they had two shadowed races which pointed at the incorrect shadow race. The problem was not caught until after ballots were printed. This meant that regenerating artwork was not an option, since it would have forced a change in card numbers for every card with those races. Development hacked the database to preserve as many existing cards as possible. It worked out okay in the wash as only 1 card running in 10 pcts need to be reprinted. This was pure luck – it could have been all of them with a different shadow configuration (like that used in California primaries).



There are a couple of important lessons here. First, be very careful when setting up races controlled by other races. You can’t tell by “proofing” the ballots that the AccuVote will count the same way a sentient being who knows how the controlling race works. It needs to be told the correct controlling race. Straight Party, Preference, and Recall races have the same issues.



With shadow race, you should always set up the database with headers that show the district or party that differentiates the shadow race. For split precincts, you can do this with the 1.18 @district macro, or attach a header to the shadowed race. At least then you can tell by looking at the ballot what district it is in, and have a fighting chance of identifying the mistake during proofing.



Ken


Response:


Re: Ballots not invalidated when changing controlling shadow race

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ballots not invalidated when changing controlling shadow race
From: "Steve Knecht" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:41:59 -0800
References: <000001c1d10c$d7b52430$2304a8c0@kclark>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about some new terminology for "shadow" and "shadowed". Maybe I am the only one that doesn't understand the difference. I know what one of them is, but not the other, and worse, I don't know which one I know.

[DEMActivist]

144. Shadow race definition....

First let me say I have no clue about the response...shadow/shadowed...but I can explain one of the concepts.

Basically, by voting one way, you are then directed to another, different ballot based on your response.

An easy example would be the Georgia flag race:

1. Question One - keep the current flag, yes or no?

If yes, end of ballot.

2. If no, Which flag to you wish to replace it with?
Options: A, B, C, etc....

So the question "Which replacement" becomes a shadow of the first question.

The funny thing is, Cathy Cox said Diebold told Georgia it would cost $5 million in additional programming to do this on the flag issue.

[Zhade]

143. Another memo: "Pima is going to use a hacked 1.11"

(http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200009/msg00106.html)


To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Central count doesn't stop for write-ins - Pima 1-11-2
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:51:06 -0500
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pima is going to use a hacked 1.11 for their upcomming election for this, as they have in the past. There is now in 1.17.4 a new checkbox under reject settings to stop central count on writeins.

Ken

From: Tyler Links
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 10:25 AM

Pima County, AZ has noticed that central count doesn’t stop when a ballot with a write-in vote is put through. Has anyone else noticed this behavior? Pima is running 1.11.2, but it could be happening in other releases.



For what it’s worth, if we were to develop an upgrade, Pima needs it before their public central count L&A on Tuesday, September 5. Their election is Tuesday, September 12, and they have some 20 certified write-in candidates.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Follow-up:



RE: Central count doesn't stop for write-ins - Pima 1-11-2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Central count doesn't stop for write-ins - Pima 1-11-2
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:53:38 -0500
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <[e-mail]>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry -- braino. Make that under "Accu-Vote Settings".

Ken

[Zhade]

145. "In Seattle we used 35 modem lines..."

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/199902/msg00011.html


Fwd: Wireless transmission

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: [e-mail]
Subject: Fwd: Wireless transmission
From: [e-mail]
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:06:26 EST

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent to Ken, resending to support

--- Begin Message ---
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Wireless transmission
From: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:13:53 EST
Barry,

I'd revisit the issue of "managing" modems. This seems like a red herring to me. In Seattle we used 35 modem lines on a rollover. Once the lines were installed and modems hooked up there was literally nothing else we had to do. We were able to xfer about 400 polling locations with an average of 5-6 precincts each and a large 14" ballot. Personally, I think wireless will not work as well as our standard technology, and that there would be alot more aggravation due to weather, shadowing of signals, etc. After the debacle in Hawaii and Dallas, does ESS still have alot of credibility in Minnesota?

Here's a sample article.

<snipped, see memo for included article>

[DEMActivist]

146. Mark Crispin Miller puts it in his blog!

http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/

Once the bloggers pick this up, it's all over. The fat lady is singing.

[althecat]

147. Broken link in MCM's blog... someone should ask him to fix...

Unfortunately his link has an exta "/" at the end of the URL...And it is broken...

The correct URL is...

http://www.sunrise.it/s/lists/support.w3archive/200101/msg00069.html

That said. The fat lady is definitely singing.... I have just sent this memo off to a reporter working on this issue. As MCM points out... we here have Diebold admitting an actual case of possible election hacking.

Repeating for emphasis... this is not the BBV crowd making wild allegations about possible election fraud it is Diebold Election System's chief programmer speculating that a very blatant piece of election fraud may have taken place.

al

[DEMActivist]

148. It's fixed

Link in Mark's blog works fine now.

[DWright]

149. Woo Hoo MCM!!!

Great news! I've also sent this to Atrios at Eschaton.

[DEMActivist]

150. How about Josh Marshall

at Talking Points?

He always ignores me.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com

Anyone want to try him? Maybe include bpilgrim's search engine and suggest he mention 15,000 internal Diebold memos from 1999 through 2003 are available ?

[WaterDog]

151. Really amazing

.
Kick

:kick: :kick: :kick:

The fat lady definitely is singing
:nopity:

[gully]

152. Bev, why cant we sue Diebold?

Doctors get sued for malpractice regardless of 'intent.' This is malpractice at the very least. :shrug:

[DEMActivist]

153. Because we need an attorney

And none have stepped up to the plate to take the case.

We've tried. We've begged. We've pled.

So far, none are interested. Perhaps this newly released evidence will encourage someone to step up.

[gully]

154. Damn. What about a DU attorney?

I wonder if there are any?

[Andy_Stephenson]

156. Information on simultaneously touching 2 positions....

on the ballot station

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Information on simultaneously touching 2 positions on the ballot station
From: "Larry Dix" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:44:46 -0500
Importance: Normal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This posting is to clear up some confusion that has been reported in regards to simultaneously touching 2 positions on the ballot station and having the vote assigned to another candidate.



I am told that this has been a long known issue, but it was reported by sales and support while demonstrating at Travis County, Texas. It is not a bug or something that can be fixed by software, but rather an issue of how a resistive touch screen operates, regardless of the manufacturer or vendor. This is a procedural issue that needs to be explained to the support and sales staff. By definition, a resistive touch screen when touched in 2 locations will calculate the resistance and find a median point.



Here is the scenario:

You have a ballot with a race of 5 candidates that allows you to vote for one. Two candidates are touched simultaneously and the vote is registered for the candidate between the 2 that were touched. This is the normal action for a resistive touch panel, but can cause concern. This is something that IT people like to point out and say that our system is flawed. Wrong, all resistive touch screens react in this manner. This will happen on a R6 running CE, I can duplicate on an R5 under NT and a R4 under Windows 98, but the OS has nothing to do with this issue.



I am sure this will be making the rounds with our competitors. Hart will say that is why they have the wheel, ES&S will say that is why they have a stylus. It would be quite interesting if we could try this on a competitors screen, given the opportunity.



A good item to be tried at IACREOT.







Larry J. Dix

Vice President of Operations

Global Election Systems

[BevHarris]

157. Nice catch, GB&C. Hey, in relation to your "I got the certs" thread

I noticed one document in there that refers to the ITA "suggesting" the NASED number. I think this is a very odd way to do things, don't you? I mean, according to Diebold internal documents I have, Wyle and Ciber have their own number which they attach to their report, so why do they need to "suggest" a number to NASED?

This is important because it seems to be muddying the waters as to what is certified. Once Diebold knows what the NASED number is supposed to be, they can start putting it on things.

The memos clearly show that they are NOT ALLOWED to install software based on a letter from Wyle or Ciber alone -- they MUST get the NASED authorization. But for some reason, Wyle and Ciber are coming up with the NASED number.

That, and we have obvious discrepancies between what the NASED list says is certified and what Georgia said it certified.

GB&C, if you haven't seen it already, this is a GREAT resource put together by bpilgrim -- it does an almost instantaneous search of the memos. Try it now in case they get a cease and desist put on Italy's web site.

http://new.globalfreepress.com/mnogosearch/search.cgi

You just enter any word into the search box and it finds all the relevant memos. I entered "NASED" and got a lot of information. You might also try entering Ciber, or Wyle, or Nichols, or Metamor.

By the way, we could probably find all the uncertified installations quickly by entering GEMS 1.14 or GEMS 1.15 or GEMS 1.16, couldn't we?

[Andy_Stephenson]

162. Un-setting for election

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Un-setting for election
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:09:40 -0500
Cc: <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Importance: Normal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I figured it would be worth 5 minutes to explain to those people not yet trained in GEMS what set for election does. People who have run GEMS elections before might want to skip this mail.

Set for election puts locks on the user interface to prevent any tampering with the database that can change the contents of memory cards (and now TS floppy disks). If you un set for election, you need to reprogram your memory cards. The Poll Book and GEMS software has checks in place to prevent memory cards from being uploaded who's contents could have changed.

Gaston created two memory cards and then unset because (as I understand it) they did not have time to enter in the server IP address and phone numbers of the polling place vote centers. This are only two well-known memory cards with the wrong version, so this should be manageable. We can create a version of GEMS and the Poll Book that does not perform these checks for them, as a one shot only hack. This special Poll Book should only be used for the two special memory cards, and the GEMS only for this election.

El Paso however has no reason I am aware of to run the hacked release. Unlike Gaston, all machines in El Paso are early voting, so there is no reason that the database needed to be unset. If it has been unset, please explain when and why so we can make a determination on how to proceed. We can of course run the hacked version in El Paso; however, doing so without even why the election was unset is courting disaster.

Ken
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dogs can't tell its not bacon.

[MrGrippey]

163. The Italy files already gone?

When I click the links to the Italy site, I get a "404 - File Not Found" error message.

Please tell me that someone had the foresight to save copies of the archive?

Thanks

[Eloriel]

158. Good for another go, methinks

:kick:

Eloriel

[TorchTheWitch]

160. I thought Bev had an attorney?

Besides, this really needs to go to a Senator or someone with real influence.

Kennedy would really pop some neck veins if he saw this now... he's already got smoke coming out of his ears over Bush&Co.

[frank frankly]

161. such wonderful work!

way to go Bev and everybody else!

[eridani]

164. Black box voting site down?

12:20AM 9/23/03

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/index.htm gives a generic thank you for choosing AIT, and the forum URL http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi gives file not found.

Whassup with that?

[althecat]

165. Try this one..

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

and I will find another one that DemA posted...