60% of DUers older than 40? Let's engage in serious discussion here....

[expatriot]

60% of the 410+ DUers who have voted in my "how old are you" poll are 40 or older. This finding suprised me, I was personally thinking going into the poll that the bulk of DUers would be between the ages of 25-40 for some reason, that was just by general impression going in. So what is the cause of this?

Are Boomers and the older end of Xers (yes, a lot of Xers are pushing into 40 now) just more politically conscious and aware than the younger generations? I do not think it is a retirees who spend a lot of time online thing because only 6% of respondents are older than 60

Or is it just a problem with my sampling? Obviously it is an online poll and non-scientific but I don't think I did anything to skew the poll in any one way. So what are your thoughts? Is this an overall systemic problem of political apathy in the younger crowd or is this just to the credit of the 40-60 crowd?

here's the link to the poll...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3368734&mesg_id=3368734

[whistle]

1. Only 413 DUers took the poll out of 68,000+ registered

[expatriot]

3. 2 points:

1. How many of these 70,000 registered logins are active users. It would be interesting to see the stats of how many of the 70K have logged in the past 24 hours, 48 hours, week, 2 weeks, etc. and also how many post and what percentage of them do what percentage of the posting.

2. What about the poll has disriminated it to sway one particular age group from responding than another?

[whistle]

11. ...and point three....

...the poll was on a thread post which has a visible post life of about 60 minutes

[expatriot]

15. not the way I have been shamelessly promoting it :)

[Eloriel]

42. Your shameless promotion has resulted in me seeing this for the 1st

time just now. And I've been online for many hours today, compared with most days lately, AND I typically spend most of my time in GD, GDP and LBN.

The membership is a VERY fast-moving target.

[0rganism]

24. another point: 413 is plenty

If this were a *random* (i.e., not self-selected) survey, 413 would be a statistically significant population sample. You will regularly see NATIONAL polls reporting results with 1000 respondants and margins (i.e., 95% confidence intervals) of around 3%.

[Cleita]

2. An interesting theory on radio was that the older generations

got a better education in government, history and current events. We were taught to think as well. I was watching Jay Leno with his dummy jeopardy parody and I can't believe how ignorant these people are that he pulls off the street. All of them are much younger than GenXers too. So to me it means that this generation is learning nothing in school about our government and our history.

[ChiciB1]

9. I'm A Boomer & I Asked A Question A While Back....

Are They Still Teaching CIVICS?? Never got many takers, but those who did weren't very knowledgeable about the subject. I guess there is a form of Government that is being taught, but perhaps it's just not a subject that is being taught much any more.

I try to keep all those younger than me, my kids, grand-kids et al interested in what is going on. I'm so political and I spread it around, but our MSM hasn't been very helpful in advancing the Fourth Estate anymore. It's Michael, Paris, Brittany and the latest flavor of the week!

The message just isn't getting out there. Guess it's up to us, because we certainly aren't getting much help.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

18. No they aren't teaching Civics anymore. We had a few discussions

at my college about that, at a Volunteer/Civic Engagement forum. The president of the school, along with many of the professors were absolutely blown away by that fact.

It is terrible, the dumbing down of America. x( But it makes better consumers of them all that way, and that seems to be the main driving force in our culture. :sigh:

[ChiciB1]

25. That's An Outrage!!!

Even though many of the teachings are decidedly geared to the "white male" population, at least we did have some inkling as to what went on.

We were products of a different way of thinking. Unions were very important back then, we had a middle class back then. Today, we live in what I call a "throw away society of instant gratification".

When I was young there was no such thing as everyone having a credit card. You paid cash or you didn't buy it. Sure you got loans for cars and homes and several large ticket items, but never a credit card. I was 36 before I got my first credit card in the middle 80's. And then it was only by necessity... I wanted to go see the Atlanta Braves play a game and I didn't have a card for them to process so I could get tickets. Fortunately one of our friends had a card, so we paid them. Shortly thereafter, we got our own cards.

I've often said that it was during the Reagan administration that people were fed the line that "yes, you CAN have the things you want, just CHARGE it"! And thus it began... now the country is being RUN by Credit Card companies. Back to 20th century CAPITALISM!!

No middle class, no Union, no hope!

[rockedthevoteinMA]

34. I suppose I should have clarified my statement - in Massachusetts

civics classes aren't being taught. I hear what you are saying about unions, people my age don't get it. My fiance was fired last year from a job because he was trying to get people to sign petitions against the overtime paycuts the labor dept. was working towards passing. (they told him they "couldn't afford him anymore" yet he was the most productive in his department.) I think they were afraid he was going to try to push for a union.

Ah the credit card BS. I had one, once, when I was 21. That was a bad experience, enough to cure me of that for life. I saw my parents go through bankruptcy due to medical bills for my sister's illness (no health insurance) and will NEVER let that happen to me. They were what would be classified as middle class, though now, I see them struggle every month to make ends meet, and they earn close to six figures. I am a firm believer in, if I can't pay for it now, I don't need it. Yes, there are things I 'want' occassionally, but I get over it. It's easier that way, no headache of worrying about the bills being paid on time...etc.

I shake my head in amazement when I go to school (community college) and hear how out of touch with reality some of the students are, in their abercrombie and fitch clothes, with all the new gadgets, driving their SUV's. It makes me wonder if I'm the one out of touch. :shrug:

I don't know if I would classify the economics in this country as capitalism anymore...it's so predatory. It's like brainwashing. Must buy, must have... blech.

You summed it up perfectly Today, we live in what I call a "throw away society of instant gratification"

[ChiciB1]

39. Maybe Not Capitalism....

just my word for the "monied people" who have and want to KEEP it.

I live here in Florida and most people who provide services such as waitressing, lawn maintenance, hair styling, etc will tell you that the WORST tippers are those that have lots of money.

A saying that has been spoken far too many times "the reason they have so much money is because they only spend it on themselves". Perhaps a little simplistic, but I've seen it happen many many times.

I'm sure there are many that do spread it around, but generally not unless they think it's going to benefit them in some way.

Ah, what a cynic I am.

[XemaSab]

22. My government teacher

in high school was a deadhead, and my class was full of anarchist kids from Bolinas, so I had a decent civics education.

[eallen]

27. I've sometimes wondered this myself. We had to read the Constitution....

And were tested on it.

[Toots]

4. Most people between the ages of 18 and thirty five don't get involved

Most don't vote or watch the news. Not many are political at all. As one gets older they get a little wiser and more concerned for the well being of the nation. I believe it has always been that way. Even during the notorious '60s things didn't begin to turn around until older Americans started getting involved. Age brings gravitas so more people pay attention.

[Submariner]

5. In the 60s/70s we took it to the streets

and we had a MSM that reported the facts. I believe we were more politically conscious and aware than the younger generation today...it feels that way anyway.

The youth today are fed corporate news with no truth to mold their political policies and feelings. To snap them out of their fog we need a Deepthroat II and/or a Daniel Berrigan releasing files, etc.

[0rganism]

6. Maybe older DUers are more inclined to self-select for online polls

We should not be surprised by this; older people also self-select for voting in higher numbers. Also, I'd be surprised if any political site had more than a handful of regular users under 10 years old, which will significantly shift the age demographics.

I'm more concerned about the 60+ demographic. Only 6%?

[expatriot]

17. I think the 60+ numbers are due to

overriding internet use among 60+ year olds. I think we will see a wave of that change as those who are still in the workforce and are using the internet frequently at work, when they leave the workforce they will continue to use the internet in large numbers.

[KharmaTrain]

7. I Didn't See Your Poll

Generally I avoid many of them...and I have a feeling others around here do as well. Things move so fast you pick and choose where you can.

I'm 40+ but maybe I'm fortunate to have more time on my hands than someone whose younger...and most definitely than I did when I was 20-30.

From one whose I guess would be an old-timer here, I've seen a lot of turnover in the past year. Flamewars, other boards/websites or just plain losing interest creates an ever-changing ebb and flow around here.

Also, keep in mind this is the start of the summer. People are going on vacation and it's a different crowd now than you'll find in the fall or winter.

Cheers!

[flamin lib]

8. I didn't take the poll, but think it significant

that the numbers increased with age. The only anomaly was the 40-49 (?) age group.

Youth is too busy being young to appreciate the nuances of what controls their life. Maturity brings introspection and observation. Old age brings, uh, I forgot what old age brings . . .

[expatriot]

14. interesting points... and as for the anomaly...

It really isn't an anomaly... if I would have known there would be so many 40+ I would have broken down the 50-59 into two 5 year groups like the other groups but I ran out of options... I should have combined 0-12 and 13-18 into one 0-18 group.

If I would have done that, I think you would have seen a pretty nice bell curve with the peak age group being 40-44 and the groups 45-49 being second, 50-54 being third (or maybe 35-39).

[Jacobin]

10. As testosterone levels decline, war does not appear as attractive

Also, we remember Viet Nam.

My main issue on this site, dating back a few years (hell I got tombstoned a few years back for suggesting a little too directly that certain people in power were spending too much of our blood and treasure for another nation, which will not be named) is the damned invasion of Iraq.

I could smell those lies from a hundred miles away. I spent a lot of time faxing, writing and emailing and calling congresscritters, to try to stop Bush's Glory War. It didn't work. I was profoundly and deeply and permanently pissed off at many congresscritters and particularly Kerry, whose 35 page apologia trying to explain his position just pissed me off more.

I've got two sons who are soon to be draft age. I don't want them to have to go through what I went through in the late 1960's early 1970's.

The other issues are important, but my ox, the one that is goring me, is the fucking warmongering of this administration.

Anyway, how did I get off on this tangent, anyway? :shrug:

That's why I'm here and I'm as old as a tree.

[yurbud]

12. takes decades of school of hard knocks to see need for politics

I did some work with my union and noticed that everyone at conferences was my age (40) or older. Before that, you might care about the more glamorous issues like animal rights for the left, or abortion for left and right, but you don't feel the bread and butter economic issues in your gut until you need to go the doctor and can't or you can't pay off your student loans, or your job is moved to India.

That's when the politics moves from hobby to survival.

[MGKrebs]

13. Hmm. I would have had the same pre-suppositions as you.

Some possibilities:

- Younger DUers don't like polls
- I seem to remember statistics where younger people don't vote as much as other groups. Could be related. I know I didn't pay too much attention politically when I was in my 20's and into the 30's. Or at least wasn't 'active'.
- The poll is in the Lounge. Maybe the younger folks are elsewhere?
- The DU software tabulator is counting the votes incorrectly!!

:D

[Gormy Cuss]

16. You asked....

As you know, your poll isn't scientific.This type of online poll is attempting a census, not a sample. That is, all members of DU have an opportunity to respond. A scientific sample, on the other hand, would aim to capture the characteristics of the whole population by polling only a portion of the population. For example, if you are trying to poll a racial representative sample of Americans, you want your respondent percents by race to mirror the whole population. If you have ever answered a phone survey and wondered why they asked your gender, race, income or education level, now you know. Professional polling companies have an army of accepted tools for selecting a sample with only a few hundred respondents yet have confidence that the range of responses is close to what one would obtain by polling everyone.

The caveat to interpreting your poll result is that the nonresponse bias potential is enormous because only a handful of those eligible to reply chose to do so AND you do not have a basis for comparing this handful to the whole. Because you don't know anything that would allow you to measure it. DUers over age 40 may be more inclined to answer polls. That would skew the results. On the other hand, you may have posted the poll during an interval when a disproportionate number of DUers online are older (perhaps because the younger Duers are busy with end of school year activities.) These are just guesses. The truth may be something else.
All hail unscientific polls!

[KoKo]

19. Maybe older DU'ers didn't have the distractions of TV/Computers/Video

Games, etc. We didn't have a hundred cable channels vying for our time, and there was more informational reporting on the networks because we only had three, and there were political discussion shows (not shouting fests) that were available for those who didn't watch the sitcoms, etc.

I think our lives were filled with fewer distractions and I remember that more of us read and discussed issues. I think we were very much more involved in politics and socializing with other people because we didn't have these distractions or the ability to just zone in front of the computer where one can be entertained and isolated from the world.

I could say all this better and flesh it out more...but we've had so many of these discussions here on DU through the years that many would be bored.

[johnaries]

20. Not valid. You're forgetting the Reluctant Under-40 Responder.

You should wait until the Diebold tallies come in. :evilgrin:

[EC]

21. In the 60's and 70's young people were more politically

active, because the draft made them pay attention to what was going on, we had government and civics classes. The Dem's did put a out a Bill and had it passed to teach more civics classes, but the Republicans cut the funding for it, it was just in the paper this week about the Repuges not financing it.

Also, for a glimpse of our education system now, watch "Street Smarts" (a game show) - the younger generation now knows quite allot about gossip, but little about anything important. The only interest most of them seem to have now is the "Game" mentality, such as "my team won, rah, rah...."

[BeFree]

23. I believe-

- the poll is close to correct.

We are the generation about to assume power, therefore we are the most interested in what comes next, therefore we are the most populous of this political board.

We do need to be a shining example to the younger crowd, and I fear that at that endeavor we have been failing. We need more of our younger citizens to be, and feel, more comfortable with our politics, and the answer to the question of how we do that will write the history of America.

[XemaSab]

26. Screw this "bagging on the young"

shit!

I remember back in the day when GenX was the "slacker" generation that was never going to amount to shit, then along came the internet and whaddya know, those "slackers" were capable of working 70 hour weeks and putting the whole darn thing together.

My guess about part of the problem with the sample is that younger folks are more likely to work jobs where they can't spend half the day on the internet, and as you get older, you're more likely to move into a white-collar job where you can be on the 'net half the day and as long as you get your work done, the boss doesn't really care.

Hey, hippies, remember back when you were young and your parents' generation thought YOU were a bunch of useless dope-smoking wastrels? Yeah, exactly. I rest my case.

[tjwash]

30. I call it the "kids today..." syndrome. All us old farts over 50 get it...

...and I caught myself saying it the other day. Don't worry, I slapped myself real good for it.

[Nordmadr]

32. Well, I still am a hippy dope smoking wastrel...

but now I'm a politcally active, white collar job, hippy, dope smoking wastrel.

Olaf

[Nordmadr]

28. Well, I just answered the poll.

I will be 32 years old next week. I have voted in every Presidential election since I turned 18. 2 votes for Clinton, a vote for Gore, and a vote for Kerry. I have seen my politcal activity and interest evolve greatly through that time. My issue even as a teenager was the environment, but I was not particularly politically informed until I got out of the Navy (1995). It was around that time that I started paying alot more attention to politics. Around the 2000 election I started voting in elections other than presidential. After Gore lost, I was much more conscious of what was really going on in this Nation, after Kerry lost...well, here I am.

That puts me at a few phases where I would say my political activity showed marked transitioning.

Age
18
22
27
31

Oddly enough, this has followed along fairly well with Presidential election cycles. I think I was more active than most in my age group at each level. I think there is some apathy in the younger folks, but also just plain youth. Kids seem to always have more important things to worry about than the dusty old folks in suits. Many people begin to later relaize that those dusty old folks need to be kept an eye on. We develop a sense of duty as a citizen to keep our government honest. Unfortunately, large corporations have been able to whip our asses while we were lulled to sleep. I don't know about you but my snooze alarm went off and I am wide awake. What I see scares the hell out of me.

Olaf

[annabanana]

29. maybe the deterioration of the education system?

(just a thought)

[mandyky]

31. Surprised about 2 things

1 the majority saying they are older

2 that that is true in DU Lounge

I voted just now, but I rarely go to the lounge.

Maybe we could get Skinner and the admins to do a weekly demographic poll, not just about age, but party affiliation, location, gender, etc.

[sweetheart]

33. Age old young forever

Older is politically smarter, no question about it. It is enough time
to have lived and found one's wings in life... and perhaps then, there
is something one can contribute in a political discussion.

At 25 years old, i was too "busy" with silly things that seemed
important at the time... and when 40 hits... lots of those silly
things are just facile and tiresome.

Perhaps it takes some years to be honest, to respect and admire truth,
as something not just academic, but core to civility, justice and
goodwill.

[donheld]

35. Maybe most people under 40

are too busy with kids, jobs, etc. too sit and chat on things like DU. Who knows. :shrug: Just so they're not too busy to care.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. simple math.

How old are people who are politically active? 18 and up.

What is the life expectancy in the US? About 75.

So you'd expect DU'ers to be between 21 and 75. The mean is 48. The 40th percentile of that range is 43.

Why is this surprising?

[mmonk]

37. Originally missed your poll,

Thanks for the link and my participation in being part of the majority vote.

[oneighty]

38. Seventy one

I am on 21 June. I have told my age may times on DU over the many months. Your thread was way too long for me to participate.

180 is not my age. It is a joke.

Hee hee hee

180

[KoKo]

40. I think there are huge amounts of 20 to early 30's here. They just missed

the post. :shrug: But, I'm glad to see all the "others," too. :-)'s

We need to hold this post on DU until there's a huge amount of replies to get a better sample...methinks. :shrug:

[expatriot]

41. I think the belief that DU is dominated by 20's and 30's is a myth

that perhaps my painfully simple and obvious poll is dispelling.... I don't see how as an age group, the younger generation "missed it"

[LSdemocrat]

43. I don't think many younger people find the lounge welcoming

Especially from a pop culture perspective, the lounge seems to be dominated by people constantly pining for when everything (mainly movies, TV, music) was "better". Any new innovations in pop culture seem to be incessantly trashed, i.e. all forms of reality TV. Many young people grew up as children of the culture of the 1980's and 1990's and are very comfortable with modern pop culture. This sort of almost air of nostalgic superiority which many people fervently advocate, I suspect, turns younger people off.

[omega minimo]

44. Punks or prognosticators?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1821041