Is today simply a repeat of a repeat of history? Or is it all new?

[Stinky The Clown]

Is the cabal doing anything now that hasn't been done before? Oh sure, there are *specific* things they're doing that have never been done before, but, at the core of their actions, is there really anything new?

Imperialism ..... old hat

Police state ...... been there, done that

Racism ..... a long and storied history

Government by fear .... a cheap trick that continues to work

What is going on now that can truly be called unprecedented?

I suspect it is only the scale of it. The sheer volume of things thuggish. But the basic concepts .... all are old hat.

Am I skewed in my view? Have I overlooked something they're doing that is truly new?

This doesn't make things better, but perhaps it puts it in perspective. It has all happened before.

And none of it was successful.

Goodness won every time, even though the things they're doing have never died.

[Cats Against Frist]

1. Dominionism -- post-modernity in the Western World

Since the Enlightenment, I'm not sure that, in the West, there's been a a back-asswards religious movement with such a grip on power. Like I said, don't quote me. Of course theocracy and religious tyranny isn't new -- but this might be a special case.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. Is it really any different from ... the Taliban? ..... the Crusaders?

Not disagreeing .... just asking ......

[Cats Against Frist]

9. No, it's a good question

But I'm talking about post-Enlightenment and in "industrialized" nations -- the Enlightenment didn't affect Islam -- on a broad scale, at least -- and the Crusaders were pre-Enlightenment. I think this is truly what makes this a special case.

On the other hand, I'm never so sure that the dominionists/reconstructionists ever REALLY have any power, or they're just being used by the corpo-fascists, philosopher king neocons, etc.

Manipulating crazy people for political gain, then, is nothing new.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. I actually don't think the Dominionists have any power at all

As you say .... they're just being used and in return for their votes have been thrown a few bones .... but only bones that don't affect the mission of those who have the real power.

As soon as the Dominionists want something that is basic anathema to the cabal, the Dominionists lose. But since the Dominionist leadership is more a part of the cabal than the Dominionists, they understand the quid pro quo. Their mission is to keep their believers in line. Think of them as a liaison than as a separate group.

[housewolf]

15. Theocracy, Dominionist, Reconstructionism and the Great Awakenings

I just left a post re this on another thread, thought I'd link it here to add to the discussion here.

[Wright Patman]

2. It is something

that "could never happen here" and the groupthink of American exceptionalism is such that the people caught up in it will tell you that it is still not happening even as they haul you off to the camps.

[nytemare]

7. I am sure that is what they thought in Germany as well

Many camp survivors talked about their disbelief. How can this happen here?

It is a human condition, I am sure.

[omega minimo]

11. Complacency is key

and OP will be intoning "Goodness won every time, even though the things they're doing have never died" as he's hauled away.

Do people find that "old hat" attitude REASSURING? Jesus H. ............

[Stinky The Clown]

12. How do you leap from the question I asked to the notion

that I would allow myself to be hauled away?

Did I opine that complacency was the antidote?

Did I suggest that if we wait we win?

The question in the original posit was intellectual, not literal.

But maybe you knew that ....... ?

Or not.

[omega minimo]

13. Digital Diddling

To the intellectual, the OP appears flippant and self-indulgent. (That's okay-- there's a full range of interest and activity on DU; however, it seem you reassure yourself with the quote I pulled).

You either already know the answer to this question

or not..

:hi:

[Protagoras]

3. Lust for Power..old as time.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

[LisaLynne]

5. IMHO, nothing new.

They aren't smart enough to come up with anything new. All their propaganda techniques, "safety and security" reasoning for a police state and the abdication of rights, etc -- all done before. All done by some of the worst regimes in history, but all done before.

We most likely have quite a struggle in front of us, but eventually, they will fall.

[nytemare]

6. Humans have not evolved much as far as need for power is concerned

I suppose that the rise of imperialism from a democracy has similar elements no matter which government you are speaking of.

That is why Star Wars is now raising so many eyebrows. It was based on the Roman Empire, Hitler, Napoleon. If the current government resembles the one in the movie, we should be concerned.

on edit: also, I think that people always have some sort of belief that they are above certain things happening to them. As in "this would not happen in America". We are not. Sometimes, it takes people with an objective view to really see what is happening. For example, the German protester with the sign "we had our Hitler, now you have yours", and Putin saying that we live in a dictatorship and don't even know it.

[Webster Green]

8. Same old shit...

Different assholes!:grr:

[Inland]

14. Like the TV network ad said, it's New to You.

Finding OUR country taking a page from the fascists and the Colonial Empires, in this century, is new to me.

[housewolf]

16. What I think is new

is, first of all - technology. Information spreads almost instantaneously now - both true information, allegations and propaganda.

This works both ways - both in terms of information coming towards "we the people" and information going back to "the powers that be" by means of focus groups and polls that may or may not be accurate. More than ever before, "the powers that be" rely on this information from focus groups and polls to determine policy rather than their own principles

Also "communications scientists" know much more today about how to manipulate people's choice and opinions through use of linguist and sublimial technologies than ever before.

While it is true that politicians and others have always tried to utilize techniques and tools such as these, today's level of technology has given them unprecedented power in these areas.


Second, the corporate-owned single-slant media is new. There used to be a multitude of privately owned newspapers. You could read newspapers from a wide variety of perspectives. Today, journalist standards have been tossed overboard in exchange for "being the first out of the gate" and those people who are not actively searching out information are being spoon-fed a lot of mis-information, propaganda and opinion in the guise of information.


Third, the amount of money being paid to corporate lobbyists in unprecedented, as is the involvement of lobbyists in actually writing legislation. While corporations have always had a lot of influence on government, particularly during the Gilded Age, I believe we have never seen the extent of influence corporations have on government before.

Additionally, the extent that these corporations are multi-national is unprecedented. By their very nature, these corporations have less allegiance to one country over another. Their allegiance is to the source of their profits.

Corporations priority on short-term profit is unprecedented. Never before the past 20 years or so, have corporations been intent on their own short-term growth. Technology has made things like out-sourcing and automation available to them, allowing them to lose their dependance to local workers.


I had one other point but had a phone call in the middle of my writing this post and now it's slipped my mind!!!! Darned!!!

Anyway - I mostly agree with you that history repeats itself and there are similaritis from the past to what we are seeing today. But I also think some things are new.



Edited to add this link to a post about "neuro-marketing"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3789740

[NashVegas]

17. It's Not New, But

It's pretty new for *us.*

Not only have they managed to march off to a bogus war, but they've gotten the overwhelming bulk of the media to assist them - in the information age, when facts are supposed to be at our fingertips.

Do not underestimate these fascists.

[Just Me]

18. The robber barons are repealing US 20th century.

It's gonna take us recalcitrant advocates for "the people", for humanity to take these greedy, exploitative assholes down.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Here's what I think is new .......

Nothing is new and everything is new.

Any aspect of their tactics and actions is not new. They're using old plays modernized for today. Sorta like the retro cars that are all the rage today. They look a lot like much older cars but they're all new under the skin. But the theme and the intended result are the very same.

What's *new* is the sheer volume of the old plays and ploys they're using.

In my view, the only thing in which they've not (openly, at least) engaged is mass genocide. And even that can be argued when one looks at Iraq and how many we've killed there. As I say, that's arguable, but I don't think they view it so much as an ideologically inspired genocide as they see it as (quaint) 'collateral damage'.

I can't think of any ealier brutal regime that's done so much at the same time.