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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:21 AM
Original message
Email exchange with Freeper at work.
Actually, he claims to be a Libertarian but he's a BIG B* supporter. He just doesn't like paying taxes ("It's MY money!!!!"). WE regularly exchange political emails with others at work, although we usually try to keep it friendly. But I started to get a little more serious today when I sent this email:

The Bush Administration has consistently lied ever since he got into office. Here’s just a few off the top of my head:
· At least TWICE on EPA reports. Once, they had the EPA remove a report on Global Warming that concluded Humans had a significant impact on climate and replaced it with a report commissioned by oil corporations.
· Again when the EPA released a report stating that the air at post 9/11 Ground Zero was safe to breathe. In fact, the EPA had not even tested the air quality. Now, many of the rescue workers and construction workers that were there are reporting serious respiratory illnesses.
· They lied about pre-9/11 Intelligence. The 9/11 Commission in Chapter 8 titled “The System was Blinking Red” concluded that the warnings were there but Bushco ignored them. Also, new evidence has recently come to light that there were even more warnings - a phone tap revealed that a Islam radical told his wife something big was going to happen in the US in the next few days. http://www.complete911timeline.org/
· They falsified a annual report on US Health, purposely leaving out Black Males to make the report look better.
· They lied about Global Terrorism, saying it has decreased when it has in fact increased. Rice has even stopped releasing the official annual report.
· Yes, they lied about Iraq. Richard Clarke and Paul O’Neill both said it, and now they are backed up by the Downing Street Memo.
· They lied about the torture in Gitmo. The whole reason they put the prison camp in Cuba was so it under come under US Law, so they could perform torture.
· The Newsweek article. The Red Cross and FBI memos have proved that the mishandling of the Koran was known about. Then, the WH blames the Newsweek article for inciting riots in Afghanistan - AFTER DoD reports had already stated the article had nothing to do with the riots.

Here's his reply, and the answers I gave to each one just below each point. Notice how although my original point was B*'s lies, he keeps wanting to steer it in a different direction.

1. In New Zealand, it is the sheep flatulants that are creating environmental mayhem.

Me - Not sure how to respond to this... except that my point was that the EPA was forced to change it’s report for political, not scientific, reasons.
2. Common sense is that if there is smoke and clouds of dust and debris flying about, the air is hazardous. No matter what a government office says. That’s like saying that just because there wasn’t a label warning against tobacco smoke dangers, that the smoke inhaled into ones lungs was actually a good thing.

Me - The particulates weren’t visible to the naked eye. Still, the point is that a report was released indicating the air had been tested when, in fact, it had not.
3. Hindsight is 20/20. No matter what you think of the Bush administration, you cannot possibly believe that he would put all those people at risk just to start a war.

Me - I don’t necessarily buy into the LIHOP theory (Let It Happen On Purpose), although a lot of people do. I think it was just incompetence. However, my point is that he tried to COVER IT UP and lied about the Intelligence they received.
4. Terrorism has only increased in certain areas as a response to being attacked more often. As the idiots die off, it will decrease.

Me - Nope! It has increased worldwide: “The number of serious international terrorist incidents more than tripled last year, according to U.S. government figures, a sharp upswing in deadly attacks that the State Department has decided not to make public in its annual report on terrorism due to Congress this week.
Overall, the number of what the U.S. government considers “significant” attacks grew to about 655 last year, up from the record of around 175 in 2003, according to congressional aides who were briefed on statistics covering incidents including the bloody school seizure in Russia and violence related to the disputed Indian territory of Kashmir.” Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601623.html
5. If the memo was so important, it should have been released before or at least upon our attack of Iraq. It’s too late to look back now and the source of that memo is still in limbo.

Me - It was a Top Secret memo. It is very damaging to both the Blair and Bush Administrations, which is why it was not released previously. It was only “leaked” May 1st, ostensibly to damage Blair during the Election. The source is not “in limbo”, it is from Matthew Rycroft. http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/memo.html The Blair Administration has not denied it’s authenticity. The Bush Administration refuses to discuss it at all. Members of Congress have already sent Bush one letter demanding an explanation, which he has refused to do. John Conyers is having another letter signed by himself and 88 other Congressmen with a petition demanding Bush respond. http://www.johnconyers.com/
6. Torture? You call that torture? How about filming and releasing the beheading of innocent people and the blatant killings of women and children by homicide bombers.

Me - Do 2 wrongs make a right? We are the ones saying we are civilized. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Still, the Bush Admin was aware of the “interrogation techniques” but lied about it.
7. There is something wrong with people if they kill 5 for getting a book wet.

Me - Again, they DIDN’T! The DoD released a report the riots had nothing to do with the Newsweek article, and Karzai verified this later. Still, the WH condemned Newsweek by blaming the riots on the article.

How'd I do?
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ah, I'd be fired at work for private email
It's not allowed.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. You might as well have pissed into the wind
Although pissing into the wind would be easier and less work, it has almost the same effect.

"And to the Iranian people, I say tonight: As you stand for your own liberty, America stands with you." - G. W. Bush

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!
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chalky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Your replies were factual, thoughtful, and clear headed.
And I can't wait to hear what cotton-headed answers he'll have in response.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. good job
these people are idiots.

ill-informed. It's not just what they don't know, it's what they DO know that AIN'T SO that's the problem.
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chicagojoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. Exxxxcellent, Smithers, Exxxcellent.
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. Best to leave him alone
Afterall, he might think. I'd end with an email that says that you 2 have to work together professtionally and will do so despite the political differences. Work can't be done if a team is divided. The more we are divided the weaker we become. Hey, it's that what Bin Laden wanted to do 9/11/01?
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. We still work well together. We still have respect for each other's
abilities.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. Don't wrestle with pigs. You'll only get dirty....
And besides, the pig likes it.
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. You are very persistent.
But productive at work?
Actually, I sneak into DU at work, and tend to post short stuff anyway.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. He's in the Tech Call Center. So he emails between calls.
I multi-task. I do documentation and it helps clear my mind to go back and forth.
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Ah. A writer.
From what you posted, it flows well, and answers every challenge. Co-worker's responses seem to be just talking points, as usual.
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LeeB Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-02-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. I think you did just great!
I have a similar "pen pal" with whom I've exchanged emails -- and sometimes face-to-face encounters over lunches -- who is also a * supporter. At least, he was. We began during the Florida fiasco and haven't let up for a minute.

It is great mental exercise; keeps one sharp explaining reality to these folks. I couldn't help but notice that your co-worker suffers from the same mental atrophy as mine. I frequently give him the devil for his "content-free" or "fact-free" reasoning. :spank: In nearly every exchange, he ends up sending me raspberries because he finds, much to his annoyance, that he has no effective argument and worst of all, finds himself AGREEING with me. Hee! I give him a lot of credit for having a sense of humor because he keeps coming back for more rational thought, despite his annoyance.

Keep it up. It's our job. Changing the world one heart/mind at a time . . .
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