Sorry, guys. I can't trust Clark.

[Enraged American]

I can't trust this guy who has no voting record to prove jack shit about what he's saying. He is not pro-revision of NAFTA. He's another centrist asshole like Clinton who says he's for the working man, but is really as corporate as the repricks when it comes down to campaign financing.

Kucinich is someone who sacrificed his career as mayor of Cleveland for his socialist ideals. And Gephardt is also an acceptable Democrat who is financed almost exclusively by unions. These two have credibility. Clark has none. He just says whatever his advisors tell him. No one's telling you what he'll do once elected since he has no voting background.

I would vote for Clark over Bush, and he is a step above Bob "Patriot Act/Kill Syrians" Graham and Joe "I don't even pretend I have a balanced foreign policy plan" Lieberman. But my support in the primaries will only go to someone who stands up for the American people.

[Fight_n_back]

1. You must be hell

on first dates.

[southern democrat]

3. You can support anyone you please and I respect you for it.

But please respect my high opinion of Bill Clinton.Clinton's policies helped many poor people,women,minorities,small businesses and the rest of the world.

[Fight_n_back]

4. I don't think

you meant to reply to me...

[Mairead]

11. Consider...

The direction in which wealth moved -- upwards -- did not change during Clinton's time. His policies had basically the same net effect as Reagan's and Bush I's: concentration of wealth. All he did was slow it down a bit.

[RC]

22. It's all he can get

:evilgrin:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. "Centrist Asshole Like Clinton"

He was the first Democrat to be elected president for two full terms since FDR...


He looks like a prince compared to the clown currently residing in the White House....

[Enraged American]

6. There's no denying that.

But come on, including Mexico to NAFTA was the nail in the coffin of the American industrial workers.

[wuushew]

9. There is more to the world in than the Mexican half of NAFTA

NAFTA has nothing to do the outsourcing of manufacturing to parts of Asia which would have happened with or without NAFTA or Bill Clinton taking a stand on it one way or another. And although NAFTA clearly has many problems it has not even been fully implemented yet, hold off on praise or damnation until more data is available. The whole problem of the cheap labor spiral can be addressed by other methods besides protectionism.

[Darranar]

26. Ah...

I guess those 1 million Iraqi civilians didn't die.

Evidence that Clinton was a centrist asshole

[Kahuna]

5. New poll. Clark is new frontrunner and does best against smirk..

http://www.msnbc.com/news/969441.asp

[KoKo]

13. Ahh! those months on CNN gave him BIG NAME recognition...that's alll!

Remember, most Democrats don't know who's running yet. But, they remember Wesley was that General "guy" talking about the war on CNN when they tuned in. If Christiane Ammanpour was running as a Dem she would probably beat Bush in a poll at this point!

[janx]

14. But he just entered the race two days ago. ??

I find this very hard to believe--and I like Clark.

Nowhere in the article did I find the results of the poll. There was a link to an online poll and a confusing rendition of the results of the Newsweek poll, but...nothing else.

[GOPFighter]

7. Okay, I hear you.

And I agree with a lot of say. Clark excites me because he is probably Bush's worst nightmare as an opponent. He will crush Bush in any Presidential debate. Still, I have a nagging suspicion that Clinton and the DLC are using Clark to insure the Democratic nominee is a moderate centrist (read Republican-lite) and to stop Dean's steamroller momentum. I'm still totally undecided as to I will support in the upcoming primaries.

[jonnyblitz]

12. I completely agree with everything in your post.

I knew the minute he announced he would jump to the top in popularity. The 'establishment" sure thinks he is safe. No rocking of the boat, status quo maintained etc..

[janx]

15. I get that feeling too. And it's a little insulting that the power brokers

use fear that way--they are expecting a knee-jerk reaction because Clark is a general.

We've been ducking Chimpy's fear mongering tactics, and now it's as if we're getting them from the DLC.

[carpetbagger]

8. Clark is pro-revision of NAFTA.

If you can find the transcripts to an NPR interview he gave recently, he said as much. He said the arrangements need to be tweaked to provide for a fair playing field, specifically mentioning labor and environmental issues, but talking generally about free trade vs. fair trade as well.

[Enraged American]

10. Yeah, yeah.

To protect the textile industries. So what, Bush passed steel tariffs. And Secretary Snow gave some "fair playing field" garbage rhetoric.

Doesn't mean jack.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

16. Clinton was a real asshole

Peace, prosperity. Yeah, those things are overrated. If Clark is another Clinton, I will be overjoyed.

[sspiderjohn]

17. Who else are we SURE can defeat bush? No one. Only Clark.

He's our only hope.

[FireHeart]

18. Yeah and at least he

doesn't have to stuff socks down his flight suit to make it look like he's got balls.

Clark in 2004!

[bloom]

19. "He's our only hope." .....good grief......

If that is the case - I fear for my country.

(Which I do anyway - but sheesh).

[janx]

20. One question (and I like Clark):

WHY?

[LynneSin]

21. So you would rather trust George W. Bush

Geez even I'm not that :crazy:

If you can't trust Clark, instead of bitching about in here, then get involved and help get a candidate you can support nominated in the primaries.

Then after the nomination - if it's Clark, heck that's still 2000% better than Bush

[Enraged American]

23. Uh no.

I'm not going to suck the DLC's prick.

[IranianDemocrat]

29. Good then lets get 4 more years of Bush.

I love it when Kucinich extremists accuse other candidates of being DLC with no evidence.

I really don't care because you definitely don't represent the majority of americans OR even democrats.

[einsteins stein]

35. This is a straw man argument

"You don't support my candidate? Why do you want another 4 years of Bush?"

Do you understand why it is a strawman? Instead of addresing the point, which is that the original poster does not trust Clark, you make up a new argument, supposing that the poster wants Bush in office for another four years. This way, you sidestep Clark's perceived trust level, at least for the poster in question, and you attack the poster as a Bush supporter. Is that valid?

Well, with that argument you are much more likely to create a flame war, is that what you are looking for?

Is your candidate the ONLY candidate that can represent the Dems? Not a chance, especially when we have not had ONE SINGLE primary.

Let the people vote for themselves, let the people support whom they wish, and try not to create stawmen.

[einsteins stein]

25. What is wrong with bitching about politics in the GD forum?

Isn't that one of the purposes of such a forum?

Have you never, in you more than 1000 posts, bitched about anything, or anyone?

Are you not bitching even now?

[einsteins stein]

28. And why is it just a choice of Clark or Bush for you?

We haven't had a SINGLE primary. Enraged American clearly stated he would vote Clark over Bush. Did you read the post, or just the title?

I liked Clark more when he wasn't a candidate than I do now that he is, but I still like the man. However, I question his timing, I question his political experience, and I question his reasons for jumping in the race at all.

I think we had sufficient experience on the political plate being offered. Clark stated (something to the effect) that he felt that the errors of the Bush admin created a call for leadership today, yet he hasn't explained how he will be any more able to lead than any of the current candidates. What Clark seemed to be saying was that he listened to the voices of others who encouraged him to run.

IMO, Clark was being handled before he agreed to run, and will be handled now that he is in. Certainly, this makes me wonder if Clark will continue to be handled if he actually wins. Clark is a great unknown for me, and though I like a little under-dog, outsider style populism, in my candidate, I get the feeling that Clark is being packaged, like a "pop-up add" of a candidate, with a platform based on what appears to be my voting trends. Well, I don't like cookies on my hard drive, and I don't like cookies in my brain, either.

Still, for the moment, I refuse to either support or condemn Clark's campaign. Let's just see what happens, shall we? Let's also feel free to bitch all we want NOW, as long as we pull together once the general election begins.

[oasis]

24. America needs more "assholes" like Clinton.

[auburnlib]

27. clark

I heard that Clark believes that America was founded on the principle of progressive taxation. If that is true then I can't trust him either.

[Cornus]

30. Progressive taxation...

...is probably one of the main reasons why you SHOULD trust him. Do you also agree with all of the tax cuts that * provided for himself and all his rich friends. This is tax regression at its worst and one of the main reasons why we need someone like Wesley Clark to roll back these cuts and reinstate a progressive tax structure.

[auburnlib]

33. what I believe

I believe that people who work hard and earn money should be able to keep what they earn. I believe that those who want to live off of the income of others are greedy and should not be helped. I believe that the way the government spends and collects taxes is inherently wrong. How many people here wanted the government to spend their money on a war with Iraq? How many people their tax dollars supporting the patriot act? Conversly, how many people want their tax dollars supporting people who don't work and only want to live off of the government? I do not believe in "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." I believe in freedom for all and a limited government that supports and protects this freedom. George Bush has not done this but Clark will not do it either.

[Darranar]

34. So you're a libertarian?

Come on. Some people work as hard as others, but get half the money. Is that fair?

[auburnlib]

36. no.

That scenario isn't fair but that is the risk that is taken if one wants to truly be free. Simply put, being free does not mean being fair. I to take a risk by supporting this view but I also want to be free.

[Darranar]

38. So what you're saying...

is that freedom is more important than justice.

I respect your opinion, even though I strongly disagree. Of course, i disagree with Bush* far more. I'd strongly prefer being in a Libertarian nation like the one you speak of them being in a police state like what is now being created...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. It Was A Republican Theodore Roosevelt

who proposed the progressive income tax....

I don't believe taxes should be confiscatory but I have no problem with a 40% tax rate for the highest earners....

[Pepperbelly]

31. why?

What is it specifically that you find fault with in that notion?

[oasis]

32. Do you trust any of the Democratic candidates?

[Enraged American]

39. Kucnich. n/t