now that * and co. is looking at Iran too -- Who's up for building an

[KaliTracy]

earthship community in some undisclosed place totally off the grid??? http://www.earthship.org/ (we stayed in one in New Mexico --and toured their information area)


anyone have/use/live in a sustainable house? have friends or relatives who do?

Many technologies are improving, even from the time we visited...

[Bouncy Ball]

1. I just want a nice island.

A nice big one, but not big enough to get a lot of attention.

Liberals/progressives ONLY.

Man it'd be great. Everyone just minding their own business, no one freaking out, no one being a big huge hypocrite, people raising their kids right, taking care of our little environment, chucking out materialism and hyper-consumerism and just living nice happy peaceful lives.

Ahhhhhh.

[KaliTracy]

14. that sounds nice, too....

i'm sure there is one or two outthere no one cares about...

[Craig3410]

2. I will.

That way, when the all-out nuclear war starts, we'll be able to survive; when we're the only ones that live; us Democrats will finally take power again!


I call Presidency! :)

[KaliTracy]

19. now now... is that the way we elect a president? (*smile*) n/t

[silverweb]

3. Wow...

I have to read up on this!

Living in such a place would be a dream come true for me.

The only reservation I'd have would be that I know myself and I need my own space. Nonstop contact with people -- even people I like and respect -- gets on my nerves real fast and I have to get away alone somewhere.

[KaliTracy]

5. we wouldn't have to all live on top of one another.... i am one who

also needs space....

[KaliTracy]

4. here's one that's above ground (we stayed in it) -- a lot of

different ways to do it now...

[silverweb]

6. Definitely something to think about.

I suggest we keep this thread kicked, maybe start doing preliminary research, reading plans, making contact.

Short of the needing space thing, I would most definitely be interested in something like this!

[KaliTracy]

7. .

:)

[silverweb]

8. Things to consider:

(1) Land. Where? Bought or leased? How much?
(2) Materials. Availability? Cost?
(3) Building. Design? Permits?
(4) Sustenance. Gardens and/or hydroponic greenhouses? How long to establish?
(5) Income. Communal enterprises to support? Telecommuting for a paycheck (what I do now)?

My first concern would be where would it be? Then, where would the money come from to obtain the land and materials? We'd need people with expertise and experience in all phases.

I'm just a poor single mom, living pretty much from paycheck to paycheck. Would this require some kind of cash investment? Pragmatic attention to details will go a long way towards determining how well this would work.

[KaliTracy]

10. good questions. depends a lot on who is involved and how

we decide to do it -- the community in Taos New Mexico is just a lot of people who happened to build their houses instead of getting a developer to develop the land.

I've heard of some communities that work like habitat, in which all members help build each other's house.

Old earthships used to use materials like tires aluminum cans, etc. but I think some building ordinances have not been favorable to those -- like I said a lot things have changed. One good thing, after it's done, is that there are minimal heating/electric bills -- Water is generally from cistern and used several times (last time as toilet water).... There was a garden In the house we stayed at, and Bananas were growing!

[KaliTracy]

9. Dennis Weaver made a video of building his --

made in 1989





http://www.dennisweaver.com/habitat.html

article mentioning his earthship

http://www.thepetpress-la.com/articles/dennisweaver.htm


Earthkeeper Hero http://myhero.com/myhero/hero.asp?hero=d_weaver
"The Age of Oil has really exhausted its usefulness, and it has actually become a danger to our lives and our ability to survive on the planet."

[NeoTraitors]

11. I own some land in rural

Iowa. Over the past couple of years I have honestly thought about building some sort of compound there. The land is great for gardening and is so far in the boonies that we should be left alone.

This is no BS. If enough DUers were serious, we could build a large structure there and start a commune of sorts. Between the gardens, the pond for fish, and the critters to hunt, we would have plenty of sustenence.

[KaliTracy]

13. wow.... though communes are hard to sustain in themselves... but the

area/space is one of the hardest hurdles for more than 2 or 3 types of houses on one site...

[silverweb]

16. Gorgeous!

I've heard used tires can make for a well-insulated structure. So can bales of hay, properly dried out and sealed.

Lots of stuff to study here!

[CJCRANE]

12. Architectural ideas -

"Tectonic architecture": http://www.rogerdean.com/architecture/index.htm

"Places of the Soul" (self-built and eco-friendly architecture):
http://www.buildersbooksource.com/cgi-bin/booksite/20386.html

[silverweb]

15. Careful, guys...

You're getting me excited about real possibilities for this idea!

:D

First thing I'm gonna do is my homework and learn about all these things mentioned here!

For right now, I have to go get busy with the job that pays the bills. In the meantime, keep the ideas and the reference materials coming.

See ya later!

:grouphug:

[KaliTracy]

34. oh, too cool! thank you for posting these! I'm

really getting excited about this!

[Horse with no Name]

17. Things to consider

It should be in a climate friendly area.
Flagstaff, AZ would be my choice.:) It never gets too hot there.
I wouldn't necessarily call it a "commune", but a community of like-minded people.
Would definitely make community service a pre-requisite of living there.
You would basically have a community-run town. Everybody would have a say and responsibility.
Of course it wouldn't be feasible for people not to work outside of the community and you wouldn't want to get a reputation of being crackpots.
I've thought for awhile that people should start gathering to areas of the country in case of civil war or depression so they could help each other. I just don't know how feasible it is.

[KaliTracy]

18. Arizona or New Mexico -- are good -- though these types of houses

have been built in many different climates... so Iowa would work, too -- and I totally agree with your take on community service .vs commune

co-op farming perhaps among other "community" type activities.

hardest thing would be changing location/living -- though spouse and I have been talking about this for years (and he's done considerable more research on the matter, including hydroponic growing). It's the initial "upstart" -- selling off material possessions, liquidation of unnecessary items, etc.

By the way - when we went to Taos in 2001 -- most of the residents in their little neighborhood (which was mostly underground!) -- all used wind as well as solar for sources of energy, and were able to sustain computer usage...


edit: clarity/spelling

[greendog]

20. Earthships are phenomenally labor intensive

A bunch of years ago some friends hosted a party where they showed the Dennis Weaver Earthship video. This inspired one of the guys to try out earth filled tires for a terrace on his property. After ramming earth into three or four tires he switched to "plan B" and used railroad ties for the rest of his project.

This guy was big, strong, and physically fit. He said there was no way he'd try to build an entire house this way.

We came to realize that most of these fancy earthships were built by folks who were willing to hire a small army of undocumented workers to do work so miserable that no one else would want to do it.

[KaliTracy]

21. No not undocumented workers -- but yes, a lot of people are needed

to put one together -- They have other options now besides the tires (though I like the idea of used tires being used for something constructive) -- and yes -- it takes a lot of dirt in each tire to make it as effetivce as it is for building material. Weaver's house was built in 1989, I believe.

I've been in Taos (August 2001) and went through their information area and our family stayed in one of the first ones built for 2 nights (not as efficient as the newer ones, but damn cool) -- talked to the people there. They get some of their "workers" by people going and taking a week-long hand-on seminar in how to build the earthships. But, some of these people do go on to make their own. Others retrofit existing places. Others decide it's too much work, or decide to build a self-sustaining house in a different way.

[i have issues]

22. Before my divorce. I lived 91% off the grid.

We had a lovely place in central California, a few miles inland from the ocean.40 acres of rolling hills and live oak. We had goats for milk and cheese, chickens and an extensive garden.

Here are some stats...2 tracking solar arrays totaling 2000 watts,(peak)A Bergey 1500 wind turbine(1500 watts continuous, at peak,) 12 Trojan deep cycle forklift batteries all controlled by a trace 2448 inverter so we could have "normal" appliances, computers and such.The other 9% was the propane for hot water.

I mourn the loss of that property, sometimes more than the failed relationship...One HUGE lesson I learned living there,WATER is absolutely the most important issue when dropping out.(so to speak)We lost our well after the San Simeon Quake, for almost six moths we had to haul water in. It sucked. It was expensive and if the dirt road got rained on for even one day, we couldn't get the rig in. We lived on one shower a week for six months.

So in considering on where to place your dream earthship consider the water factor very seriously. With out water there is no life. I remember watching the garden slowly die. it was painful.

On to a cheerier subject: This is THE website for planning or joining an intentional community. Lots of info...
http://fic.ic.org/

I cant believe this subject came up here in GD, Ive been literally OBSESSING over how to get back onto the land, as a poor carpenter guy with very little savings. Anyone thinking of starting an IC, lemme know, I've got a little experience, a strong back and a whole mess of tools! Kerry in Seattle

[i have issues]

23. Kick to the top

NT

[ima_sinnic]

24. count me in

I will be watching this thread (can we start our own forum?) and doing research. I have a duplex in Florida I want to sell--other than that, living(?) paycheck to paycheck. I am an older woman (almost *gasp* 60!) and dream of just this situation, did it in the early 70s and have tried ever since to get back.

[KaliTracy]

25. if enough people are interested and there isn't already

a group (I didn't think to look before I posted) -- we might want to write up a proposal for starting a group. However, this hasn't gotten any recommendations, yet, so not sure how many people are really interested in the idea..

I just know that we (my family) needs to change some of our ways, though we've been talking about sustainable housing for awhile. The stuff about Iran spooked me out -- I just see this administration getting us into a whole hell of a lot of trouble, and the further I can be from the corporations/grid, the better.

Spouse started a new business a year ago -- so our savings is shot. I'd sell everything I could in a heartbeat if we had a strong plan in place. I'm gonna be 40 next month -- and it's time I started to live more intentionally.

[ima_sinnic]

27. I have recommended and bookmarked (nt)

[bloom]

26. I've worked on

a strawbale house ( a Habitat for Humanity house) and a little bit on a cob house.

I used to study passive-solar home design quite a bit. I also have some friends who are into it.


I think water availability should be considered. Good soil is important too.

[silverweb]

28. This whole idea is leaving me breathless...

...giving me hope again.

Age and budget are working against me, and I really want to stay in California if at all possible. Those are my most urgent hangups.

Land and water availability/cost (purifying/filtering not a problem!) are also primary considerations.

Over the years, I've obsessively studied enough about yurts, geodesic domes, adobe, straw bale, modular, underground, etc, etc, homes to know there are plenty of options. My dad built his own home, lived in a tar-papered, plywood shack while digging the foundation and completing the first phase. It must be in the blood, because I have no qualms whatsoever about living small, despite my age. I just have to have my computer and internet!! :D

I don't need much space. As a matter of fact, I prefer compact spaces. Two or three rooms, half underground, with a rooftop greenhouse/garden would be perfect.

*sigh* I hope I'm not getting all worked up about something beyond my reach again....

Anyone else in SoCal (or central) with similar ideas?

Recommending this thread to start a group, if not already accomplished.

[silverweb]

29. I had a dream one time.

I very rarely have dreams I remember or react emotionally to. This one was overwhelmingly positive for days afterward.

In this dream, I was in central California, just east of the Hearst Castle area, where there are rolling hills and plenty of space. I dreamed I lived in a small, eco-friendly home and supported myself by processing and selling biodiesel.

Is that entirely farfetched???

[KaliTracy]

30. I don't think it's so far fetched. I really am surprised at the reaction

thus far -- how people with a common goal want to work together to make it happen.

Logistically it wouldn't happen overnight -- but knowing that there are others who see things in the same way is encouraging.

It's finding the land that will be the hardest. I'm in Ohio -- though we have thought often about the Arizona / New Mexico area.

[silverweb]

32. Logistics are the hardest part.

On that, I'd most certainly agree.

AZ/NM would be a very reasonable area to look, as well.

[KaliTracy]

33. I think if there was land somewhere where people just

happened to buy into -- that could be a start. I want to be as much off the grid as possible, and the water situation would have to be dealth with ("Earthships" do start with a cistern, but there have been times where people have had to get water).

There are other types of sustainable housing, too.

[confuddled]

36. Here's some "land somewhere"

This west-central New Mexico area is being "developed" - graded roads, community wells, phone lines (internet) and access to electricity (if you want it). It's mostly high desert(~7500ft)with some smaller mountain sites, with pinon/juniper/ponderosa pine. There is wildlife - elk, antelope and other critters (No Congressmen that I know of.) that can roam your property if you don't fence it. Some of the areas are bordered by BLM land. There are lots of stars (No, not the Hollywood variety.), fabulous sunsets, etc. Fine solar sites, and a local guy does solar and straw bale construction. The area with which I am most familiar, unfortunately, runs conservative, but there are some liberal types. In any case, if you get a big enough chunk of land, it shouldn't matter too much except that there are landowners' associations to deal with - or not. Browse the site at Good Earth Realty and see what you think. Maybe too civilized?
http://goodearthrealtynm.com/horse/horse.html#green

[ima_sinnic]

31. kick

-- in hopes this could materialize. something I've been thinking of for a long time.

[silverweb]

35. I've been perusing earthship.org

What a great site! So much to learn about....

I also discovered another site: http://www.treehugger.com. The list of categories covers everything you could think of, including architecture, energy, furniture... you name it! Fascinating stuff.

[confuddled]

37. Kick

[BeFree]

38. Good thinking

Yall best be prepared... things WILL change and the change will be deadly for those unprepared. Ol' befree saw this shit coming a long time ago and moved to the hinterlands and set up shop. Still a long way to go to get totally free but I'm getting there. I may not be able to resist the coming splurge of mayhem and violence but at least I'll die standing tall.

Anway, get it together and if you can't go it alone, join up with some good folks and get ready. Peace.