Were liberals more rebellious in the 1960s?

[Eric J in MN]

Was there anything done in the 1960s we should be doing today?

[all.of.me]

1. eatin' more LSD?

i think i'm getting too old for that. ;)

[ElkHunter]

4. In the 1960's, because of the Vietnam war...

...there were plenty of us who did not call ourselves "liberals." In fact, many of us believed that liberalism - especially the cold war variety - had sold out. Most activists I knew back then used various names to describe their politics: progressive, radical, socialist, or even anarchist. But few that I knew then claimed the label of liberal.

Frankly, I didn't start using the word liberal to describe myself until just a few years ago when it became a dirty word on the right.

[Warpy]

12. "Love me, I'm a Liberal" by Phil Ochs

pretty much summed up how a lot of us felt about liberals back then. We knew they'd sold out on a lot of things. We were right, since a lot of those very same Cold War liberals turned around and voted for Nixon when they were offended by the coverage the 1968 riots got. They voted for Reagan to get tax cuts. Neither man could have won without them.

[htuttle]

15. "The problem with liberals is that they dull a lot of sharp knives"

I think Russell Means said that.

[Neecy]

14. yes, I don't recall the liberal label either

Most groups, such as the Weather Underground Organization, were considered leftist, not liberal.

Does anyone remember the Days of Rage?

[ElkHunter]

17. Sure, I remember...

In October 1969 the Weatherman faction of SDS decided to take the streets of Chicago to "bring the war home." I even remember some of the Weatherman songs: I'm Dreaming of a White Riot; Deck the Pigs Out on the Pavement; and We All Live in a Weather Machine.

I wasn't there but a bud of mine was.

[Neecy]

19. I wasn't there, either

But my family lived in Chicago at the time, and even though I was only 9 years old when it happened it made quite an impression on me.

Chicago back then was an interesting flashpoint - I also remember the '68 convention very well. Maybe Chicago in the late 1960's radicalized me - I hope so!

[Shoeempress]

2. Holy crap yes. Colleges actually shut down for protests for months.

Protests were HUGE, and the police frequently were very violent, yet the protests continued. You have heard of Kent State(4 dead in Ohio), Chicago Democratic Convention (Daley's storm troopers), I mean the level of commitment was unbelievable.

[ElkHunter]

25. Most people don't recall...

...that following Kent State there were big demonstrations all across the nation. Many colleges and universities simply closed their doors for the remainder of the school year and didn't reopen until fall.

When Kent happened I was passing through Portland, Oregon on my way to Berkeley. I took part in the demonstrations at Portland State and in downtown Portland. I can tell you that it was intense - people were so angry that it felt like we were on the verge of a revolution.

[politicaholic]

3. Growing our hair long, living in a tree, and learning to play the flute...

or we could be protesting a war. Just a couple thousand of my closest friends and a gravity bong would probably be a great way to spend every Saturday until the war ends.

[WI_DEM]

5. People actually believed in something during the 60's

there was the anti-war movement, civil rights movement, womens liberation movement,the War on Poverty and as the 60's turned to the 70's the gay liberation movement. Today, it seems like most people don't give a damn about anything except themselves. I hate to say it but it actually might take bringing back the draft to wake this country up.

[Shoeempress]

7. Thank you for posting that, I was really starting to think no one

remembered.

[nevergiveup]

13. Ditto

[oldtime dfl_er]

18. That's right, and people cared

When Kent State happened, it happened to all of us...it could have been my college campus. There was a definite divide then, a feeling of "us vs them" but they didn't have the power the right has today. We had the sense of destiny and the knowledge that we coudl make a difference. Somehow it seems different now.

www.cafepress.com/showtheworld

[forgethell]

24. If that's what it will take,

the country won't "wake up" in your lifetime.

[FtWayneBlue]

34. I think that's a good reason to picket the

recruitment centers. Slow recruitment to the point the draft has to come back - then people will wake up again.

[Massacure]

6. No, the rebels just happened to be liberals.

Actually, I'm 16, so I shouldn't talk. ;)

[Kerrytravelers]

8. I admire those that stuck with it in the Vietnam era and wish my

generation would follow their lead now.

[Snap]

9. some differences;

THE DRAFT, the summer of love, the sexual revolution, psychedilic drugs and music, lots of stuff and pretty damn exciting!

[jwirr]

26. Your post brings up what I think was the difference between

then and now. You are describing a time of excitement and hope that we could and would prevail. I remember feeling the same emotionally about the issues but today I have one added feeling - fear. Even back then it wasn't about drugs, sex and excitement. It was an issue of rights. Right to vote, right to refuse to fight in a war, right to speech. Very similar to today except that the rw is very strong and narrow minded and that make today dangerous. I long in my heart for the courage and commitment of those days but the world is a different place today. More threatening and fearsome.

[EST]

10. The labels, although spelled the same,

just don't mean the same. The threat to democracy, although similar, is enough different that the question becomes, if not totally unaskable, at best lacking in enough specifics that the answer attracts too many qualifiers for a confident answer.

[Jacobin]

11. Fuckin' A

[HockeyMom]

16. Tide turned when the sleeping giant of mainstream America

woke up when they saw on the nightly news the coffins coming home, the napalmed little Vietnamese children, etc. But today there is so much more at stake than just the Iraq war; our very way of life here in America. All our domestic, uneconomic, social advances made in the last 100 years are at stake now, which wasn't back then.

But it took the awakening of the sleeping giant of mainstream America back then to finally realize the so called "hippies" were right. I just hope these people wake up in time now before it is too late. Before we become a country unrecognizable to those of us who lived back then; a neocon, totalitarian, theocracy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Don't forget the Vietnam vets

I really believe that their outrage once they returned from the war sparked the 'movement' here in the late 60s, early 70s. And their involvement in the anti-war movement helped end the war in Vietnam.

[HockeyMom]

31. Yes, definitely that too

I knew a guy who had both legs blown off in Nam. He never missed a protest march. He would propel himself down the street on a skateboard on his belly. If a sight like that won't move you, nothing will.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Born on the Fourth of July

should be mandatory viewing for all DUers too young to remember the Vietnam War.

[bemildred]

20. "Liberal" is a term the right-wing applied to us, not one we picked.

But they considered Hubert Humphrey to be "the left".
But yeah, we shut shit down, cops feared us, things got burned,
people got killed, there were riots, lots of riots, and
sit-ins and politicians covered with blood from chickens.

The draft was a very motivating factor, as was the number of
our buddies that were coming home fucked up or dead, which is
why we still have no draft today despite the "need" in Iraq,
they know it is the price of quietude.

What should be done is a question I have no anwser to, in some
ways I think it's better to let the decay continue here, on the
other hand we have a moral debt to the Iraqis to end the
occupation. I think if a few million of us camped out in
Washington DC for a couple weeks, and refused to leave, it
would have an effect, but I don't know if we're ready for that
yet.

[longship]

21. Liberal? Maybe.

I agree with another poster. I'm not sure if I ever called myself a liberal, although I certainly was liberal.

The difference between the 60's and now is that there were people running for office who took principled positions and didn't back down to polling data. RFK was like that. So was Eugene McCarthy. I don't know if the liberal label really came into vogue until Reagan came onto the scene. Then it was used almost exclusively in a derogatory manner. That's when Democrats started to run against their principled positions.
And that was the beginning of a downward slide of power for the Dems.

In my opinion, until a candidate again runs on Democratic principles instead of Repug lite, a Dem will not again see the inside of the White House. There was absolutely no excuse for the last two Presidential elections. Both Gore and Kerry should have been easy wins. But Gore ran away from Clinton's record and Kerry ran on a pro-Iraq war plank. Neither gave any reason to select them over the extremely weak Bush.

Today, we don't need a liberal, or any other label. The repugs will demonize anybody running against them. What we need is somebody who will stand up against the lunacy and take a firm stand.

The more I think about it. The more I like:

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Much larger demonstrations

HUGE crowds. But we were motivated. The draft got a lot of folks off their feet. The stakes seemed higher then. But I believe that if * keeps up his crap, eventually folks will wake up and get mad. He is already losing a lot of his 'base'. - In Missouri, the low income people on Medicaid are furious with the repukes they elected in November. Gay marriage doesn't matter as much now that they are losing their health care.

So if we just sit back and wait, we will have a motivated group of protesters here before too long.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. "Liberals", no. Radicals, yes.

The "liberals" of the '60s were like the DLC of today. They didn't support the war but opposed ending it. "Liberal" politicians denounced the demonstrations, voted to fund the war, and managed to get Hubert Humphrey nominated.

It was still fashionable, and acceptable, to be a "liberal" in the '60s. But, they were embarrassed and frightened of the left so they became "moderates" by the time Nixon and Reagan got through browbeating them.

Politicians owe their allegience to one God, self-preservation.

[iverglas]

28. may I sing it one more time?

I was here in the 60s, and I wasn't a liberal and never will be, and Phil Ochs once sang The Highwayman to me alone, in a little coffee house in what we didn't know was almost his last year before he hanged himself in despair over the state of the world, or Bob Dylan's undeserved fame and fortune, or whatever ...

Love Me, I'm A Liberal
by Phil Ochs

I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

[welshTerrier2]

30. The Highwayman

what a fantastic song !! i listen to mostly folk music and make all sorts of CD compilations ... i have The Highwayman on one of my favorite CD's ...

what a loss it was when he died ...

[ElkHunter]

29. Love that Phil Ochs song...

...and it should be remembered that he was one of the few singers, besides the MC5, who took part in the '68 demonstrations in Chicago at the Democratic party convention.

And the fact that one of the most signifcant events of 1968 happened in the streets of Chicago (a city which had a Democrat mayor) at the Democratic Party Convention, should tell you much about the attitudes of the anti-war left toward liberals.

One of the differences between the 1960's and now was the sense of hope. We actually believed back then that we could change the world. These days we are so busy fighting the forces of reaction that we take little time to seriously discuss things how we can go about building a just society upon the basis of liberty, equality, and solidarity.

[iverglas]

36. I've got another ;)

Useful for modern-day "liberals", wondering about the glorious by-gone days, to contemplate!

BOUND FOR GLORY (The Story of Woody Guthrie)
PHIL OCHS
1963

He walked all over his own growin' land
From the New York island to the California sands.
He saw all the people that needed to be seen,
Planted all the grass where there needed to be green.
And now he's bound for a glory all his own,
And now he's bound for glory.

He wrote and he sang and he rode upon the rails,
And he got on board when the sailors had to sail.
He said all the words that needed to be said,
Fed all the hungry souls that needed to be fed.

And now he's bound for a glory all his own,
And now he's bound for glory.

He sang in our streets and he sang in our halls,
And he was always there when the unions gave a call.
He did all the jobs that needed to be done,
And he always stood his ground when smaller men would run.

And now he's bound for a glory all his own,
And now he's bound for glory.

And it's "Pastures of Plenty" wrote the Dust Bowl Balladeer,
And "This is Your Land," he wanted us to hear.
The rising of the unions will be sung again,
And the Deportees" live on through the power of his pen.

And now he's bound for a glory all his own,
And now he's bound for glory.

Now they sing out his praises on every distant shore,
But so few remember what he was fightin' for.
Oh why sing the songs and forget about the aim,
He wrote them for a reason, why not sing them for the same?

And now he's bound for a glory all his own,
And now he's bound for glory.



We all get handed our own particular set of circumstances, and we all need to do what Woody and his colleagues did, and what Phil and his colleagues did, with and about what we get handed.

[Mr_Spock]

33. YES!

I think so, though give us some time - we'll eventually get our shite together! We got them thar internets ya know :D

[BillZBubb]

35. Liberals rebellious? Not really.

The driving forces in all the major movements of the time were radicals of the left. The liberals then were like the liberals now--passive and impotent. They were very unreliable assets in the battle for change.

A week after Kent State, I was in Cleveland trying to get rich people going to the Cleveland Symphony to wear black armbands--which we were supplying for free. Liberal, (soon to be) US Senator Howard Metzenbaum was going in when I asked him if he'd wear one in memory of the dead students. He said no. I couldn't believe it, to this day I find it amazing.

Anyway, the number of radicals then was much higher than today. The draft was one motivator. But I think the real key was the total belief that we could accomplish something. We saw things moving forward on civil rights. We thought just the mass of students protesting the war would have influence throughout the system. There was a sense of doing something important and the satisfaction of making our society better. There was hope and optimism.

Now, none of that exists. People don't believe their actions will have much consequence. Most people don't have the desire to be a part of something that makes the country better if it inconveniences them in any way or hurts their career prospects. We, as a society, lack the hope and optimism of those days. We certainly don't have leadership at any level that offers it.