do you think punch cards are accurate?(Poll) needs freeping

[mitchtv]

http://www.kesq.com/
66 % say yes, 34% no

[uptohere]

1. results say yes, kinda

they are marginally more effective than anything else. I believe that optical was worst.

[gristy]

3. No, optical is the most accurate

From the Voting Technology Project http://www.vote.caltech.edu/Reports/index.html click on "Fast Facts":

Equipment
- There are five types of voting equipment: hand-counted paper,
mechanical lever machines, punch card ballots, optically scanned
paper, and electronic voting machines. (Page 18)

- Hand-counted and optically scanned paper have had the lowest rates of
unmarked, uncounted, and spoiled ballots in presidential, Senate and
governor elections over the last 12 years. (Page 21)

- Punch cards have the highest rate of unmarked, uncounted, and spoiled
ballots over the last four presidential elections. (Page 21)

[DBoon]

2. Wrong question

Accuracy is one issue, but accountability is another.

A computer touch screen is inherently more accurate that punch cards, as there is no ambiguity about the choice. Problem is without a paper trail, there is no accountability.

[sangha]

4. True, but misses the point

This about the CA recall, which was delayed on the basis that punch cards are not as accurate. IOW, they are trying to undo the delay by getting support for the recall supporters arguments that punch cards are accurate.

[mitchtv]

7. thank you Sangha

we will need every vote in LA county(punch card) while large Freeper counties like SD, Orange, Riverside have cut over to T/S ballots with less tha 1/2% error. The punch ballots have from 2% to 4% error rate, from what I've heard

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

8. Wouldn't the errors balance out?

I'm guessing that the number of "wrong" votes one way would be balanced by roughly the same amount the other way.

Or is there a reason the errors would all tend to be for one side?

[sangha]

9. No, not in districts that lean one way or the other

If the district were split 50% Dem - 50% Repuke, that would be true.

[Evanstondem]

14. The punch cards are used in Democratic areas in California

This means that most of the errors will hurt the Democrats.

[quilp]

5. The problem with touch screens is you need so many of them.

Since they have to be used one voter at a time. What looked a very efficient system is the optical one used by Maryland. The voters had access to the voting form which could be filled out a number of tables, and then fed in what looked like dozens of fax machines. It looked simple and could cope with a lot of people at once. But I understand they are getting rid of them for touch screens to meet the new "standards".

[gristy]

6. With the encouragement of the electronic voting machine industry,

they are getting rid of them for touch screens to meet the new "standards".

many states and counties were bamboozled into believing that the new "standards" (federal HAVA legislation) required touch screen machines for each voter. They do not. They are not required for any voter.

The anti-BBV effort is fighting that misperception, among others.

And you are correct, a big problem/expense of the touch-screen machines is that you need one for every voter. No more standing in a cubicle filling in circles with a $.10 pencil.

[uptohere]

11. touch screens were proven less accurate than punch cards

apparantly there is ambiguity and more of it.

Despite it all, dangling chads are not a big problem. Operator error is the issue and people can screw up anything. At least they're used to punch cards. That probably explains the difference.

[mitchtv]

10. 58 to 42 % we're gaining

:kick:

[Clark Can WIN]

12. Do we "freep" polls?

Maybe we should DU (doo) poles? Or, how about this? Let's kick the polls!

[ComerPerro]

15. We should not do anything like this

It makes us no better than the scum at FR.

[auburnlib]

13. punch cards are more accurate

Optical scanners have an error rate of 3.3%
Touch screen systems have an error rate of 3.0%
Data Vote systems have an error rate of 3.2%
Punch Cards? They have an error rate of 2.5%

I got these figures from a website but it failed to give a link. The study that released these figures was done by MIT and Cal Poly.

[ComerPerro]

16. I would trust punch cards over paperless voting machines

Owned by republican companies.

The problem with punchcards is that they can say whatever anyone reading them wants them to say. We saw this in Florida. "Vote for Gore: no good. Its, uh, not, punched enough. Yeah..."