Fascinating Sociopaths

[undeterred]

Last night I watched CBS "48 Hours" which told the story of Christian Longo, a man who coldly murdered his wife and three children, left the country, and assumed the identity of a former New York Times reporter.

A good looking, charming, intelligent man, by all accounts. In Mexico he made friends, pretended to be working on a story about Mayan ruins, and found a new girlfriend. When the police caught up with him and he was imprisoned, he was contacted by the man whose identity he had assumed, and they developed a friendship.

In court he testified that his wife had killed the two older children, and that he, in a fit of rage, had killed his wife and their infant. He tried to elicit sympathy from the jury, but he was convicted on four counts of murder. He has life in prison, but 20 years to appeal.

The story parallels that of Scott Peterson, a man who was able to charm women easily and create the appearance of success, but who was really a sociopath with the incapacity to feel anything. Or Mark Hacking, whose entire life was a pretense of success, but turned into a deadly rage when it was uncovered.

I know its a stretch, but I couldn't help but think how common this story is our society, and how "normal" it feels. Do we breed sociopaths and elect them to office? There is such a lack of empathy for others in some of our leaders, its truly pathological. And such a rage erupts when they are challenged about it...

[bryant69]

1. It is a stretch

I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of them weren't sociopaths, but I doubt most of them are - I think they have constructed a world-view that excuses what they do.

All morality towards others is only intended for people of your tribe. The more moral among us see all humanity as part of our tribe (in my opinion). In the Bush worldview Muslims, Arabs, and possibly liberals aren't part of their tribe, and so the standard morality doesn't apply to them (or us).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[TahitiNut]

6. All sociopaths have "enabling beliefs" ... even Son of Sam.

It gets to be a question of "How many angels fit on the head of a pin?" to attempt an assessment of the degree of falsehood/mythology inherent in such beliefs. While such an assessment might be pragmatic in formulating treatments, it does not negate the diagnosis, imho.

I see less and less difference (in kind, not degree) between "anti-socialism," "anti-social," and "sociopathic."

[4morewars]

2. "Bush on the Couch"

by Justin A. Frank

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/sim-explorer/explore-items/-/0060736704/0/101/1/none/purchase/ref%3Dpd%5Fsxp%5Fr0/103-1238563-9095856

http://hnn.us/articles/7106.html

http://www.rense.com/general58/bcouch.htm

[paula777]

15. That HNN article is very insightful. I knew there was something wrong

with * but I didn't know exactly WHAT it was. The article really explains WHY he is the way he is.

[lectrobyte]

22. Second that. I'd suggest everyone take a few minutes and read

that article. A quick excerpt:

This particular son is driven by the need to retaliate – against his father and against a world full of enemies. He does so in a variety of ways – though the underlying motives are the same. He tells Bob Woodward that he needn’t consult his father before invading Iraq because he consults a stronger higher father; he regularly introduces Vice President Cheney as the greatest vice president in history, without mentioning that his father was VP for eight years; he dismantles international coalitions once valued by his father; he practices what his father called “voodoo economics” by implementing massive tax cuts for the rich, maintaining that deficit spending will revive the economy; and at the Republican Convention in New York, he doesn’t make a place for his own father – an actual ex-president – to speak. Each event taken on its face value is but an incident. When they are linked together they reveal a distinct pattern.

[undeterred]

26. In most people you can see shadows of the family history that shaped

them, but with * its really quite stark. It is amazing to think that a man whose father was vice president for 8 years and president for 4 never speaks to him about the job, and doesn't even seem to respect him.

[48pan]

3. It is indeed a stretch, but...

nutty people are everywhere, politicians included. All you have to do is meet the city councilors in my town. What a bunch of idiots!

[salinen]

4. Delay

Santorum
J.D. Hayworth
Frist
Bolton

[IrateCitizen]

5. Successful business executives exhibit near-sociopathic tendencies...

I read a piece on it recently written by a psychiatrist. Successful business executives tend to exhibit narcissistic behavior, a complete lack of empathy and concern for others, and notions of self-aggrandizement in just about everything they do. Essentially, the dividing line between "success" and "sociopath" seems to be the extreme to which that behavior is taken. But by and large, the kinds of behavior that make people successful in the world of big business tend to mirror those that cause others to become sociopaths. Most of these people are incredibly charming, prone to fits of extreme rage when things don't go their way, chronic adulterers when in "committed" relationships, and completely uncaring of who they have to step on to accumulate wealth and power.

Seeing as how there are such strong ties and parallels between the big business community and the political realm, it stands to reason that a good many people who get elected to political office -- from both sides of the aisle -- exhibit sociopathic tendencies as well.

[BiggJawn]

18. And what happens to these successful sociopaths?

In Indiana, we send them to the Statehouse, where they argue without end about Gay Marriage and Daylight Wasting Time.

[Protagoras]

23. See The Corporation

We have thousands of legal entities now that fit the bill of Sociopathic to a tee.

We reward them with huge profits, and create cultural myths about their god given superiority to all other forms of business.

We remove all sense of "responsibility" from what they do, and then encourage them to grab as much for themself as possible with the only restriction being "try not to get caught".

Then ask yourself...what kind of real person is likely to succeed in a system with those traits?

[TreasonousBastard]

7. I don't think we "breed" sociopaths...

any more than any other society, but we don't seem to identify and deal with them until it's too late.

We don't have local extended families any more, and communities are more often than not communities of strangers. This means that few notice the signs that that nice person over there may not be what he or she pretends to be.

Not that it was necessarily any better in the past, and history is well footnoted with sociopaths, but it may be easier for many of them to get away with it now. In the old days, they had to move a lot more or face some rough justice.

[undergroundpanther]

9. I think our kind society helps create them

and It makes them"leaders"

____________________________________________________________________

Some people are more emotionally equipped to handle freedom than others are. People emotionally equipped to handle freedom don't have a compulsion to lie, they don't get off on physically or verbally abusing people, they don't abuse people 's trust either. They don't intimidate, humiliate or belittle other people to force them to be silent. They don't act like greedy pigs at other's expense.


http://www.unknownnews.net/a061312-1.html

Sociopaths are great for the war industry
http://www.unknownnews.net/031208a-up.html

And child abuse keeps us controllable as adults

http://www.psychohistory.com/


And Sociopaths are moere common than you think

http://www.bookbrowse.com/reviews/index.cfm?book_number=1530

[undergroundpanther]

10. One more good link

http://www.bullyonline.org/index.htm

[MN ChimpH8R]

14. American society

also rewards them to the highest possible degree, which is doubly frightening. Since the Reagan era, there has been a constant drumbeat of "look out for number one and throw everyone else under the train." This has been so completely internalized by so many people that it has become the credo of all large business. Students, esp in business schools, are not exposed to ethics or critical thinking. It's all about self-advancement (damn the cost to anyone else) and "me, me, me, more for me, never enough for me."

This nastiness goes back at least a generation. Laissez faire capitalism is the finest training ground in the world for anti-social and sociopathic behavior.

:scared:

[Cleita]

30. Or, their families were pretty much in on the psychopathic

behavior like the Caesar emperors of Rome, or the Medici and Borgia families of Renaissance Italy. And, anyone who has read "The History of the Franks", by Gregory of Tours will shake their heads at the length of barbaric, sociopathic behavior the aristocratic families of that time were capable of, even the women. Wagner places his Ring trilogy in this era.

[Mizmoon]

8. Hey a police detective was just arrested in my town

they guy gets paid $100,000 per year(we pay our cops well, no?) but blew it all to scam credit card companies for $60,000 over the course of four years.

People have their own reasons for their crimes and they usually think they are justified.

[applegrove]

11. This is the reason I support psychological testing for all kids. I'm sorry

but catching one of these puppies when they are kids - may allow for treatment in the future and at least - a tight leash to make them & make them less free to continuously victimize the people who cross their paths.

[NoSheep]

17. Problem is, who gets to say who is a sociopath and who is not?

We used to rely on the medical establishment for that ( and even then, people like Francis Farmer were lobotomized for being "hard to handle")...now with the fascists in charge, laws could be made that would label gay children, or liberal children, those with progressive parents, those who get caught smoking pot, etc as Sociopaths. You cannot support testing for kids in a country where you can't trust the government. Please rethink this.

[undeterred]

19. I doubt seriously that personality disorders are 'testable' in children

I think that a personality disorder develops over time, and by a child being exposed to parents and role models that have unhealthy personalities.
I think that a screening might pick up depression or things of that nature. But it is scary to put the schools or govt in charge of this.

[applegrove]

21. They can test now with MRIs. They can also give pills to the suckers

to change some bad behavior. Many sociopaths are sexually inadequate. Why not give them Viagra so that much of the anger will dissipate?

I don't know exactly what should be done. But really - if we can put a man on the moon we can focus on future issues kids may have and treat them for it.

Sociopathy is a diagnosis. Why they treat many kids for behavior problems right now as it is - and often - there is no hope.

[noonwitch]

27. Psychological testing wouldn't really sort them out

Plus, it would start labelling kids with all sorts of potential disorders. The MMPI (among other tests) isn't infallible, contrary to what my mom's dumbass, retired psychologist boyfriend thinks. Although, he gave her one as a "getting to know you excercise", ethical bastard that he is.

I would hate to see some kid who is reacting to abuse with behavior that appears sociopathic to teachers and school people labelled a sociopath at age 10, when it could be just a temporary behavioral problem.

A brilliant sociopath can fake it, anyways, even a very young one.

I worked with a delinquent once who was labelled special ed, tested in the low 80s on the Weschler. After he screwed up big time, he was sent to a different unit at the reformatory and was retested by a better shrink. He tested 128. I asked him why he was faking being stupid (he'd been in special education since he was 7) and he said "special ed is easy". He fooled the testers into thinking he was borderline retarded as opposed to being the sociopath that he truly was. He was a brutally violent sex offender at 13. None of the tests given to him indicated he had this potential.

[applegrove]

29. Oh I agree that a test shouldn't be a be all. But you cannot just sit

by and do nothing. This is the age of the brain. They can do brain scans. They can test. We cannot ignore these new tools. And there are other illnesses or propensities that should be nailed in the bud. Like some kids who get strep throat and are genetically so inclined can become obsessive compulsive overnight. And there is great treatment for them.

There is also a bacterial connection to illnesses (of all types - not just the mind). So shouldn't families be made aware of their genes. You know. Instead of letting cycles continue. Family/genetic counseling goes on. So shouldn't family psychological counseling go on?

We know so much more than we did. You cannot just ignore all this.

[trekbiker]

12. Bush may be a sociopath..

just look at his reactions to events like the Tsunami. Or his record in Texas with executions. Or his attitude towards the loss of our military personnel or the thousands of Iraqi civilians. I dont believe he has a "conscience" in the normal sense which would make him a "Sociopath" to some degree.

A former friend of mine was a sociopath. We were drinking buddies for many years. He was good looking, very charming, the ladies loved him until they got to know him. At first I thought he was simply a narcissist and very self centered. But things happened over time starting with the suicide of one of his girlfriends that convinced me he was in fact a sociopath. His reaction, the phony emotion, his antics at her funeral were sickening. But I remained a "drinking buddy" because he was interesting and entertaining in a sick sort of way. I had to be careful to keep him at a distance and under my terms though. His anger when I would deflect his manipulations was also interesting. He had an incredible ability to restructure and distort reality to suit his view. Nothing was ever his fault. I ended the "friendship" after the 2004 election when his rabid neocon rantings became too much to take. I should also note that he was a big fan of Rush (another sociopath no doubt). I wonder what the percentage of sociopath's is amoung the neocons or Dittoheads or Freepers.. Probably pretty high.

[undeterred]

13. I think narcissism is VERY common in successful American men

and while its unpleasant to be involved with or work for a narcissist, its usually not lethal. What's scary to me are these men who show no outward signs of violence or anger and then suddenly they kill without remorse, and it turns out that they've been planning for it for a long time. And sociopaths who kill their wives and lie about it are, like serial killers, middle or upper class white males. Its psychological, not sociological.

A narcissist thinks that just being in their presence is a reward. The sociopath often goes overboard with displays of attention- spending a lot of money on a woman while courting her. Sadly, women don't see through this even when alarm bells are going off.

If I realized that a friend of mine was a sociopath, I'd back away, very, very slowly. :scared: :scared:

[Eloriel]

16. Uh, plenty common among UNsuccessful American men too

Common among men, period. Of course, there are different levels and varieties. It's a continuum scale:

Garden Variety Narcissism ----------------------------------------------Full Blown Sociopathology

[BiggJawn]

20. Not just Men.

I've known plenty of unsuccessful AND successful women who didn't have all the fries in THEIR Happy Meals, either.

Me? I'm just your "Garden Variety" withdrawn anti-social. Just leave me the fuck alone, and we'll have a great time together....

[MountainLaurel]

24. New book on just that subject

The Sociopath Next Door

Haven't read it yet, so I can't vouch for it.

[gulliver]

25. Republicanism itself is a sociopath.

It's a "Megazord" composite of little sociopaths connected ass-to-lips. There is some neutral tissue in there consisting of moderates and well-meaning-but-ignorant true conservatives. But the brain, skeleton, musculature, and connective tissue is all "look out for number one", "don't care if I have to bend the truth" sociopath.

The fundies are sociopaths too. God is just their own reflection to them.

[undeterred]

28. I don't know if I'll go that far

but the lack of conscience and empathy is striking. During the show I watched last night they kept showing pictures of these three beautiful children. If he wanted out he could have simply left or divorced his wife, but instead he strangled them each with his bare hands, lied about it, made himself out to be the victim, and never showed remorse for it.

Those of us who have been around DU or listened to Air America Radio have followed internet links to pictures of the massacre at Fallujah and seen stories about what is really happening to civilians in Iraq because of American military action there. I think being able to put these things out of one's mind or refuse to see them or simply deny that they exist- is a kind of moral sickness that a lot of Republicans suffer from.