The huge flaw in the PNAC plan

[Capn Sunshine]

To finance this insane military buildup of ours, we have financed huge deficits with sales of our Treasury Bonds. A responsible (ie Democratically controlled) gov't used to have an unspoken "cap" of foreign ownership at under 15% to avoid being manipulated financially. Currently foreign ownership of US Bonds is at 43% and rising.

Think about this for a second. If the rest of the world, or even the larger players, decide to crash us, it would actually be possible without firing a shot. In fact, it would be vastly cheaper than an arms buildup for them: They dump about 30% of their US Bond holdings on the market, and it's game over for US hegemony AND financial dominance of the world, forever.

World War 4 might be fought on the trading screens as we watch our national economy crater beyond repair. It happened to Great Britain, it can happen again to another empire-bound nation.

Part of neocon hubris is that they refuse to see this simple fact. They just aren't very good at the "what ifs" in store for the consequences of their behavior.

[DrDebug]

1. But why would the large players do that?

Because they are in control of Bush right now. And it doesn't matter if the ownership of a company happens to be French or German or Japanese, they all have significant interests/companies in the US and have 'lobbied' their way into politics. So they have no reason whatsoever to flush Bush, because he is controlled by them.

Just because HQ is not US doesn't mean that they don't have a stake. Most corporations have companies/ownerships all over the world and the US is their prime asset with the current lobbying power they have.

[Capn Sunshine]

6. Large players do not control other nations.

Despite what you may think there are several blocs out there who are independent of the neocon BFEE octopus. An effort by nations such as China , which seeks a dominant role in the world, who are the subtext subject of the PNAC plan, would do our economy in.

To assume they would not do so is what the neocons are doing now as they are more focused on the "today" of profit. The Chinese have a log view as we all know.

[DrDebug]

8. You need a hell of a lot of money

I don't think that China can afford such an action. The only group which can are the huge international companies. If for example the Oil Industry + Banking/Insurances + Pharmaceutical Industry were to stick together (they are only 30-40 companies so it's not that much) then they could pull it off. But groups like that don't have the intention to do it.

China is still too small.

In $ millions

— European Union 13,926,873
1 United States  12,438,873
2 Japan           4,799,061
3 Germany         2,906,658
4 United Kingdom  2,295,039
5 France          2,216,273
6 People's Republic of China (Mainland) 1,843,117

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

The whole of China (1+bl people) is still below France (50ml).

[KT2000]

9. China has another ace

or two.
They are home to manufacturers of goods for the US. Something as simple as a volt meter, which is necessary for maintaining military machinery, is now made in China. Manufacturing in the US has been dismantled and moved to China.

The US would get awfully weak in the knees if denied their TVs and most other consumer goods. Make no mistake that manufactured goods in China are under the control of China, no matter what corporation established the deal to put it there. Should the corporations pull out, China can assume full control of the goods.
GM is already suing China for "copying" one of their products.

China has also been shoring up support for an Asian bloc as well as securing natural resources in the area, including Africa.

Corporations have huge power over Western nations but are just players to China and China knows how to play them. We should not make the mistake of interpreting the actions of China according to Western traditions.

[salin]

2. question per "It happened to Great Britain"

refering to a war on "trading screens" (eg economic front). Unfamiliar with what you are refering to - can you give me a summary?

[Capn Sunshine]

4. Essentially, the Pound Sterling used to be the reserve currency

of the world. It was tanked by concentrated selling by an international confederation of traders, among them George Soros. The US Dollar ascended to its position as reserve currency of the world.

Great Britain never regained its premiere status financially or otherwise and still suffers from the after effects of the pound crash to this day.

[salin]

5. I had no idea - at some point am going to have to look this up and

read more. About which era did this happen (given Soro's involvement - it couldn't have been too, too long ago.)

[Capn Sunshine]

7. It was '92 actually

when the final nails in the coffin of English Empire went in went in.

http://www.explore-biography.com/business_figures/G/George_Soros.html

we were all pretty occupied with the election - Clinton Vs. Bush the elder.

[Turbineguy]

3. Well isn't that the plan

of Osama bin Laden? Bankrupt the USA. He could not do it without Bush's help. That's why he does not attack us. He cannot possibly do as much damage as the neo-cons, who are the true enemies of the American people.

[undeterred]

10. I think they have an erroneous belief that America's superpower status

is related to its military strength.

But in fact its dependent on our overall economic strength, which is declining.