Al Franken just mentioned that he is not for leaving Iraq immediately...

[Postman]

..that "we" have to rebuild that country. That the theft of billions with nothing of tangible value to show for it is one of the reasons there is an insurgency.

That is all well and good but I think it is too late for "us" to rebuild that country. The horse is already out of the barn, as it were. The aftermath of the Iraq invasion has been so botched up by profiteering that it has made it impossible for any self-respecting Iraqi to trust their country to US corporate interests.

In other words, the neo-con occupation and economic restructuring of Iraq has been an abominating failure.

To somehow think that it can be "fixed" now, I think, is not possible to do. And to waste more lives trying to do so is just crazy.

Franken also said that he thinks that it might be worse if we were to leave.

You don't know that.

We DO know that it's not getting better while "we" are there.

Let's get out of Iraq.

Bring the troops home.

Failing plans are doomed to fail.

[King Coal]

1. Cat Woman had something to say about this yestiddy.

[CatWoman]

13. LOL

And I was boiled in oil on that thread :D

[King Coal]

16. Not to pick nits, but isn't that being fried?

:hi:

[CatWoman]

17. LOLOL

Yes, FRENCH fried :D

:hi:

[acmavm]

2. Does he really think that an American presence is helping? I mean,

isn't that the big issue with the 'insurgency' and most of the Iraqi people? That THEY want us out of there?

Just wondering because I get confused when liberals try to say that we should stay in Iraq. I sort of got the idea that us being there was a major irritant to most of the Iraqi people.

[Stirk]

3. You know, I'm a big fan of Franken and his show- but lately he's

really been pissing me off. Things are getting worse and worse in this country, and he's still all about having fascist pals and everyone just getting along.

Like yesterday- he had G. Gordon Liddy on his show and let him spout all kinds of bullshit. Liddy insinuated that Mark Felt is a deranged old man, and his family is just manipulating him so they can make money. That's about as low as Liddy could go- and he raced there, with no objections from Al. After all- they're friends.

Al kept repeating what good friends they are. Like that's supposed to impress someone- Liddy is a damned criminal, and a part of one of this country's most shameful episodes. He's a snake. Having him as a friend is hardly a mark in your favor.

Or that Senate hearing last week- I was actually quite annoyed by all cracking of jokes in that setting. Sure, that hearing was all PR- but the subject could not be more serious, and it's not being addressed *anywhere else*. Seemed a bad time to do schtick. The whole thing seemed like some big, put-on, Washington insider bullshit.

His position on staying in Iraq annoys the hell out of me as well. Someone said recently that our staying in Iraq to "fix" it is like a rapist hanging around to paint the garage. That's about it.

[Al-CIAda]

6. Yes sir, good post. n/t

[Postman]

9. I once mentioned...

that staying in Iraq is akin to a criminal, after having raped your daughter, starts feeling remorseful and insists on helping you around the house.

The same as your analogy in your post.

Somehow the rightwing lunatics can't/won't see it that way.

[mopaul]

4. go for it al, i'm stayin' out of it

[quiet.american]

5. Yes, bring the troops home. Stop this Vietnam-redux.

Why do we have to kill millions of Iraqis and see over 50,000 of our own die before we say, "okay, time to go."

[immoderate]

7. I think Al can and will be convinced differently.

He almost alluded to that.

--IMM

[bpilgrim]

8. he is with the establishment on most issues

too bad, i don't think that will help him get in as a reformer :shrug:

i still love the guy and all the hard work he puts into getting the word out there, here's to you Al :toast:

peace

[KlatooBNikto]

10. It should come as no surprise because I have always suspected Al Franken

of being a DINO in the same mold as Lieberman.

[LibDemAlways]

11. Al is a moderate.

He frequently has a Limbaugh listening old school pal on and lets people like Liddy take the mike to spout rw bullshit for who knows what reason. He ought to sit down with Malloy for an hour and learn how a real progressive thinks.

[Village Idiot]

12. How do people like this manage to tie their shoes?

The answer is OBVIOUS.

If you are going to leave an occupied territory at some point, you DO NOT BUILD 14 PERMANENT MILITARY BASES...

What in the heck are they thinking??? Do they truly believe that the USA is going to hand these installations over TO THE IRAQIS???

Idiots. Fools. Morans.

[montanacowboy]

14. AL IS RUNNING FOR SENATE

He is just another politician DLC ass kisser - I have not cared for him for a long time - he just doesnt't freakin get it as most of our elected "DEMS" don't get it

If we only had a real Progressive Leader - someone who will stand up and articulate our views - but no, we get more of this bullshit

Even Dean won't go there - so what do we have? Nothing folks, warmed over repuke bullshit - no wonder people don't vote

[Al-CIAda]

22. Pretty much it. n/t

[Vincardog]

15. I for one am tired of Al using Air America to push his 'moderate'

views. I do not turn on AA to listen to Rush or Liddy. If he wants to push the radical right's agenda he should get on RW station. I tune into AA to hear True Progressives speaking truth to power.

[plasticsundance]

21. Amen to that Vincardog

When Al was before the Congressional panel, he reads from his book. Dude, we heard that material from you the past how many years? Katherine Lanpher is even worse. She builds these arguments based on insisting that one should never step beyond what she thinks is too radical. She'll say something to a guest like the following in an irritating nasel tone: "You don't really believe that, do you?" or "Oh Al"

Al still makes some compelling arguments, but there does appear to be quite a bit of bullshit you have to manage through to get to some good stuff.

And let's not forget that we've been messing up in and just plain messing up Iran and Iraq since at least the 50's.

http://www.representativepress.org/CIASaddam.html">The Devil in the Details: The CIA and Saddam Hussein


http://www.iranchamber.com/history/coup53/coup53p1.php">A short account of 1953 Coup

[Vincardog]

25. Exactly so Plastic. Why does Al have his RW 'Friend" on and not nail him?

I am So tired of listening to the RW talking points and Al lets him get away with the shit time after time. Some times Al takes him up to the edge of slaying him with the facts then doesn't hit him. I have started to switch to a music station for the Al and friends segment.

[Just Me]

18. Our obligation to compensate and rebuild does NOT NOT NOT mean,...

,...keeping US troops in Iraq. Why the hell are people stuck on believing the only means of compensating the Iraqi people for and rebuilding their nation after our war cannot be accomplished without US Troop presence? I mean, that's a weird belief to be stuck on knowing damn well that, as long as US troops remain the insurgency will grown and more innocent people will die!!!

Damnit!!!

[underpants]

19. I agree

it is a great rallying cry but pulling out would be disasterous in both the short term and long term.

[CatWoman]

20. UP -- You'd better duck and cover

:hi:

[underpants]

24. Excuse me I forgot to post this in my original post

If you don't agree then you should try blowing your head out of your ass or try blowing anything out of your ass but I'd be willing to bet that your head is currently in the way. OH ON EDIT- I don't mean this personally I just am tired as hell and don't want to get into that whole obvious argument.

Not directed at you Catwoman.

I'll just be over here.

[bpilgrim]

23. pulling out would be disastrous in both the short term and long term

and how do we define the current DISASTER?

since our PRESENCE is making it WORSE and NOT taking us to the promise land we need to get the FUCK OUT NOW!

how may more years of blood and treasure are YOU willing to spend, till you are willing to pull out are troops from this ILLEGAL WAR?

it is amazing to me that folks see this as a valid response to our HIGH WAR CRIMES and actually believe that somehow we will make it better :crazy:

peace