Can't Atheists get along with Christians?

[FuriousMNDem]

I mean, just because you do or don't believe in God doesn't mean you should go after others with differing views.

That's what Republicans do.

[BurtWorm]

1. I can get along with Christians who don't talk about Jesus all the time.

I can't get along with the other kind.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

89. I don't Christians who blather on about Jesus all the time...

And I'm a regular church-goer and former Congregation President. Those people just scare me, to tell you the truth.

[nini]

2. Yes

It's called respect for others beliefs.

Someone I love very much is an atheist and we manage a solid relationship.

[Avalux]

What a question.

How about this - respect the beliefs (or nonbeliefs) of others. It's really that simple.

[WillyT]

3. I Can... Some Of My Best Friends Are Christians...

:evilgrin::rofl::evilgrin:

[Touchdown]

4. Can Christians get along with Atheists?

History shows the answer to that is usually no. Respectfulness is a two way street.

BTW: I am Methodist, and suggest we clean up our own house before we harp on about theirs.

[bryant69]

16. Yeah but are we talking about society as a whole?

Or DU?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Touchdown]

50. I was referring to Christians cleaning up our own house.

...and my reference would be society as a whole, since DU is only a microcosm of it.

[LeftCoast]

5. Seems to me the question should be the other way around...

Not a christian or an atheist, btw....

[Tux]

6. Well

UU Christians mostly could care less. My Baptist aunt think they're cold and indecent. I think atheists are needed since the can counter religious extremism with reason. From my experience, atheists tend to be more moral than most religious people I met. I have problems with atheists at all. God bless atheists.

[ArkDem]

21. Well written!

[Ekirh]

7. As a Christian. . .

I have a few Athiest friends. Not going to say many but I've had a few and I've gotten along with them quite well. I think the things that helped me get along with Athiest is mutural agreements and similiar interests. One of my best friends from High School was an Athiest. . . we acknowledge that I believed in a god and he did not and left it at that. We never tried to convince the other otherwise. Not to mention why focus on a difference such as that when we both had similar tastes in movies, musics, entertainment, politics and such. So many similiatries and stuff we could discuss and enjoy that the fact that one of us was an Athiest and one of us was a Christian. I always try to never allow one's religious beliefs. . . or lack thereof. . . be a barrier.

[Ladyhawk]

40. Question: did you ever try to convert HIM?

I'm trying to find Christians who realize that the bible and Jesus are too large to shove down my throat. So far, they can't leave me be and have to try proselytizing. It won't work because I was a fundy Christian for the earliest part of my life.

I want to get along with Christians, but I find the bible to be an appallingly violent, genocidal book. There are only a few decent passages in the gospels and that's about it. Most of the OT is irredeemable. The homophobic, misogynistic epistles of Paul make most of the NT irredeemable as well. I can't understand how someone could call the bible a good book. I've read the darn thing many times and couldn't fine much to call good.

:shrug:

I just don't "get" religion. It seems so contrived and most religions are based on horrid ancient texts like the bible. Thomas Jefferson thought the bible was so awful, he made his own version, cutting out all the nasty parts. Jefferson's Bible is pretty lightweight, I understand.

Look, I want to get along, but I don't understand how a good religion could come from something like the bible. All the Abrahamic religions rely on some form of the Old Testament and consider it to be "holy." No wonder the Jews hate the Muslims, the Muslims hate the Jews, the Christians hate the Muslims, the Muslims hate the Christians, etc. The basis for their religion is a very violent, very genocidal book. If taken literally, that book is bloody dangerous. Each sect believes it is the one chosen by god. In the OT, god's chosen people are justified in killing other people in order to take their land. Hmmmm, does that sound familiar? It's what's happening in Iraq. It's what's happening in Israel. Both fundamentalist Palestinians (Muslims) and fundamentalist Israelis (Jews) believe god gave them the "Holy Land." How many people have died to possess this so-called "Holy Land"?

I'm sorry. I'm trying. I understand the need for a Christian Left movement in the United States, but I don't understand how a decent person can believe the bible is a holy book. I just don't get it. I've tried to get it. There are some good things in the bible, but most of it is violent, genocidal, immoral, or a crock of shit. I wonder how anyone could, first of all, believe the paranormal miracle stuff. Secondly, I wonder how anyone could ignore all the horrible, violent, genocidal, misogynistic, homophobic passages and base a religion on a narrow set of teachings by a person named Jesus who probably never even existed (Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth).

"Jesus" contradicts himself often and some of his teachings aren't very nice, like the one where, in a parable, Jesus suggests that a slave should be beaten with many stripes:

Luk 12:47: And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

First of all, slavery is wrong. Jesus had many chances to condemn it and didn't. Secondly, it is wrong to beat someone for not doing your will.

Another important point: even Jesus's "good" stuff, like the "Golden Rule," are borrowed from earlier philosophers.

So, how can you build a good religion on a book that is mostly violent and genocidal, where the key figure contradicts himself, probably never existed and even preached pro-slavery sermons?

I don't get it.

I promised to help the Christian Left, but I don't understand how you can adhere to a religion that doesn't have a leg to stand on. :( That's the way I feel. After years of research, I can honestly say I have no respect for the bible or the religions that were founded upon it. In light of the obvious facts I've pointed out, tell me why I should respect religion?

[JNelson6563]

47. Ladyhawk

You are where I once was. It is very confusing, I know. People who believe such things are enlightened and holy believe that because it is what they have been told all their lives.

Think back to when you were a believer. How did you come to be so? The same holds true for many others. It begins while we are in the cradle. Few question because it doesn't occur to them. The idea of actually not believing is frightening. First you're risking the wrath of the vengeful, violent but all loving (????) bible-god. That is a big fear many are not even consciously aware of but it's there alright. (What Christian child hasn't heard the bible tales of the fates befalling those who cross "god's people"?) Then you figure in how often one has heard that the atheist leaves a cold, barren life of no purpose. By the time one has reached the "age of reason" the they are convinced that if they even seriously entertained doubts about their faith something nasty awaits. Could be hell (for disavowing bible-god) or the pointless existence of atheism or any number of miserable fates the imagination can conjure up.

In time Ladyhawk you will be able to better (at least) tolerate the situation. Take a fresh look at 1984 to better understand the Orwellian-ness of the whole thing. Good luck in your journey for peace.

Julie

[Ekirh]

58. Sheesh

I was just answering a simple question and now I feel like I'm being somewhat lectured to.

No... I never tried to convert him. I never try to convert anyone. Hell I'm a Christian and I still have people try to convert me for some odd reason and it's annoying as hell. If I find it a pain... I know others definitely do. There really is no reason. He doesn't believe in God and that's his right.

You don't have to respect religion if you don't want to. That is you're business. Just respect my right to adhere and/or believe in a religion and I of course respect you're right to find it all to be hypocritical and pointless bullshit. However, should that get in the way of us getting along?

[LightningFlash]

76. I have to say the same thing...Though there are two sides to each story.

In fact, while the Bible is vehemently mistranslated there are also passages in it which offer a sense of important logic and cohesive history.

Being on both sides of the issue, an aethiest and a christian(though never at the same time) I have seen how easily it is to distort something, in order to fit your own mantra and agenda.

Mis-translating of anything is a very dangerous tool in the wrong hands. The Book of Mormon for instance, which truths are held to be self-evident, is very much strongly opposite of the Bible. In the scriptures, it is still possible to mistranslate and make meaning of things that did not happen. But it is very much less of a controversy than the apparent Bible or other forms.

We are taught to love thy neighbor as thyself, and seek common perspectives. This is just not something they ever write in the bible or nearly any of the holy books. Those words ring pretty clear of what can be dangerously mis-translated. It's not talking about people inside the same religious circles, but is in fact talking about all people.

[TWiley]

128. Please allow me to explain "religion" to you.

The Religious flaw is this: Why would an all powerful, all knowing, and loving God allow people who love him and earnestly try to do His will to suffer?

There are several possible answers to this dilemma:

1) There is no God
2) God is not all powerful
3) God is not loving
4) You do not love God, and are not doing His Will.

Most Church People select option 4. But what happens when Jesus is the one who is suffering? Obviously option 4 does not apply to him.

God (you see) writes all the rules, and He decided that He would not be happy without the blood sacrifice of one of His creations.

Therefore, he tortured and killed his only son to gain the self-esteem necessary to forgive the rest of us for being the humans that he created in the first place.

Torturing and killing your only son is actually an act of Love he decided to express to the sinners. He hates sinners, and wants them to burn in hell so he decided to kill something he loved and who loved him.

Therefore, stomping a puppy who loves you to death after torturing it is a supreme act of Christian love. If you do this, then maybe you will be willing to forgive the other people in your life for being the idiots that they are.

Now, that is not tooo complicated after all is it.

[undeterred]

8. My father was an atheist and I am a progressive Christian

My atheist father and agnostic brother treat me with more respect for my beliefs than my fundamentalist sister. And I treat them with more respect than she does too. Respect breeds respect.

[HuckleB]

9. I think most atheists can get along with Christians...

the real question is whether or not enough Christians can leave well enough alone and allow themselves to get along with atheists.

[Orrex]

10. Speaking for this atheist

I don't care what anyone believes unless they start a discussion with me about it, it harms someone else, or they try to enact their beliefs as legislative policy.

Also, I find it logically offensive when someone makes insupportable claims based on faith, such as "Jimmy's mom prayed to St. Whoever, and Jimmy's illness was cured," so I'm apt to comment on it.

That's not unique to me or to atheists in general; if I said, in theologically mixed company, that this shitty weather proves that God doesn't exist (a claim at least as well supported as Jimmy's miracle cure), then I'm confident that someone will "go after" me for having a differing view.

The question isn't why do atheists "go after others with differing views" so much as it's "why are atheists singled out for going after others with differing views?"

[Chovexani]

61. There are obnoxious fundies in every group

And it's the squeaky wheels that get the grease.

I'm a Pagan and I can get along with anyone of any persuasion as long as they don't try to cram their worldview down my throat. It helps that my path is strongly against proselytizing.

[SidDithers]

11. Reverse your question...

Can't Christians get along with Athiests?

It's been my experience that it's Athiests who are more tolerant of Christians, than the reverse.

Sid

[youthere]

62. you took the words out of my mouth...

I rarely meet atheists who "don't play well with others". We Christians can't even get along amongst ourselves.

[JerseygirlCT]

91. Just seems to be less the case here -m

I've not seen any threads from Christians bashing non-believers. The attitude I see here is basically live and let live.

I continue to read other threads, however, quite disrespectful toward believers. As if it's necessary to put down someone else's belief in order to legitimize one's own.

I don't understand why that's needed. There's absolutely no reason we can't all get along. A little civility goes a long way.

[trotsky]

100. Hmmm

I've not seen any threads from Christians bashing non-believers.

Well then, you just posted to your first.

[JerseygirlCT]

102. Would you be so kind as to explain how anything I said

could possibly be considered "bashing"?

I'm truly puzzled.

[trotsky]

103. Not you, the OP.

You said you've never seen an atheist-bashing thread. I said you just posted in one.

[JerseygirlCT]

105. OK, thanks

I guess I'm still a bit in the dark, though.

The OP says:

"I mean, just because you do or don't believe in God doesn't mean you should go after others with differing views.

That's what Republicans do."

That's bashing? I'm talking more about comments disparaging the actual beliefs of others -- along the lines of how can you believe such stupid fairy tales, etc.

I'm not in the least interested in pushing my beliefs on anyone else. But I'm not sure why I should particularly need to defend them, either, you know? I don't represent every Christian ever born. I would think my presence at DU would indicate that I'm not in sync with those such as Falwell. I understand why athiests would choose to believe as they do. I feel no compulsion to change or to attack that. I just believe differently.

Is there a problem with that?

[trotsky]

112. It's the broad brush that's being applied.

"Can't atheists get along with Christians?"

Implying that atheists are the ones causing religious strife. And no qualifier, meaning that ALL atheists do it.

[JerseygirlCT]

116. Ah, gotcha

ok, that makes sense. Those broad brushes always make a mess.

Thanks!

[July]

127. I would distinguish between putting down the belief and putting down the

believer and his/her right to believe.

If an atheist has come to the conclusion that Christianity (or any other religion, or all religions) doesn't make sense to him, that's not bashing Christians, in my view. As long as the atheist doesn't say that Christians have no right to believe what they want to believe, he's not bashing them. He may be "bashing" (I prefer to say criticizing, since "bashing" seems to imply malice or hostility)Christianity, but is not necessarily bashing Christians.

[Solly Mack]

12. Republicans also constantly play the victim while they're

imposing their views on others....Some Christians do that too.
(ah, the double-edged sword...don't leave home without it)


I get along with the Christians that don't attempt to impose their religion on others.

[progressivebydesign]

13. Only if the Christians leave me alone!!

Last time I checked, the athiests were not trying to evangelize in my daughter's public school, on my doorstep, in politics, on tv, EVERYWHERE. If they just leave us alone, I'd get along with them just fine!

[JRob]

18. BACK ! ! ! I say, BACK, BACK ! ! !

Unfortunately, it's just like any major corp., they need to advertise and recruit new consumers, feed the kitty... Of course without any taxes and questionable regulation (in terms of politics).

[arwalden]

120. Thank You!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. I'm agnostic and get along just fine with my Christian wife.

June 1 was our 24th anniversary (not counting the 2 years we "lived in sin"), though she has just abandoned Catholicism in favor of UU.

[Pacifist Patriot]

20. Nudging in here for a minute.

To welcome your wife to my faith family. I hope she finds it as fulfilling and enriching as I have. It's not easy. You have to work for it as a UU.

[Orrex]

68. A couple of years ago

I attended a Catholic wedding and a UU wedding within a few weeks of each other; the differences between them were astonishing.

The entire Catholic mass was about the horrors of human guilt and our unworthiness of redemption, culminating in the bride's public Self-Humiliation Before The Virgin. Really, it was a sickening spectacle.

The UU service, in contrast, was extraordinarily positive, life-affirming, and uplifting. The minister spoke warmly of the couple's future happiness, the joy of having their friends share in the ceremony, and the virtue of mutual respect and love. The couple wasn't even UU, but they agreed to have a religious ceremony to satisfy the expectations of their families.

I'm glad to have witnessed the stark contrast between them, even though I'm confident that they don't represent all Catholic and UU services, respectively. I am as non-spiritual as anyone I've ever met, but if I needed that sort of community in my life, I'd seek a UU congregation before subjecting myself to Catholicism.

[JRob]

24. Have kids? How'd you deal with that issue?

That's were my wifes "faith" and my beliefs (or ideas) about spiritualism conflict...

I've said for years (to her) that I respect the "true philosophy" of Christ but despise the organizations that have been built in his name and all the mind fucking that seems hopelessly rooted in these institutions.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. We decided not to have kids.

She has a now grown adopted daughter from a previous marriage. But, the daughter stayed with ex-husband.

She went through the whole system of Catholic School and considered herself Catholic up until recently. She never bought into to whole Catholic dogma but attended Mass regularly. She had to go through the whole rigamarole of dispenstation to get the divorce and again to have our marriage recognized by the Church.

I abandoned Catholicism at about age 12 because I just couldn't believe it.

I too, respect the teachings of Christ when not distorted by the apostles and all the rest of the guys who transformed his simple message of love into the horror it now is.

I assume your question has to do with raising the kids in a religion, or not. Not being a parent myself, I'm reluctant to give advice, but egomaniacal enough to do so. How about this: Even if your wife insists that the kids go to Church, parochial school, etc, consider that her side of the disagreement. Your side is to influence your kids with your beliefs. If you and the wife can agree on that, I think that it might work. And, assuming that you were raised in some sort of religion, remember that you managed to escape the mind-fucking, and your kids may too.

"When ritual arises, the Tao is absent." Lao-tse.

[JRob]

46. Actually I was NOT indoctrinated into any religion...

My mother, who was sent to Catholic boarding school had no motivation to do "that" to my sister and I...

I have no problem with spirituality and have a lot of respect for a number of the profits that have inspired the various religions. Just not the religious organizations.

My thing with the kids is that we teach ALL religions from a philosophical and cultural perspective or none at all... My wife still maintains that something like Sunday School is benign!

In my opinion (and my wife agrees, now) I turned out to act more "Christian" than most Christian's we know... No Sunday School.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. I agree. But...

My wife also thinks that I, the agnostic, is much more "Christian" than most Christians she knows. However, you also have a marriage to consider. Surely, there is some sort of compromise you can work out.

When my wife wanted to "sanctify" our marriage by getting a dispensation, I agreed, even tho' I thought it a load of crap.

Throughout our marriage I had to keep in mind, that it was the religion I loathed, not her. Apparantly you married her despite her beliefs, and she married you, despite yours. It took time, but we both learned that you get whole package, not just the parts you favor.

[JRob]

63. granted nt

[MissB]

15. I see you have your broad brush out this morning.

Your question is unnecessarily divisive.

[JRob]

17. Sure, as soon as they change they're platform of exclusivity and start

acting in the manner consistent with their talk...

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

45. Hey Beet,

can you pm your original unedited post to me?
Pretty please???

[Modem Butterfly]

129. No, this is the dumbest fucking thing you ever heard

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3777974&mesg_id=3803437&page=

Read it and be enlightened as to the nature of your fuckassitude.

:evilgrin:

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. I think a better question might be.

Why can't everyone get along with everyone else?

[JRob]

26. Look what the highly vocal, high profile representatives of your faith...

on the world stage say and do...

Therein lays the answer to your question.

[Pacifist Patriot]

30. Rev. Sinkford?

http://www.uua.org/president/

Or would that be Clara Barton, Susan B. Anthony, Clarence Darrow, Albert Schweitzer....?

[JRob]

35. I must've missed it when they made the talk show circuit recently

[Pacifist Patriot]

59. Sorry, but you lost me.

Awhile ago, actually.

[JRob]

64. pretty typical... nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

67. Are you always cryptically insulting?

You suggested that I "look what the highly vocal, high profile representatives of your faith on the world stage say and do...Therein lays the answer to your question."

Since I am a Unitarian Universalist the highest profile representative of my faith would be the president of the UUA, Rev. Sinkford. The man who was arrested recently for protesting the Sudanese genocide outside the embassy in Washington. If I look at the high vocal, high profile representatives of my faith throughout history, I have some pretty damned good company.

Quit acting like a passive aggressive clue dropper and say what you want to say.

[JRob]

70. let's sum up "Sorry, but you lost me. Awhile ago, actually." was your...

sarcastic comment before this last post of mine. Before that you throw "Clara Barton, Susan B. Anthony, Clarence Darrow, Albert Schweitzer" at me when you know damn well that my reference to "the highly vocal, high profile representatives of your faith" was regarding the current icons of American Christianity like Falwell, Dobson, Buchanan etc... you know the kind of guys that support politicians like Frist and Delay.

It's your religion, do the housekeeping. What's insulting is this notion by Christians that non-Christians should care outside of respecting your right to believe whatever you want. Sorry, but Rev. Sinkford is not the face of Christianity in America these other idiots are.

So please don't insult me for my general opinion of most Christians.

In my opinion, if Christ did come back there'd be hell to pay and not by the non-believers...

[Pacifist Patriot]

74. No it wasn't a sarcastic comment.

You lost me because I am not Christian. Unitarian Universalism is NOT a Christian denomination it is a completely different faith. Falwell, Dobson, Buchanan and the ilk are constantly attacking my faith, not representing it.

So don't insult me because of your ignorance. I provided you a link so you could see exactly what I was talking about. It isn't my fault you failed to read it.

[JRob]

78. Initially, you're the one who personally "insulted" in our exchange...

insinuation in post #59, again in #67 and finally in #74 "So don't insult me because of your ignorance"

Assuming that I did not look at the link you provided, yet another veiled insult "I provided you a link so you could see exactly what I was talking about. It isn't my fault you failed to read it."

On that site {your link) they state "Unitarian Universalist Christians have understood Jesus as a savior because he was a God-filled human being" and "In most of our congregations, our children learn Bible stories as a part of their church school curricula". Also in the FAQs is the following:

"Are Unitarian Universalists Christian?

Yes and no.

Yes, some Unitarian Universalists are Christian. Personal encounter with the spirit of Jesus as the christ richly informs their religious lives.

No, Unitarian Universalists are not Christian, if by Christian you mean those who think that acceptance of any creedal belief whatsoever is necessary for salvation. Unitarian Universalist Christians are considered heretics by those orthodox Christians who claim none but Christians are "saved." (Fortunately, not all the orthodox make that claim.)

Yes, Unitarian Universalists are Christian in the sense that both Unitarian and Universalist history are part of Christian history. Our core principles and practices were first articulated and established by liberal Christians.

Some Unitarian Universalists are not Christian. For though they may acknowledge the Christian history of our faith, Christian stories and symbols are no longer primary for them. They draw their personal faith from many sources: nature, intuition, other cultures, science, civil liberation movements, and so on."

I will grant that UU seems to back away from the absurdness of john 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." or John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." and It seems that the UU has certainly attempted to create a more intelligent and moderate plateform...

But how is this NOT a Christians organization?

You may not be a Christian " I am not Christian" post #74, but "Unitarian Universalism is NOT a Christian denomination it is a completely different faith" also post #74 appears not to be an accurate statement.

So I have to stick with my answer (reply #26) to your question "I think a better question might be. Why can't everyone get along with everyone else?" (reply #22) which basically says that most Christians and their "highly vocal, high profile representatives" are the reason.

[Pacifist Patriot]

80. *sigh* okay, whatever.

I agree that high profile fundamentalist Christians give ample evidence of why everyone can't get along, but lumping me with them was your ignorant mistake, not mine.

Unitarian Universalism is NOT a Christian denomination. There may be UUs who also consider themselves Christian, but the council of Christian churches would never consider the UUA for admission. To insinuate that we would be remotely like Falwell and his ilk is just preposterous.

Continuing to assert that I am "typical" and "Christian" gave me the distinct impression that you did not look at the link. My apologies for making that mistake.

[JRob]

81. My point is that Religion (in most cases) is the problem...

The UU (with which I was previously unfamiliar) seems to have taken steps to be more "progressive" and understanding of the fact the people are evolving. Whereas my general belief about most religion is that they seek to oppress true thought and spirituality to benefit there numbers and agenda.

As far as "Unitarian Universalism is NOT a Christian denomination" that is not clear from viewing the site. I know that there are some Christian organizations that have attempted to distance themselves from Bush and the RW religions movement and I applaud that wholeheartedly.

My response to you was because of what I perceived as sarcasm with the "you lost me..." comment. My interpretation of the UU was "another Christian splinter group with a leg on both sides of the fence..."

My feeling is that Christians need to police their Christian spokes people and the politicians that are promoting their agenda. Which is anything but "Christian". Having not gotten the gist of your point on UU, I took your "lost me" comment as typical issue dodging and belittlement... Maybe we could have both been more clear.

[Pacifist Patriot]

83. Certainly we could have both been more clear.

I have a UU religious symbol as my avatar so I assumed it was obvious that I was not a Christian. Your "typical" comment was definitely snarky and lumping me in a category to which I definitely do not belong. I apologize for taking offense but I think you can understand why anyone would be offended by being connected with the idea that Falwell, Dobson, et. al. represent their faith, Christian or not.

I'm sorry if you found the UUA site unclear. While Unitarianism and Universalism once were considered Christian denominations it has been quite awhile since they were acknowledged as such. By either UUs or mainstream Christians.

We both learned something.

Personally, I do not believe religion is the problem. Personal agendas propagated in the name of religion are the problem.

[JerseygirlCT]

92. Do you think you ought to be rewarded and congratulated

for your stereotyping?

I thought that was the specialty of the GOP, not us.

Do a little research perhaps, and learn a little more about both Christianity in general and more specifically about the UU church.

The "general opinion" you seem so proud of is simply ignorance, I'm afraid.

[johnaries]

23. It's the Christians going after the atheists, not the other way around.

Atheists just don't want their children being indoctrinated at school or by the government into Christian beliefs. Proselytizing is a part of Christian doctrine, not the Atheist's.

I'm neither Christian nor Atheist, btw. But I'm tired of the Christian indoctrination, too.

[JRob]

27. here, here! nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

31. Me too.

[longship]

25. The getting along...

is all one sided. I agree.

I've been a professed atheist for over 40 years.

Most atheists I've known have no problems with other people being religious. IMHO atheists generally don't care about such things. It's only when religious people insist on thrusting their views into other domains that we have problems.

Atheists do not do that. We don't go door-to-door nagging people to believe like us. And all we ask of government is that it remain neutral on the subject. The best way to accomplish this is for government to

make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

[Merope215]

82. Well said

I'm religious, but I couldn't care less whether or not anyone else is, as long as they don't use their faith or lack thereof to think they can treat people like scum with impunity.

Every group has its fundy assholes, but the Christian ones are much louder than the others, at least in this country. I find it obnoxious and offensive when I get preached at, or proselytized to, or when the government starts trying to favor religion at other people's expense. I can't imagine what it would be like if one weren't Christian.

Anyway, well-worded post, and I agree with you 100%.

[trotsky]

134. Longship, your post is proof

that even the ugliest thread can produce a beautiful flower. Well said.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

28. Can't Christians get along with Christians?

For example, many fundamentalists and evangelicals don't consider Catholics to be Christians, labeling them pagans because of what they term "Mary worship." The schisms between Christians are older and fiercer.

I get along fine with everyone, but anyone who attempts to impose religious restrictions on my Constitutional freedoms gets gone after.

[Modem Butterfly]

29. Tell it to the Xians

Every atheist I've ever known has had a "live and let live" attitude towards different religions. I wish I could say the same for the Xians.

[DearAbby]

32. When Christians will stay out of my face and stop legislating laws based

on their religious moral dogma..then ask me this again. I am aware that most Christians are not like that, but there are a lot that are, and they seem to be in control, and are pushing it to the hilt. When I have to hear "What a friend we have in Jesus" while I am squeezing a tomato at the supermarket...its gone too far.

[BiggJawn]

33. Sure we can.

Just as soon as they (the Christians) get comfy with the idea of my believing in one less god than they do.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

34. lol, is this a serious question?

I am an atheist from a family of christians who works with and is surrounded by christians. I think i get along just fine.

just because i don't believe in god doesn't mean that i go after others with differing views.

your broad brush is not working so well.

[RetroLounge]

37. Hmmm, hit and run thread...

Hmmmmmm. Just saying....

RL

[seabeyond]

38. i have gotten along with every athiest

i have met. we have a blast together. they do their thing, i do mine. i dont step on their toes, and if they step on mine, i dont care.

[Arugula Latte]

39. Hard-core Christians I just stay away from

I don't have to deal with them, luckily. The only ones in my family don't live close and I've basically phased them out (I think the feeling is mutual).

I have some very liberal, tolerant Christian friends and that is fine.

[Chopin]

41. Can Christians get along with other Christians is a better question.

Just look at the past 2000 years of European history. WWI and WWII anyone?

[Deep13]

42. Sure, ...

as long as we talk about something else. Alternatively, if we can have a scholarly discussion without recrimination or trying to convert each other, that's all right too.

The problem is that both Christianity and atheism assume a sort of exclusivity. That is, it is a fundamental tenent of Christianity that only Christians are right and that, therefore, no one else is. Likewise, atheism assumes there is objective fact that is true for everyone. By being in either of these groups, one implies that the other and all other religious views are wrong and not just in the details either.

[Fleshdancer]

43. I get along with Christians all the time

Most of us do in my opinion. However, I will not back down from a debate started by someone else...whether they are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever. There's a difference between "going after others" and defending your own beliefs.

There will always be a group of people from every faith or non-faith who bash the beliefs of others but to paint the entire group of doing this is, well, kinda like what a lot of so called Christian Republicans do to Muslims and Atheists. No one is completely innocent here.

[beam me up scottie]

44. I can, except of course for the ones that whine all the time

about how we can't get along with them or that we persecute them or hate them or any of their other recurring oppression fantasies.

Republicans do that all the time, just ask the christian king wanna-be.

[beam me up scottie]

48. THANK YOU to all of the believers who saw through this anal retentive

piece of flamebait and acknowledged that we are your family, friends and allies.

[leftofthedial]

49. I can get along with anyone except a bushturd

as long as they keep their superstitious bullshit to themselves

[Kazak]

51. Sure...

why not?

[Terran]

53. Turn the question around and then it will be applicable to reality.

In case you hadn't noticed, Christians (in general) are the ones who hate and persecute atheists, not the other way around as you imply.

[luvLLB]

54. I can get along with Christians, but some have a problem getting

along with me.

[Misunderestimator]

55. Can't blacks get along with whites? Can't gays get along with straights?

Can't women get along with men? Can't dogs get along with cats? Can't Christians get along with Muslims? :eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

56. hmmm

I don't see laws prohibiting Christians from holding jobs in politics, but there are quite a few places that forbid Atheists from holding public office.

[usregimechange]

57. Mature Christians and mature atheists can.

[fshrink]

60. Atheists never burned anyone.

Or organized mass wars and massacres. Or forced people to do or not do a number of things. Or threatened people, including children, with all kind of horrible punishments. Or to not get along with anyone. On the other hand, atheists have put up with such terrorism for thousands of years and continue to do so. So, the answer to your question is: yes they can.

[RPM]

65. Proseltyzing Athiests Don't show up on my doorstep weekly

Thats why i like athiests and jews; christians and their constant prosetlyzing and preaching can get bent as far as I am concerned.

[Modem Butterfly]

66. It'd be cool if they did, though

That I would like to see.

Reminds me of a joke: What do you get when you cross a Hell's Angel with a Jehovah's Witness?

Someone who knocks on your door at 8 AM and tells YOU to fuck off.

[Zhade]

69. Oh, yeah, because you Christians are SOOOOOO persecuted.

Give me a fucking break - more "do you still beat your wife" bullshit 'bridge-building'.

A lot of us DON'T go after people for believing things we don't, but thanks for the broad-brush intimation that all atheists want to do is attack Christians.

I have Christian friends, genius.

[Qanisqineq]

71. I am sure you meant "can't atheists and Christians get along?"

I understood your meaning and I won't sit here and belittle you just because I am some anonymous person. (Sorry, but I truly hate the constant attacks that go on when the wording isn't always the best.)

I believe we can get along. I am atheist/agnostic. I'm a little confused on which I am some days. :D Most of the people I know are Christians. They may send me a few mushy emails about friends and have something about "Jesus loves us all", but I don't let it bother me. I know they are not trying to convert me. They are sending along the sentiment of the rest of the email. I think both Christians and atheists are a little too sensitive about things. We need to let more things just roll off our backs and not take them so personally.

Edit: but you can belittle me for not being able to spell the word "and" :P

[NMMNG]

72. I get along fine with most Christians

My mother and sister are devout Christians, but not fundamentalists. My best friend Paula is a Christian, although she rarely goes to church. My other best friend, Mike, is a theist but despises organized religion. We all get along because we respect each others' beliefs and don't push them on each other.

Where I have a problem is with the rabid evangelicals who want to proselytize and not take "no" for an answer, and won't respect my right to not believe. I am polite at first, but if they are rude to me I will give them a firm to slightly rude reply and stalk off.

[Swamp Rat]

73. FuriousMNDem, where did you go?

[YankeyMCC]

75. Try this

Get two people, one xian and one atheist.

Bring them one at a time into a room full of, randomly selected, strangers.

Have each announce what they are - xian or atheist.

Watch the reaction.

Then come talk about who's persecuting who.

[bleedingheart]

77. Why not?

[earth mom]

79. Your question should be-Why can't Christians get along with Atheists?

I think you are seeing a knee jerk reaction from people who are sick and tired of being preached to everywhere they turn. I've never seen an atheist or agnostic get in someones face or even mention their beliefs in the way that Christians speak of God or Jesus 24/7. It's God Bless this or that or some other kind of Christian talk and a lot of people just don't want to hear it and yes, are lashing out about it.

If you want harmony, it's the Christians who need to be quiet and stop proselytizing to everyone everywhere. A persons faith or non faith is a personal private choice-if we all kept it personal and private, this country would be better off. Maybe there should be a law that religious beliefs aren't allowed to be discussed in public places. That might solve much of the problem. :shrug:

[Protagoras]

84. Can't Vampires get along with people who try and drive

stakes through their heart?

Oh that's not a very good analogy is it :P

[DistressedAmerican]

85. I'm An Atheist And I Get Along With Christians That DO NOT FORCE THEIR

views on me. Those that do, I attack without mercy. Which, I firmly believe is exactly what they deserve!!!

You should really be complaining to those fundies that have so sensitized non-christians that they feel the need to lash out (in self defense). They are the ones giving Christianity a bad name and therefore making it an object of ridicule!

Redirect your hurt fellings to those that have created the tension not those of us that respond to the endless attacks on non-Christians!

[blondeatlast]

86. Yes, my husband is an atheist. We just celebrated 9 years.

We even discuss it occasionally.

[JerseygirlCT]

93. LOL closing in on 19 here. Same story. nt

[SmokingJacket]

87. I certainly do.

My Christian friends and I like to probe the reasons for our differences, while enjoying what we have in common (interest in ethics and morality, for one).

While I dislike the Fristians, religion has never gotten in the way of personal friendships.

Now, politics, on the other hand, or taste in music....

[expatriate]

88. I'm an atheist - or more accurately, I've been called

an "apathist". I don't care enough about atheism to be particularly vocal about it, and I'm not one of those atheists who refuses to accept or send out a Christmas card or put a wreath on the door. I once tried to be an Episcopalian, but couldn't do the mental gymnastics to achieve the rationalization necessary to believe. I just don't care about being religious.

That said, it doesn't bother me what anyone believes until they begin to try to foist it on me. A person can believe in Bob The Raingod for all I care, as long as they enjoy their religion on their own and don't get determined to share it with me. Basically, I'm not interested in many facets of people's lives - their toilet habits, their sexual fantasies, their stock portfolios, their crabgrass problems and their religion are among the topics I can honestly do without.

This is not to say that I'll argue with them if they decide to proselytize to me. More likely I'll come up with some distraction (yelling "hey, don't flick ashes in that goldfish bowl!" is good for removing oneself to the other side of the room at a party) and politely avoid that person afterward. There is no point to atheists and religious people arguing with each other. The only thing that works is mutual respect and acceptance - the minute one side tries to convert the other side, all hope of real cooperation is lost. So I just avoid the subject.

[LiberallyInclined]

90. to some christians- telling them that you're an athiest is like an insult-

it seems like they feel put off- like you're calling them stupid for their faith...it can also be kind of like a bunch of housewives who have to contend with the hot single woman who moved into the neighborhood- you represent a percieved threat to the sanctity of their own little world.

[China_cat]

94. Excuse Me??????

Have you ever had atheists accost you in the street telling you you're going to be dead a long time? Had them come to your door and refuse to leave until you read the humanist manifesto with them?

That's such bullshit...atheists going after christians. We defend ourselves when we must but we would prefer that those who are thusly deluded just keep it to themselves instead of trying to drag us into their delusions with them.

Another example of 'if we can't have it all our way, we'll whine about how persecuted we are'. Pound those nails harder...your god needs martyrs.

[Bluebear]

95. Atheists don't tell me who made Adam & Eve, not Steve

Atheists don't come pounding at my door with tracts. I don't see a Fundamentalist Atheist voting guide being distributed! Did you mean to frame the question the way it sounds? :)

[DistressedAmerican]

96. OK, Its Time I Just Called BULLSHIT On This Whole Thread.

What insulting nonsense.

Smells WAY off to me!

What EXACTLY is your agena? Are you Really feeling persecuted by athiests?

Give me a single cogent example or take this religious flamebait and drown it!

[Bouncy Ball]

97. Geez, of course they can!

Some of my best friends are atheists and agnostics. We get along like gangbusters!

I don't even understand them not getting along, but then I'm not dogmatic and neither are my friends.

[GliderGuider]

98. This seems a peculiarly American obsession

One would think that with only 2% of your population self-identifying as atheists (from a recent AP poll) you wouldn't have much to worry about from them. I suspect you have more to worry about from the more "enthusiastic" adherents of other Christian denominations. To accuse atheists in general of abusing Christians strikes me as a crass, insidious and calculated form of scapegoating. Citizens of most other Western countries couldn't give a tinker's damn what religion anyone else is or isn't. I don't know why Americans suddenly care so much.

My family has four consecutive generations of atheists, and aside from mild expressions of amusement we try our best not to abuse the beliefs of our less enlightened friends :-) Hell, my first wife followed seven different religions over the course of her life, and we got along just fine - for a while, anyway...

[NMMNG]

109. Actually, only about 0.4% of America is Atheist

At least according to this site

http://www.teachingaboutreligion.org/Demographics/map_demographics.htm#The%20Big%20Picture

[DanCa]

99. Golden Rule

I hope that the next line is not offensive but I know aethist (some on this board) that act more christian than those "christians" that I attend church with. I really try to apply the golden rule when dealling with people treat people they way you want to be treated and while i may make mistake here and there but I think am fairly tolerant to others.

[Zenlitened]

101. I didn't hate religionists until religionists made a POLICY of hating me.

So I'd say the ball is in their court for now.

[Pockets]

104. ALL real Christians must believe everyone else is going to Hell

The Bible dictates that non-believers will go to Hell. If a Christian claims otherwise, they are not being honest, or don't understand the Bible. Maybe I have it wrong?

[Pithlet]

106. Yeah. Us atheists are not interested in getting along with anyone

We're all like that. Nice broad brush you got there.

[Pithlet]

107. BTW, where are you FuriousMNDem?

Decided to drop that little stink bomb and run?

[DistressedAmerican]

108. This Thread Was Pure Bullshit From The Get Go!

No wonder the OP is MIA!

[kodi]

110. not until deists stop slamming their minds into the faces of unbelievers

i have no problems with the religions, but i have a severe problem with deists who have only the most superfical understanding of their own religion and what it is supposed to bring to one's life yet insist that they share their ignorant opinions with others.

its like i am dealing with the blind whenever i talk to them. hell, i had to explain to a group of christians at work one day the beauty of the metaphorical imagry behind the resurrection of jesus and how it was related to earlier faiths and the prerennial rites of spring. you should have seen their faces when i told them that they had to get past their cultural image of god to get to god.

[ima_sinnic]

111. I have absolutely no idea what the religious beliefs of most of

my friends and co-workers are. I think they're mostly just non-religious. With ONE exception (betcha can't guess): those who are Christian do let it be known in various ways. Like if I am describing a problem in my life, the person offers to pray for me. Actually, I am usually touched by this--whatever rocks their boat. Only one ever tried to get me to "take Jesus as my savior" and go to church with her. Once we got past that hurdle we have gotten along fine and it has never come up again.

[Bridget Burke]

113. Hit & run Divisive thread!

As an Atheist/Agnostic, I'm quite able to get along with people of many faiths. Some take things too far, but can defend myself. Some Atheists also take it too far--mostly the ones who are trying to shake off a Fundamentalist background.

There are NO Atheist Republicans. If there are, they lie a lot. And since when is something a good idea because "that's what Republicans do"?

[leesa]

114. Right. Except the Fundy Christians who are in charge now would just as

soon incarcerate me or kill me for being an atheist. Non-believers are well served to keep their distance from people who are into judging others based on perceived beliefs from THEIR particular book. My christian brother said he wished we were all shipped off to an island because he hates us so (liberals and agnostics)

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

117. When someone posts a divisive thread & disappears....

It's usually considered troll-like behavior. There was no plea for tolerance in the Original Post.

This is a large site & you'll find many different opinions here. Some of our Atheists are Fundamentalist Atheists--so they're especially annoying. I'm not a believer but have studied myth, legend & comparative religion. As a former Catholic, I've also defended my (former) faith from attacks by the ignorant; it has many faults, but some of the Catholic-haters use arguments that were old when Ian Paisley was young.

Your style is overly verbose & your attack is too diffuse to be effective. And as a "Christian" you certainly use some foul language.

[Modem Butterfly]

125. What on earth is a fundamentalist atheist?

Really, that's just bizarre.

[trotsky]

130. Like a militant atheist,

only they don't wear camo.

[Modem Butterfly]

131. Speaking of which, are you going to tonight's Evil Atheist Meeting?

I'm supposed to bring lemon bars, I think Beam Me Up Scottie is bringing Fluffer Nutters and Hi-C.

[trotsky]

135. Yes, I'm bringing crackers...

that I baked myself using the ground-up bones of the babies we killed last week as flour. Tasty!

[Modem Butterfly]

138. Cool! My partner is doing a little presentation on...

...subverting Boyscouts through the teaching of Evolution in the public schools. Do you need a ride? We've got plenty of room on the broom.

[beam me up scottie]

146. Good question.

That was the reichwing fundie talking point term of the day last Monday, I believe.
Today it's "Discrimination against people of faith", it's a repeat but worth listing twice.
Didn't you check your Zell Miller term of the day calendar?

[Modem Butterfly]

148. The Zell Miller term of the day is "Fuckass"

It's defined as an ordinary curse word used by people of faith in a loving manner to describe people they disagree with.

[beam me up scottie]

149. Oh, thanks! I'm one of them there

rich people that never heard those words before! :evilgrin:

[trotsky]

118. Just a tiny bit of knowledge for you.

Atheists did not invent the terms "Xian" or "Xtian" just to annoy you.

http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/xmasabbr.asp

Adherents of your very own religion used X as a shorthand device in the religion's infancy. Go figure!

The rest of your profanity-laden personal attack on atheists as a group, well, I'll just let that stand on its own merits, whatever they may be.

[Modem Butterfly]

126. Praise Jesus Hidden Stillness is speaking in tongues!

Hallelujah!

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Modem Butterfly]

147. Cool! It noticed me!

I was starting to think Hidden Stillness was some sort of auto-responder.

If you rich people have never heard of the ordinary curse word "fuckass," etc., it is not my fault.

ROFLMAOPIMP! Oh, please, stop it! Fuckass is an ordinary curse word? What 1970's prison movie did YOU grow up in?

By the way, Oh Maker of Enforced Conformity, Modem Butterfly, you had to change the title of your post from Praise Jesus HE'S Speaking in Tongues, I suppose meaning me. But I'm not a male, you bigot.

Actually I didn't want Trotsky to think my post was directed at him. Looks like you need to re-boot Windows for Telepaths. Fuckass.

:evilgrin:

And BTW, I don't think being a male is a bad thing. Lots of people I like are male. Trotsky's a male. My father is a male. So's my brother. There's nothing wrong with being a male.

But being a foul-mouthed psychotic fuckass troll monkey? Yeah, there's something wrong with that.

[beam me up scottie]

150. *snort* Too bad

Stillness couldn't have stayed hidden.
It seems rather loud for stillness, doesn't it?

[Modem Butterfly]

151. I'll always remember him fondly...

As a fuckass, if not a DUer...

[beam me up scottie]

154. GASP!

She insulted CANADIANS!!!

Oh the HUMANITY!!!

[trotsky]

155. I love obsenities, goddammit.

I just don't think it's very nice of you to use them specifically to refer to atheists, and then wonder why we can't get along with you loving holy Christians.

[Modem Butterfly]

124. Here's a great example of why Xians can't get along with atheists

Liberal Christians on this website do not like to declare ourselves, intimidated by the neverending venom of the privileged, a hatred so psychotically delusional that it does not even make a distinction between the ordinary left-wing Christian, and the most demonic neo-con "fundamentalist."

Papa Tooney, we got a looney.

never taunt you with the invented abusive word "xtians" rather than just using the real word,

Actually, the use of X to stand for Christ is quite old and very correct, having been started by the church and having only recently been dropped by most Xians.

Then of course we have the obligatory self-congratulating Canadian, pretending to believe all this shit just to be able to be superior to it. (Also, please don't now claim that I have "oppressed" you too; don't jump at every opportunity.)

Wow. "They'll know we're Xians by our love"

you are not even responding to the message of this person you now love to persecute (as a group, like all buttfucks who haven't got the guts to stand alone, as the original poster had the guts to do; and as for not answering you now--geez, Einstein, why would anyone respond to the cruelty of you insensitive blocks of ice, with no hope of peace?).

Geez, someone who uses the term "buttfuck" as a collective derrogatory term. Now THAT'S balls!

This might have been an interesting discussion for all Democrats to get together and learn from; it can't now.

I, for one, am grateful for the opportunity to not have wasted my time dialoging with someone who says I enjoy being persecuted, should just get over it, and calls me "fuckass" to boot. Yeah, I don't think I've missed out on much there.

The original poster was right: you do attack and slander us, just because we exist, and are not you.

No, just brillant thinkers like yourself.

[arwalden]

153. (Applause!)

:applause::applause::applause::applause:
:applause::applause::applause::applause:

[Modem Butterfly]

157. Thank-you, thank-you

Applause is welcome, cash is better!

:evilgrin:

[beam me up scottie]

132. Why has this person's post not been deleted?

You really should seek professional help to deal with that rage, it's not healthy.

"Study this thread, and learn how to deal with archcon Republican gang-attackers and abusers; same thing here, with even atheists pretending to be Christians, just so they can attack Christians and praise atheists. Stupid. Then of course we have the obligatory self-congratulating Canadian, pretending to believe all this shit just to be able to be superior to it. (Also, please don't now claim that I have "oppressed" you too; don't jump at every opportunity.)"

Atheists pretending to be christians?

"There has been some really chilling hate on this website lately, condoned by the "moderators"--especially the infuriating attacks on dead, raped white women, for "daring" to be exploited by the male media; so the fuckasses don't attack the media and police for ignoring black, poor, etc., victims, but instead grab the opportunity to slash at white women."


So DU'ers and the mods are attacking dead raped white women now?
And you think we are the ones with problems?

[Modem Butterfly]

139. It's be nice to fuckasses week in GD

ROFLMAO!

God, I know it's homophobic, but the term "fuckass" as an insult just keeps cracking my godless atheist ass UP!

[beam me up scottie]

144. Oh! That explains the "DO NOT FEED THE

LUNATICS" sign in the lobby.

Oh Nurse Ratchett!!! We have one of your patients here...

[July]

136. How many paragraphs of vitriol to deplore

"the neverending venom of the privileged"? Who are those "privileged," by the way?

You are severely lacking perspective. Try announcing yourself as an atheist somewhere other than a liberal discussion forum, then get back to us.

Most of us are enjoying this discussion, even if it appears that the OP was flamebait. If it riles you so much, why not skip it?

[jonnyblitz]

137. seems like its the Christians who are WHINING about opression

not the atheists and you all have been running everything for fucking YEARS. its like white folks whining about being oppressed by blacks.

[Misunderestimator]

142. Ah yes... DU is chock-full of chilling hate... Welcome to DU.

:hi:

I was dismayed by the number of times you cast the blanket aspersion of "assholes" (and "buttfucks") upon all us atheists, so, I must admit, I couldn't make it through your entire post. I wonder about someone who criticizes ugliness and then spews such offensive words in response.

[DistressedAmerican]

143. Another Bullshit Hit And Run?

re:puke:

[RebelOne]

119. I am an atheist and I have no problem with Christians.

Just so they don't try to shove their religion on my face.

[TWiley]

121. Evangelical Christianity is compatible with nothing

but itself. Everything that is NOT them is evil, hellbound, and must be destroyed.

It is the fucked up Christians in this world that bring so much misery. They cannot get along with anyone, not even their own type.

[jonnyblitz]

122. I always find it amusing when a bullying majority religion

thinks its the minority group (atheists) they having been tormenting and bullying around for DECADES who are the ones at fault and have the problem. YOU are the ones that believe all that crazy fucking SHIT!! UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE. :crazy: :puke:

[arwalden]

123. Kind Of LIke When The Queers Have Had Enough From The Pope...

...and they decide to fight back. Suddenly everyone is accused of being "anti-Catholic" and that every Catholic everywhere is being bashed and persecuted. :eyes:

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pockets]

133. Despite the OPs hit and run...

I think the topic is pertinent because most responses miss the obvious dilemma.

I would have trouble being friends with someone who thinks I'm going to hell, even if they smile as they think it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

152. Well, of course I get along with nearly all Christians I run into.

Mainly because religion never comes up as a conversation topic.

Otherwise, all bets are off.

[sniffa]

156. ah, the new engLand way

we don't discuss reLigion up here. :thumbsup:

[Moderator]

158. Locking

This is flamebait and this thread has run its course.