Zogby poll - 52% of likely voters favor personal accounts for Soc Sec.

[southernleftylady]

http://www.cato.org/new/05-05/05-31-05r.html

A majority of likely voters (52-40%) favor proposals to allow younger workers the choice to invest a portion of their Social Security taxes in personal accounts, according to a new poll conducted by Zogby International for the Cato Institute. Younger voters support the chance to invest by an enormous majority (66-23% among voters under 30).

The poll also found that Americans believe that opponents of President Bush's Social Security reform proposals have an obligation to put forward an alternative plan to solve the financial crisis that is about to engulf the current system. By an overwhelming 70-22% margin, voters said that Democrats should come up with proposals of their own. Even 55% of Democrats believe this.

[spooked911]

1. oh god help us

what was this, a GOP push-poll?

Groan.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Looks like the Cato Institute.

What does that tell ya?

[Armstead]

8. Unfortunately Zogby usually tends to favor Democrats

This is bad if accurate.

The Democratic leadership had better get off the stick and get pro-active about this or the Bush train will ride over Social security like it's ridden over everything else.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. The poll was commissioned by the right-libertarian Cato Institute.

You know damn well that Cato got Zogby to write the questions in a way that would produce the results Cato wanted.

[SoCalDem]

18. Likely question:. "Do you favor OLD PEOPLE stealing all YOUR money"?

:evilgrin:

[MeDeMax]

35. zogby is being used...

in exchange for future exclusive favors.


Awesome machine pics in your post, btw.

:applause:

[SoCalDem]

36. Thanks.. I actually made it myself

:)

[Coexist]

25. see post #24 for your answer

[Skink]

9. It's not gonna matter...

There are other Chickens coming home any minute now. They can't find another bubble.

[Horse with no Name]

Bullshit.

Remember--polls don't mean anything.
Go fuck yourself Zogby. Work on some exit polls that might make a difference and quit licking dubya's balls.

[Eric J in MN]

2. Why are the results so different from other polls? nt

nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. This IS spin, from the GOP isn't it?

[southernleftylady]

lol a republican did post this on another site..

and i knew yall would have a say about it ;) :D

[ewagner]

5. Zogby?!!!!

This sounds more like a Repub push-poll than anything scientific....it's just too coincidental that as Dubya wraps up his 60 day/60 City "Ruin Social Security " Tour, the numbers suddenly swing in his favor....

something is wrong here...

this doesn't pass the smell test.....

[Viva_La_Revolution]

21. very! check the link...

http://www.cato.org/pubs/zogbycrosstabs.pdf

34.6 percent of the people who think the US is moving in the wrong direction think privatization is good?

I wish I knew if I was reading the thing right.

[Snotcicles]

6. Snotcicle poll 100% of Zogby is full of shit 50% of the time n/t

[KeepItReal]

7. Those f*cking "LIKELY VOTERS" are at it again...

Being "registered voters" just don't cut it any more.

[Skink]

11. They called to poll me but then put me on hold for 10 hrs....

:mad:

[BrklynLiberal]

10. oops. Taken out of context again. ask Scotty.

This is a bullshit poll.

[Dr Ron]

12. Pleasing the purchaser

I suspect that this poll is a case of wording the poll so that the purchaser of the poll is happy. It does contradict other polls.

It is a case of being willing to accept something for nothing. Sure it sounds great to be given private accounts which will make more money if the poll is put that way. However, if you look at the whole picture, it is a different story. Ask people if they want a larger deficit and cuts in Social Security benifts as would happen under Bush's plan. Then it won't poll so well.

[Deja Q]

13. So what caused the turnaround? Also,

if these twonks say naysayers need to discuss an alternative - we already have. There IS NO CRISIS. Or if there is a projected crisis, RESCINDING THE TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY IS A MORE THAN VIABLE START. They get he most out of our country therefore they have to put the most back into it. Otherwise they're leeches.

Want a crisis? PEAK OIL IS THE FUCKING CRISIS AND IS 1~4 YEARS AWAY, I'M HOPING FOR 5 MONTHS MYSELF.

[indepat]

14. Do they want personal accounts at any cost, even at a substantial decrease

total benefits, even if thereby they will definitely have a monstrously negative overall return on their payroll taxes paid, even if some older workers will get a much-reduced benefit without the joy of having private accounts? Are these the same fools who clamor for pre-emptive war(s), yet don't offer themselves/their children, to service in the military?

[rogerashton]

16. My students like the idea --

In a senior seminar for economics majors I taught spring term.

The ones that wrote their term papers on it largely changed their mind. Or said they did. I'd like to believe that their research led them to understand that it is fakery. (A proposal for the treasury to give away free $100 bills to college students would probably be pretty popular with them, too.) But they probably thought they were brown-nosing the prof and improving their grades.

[blurp]

33. What was the subject of the seminar? Just curious.

[rogerashton]

43. Economics.

The students chose the specific topics, researched them, made presentations and worte papers. Pretty much any topic in economics was fair game. Seniors only.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. BULLSHIT!

:grr:

[lonestarnot]

19. Plan: Take back 2 Billion from Richie Riche's Tax Cut!

[firefox]

20. I don't believe it

Besides that, where exactly is this plan of pResident War Criminal Shithead. I would like to read it.

[Spazito]

22. Ahhh, commissioned by the Cato Institute

You just HAVE to see the actual polling questions! To use the word SLANTED would be an understatement.

Click on the word poll in the press release to see the questions and the breakdown.

They even have it broken into Nascar fan, attended services and investor class, geez!

[TahitiNut]

28. Yes, their own demographic statistics show the skew.

First off, they use the GOP-tested phrase "personal accounts" which skews the poll by 15-17%. Next, they polled less than 28% who identified themselves as "liberal' or "progressive" while over 38% identified themselves as "conservative" or "very conservative." Over 51% of those who identified themselves as "protestant" also identified themselves as "born again." Approximately 45% identified themselves as "investor class."

The abominable propaganda embedded in the questions is typified by "Under the current Social Security system, you have no legal, property, or contractual right to benefits."

Zogby prostituted themselves to Cato.

[Kerrytravelers]

23. 55% of Democrats

I wonder if any of these 55% "Democrats" also voted for * because they thought somehow, magically, this bafoon would keep us safe.

My apologies to all the good, hard working bafoons out there.

[Coexist]

24. What Zogby says about this poll

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=11414
From Zogby's site:
<snip>
"As always, poll results depend a lot on how you ask the question. The latest Zogby poll finds that 52% of Americans supported Social Security reform, including private accounts, when they were told that private accounts could generate a higher rate of return than Social Security. (I've never liked talking about Social Security "rates of return," since the fact is that there isn't any investment, just payment of taxes.) "

So, they didn't tell the people they were polling that the government would take BACK 70% of the money they had earned, so the question was misleading.

[southernleftylady]

27. thanks! nt

[mrdmk]

32. Thank you for finding that, i.e. this is a push poll.

:mad:

[Enraged_Ape]

39. I.e., this is a load of horse apples

"Do you believe George W. Bush is the greatest President in U.S. history, considering that he won the war in Iraq singlehandedly?"

[mrdmk]

41. Mr. Bush Jr. has not done one meaningful thing in his entire,

pitiful life. The only thing he is good at is getting other people to give him money and him wasting it and him coming out ahead, sort of. Most people in a different time would consider this type of person a crook.

[Enraged_Ape]

42. That question is typical of the kind of "push polling"...

I ALWAYS see on these stupid polls. The question is loaded with false premises to ensure a particular response. And yes, even Zogby is guilty of this.

Would I support George W. Bush, given that he has won the war in Iraq singlehandedly? Absolutely!! Based on the false premise that he actually IS winning it, and not losing like he has at every single f&*^ing thing in his life.

[DenaliDemocrat]

26. This Poll is BULLSHIT!!!

They do not show you what questions 1-18 were. There is no apparent weighting for population, it does not appear that the northeast was considered separate part of the country. Church services is a sampling group as is NASCAR fans -- If I did such shitty statitics for my doctoral thesis my committee would have laughed me out of the room.

[question everything]

29. Depends on how the questions were formulated

and how well the respondents are familiar with current system; not only in providing for retirees, but in the fact that, in contrast to previous generations - when grandpa and grandam and aunts and uncles used to live with the family.

I do agree, and even posted here, that the Democrats need to come with a plan of their own. I think that it is stupid to - as many said here - "not to stand in the way of a train wreck" or that it could be solved if we don't spend so much money on Iraq. The reality is that we do and even if we stop the war right now and repeal the tax brakes for the rich, it will take us years to come out of the deficit.

[demgrrrll]

30. I was polled by a Republican party operative yesterday. I am not

dumb but by the end of that survey my head was spinning. They asked the questions in such a convoluted way that it was hard to tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with the position. Almost in the realm of if a speeding train is going down the track at 50 miles per hour and 5 people choose to jump off...would you vote for x or are there 45 people left on the train? They push pummel and prod for the responses they are looking for. All in all it was a disgusting experience and I will now view any poll done by a conservative group like CATO as suspect.

[mrdmk]

31. Here are the real problems with Social Security

1) To many people are losing their jobs and are unable to pay in (by design?).

2) The Federal Government keeps diverting money going to Social Security to the General Fund.

Here are the people who benefit.

1) Wall Street, because of mass corruption and incompetence major investors are looking for a different place to put their money.

2) Insurance companies because they are heavily invested in Wall Street (Not to mention they as a group they will not have to explain the mass corruption and incompetence).

3) Major Corporations, they need to keep making money for their investors (that is not a joke) not to mention their pension plans are invested in Wall Street.

4) The Government, a) They will not have to explain the mess that Wall Street is in (at least for a while), b) All of the pension plans invested in Wall Street that could fail.

What the powers that be are afraid of is a total melt down of the economy. If this should happen the powers that be will not be the powers that be. This seems to me to be a avoidance of the Roman Empire.

[creeksneakers2]

34. The questions are so slanted that the scores mean nothing, BUT

It does show that bit by bit the propaganda is sinking in and the GOP is defining the facts and the issue.

I'm angry that Dems are on the defensive, rather than the offensive on this issue. Once again, they believe that ignoring GOP lies will work. It won't.

By now, people should understand that Bush is ripping off money from the trust fund that the public PAID in. Peoples should understand that there may not be an SS problem at all. They should understand the SS is not an investment. They should remind the public that all the time when the money was being borrowed the Democrats warned about the rising debt load, and the GOP called Dems "prognosticators of doom and gloom." The public should understand how they are being lied to.

Instead the Democrats have honored what Bush is doing by saying they'll consider it is the circumstances are right. Other than that, they barely talk about it.

The GOP is successfully convincing the public that there is a problem and the Democrats are doing nothing about it. They are persuading people that SS is an investment and a poor one at that. Etc.

This should be an issue that devastates the GOP. Instead, the GOP will either pass it, or by 2006, convince the public that "Bush may not have been right about SS but it is a problem and at least he tried to do something about it." At this rate the issue will win no votes at all.

[mrdmk]

37. Here some more on the Social Security BS meter

<snip>
Bush über-strategist Karl Rove, who commands the White House's Social Security war room, sees personal accounts as vital to shifting the allegiance of younger voters to the GOP. But there's a glitch in Rove's machine: Polls show that, rather than flocking to Bush over Social Security, the under-40s are growing skeptical of his approach.
<end of snip>

link
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_20/b3933001_mz001.htm

this is also Karl Rove thinking of the future for us Americans. How thoughtful of him!

[ewagner]

38. Sneaky wording

look at the way this is worded:

"...to allow younger workers the choice to invest a portion of their Social Security taxes in personal accounts,..."

So what is it they're agreeing to? Private Accounts or Choices?

Also noted that it was posted by CATO....makes me even more suspicious...

[LaPera]

40. The right-wing CATO Institute ...What a fucking joke!

And what are the younger workers going to invest in? Enron's World-Com's United? Corporations receive very generous bankruptcy laws...Who loses first every time? The workers.

The right-wing "think tank" CATO Institute has been pushing hard for PRIVATIZATION...from day one.

Republican ideology dictates they despise Social Security, always have, always will!

[Shallah Kali]

44. Do you trust your neighbors to keep SS going?

Get a polling firm to ask that and see what the results would be. I know too many people who have royally messed up finances to trust the future of SS to their voluntary contributions. If people like those are not forced to add their share the rest of America will have to bail out their sorry carcasses or let them starve. I have a relative that was hitting up his almost 90 year old Mother for a loan because he couldn't buy his medications he would die without yet owns two big screen TVs and pays over $100 per month for cable. Yeah I am going to trust that he is the only idiot in America and everyone else will do their share willingly.

[second edition]

45. Bush had NOTHING to do with this poll! Yeah, right!

Bush's agenda includes getting rid of Social Security as we know it. Apparently, as is typical with him, he will stop at noting to win. I hope his Social Security initiative dies a quick death real soon.