Is Michael Jackson a victim of racism?

[undeterred]

Poll question: Is Michael Jackson a victim of racism?

I was listening to Jesse Jackson's "Keep Hope Alive" program this morning and there were some callers who believe this.

[Enraged_Ape]

1. MJ is a victim of his own extremely stupid, wacky behavior

It was bound to catch up to him sooner or later. He has no one to blame but himself.

[Gyre]

13. pedophiles can't hide their disease 100% the time.

It's an impossible expectation, just like expecting them to control their impulses all the time is an unreasonable expectation.

Gyre

[benburch]

Sad to say, but some people will never believe he did it.

Even though it is very obvious that he is one sick motherfucker, and has been abusing kids for years and years.

[autorank]

2. Imagine the following discussion with a friend (of any race)

You ask: "Ted, what did you do this weekend."
Ted: "Well, had some teen boys over, gave 'em some booze, showed 'em some porn, and then we all slept together in my big bed."

Now, just think about it for a moment. What do you think of Ted (regardless of his race)?

Right, farking pervert. You don't need no stinkin' pictures

Glad to say, the answer is NO.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

3. he is a victim of Sony wanting his catologs

[Cooley Hurd]

No, but he is being victimized and scapegoated...

...says NAMBLA.;)

[fortyfeetunder]

4. He's a victim of stupidity and poor self-image

Some of the self-image problems was related to his unusual childhood. However, his predicament with the kids was primarily self-induced.

[Syncronaut Seven]

5. I don't know!

Is "Freak of nature" a racial stereotype? Oh, the Black thing. Seems to me Michael doesn't exactly embrace his Black heritage wholeheartedly.

I think that battle exists within his own head.

[mike_c]

6. other-- MJ is a victim of celebrity and ostentatious excentricity....

Michael Jackson represents the fearfully "out there" for most Americans. And he clearly has some major personal issues that his celebrity enables him indulge and protect, at least to a point. I think he will end up a pretty sad figure, no matter what the outcome of this trial.

[MnFats]

7. he is EXPLOITING racism and using people who don't want...

to appear to be racist.
he's nuts, and I would not let my children within 500 yards of him.

"It's charming" to sleep with children and talk about the wonders of masturbation?


as a friend said, "SOMEBODY should tell kids masturbation is OK, but it sure as hell ain't Michael Jackson!"

(kudos to Jocelyn Elders, unfairly maligned by the right!)

[benburch]

8. My friend said...

"Yes! If he had been a black man, he would have gone to jail a LOT sooner!"

[Stinky The Clown]

9. While racism is alive and well, I'd have to say it doesn't come into play

with Jacko. He's just weird.

[Cleita]

10. No, not racism, but maybe some sort of bigotry.

Celebrities, especially, multi-millionaire world famous celebrities like Michael, fall to a specific kind of prejudice because of whom they are. When they get into trouble with the law or even drugs and alcohol, the hate comes out and it's every bit as vile as racism.

[Gyre]

11. Michael Jackson is a pedophile

With tons of circumstantial evidence of that fact, and half a ton of direct evidence of that fact.

Neverland is the most expensive and sophistocated "grooming" tool ever devised by a pedophile in western history. To pretend that it's just there "for the children" really strains credulity.

Gyre

[chaska]

49. Agreed.

[drdon326]

12. FREE MICHAEL !

Look at it this way, how many more kids can he molest ??

[losdiablosgato]

80. His own!!!

To quote a friend of mine, "If you can not buy or borrow your toys you have to make your own." That is why I think he had kids.

And the children are who I feel sorry for. Let be blunt here the total cost of MJ children's psycho therapy bills will bare a striking resemblance to a phone number, with area code!!!!

[assclown_bush]

14. Regardless of the verdict, MJ will always be thought a pedophile.

When you admit to sleeping with boys, and pay people off who have accused you of molestation you lend credence to the charges of pedophilia. MJ is getting exactly what he deserves. Michael Jackson has made his fortune by appealing to a wide spectrum of audiences...his race has never been an issue before. It is NOT one now.

[Warpy]

15. More likely a victim of "freakism."

He's turned himself into a total freak, and that may be the thing he's convicted for.

[DawnneOBTS]

16. I don't think...

that most people think of Michael Jackson as Black. He is/was a "pop" star, whose music/records were/are listened to by a mostly white audience. When I was young, all of the kids in school had "Thriller" no matter what race they were. Even the kids who could hardly speak English! He isn't played on the hip-hop/R&B stations (the music I listen to), except when they occasionally play "old school." He was always "Top 40." He was married to two white women (Lisa Marie Presley and the mother of his two children-I don't know her name). Lisa Marie admitted on Oprah that yes, they did consummate their marriage. His children, are then of mixed race. Michael has done everything possible, I think, to disenfranchise himself from his roots, which was really wrong to do. And now he comes back on his knees and says he is being unfairly persecuted because he is a Black man. Come on. He is not O.J. Simpson who most DEFINITELY was a victim of racism. He is an old man who thinks that he is still a little boy and can have all of his little friends over for sleepovers. He needs professional help.

[undeterred]

22. OJ Simpson was a victim of racism?

He was also married to and involved with white women. He was a wealthy successful athlete. He had a history which points toward domestic violence, just as Michael has a history which points toward pedophila.

Do you think he was accused of murdering his wife because he was black?

[XemaSab]

62. I think with OJ

the claim of "racism" held a little more water. He's still a murderer, but he's a Black murderer.

MJ's a pedophile, but not necessarily a Black pedophile. An above poster put it well when s/he said that he doesn't exactly embrace his Black heritage. My addendum to that is that when he started bleaching his skin, he lost the framed Black man defense.

[aneerkoinos]

17. Only one possible answer

If someone thinks Mr. Jackson's tragic and self-degrading metamorphosis from a brown person to a pale freak has nothing to do with racist culture, I've got a bridge to sell...

[Enraged_Ape]

25. There are lots of African American performers in our racist culture

I can think of only one who mutilated himself to the point where he doesn't even look human.

Michael was more a victim of his own celebrity. He has spent his life being completely surrounded by yes-men, suckups and kissasses, who'd never dare to tell His Highness that he desperately needed counseling and that it is not all right to sleep with little boys. They gave him a free pass for all of his crazy behavior, and the insanity just escalated to the point where we are now.

[aneerkoinos]

29. Minstrel culture

Look at the dancing monkey! Ain't it cute!

Yes, that aspect of the inherent racism is no doubt part of the problem.

There is never a single cause to anything, but an agregate of causes, and it is undeniable that racism is one cause to Mr. Jackson's tragedy.

[Enraged_Ape]

33. I'll grant you that racism may be A cause for his being a nutball

But the main cause? Not by a long shot. Michael's problems are much more complicated--and as I said, they were made much, much worse by the failure of anyone in his circle to ever intervene in his spiraling madness. His central problem now (and the reason he is in this current predicament) is that he can't stop himself from sleeping with little boys. Racism has nothing to do with that. He's sick.

[aneerkoinos]

35. Caution

He's not been found guilty of sexual abuse.

Whether he is guilty or not, it is fairly obvious he's suffering from severe psychological trauma, which is pitifull, not cause of ridicule.

[Enraged_Ape]

36. He's repeatedly, ENTHUSIASTICALLY, admitted...

to sleeping with little boys. He claims it's the most loving thing a man well into his 40s can do for them. That in itself is demented.

And I don't mean to ridicule him by calling him a nutjob. I just think it's so absurd that he wasn't escorted into psychiatric treatment YEARS ago.

[aneerkoinos]

45. So what?

You're entitled to have your cultural (IMHO wierd) taboos as much as the next guy, but no right to condemn others based on your personal taboos.

I sleep quite often with little boys, two of them. It is a loving thing, IMO it would be cruel to not let my boys sleep in the same bed with their parents when they wan't to. Sure it gets crowded in the bed and we have no sex life to speak of, but I've learned to accept that... :D

[Enraged_Ape]

46. Um, I don't know if you've been paying attention, aneerkoinos...

but these aren't HIS little boys. He is NOT their parent.

And if you think that's okay... well, dude, we have nothing more to discuss on this topic.

[aneerkoinos]

47. Fine

I'm aware that McCaulay Calkin shared the same bed and saw nothing wrong with that, and to my knowledge under US law adult and minor sleeping in the same bed is not illegal, while sexual abuse is.

But fine, you wanna shut up, your choise.

[LisaL]

58. Well, McCauly isn't exactly a picture of well adjusted young man now days,

is he?:eyes:

[aneerkoinos]

70. Dunno

And if he has problems, that must be because he shared a bed with Jacko?

[roguevalley]

72. If you can accept your own kids sleeping in the bed of a forty-five

year old man, any old 45 year old who lives around, then perhaps you can accept Mikey's behavior and Mary Kay's marriage and all the other pervy shit that is passing for acceptable behavior these days. if all mikey is is 'weird' then let your own kids sleep over. Frankly, he's just a pedo like anyone else of any color. He just got away with it longer than any one else.

[undeterred]

76. those dog in bed pictures have just made me realize

that I am not alone in my weird behavior of letting the dog sleep in my bed...

[aneerkoinos]

77. Sorry can't help you

And give support to your moral condemnation.

I take the "do not judge lest you be judged" stuff for real, because I've found out that judging others - or myself - does not make my mind happy and peacefull and compassionate, but sad and tortured and hatefull. Whatever mistakes we do, forgiveness works better. But that's just me. All the best! :hi:

[theboss]

87. His trauma is caused by his nutjob father

Joe Jackson is a real bastard and seems to have screwed most of his kids up. When Jermaine seems like the most normal child, someone fucked up.

[AspenRose]

90. Agreed

And he's probably the best at beating the 'racism' drum the loudest, because it detracts from people wondering about HOW Michael ended up the way he did....

[LisaL]

48. But he metamorphosed on his own. Nobody made him too.

[aneerkoinos]

53. Pay attention

The question was about racism, a complex social and psychological phenomenon, not about somebody.

There are no actions, only reactions, as U.G.Krishnamurti says.

[Mike Daniels]

79. As a brown person, MJ was one of the most successful recording artists

of our time.

It wasn't until he metamorphosized into the pale freak of today and started paying off accusers that the record sales plummeted.

[edhopper]

18. MJ

has to face the same prejudice that other white women face in this country.

[Old_Fart]

19. I doubt it

Playing with kids in your bed has nothing to do with racism. If his Lawyers play the race card that will be a desperate ploy.

[noel711]

20. Is Michael Jackson black?

[Phentex]

69. He used to be.

Now, I don't think anyone knows for sure.

[ConfuZed]

74. *yawn*

[mopaul]

96. as far as i know, he's the ONLY black man on earth to turn white

the question is why?

[efhmc]

21. He is victim of use and abuse as a child star. Never had anything

approaching a normal life from birth. Sad, but no excuse for his behavior as an adult.

[AlCzervik]

23. He's a victim of piss poor judgement, bad management and having

a questionable circle of trust.

[goclark]

24. Are the Catholic Priest held to the same standard as MJ? NO!

They have been getting off for centuries and they should be held to a higher standard than an entertainer.

Until ALL of the priest, and the POPE, come clean and rid the church of the horrors of hurting little children, MJ is being held to a standard that is unjust.

It is not about racism totally but it is a double standard.

[dbonds]

30. Maybe a triple standard but not like you said.

It is not MJ is one side of the equation and Priest are the other. Priest definitely got a different standard that needs to be greatly modified. But the other side of the equation is all non-priest, and they are held to the same standard as MJ should be. Is MJ held to a different standard than non-priest? I tend to think not. I think MJ created this 'image' (some real some media hype) of this strange guy and this strange guy likes to sleep with kids. We actually let him slide a bit on this where would wouldn't if it was strange uncle tommy. But if one or more of the kids say he was molested then it should be looked into. And here is where any prejudice 'might' come in, was it enough to send to trial. Allow for the fact that MJ has coverred his tracks well, has lots of smart people to potentially help him cover, and this might be all the evidence they could ever get. Or the flip side is MJ is a bit off, needs serious mental help, needs to be in a situation with only adults for a long long time. Either way, no racism here.

[DistressedAmerican]

60. The Unchecked Pedophilia In The Catholic Church Makes This OK To You?

If we do not get those perverts, do we just lower the bar so that none are any more punished than they were? We wouldn't want to hold other pedophiles to a legal standard because the church has successfully blocked prosecution of priests!

Come on! Think about what you are saying.

No Priest Prosecutions, Therefore No Prosecutions!!!:sarcasm:

Since when do we set law enforcement standards based on those that broke laws and got away with it.

That is just CRAZY!

[peacetalksforall]

26. Yes...to a certain extent....there is racism.

The media goes after those that they perceive as 'immoral' people in different ways.

The media is diseased in their obsession with immorality. Some of their targets are targeted in preaching disapproval. Others just get joked about. Others are dismissed in a neutered down drollness.

In some instances the media tells their audience who is immoral, how serious the immorality is, and they do this before a jury is even selected. Others get a pass with the old excuse that allows boys to be boys or because they are Hollwoods' darlings.

There is a difference in the way Michael Jackson and Paris Hilton are treated by the press. If Paris Hilton had an accuser, the media would be on her side, especially if she cried a little. Bizarre behavior is forgiven and not forgiven by the media - all those decisions are decided by program executives and the corporations who buy advertising space.

The media - employees and guest experts - are nearly always on the side of the prosecution. Neutral experts have a difficult time getting a point across in their 90-120 seconds as someone talks over them when they speak in defense of the law.

That said, many stars don't help themselves no matter how the media decides they are going to be treated.

Those rotating jesters in front of the camera are all directed. Directions means that some decisions have been made. In addition to getting an audience to watch the commercials, we all know by now, that they are partners with the right wing administration who is a partner with fanatical, demanding, overly zealous religious nuts who love to find immorality and point at it.

The only white males they went after in all these years is Condit and Peterson. Blake got a pass. All three are from California. The first two are from the same part of California. Most car chases chased from the air are in Los Angeles. We have a Hollywood tv jury made up of televisions executives who want to help tv take over from the courts.

No tv media really represents what the U.S. is supposed to be about - it is just the opposite.

[dogday]

27. From The King Of Pop To The King Of Perv

This man has had it all, more than anyone else could imagine and he has blown it all and more. He is what he is, if you see a pattern emerging, that is because there is one. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck....

[lastknowngood]

28. Which race?

n/t

[undeterred]

31. Whatever he looks like now, he is black.

I don't understand why he has changed his looks so drastically, but he denies that it is because he was trying not to be black.

[LisaL]

50. He also denies he had plastic surgery. He also denies he

is a pedophile.

[Enraged_Ape]

64. Here's a theory: He wants to look like Disney's Peter Pan

Disney's Peter Pan:


Michael Jackson:


Someone on another board posted this theory, and given his Peter Pan fetish, I think it's probably what is really going on.

[Ariana Celeste]

94. my SO's theory is similar

being that, MJ wants so badly to have his childhood back and he has such a distorted image of himself that he has been getting all the surgeries to try to make him look like a little boy, thus the tiny little nose. Unfortunately all it is doing for him is making him look like his sisters.

[amazona]

32. he's a victim of "weirdism"

There might be a proper term for it but any Asperger's or high-functioning autistic can tell you about the fear, hate, and discrimination you face every day as an "oddball." Some people -- too many people -- are willing to believe that if you're odd, you must be a threat to the little children and small poodles in your path. Jackson was brought up to be weird by weird parents, got rich and surrounded by sycophants too early, and never learned how to judge his appearance from the outside. I believe he honestly doesn't know how whacky an impression he makes. And the normal mind will never accept the mind of the adult celibate who has a horror of sex. It is easier for the person of strong or normal sex drive to believe that everyone must somehow have a sexual outlet, and if they aren't doing the nasty with adults, they must be doing it with little kiddies. Hence the suspicion of "all" priests instead of just a few, or the suspicion of Catholic priests instead of Protestant preachers -- although currently the most outrageous case of child abuse turns out to have been committed by a ring of fundamentalists rather than Catholics.

(Yeah, I'm in the camp that tends to assume that Jackson is a victim of extortionists and a lack of proper instincts for self-protection. But even if he's guilty, it doesn't change the fact that I'm damn tired of weirdos being assumed to be criminals of the worst sort. Most weirdos just want to mind their own business and wish you'd mind yours. The world would be a better place if more people were weird.)

[sendero]

95. Come on.....

... MJ was raised in a family with many siblings. As far as I can tell, only LaToya is remotely as nuts is he is.

The idea that MJ has no interest in sex is ludicrous. He has pornographic materials at his house. His song lyrics are quite prurient. Come on, this is all an act he puts on to hide the fobidden self.

Jackson is weird when he wants to be. That's when he's in trouble, and it suits him to have an "out".

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. He is a victim of bigotry but not racism per se

Michael Jackson is WEIRD. Dale Akiki was WEIRD. Google his name. His life was ruined by specious accusations as well.

People can CLAIM Jackson is a molester but so far the only people who have attempted to prosecute ALSO attempted to EXTORT money PRIOR to prosecuting.

[sierrajim]

37. Nope not a victim

Unless you call being a fucking idiot and inviting young boys to stay overnight in your room.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :nuke:

[MojoXN]

38. Racism, no, but...

MichaelJacksonism, absolutely. He's getting discriminated against because he's a fucking weirdo. Right or wrong, I can't say, I don't really care. But there's a definite bias.

MojoXN

[CarefullyLiberal]

39. Dead man moonwalking!

Great poll questions, undeterred!

I voted other because I can't stomach the idea of Michael Jackson being a "victim" of anything. He's a pedophile and hopefully he's going to go to jail.

-Fergus

[autorank]

41. LOL - Best Subject field of the day!

:yourock:

[SoCalDem]

40. Michael Jackson is a "victim" of Extreme Freakishness

Self-inflicted..

[TalkingDog]

42. You don't have O!M!G!... Puh-LEEZE! listed. n/t

[gmaki]

43. He's a victim of media sensationalism

There is no direct evidence that he molested anyone and no strong circumstantial evidence.

Am I saying he did not molest anyone? nope, I have no way of knowing. But I have no more reason to believe he did any more than any random scoutmaster, priest or little league coach.

[LisaL]

51. Oh grow up! If a random scoutmaster, priest or little

league coach were sleeping with young boys, what would you say?

[gmaki]

55. What would I say?

I would say is is possible for two people to sleep in a bed together and not have sex.

[LisaL]

59. So, if a priest was sleeping with young boys, you would think

nothing of it? Or a little league coach? Or a school teacher?
:eyes:

[gmaki]

63. I would probably think something of it.

I would not immediately conclude that "something" was child molestation though.

[aneerkoinos]

57. Interesting

This cultural taboo seems to apply only to male adults, not female adults. Is that so?


AK, the observing anthropologist :)

[blockhead]

44. why are they picking on that poor white guy?

[mopaul]

52. ......no......

[DistressedAmerican]

54. Michael Jackson Hates Himself And His Blackness. That Is The Racism

he is a victim of.

The racism in his own head.

While we are locking him up, Can we please put hid daddy, Joe away as well? His abuse of his children is the real source of this behavior!

[Enraged_Ape]

56. But Tito, Germaine, and Janet didn't turn out too bad

(LaToya, that's another story...)

As youths, we are all faced with pressures of one kind or another. objectively, they may seem relatively large or small in comparison with the pressures placed on other young people, but when they are happening to YOU, they are the worst things in the world, no matter what they are. It's the choices that you make as a fully developed adult, informed by your reactions to those younger pressures, that really matter.

Michael, in the words of the old knight from the Indiana Jones movie, "chose poorly..."

[DistressedAmerican]

61. Joe Should Gave Gone To Jail Back In The Jackson 5 days!

He did far more than just put pressure on his children. He beat them harshly when they messed up dance steps, he pimped them out all over the place. By the time michael was 6 yearas old he had perfomed in several STRIP CLUBS. That is child abuse by ANY STANDARD. He treated kis kids the way Ike Turner treated Tine. The difference is that Tine could walk out on his abusive ass.

I make NO EXCUSE FOR MICHAEL. I firmly believe he is guilty. I hope like hell he is convicted and taken out of the general population where he can continue the vicious cycle.

How many of thos that he abused will become abusers themselves.

All I'm saying is that Michael's problems are part of a larger pattern of abuse that should be recognized and punished as well.

[Enraged_Ape]

65. Oh, I agree with you wholeheartedly

Joe absolutely belongs in a jail cell.

But Michael needs to finally own up to his problems and face his responsibilities in life, like all adults (except for George W. Bush) must eventually do.

[mopaul]

66. i've known much worse fathers than joe, who's kids are not pedophiles

fathers who beat their kids horribly, but weren't in show business. there are millions of such shitty fathers the world over, but there's no proof that this causes pedophelia.

and mj can't get away with that 'i had a lousy childhood' shit forever, because millions of people have had lousy childhoods, but grew up normally, rich and poor, famous and unknown.

[DistressedAmerican]

68. PUNISH ALL CHILD ABUSERS.

That is all I'm saying. I'm pretty sure we can agree on that.

[roguevalley]

85. pedophilia is a disease. you can't catch it or learn it. it takes over

you about the middle teens and that is what it is. He's a pedophile in my book, the most dangerous kind because with his money he can walk. I think he needs jail time and a damned good therapist. (Pedophilia can't be cure by the way) so that if he gets out, he won't endanger anyone else.

I don't see racism here. I see a crime and an accused. His color is irrelevent.

[theboss]

88. Didn't Jermaine steal his brother's wife or something?

And Janet had a secret marriage for a bunch of years.

If that constitutes "normal" behavior, the entire family is fucked.

[Enraged_Ape]

89. Can't speak for Jermaine's infidelity or Janet's elopement

But they are pillars of society compared to their circus freak brother.

[Blue_In_AK]

67. If Michael isn't a pedophile, I don't know why he insists

on acting like one.

[journalist3072]

71. No.....

I'm an African-African, and I don't think race is a factor in the Michael Jackson case at all.

What 40-something year old man do you know wants to have young boys in his bed all the time?

Whether or not he's guilty of molestation, I don't know. But he's certainly guilty of being stupid.

[ConfuZed]

73. Yes

You don't see the media hounding Paul Ruben or Jeffrey Jones they have literally lyched michael jackson but with all cases of racism against blacks I expect everyone to turn a blind eye, make up excuses and ignore it.

[Enraged_Ape]

78. Who the fuck are Paul Ruben or Jeffrey Jones?

Yeah, I know who they are (it's Rubens, actually), but there is no way that either of those guys have even 20% of the worldwide popularity of Michael Jackson, who has compounded the publicity given to his issues by repeatedly expressing his own enthusiasm about his inappropriate behavior.

I'm sorry, Michael Jackson could be black, brown, white, purple, or blue. In fact, he actually COULD be those colors, since I don't know what color his skin is now. But in the final analysis, he brought all of this down on himself.

[hector459]

75. YES, but he is still guilty! n/t

[Mr.Green93]

81. Speciesism

[ConfuZed]

82. Are you saying he's subhuman Mr.Green93?

[LSdemocrat]

83. No, but he's the victim of an extremely screwed up childhood

His father had him singing in strip clubs at the age of 6! That has to screw a kid up. Not to mention actual physical and verbal abuse and a complete lack of normal childhood experiences.

[Enraged_Ape]

86. There are a lot of people who have had messed up childhoods

The VAST majority of them do not spend their nights sleeping with other people's children. I have known a lot of former abused children, and they have made it a point to defend and protect and NOT USE children. When MJ sleeps with little boys, it is for HIS benefit, not theirs.

MJ has needed intensive therapy for decades. His wealth and notoriety have kept that from him. If anything good comes out of this trial, I hope that he FINALLY gets the psychiatric attention that he has desperately needed all his life. He is a sick, sick...person.

[undeterred]

93. I also heard that his teenaged older brothers would have sex with girls

right in front of him in hotel rooms while they were on tour. I think he has a pretty distorted sense of what "normal" behavior in a home looks like.

[Goldmund]

84. If he's not guilty,

he's a victim of conformism, not racism.

[mopaul]

91. He said it himself, "It don't matter if you're black or white"

[Skidmore]

92. Michael Jackson is a victim of his own distorted

self-image. The man needs some serious treatment.

[rocktivity]

97. Depends on exactly what his race IS.

:evilgrin:
rocknation