Deep Throat tinfoilers: Please take a breather from your paranoia.

[BurtWorm]

Just for a day or two. Let it sink in that Felt probably is Deep Throat (as he, Woodstein and Bradlee say he is) before you start spinning out reasons why he isn't Deep Throat. I don't mind you confusing yourselves, but it's annoying having you setting right out to confuse everyone else.

There is no good reason to disblieve that Felt is Deep Throat. He has been a prime suspect for many, many years. It may disappoint some of you that Deep Throat is not someone more well-known. But disappointment is really not a good reason to reject reality.

[Oreo]

1. Woodward and Burnstein

I think that's who you meant to type

[BurtWorm]

5. Bradlee called them Woodstein, and I was taking his shortcut.

[theboss]

7. That was Bradlee's nickname for them

Watch the movie sometime.

[asthmaticeog]

2. "But disappointment is really not a good reason to reject reality."

Truer words were never spoken. I should get a TATTOO of that sentence, BurtWorm.

[On the Road]

3. I Never Thought it Would be a Prominent Person

Felt does not surprise me in the least. And the Nixon-Hoover background makes it all the more believable.

[Walt Starr]

4. He could have been a lot better known

but then, he'd never have been Deep Throat if he had been Hoover's successor.

[impeachthescoundrel]

6. It made my whole week

to find out who he is. As a 16-17 year old at the time I was on cloud nine every day it went on. The only paranoia I feel is that the press will be further stifled. Please give me some thoughts about it.

[BurtWorm]

13. That was a shining moment in American history

when the Congress--and Felt--did their jobs and cleaned out the WH of the filth that occupied it. I was 12-13 at the time, and when the hearings were on (on the networks! in the daytime!) and I was able to watch them, I did. They were fascinating.

It's possible that seeing Felt made into a hero might inspire whistle blowers inside the government. I'm not getting my hopes up about the impact it will have on the media or Congress.

[Spazito]

8. I certainly see no reason to doubt it....

he certainly fits in all aspects, imo.

[KittyWampus]

40. Except There Info An FBI Agent Wouldn't Have. Dean Said That On Olbemann

last night, and it seems significant.

Perhaps someone else passed info on to Felt.

Strange how little I personally care about who it is or is not.

[lenidog]

9. It ironic isn't it for three decades the tinfoilers have been fighting

and scrapping over their pet theories who Deep Throat was. Now that they know exactly who it is, they are fighting and scrapping over how its impossible for it to be him.

[bluedog]

10. I hope this plays for weeks!

you know whats pissing off the GOP party with this coming out don't you?

It brings back fresh the corruption that the GOP party has caused in the past and is now causing........right back into the minds of the AMERICAN people just how low the Republican party can be....

and isn't Nixons' son-in-law trying to run against Clinton in NY?...........Oh memories.......anything NIXON will split the GOP party!

[whistle]

11. Nixon and his White House mafia suspected W. Mark Felt right...

...from the beginning of the Watergate leaks and republican operatives have engaged in a harassment campaign of Mark Felt and his family ever since. Had Felt come out from deep cover and admitted that he was Deep Throat, his life would have been zero, as far as republicans were concerned.

Henry Kissinger has been quoted as saying, "...that even paranoids have real enemies". Die-hard republicans will never forgive Mark Felt for what he did as an FBI whistle-blower and I suspect that the only thing which blocked 100% retaliation against Mark Felt before now, was the uncertainty that he was indeed who he now openly claims he is.

Given that he seems to be suffering from senile dementia and can't remember any details of his Deep Throat encounters with Bob Woodward or even the Watergate era, I suppose there may still be room for doubt. Hey may not really be the notorious Deep Throat after all and might be just another patsy!

[theboss]

12. So why would Woodward say that he is Deep Throat?

That's where the "patsy" theory falls apart.

[whistle]

18. You may not have noticed, by Bob Woodward sold out to MSM

...when he gave up real journalism for writing best seller books. Sorry, I don't give Woodward much credibility about anything he has to say. His book "Plan of Attack" was just such a composit of soft ball journalism about the Bush II administration.

<snip>
The Condensed Bob Woodward
Slate reads Plan of Attack so you don't have to.
By Bryan Curtis
Posted Wednesday, April 21, 2004, at 2:51 PM PT

Want to read Bob Woodward's new book, Plan of Attack, without plowing through all 467 gossip-soaked pages? We can help! Slate has taken Woodward's tome and reduced it to a point-by-point executive summary. Grab a copy from the nearest bookstore and read along.

<more>
<snip> http://slate.msn.com/id/2099277

[theboss]

26. Fine...then why would Bradlee sell out?

Bradlee knew who Deep Throat was from the beginning.

[whistle]

37. I don't think Bradlee knew, not even Bernstein knew the true identity

...of Deep Throat because neither of those individuals had any personal direct contact with the Deep Throat source. Only Bob Woodward knew through his contacts and if Ben Bradlee and Carl Bernstein eventually learned of Deep Throat's identity it was second hand from Bob Woodward.

[theboss]

38. Bradlee knew the name in 1974.

From Bradlee's biography:

"The quality of Deep Throat's information was such that I had accepted Woodward's desire to identify him to me only by job, experience, access and expertise. That amazes me now, given the high stakes. I don't see how I settled for that, and I would not settle for that now. But the information and the guidance he was giving Woodward were never wrong, never. And it was only after Nixon's resignation, and after Woodward and Bernstein's second book, "The Final Days," that I felt the need for Deep Throat's name. I got it one spring day during lunch break on a bench in McPherson Square. I have never told a soul, not even Katharine Graham, or Don Graham, who succeeded his mother as publisher in 1979. They have never asked me. I have never commented, in any way, on any name suggested to me. The fact that his identity has remained secret all these years is mystifying, and truly extraordinary. Some doubting Thomases have pointed out that I only knew who Woodward told me Deep Throat was. To be sure. But that was good enough for me then. And now."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/stories/bradlee2.htm

So, Woodward cooked up this scheme in the 70s.

[Henny Penny]

47. "So, Woodward cooked up this scheme in the 70s. "

He may simply have done what he was asked to do in order to protect his source(s).

[H2O Man]

14. Are there really any

threads that say that? I have looked around, but not found them. I do see where some people question the possibility of a composite. John Dean has been asking questions in that vein. Of course, Liddy has been questioning it as well, and hinting that Dean played a role.

There seems to be no reason to doubt that Felt was, at very least, the core figure known as Deep Throat. But people should question every aspect of it. They should read every book possible, such as "All the President's Men," and the transcripts of the White House tapes. There is no reason to believe that the whole story is being told. Anyone who accepts what is presented on the mainstream media as being the absolute truth is a fool.

[BurtWorm]

15. And no one is arguing that anyone "accept what is presented on the MSM

as the absolute truth." But there are some people who can't accept anything as true if it comes to them via the media. Disregarding something because of where it comes from is no more logical than accepting everything because of where it comes from.

[H2O Man]

17. I was asking where

these threads are? Certainly I agree that people should neither believe nor disbelieve any claim of fact being made anywhere without proof. The WH tapes indicated Felt was a prime suspect. Every serious student of Watergate had him on at very least the short list of suspects. But the past 24 hours have not wiped away all questions .... in fact, the recent events will hopefully open up more questioning. That's a good thing.

[BurtWorm]

23. I agree, it will be a good thing if Watergate is revisited.

I think that is a natural result of Felt's coming out.

There is a thread I responded to this morning that questioned whether Felt was taking a fall for someone. I've seen this being asked in at least one other thread. I can't think of one good reason why Felt, whose information to Woodward made the whole Nixonian house of cards fall, would now suddenly be taking a fall for somebody else. Taking a fall? Does this mean that Deep Throat was *guilty* of some crime? That's what the freepers and Pat Buchanan are saying. Why would DUers think blowing the whistle on corruption at the highest levels of political power was a crime?

People seem to be looking for ways to complicate the simple fact of Felt's being Deep Throat before it has even sunk in. Okay, so his motives may not have been pure. Who cares? The result was pure!

[H2O Man]

29. Oh. Missed that.

Likely better I did.

Was he guilty of a crime, as a blubbery, boiling mad Patrick Buchanan insists? Sure. Of course he was. Chances are a bit less than zero that he'll be charged with anything. But the tapes make clear that at the time, some were weighing the option of going after him. The obvious result kept that in check.

Did he take the fall for anyone? Again, less than zero chance. In fact, just the opposite.

The good questions, in my opinion, include those such as was he alone Deep Throat? Where did he know Woodward from pre-Watergate? Why did he provide the information to the reporters?

[BurtWorm]

31. Yes, I looked at Debs' thread, and those are good questions.

Did you read the VF piece? Woodward is an appalling character in it--though I don't think the author meant him to be one. He seems to enjoy playing cloak-and-dagger. That's evident from AtPM. But he's a spy who gets driven around in a limo by a chauffeur.

Why did Felt provide the info to the reporters? Wasn't he trying to get Nixon's hands off the FBI? Was it because he was combatting the corruption of an imperial president or because he was protecting Hoover's filth? Who knows? At least Nixon got it.

[H2O Man]

32. Felt is a complex character.

I'm not comfortable with calling him an "American hero," as a few have done. Certainly, they are as entitled to their opinion as I am mine. But I think that Felt and Woodward are not very attractive figures up close.

Still, many aspects of this are fascinating. The part about Felt wanting to be director, and being upset that Nixon brought in an "outsider," has to strike everyone who has worked in any agency, or any office, as likely to be in part true. "Office politics" is office politics, no matter if you are in some small city agency, or a national agency.

Will we ever know? Of course not. Woodward is not a person to be fully trusted. Felt's family have an agenda; it could not be otherwise. And Felt himself has lied when he was at his peak; as an old and feeble man, he simply can not tell much of the story.

I find it most interesting to look for patterns. And there seem to be a lot of fellows involved in the deal who were not only involved in intelligence work, but were involved in a certain area that isn't all that common.

Perhaps the strangest thing is watching the republicans embrace Nixon. Baloney. In his day, the republicans turned on him once he crossed a certain line. It smacks of George W. Bush's interest in naming a stadium after Robert Kennedy, or visiting king's grave.

[BurtWorm]

33. Republicans seem to think of the presidency as a sacred office.

:puke:

(Excuse me.)

The most intriguing aspect of the story I've read so far: Felt's daughter Joan dropped out and lived on a commune around the time of Watergate. According the VF piece, he worried that she was going to join the Weather Underground. He equated her countercultural excursion with joining the WU. How did this effect his work, I wonder.

It's a strange story.

[H2O Man]

34. Reminds me of Kim Agnew.

She got interested in the environment and things Indian. One time, Abbie Hoffman as an aside said he had "fucked Kim Agnew." The FBI had to decide how to tell the VP. Shortly after they did, the VP publicly said nasty mean things about Abbie for about a week. The story can be found in "Soon to be a Major Motion Picture."

[Elidor]

41. I agree. Felt had his own agenda.

I've always been amazed by people who regarded Deep Throat as a hero. Even a casual read of All the President's Men should show that Throat had his own agenda. It's not uncommon for people to do the right thing for reasons that are less than altruistic.

I believed that Throat was Fred Fielding, based on the journalism program that combed through all the records. My father believed it was Al Haig, based on the book Silent Coup, by Kolodny and some other guy.

But I'm content to believe that Felt is the real Throat. It's difficult to imagine any pressing need for any of these people to lie about it at this point. Man, I've waited decades to learn who it was. Kind of a letdown, after all this time. I'll have to re-read Presiden't Men and Silent Coup and the web page by that college journalism program and see if I can make all the pieces fit together with Felt as the central character.

[H2O Man]

42. It's interesting to read

"All the President's Men" now. Obviously, I'm doing it for exactly the purpose you mention. Even with Felt as the Deep Throat character, there are some things that don't seem to fit. On page 177, Bernstein is talking to an FBI agent who is involved in the investigation; he tells Carl, "We did not miss much .... we know that 90% of your information comes from Bureau files. You either read them or someone reads them to you over the phone." While not "proof" that Deep Throat is 90% Felt, and some from other sources that are mentioned, one wonders.

The same agent had to review the FBI files in a search for information that Bernstein had thought was in their files. Bernstein had been "encouraged" the agent was telling him about Bureau file information showing up in the Post stories: "He and Woodward were not always sure their information was the same as the Bureau's, despite the general opinion that it was their source." (pages 175-6)

Even in regard to Deep Throat, Woodward notes that their "friendship ...was genuine, not cultivated. Long before Watergate, they had spent many evenings talking about Washington, the government, power." Then he describes someone troubled by the Nixon administration's destruction of numerous agencies. He refers to a "switchblade mentality" on the part of administration officials who tried to utterly destroy those who attempted to keep agencies independent from political influence. This is clearly Felt.

What follows: "There was little bitterness on his part. Woodward sensed the resignation of a man whose fight had been worn out on too many battles." (pg 130)

So it is not the bitter back-stabber that Pat Buchanan describes, nor the patriot with purely selfless reasons that some wish for. Rather, a complex man, who should be judged objectively.

[BurtWorm]

44. Does Felt appear as himself in the book?

I can't remember. It would be odd if he didn't turn up there as himself, given his position at the FBI.

[H2O Man]

45. I don't think so.

I hadn't read it in years, and am now half way through. I haven't found any mention of Felt yet.

[BurtWorm]

46. What about the other "suspects?"

Is Haig in there, for instance? (just curious.)

[Solly Mack]

16. The word 'Cointelpro' keep going through your mind too?

[whistle]

19. 'Cointelpro' ? What is that exactly......

[H2O Man]

21. Counter Intelligence Program

initiated by J. Edgar Hoover in the 1960s and 70s, with specific targets including civil rights and anti-war groups.

[Solly Mack]

24. also, W. Mark Felt was part of CoIntelpro and was convicted of

crimes involving CoIntelpro

[H2O Man]

20. There was a thread

on GD started by EVDebs that asked some interesting questions. I thought it was the most interesting thread on the Felt issue. I had put a number of direct quotes from "All the President's Men" on it that I think are worthy of consideration.

[Solly Mack]

22. Thanks! Missed it but will now go in search of it.

[smartvoter]

25. I was flamed for pointing out in another thread that if we turn everything

into conspiracies we look like loons and it dilutes our messages when they are important.

Nonetheless, everyone has the right to write about whatever they like...

[BurtWorm]

28. Not all conspiracy theories are loony.

But some are red herrings and swamps of bad information.

H20 Man's suggestion that Felt and Woodward may have had a deeper relationship than just newshound and source is interesting and worth looking into. The suggestion that Felt is a fall guy for someone else, on the other hand, doesn't make any sense.

[Strawman]

27. there's only one explanation

Poppy Bush and his daddy Prescott used some secret Nazi mind control techniques to program Mark Felt into doing what he did. Elvis knew about it all and Barbara Bush ordered him killed. It's the only logical conclusion :sarcasm:

[H2O Man]

30. If you play

Elvis' smash hit "Hey Jude" backwards, you'll hear him say just that.

[NoPasaran]

35. And as part of the conspiracy

The actor Dick York, playing the character Darrin on "Bewitched" was replaced by Dick Sargent. Think about it. Dick York. Dick Sargent. Dick Nixon. Coincidence? I think not...

[dancingme]

36. Faux News poll - hero or disgrace to the FBI

vote!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158276,00.html#poll

[CornField]

39. Is this aluminum chapeau territory?

I do believe Felt is Deep Throat, but I don't believe the timing of his admission to be based only on his own health concerns.

This administration (many members of whom have close ties to the Nixon administration) has been making many aggressive moves toward the press. Within the past few months, more and more whisperings have been heard about using unnamed or confidential sources, even when the information provided by that source is double-checked independently.

The latest mess with Newsweek has had the White House speaking directly of confidential sources and demeaning the press for using them (while also demanding that sources brought forth by the White House to push their own agenda be kept as confidential sources).

Without Deep Throat, Nixon and his cronies would have gotten away with it. Woodward and Bernstein were young enough that Felt was able to pull their string and lead them along. (The ethics of their relationship with Felt was/is questionable.) But, when push comes to shove, Deep Throat was the most notable confidential source in recent history.

I think Felt came forth now because he can see the pushings of the current administration. I think he came forward as a reminder to both the press and the White House.

[BurtWorm]

49. I would like to believe that was one of his motives.

The express motive is money. It's why they didn't wait for Woodward to give the greenlight, because Woodward was too slow to give it.

I am hoping that Felt's admission will click with people in the administration who have witnessed some things they wish they hadn't seen.

[H2O Man]

43. Woodward is on Imus this morning ....

Imus is expressing interest in how the young Navy officer, who specialized in communications, delivered messages to Felt. Now ain't that something?

[Henny Penny]

48. New information on an important matter has reached the public

domain, and it is not unreasonable to test its validity, particularly in the current climate.