Are tasers just portable electric chairs?

[Shrubhater]

As you know, taseres have increased in use dramatically with law enforcement. They carry extremely high voltages, some over 50,000 volts. They've been used on CHILDREN and adults, sometimes it causes HEART ATTACKS, sometimes DEATH. Taseres should ether be downsized or removed, PERIOD. They cause WAY too much damage for their own good.

[eleny]

1. Were you just listening to Peter Werbe's radio program

A gentleman called in to talk about I-94, the NAFTA super highway they want to build through Indiana. Peaceful protesters were tasered by the police. It sounded awful.

[Shrubhater]

3. No, I wasn't.

Have you ever gotten one of your threads on the Greatest page?

[eleny]

15. I don't know if any of my threads landed there

I only try to keep track of my threads to answer responses and such. Why do you ask? Do you need some help?

[Shrubhater]

16. Well, I've tried to get at least one of my threads on the Greatest page,

I thought that two of my threads were Greatest page material, but the first attempt failed big time, it didn't get any votes. My second attempt (this thread), so far got only two votes. So, to your second question, yes, I do.

[lenidog]

2. Its a Catch-22 many times responsible police will use tasers instead of

a Glock. So whats more dangerous a volt of electricity or a 115 grain FMJ 9mm bullet

[Shrubhater]

4. I'd say the bullet.

But I'm not talking about 1 volt, I'm talking THOUSANDS of volts, which can kill.

[oscar111]

5. Volts harmless

Hi voltages are ok if there are few amperes involved.

VA = W

volts times amps equals watts.

you can get incredible hi volts, and if amps are low, no harm at all.

you may be right about tasers tho.

if their hi volts are combined with enough amps, then they are dangerous.

just want to tell you this detail, case some freeper hits you with this detail. Be read;y with some info about the amps of tasers.

also would help to have stats on how many killed last yr by taser use.

thanks for the post, liked it. we need regulation of tasers, i agree {surprise}.

[Shrubhater]

6. What are amps?

:shrug:

[sir_captain]

8. Current

volts are just the measure of the electromotive force potential difference between two poles.

Amps, short for amperes, are the measure of *current* -- ie, the amount of charge passing a point at any given time.

Voltage is not inherently dangerous--you have something like a million volts going through you when touch one of those science museum globes that make your hair stand on end.

Amperage is what's dangerous. Tasers are designed not to have particularly high amperage.

Obviously, this should not encourage their use when it's unnecessary.

[sir_captain]

10. this is not strictly accurate either

Wattage is *power*

It is actually the amperage that is dangerous. The more pertinent equation is V = IR where V = voltage, I = amperage, and R = resistance.

[Shrubhater]

17. Wattage can also be refered to as joules per second.

Joules are a measurement of energy, and wattage is the number of joules used per second.

[sir_captain]

18. That's true

and it's the joules that are dangerous. It doesn't really matter for how long they are applied to the body.

[Canuckistanian]

11. It only takes about 40 MILLI-Amps to kill someone

That's right, only .04 of an Amp can kill. And since the human body is not a perfect resistor, it can easily kill - if you hit the right spot.
A chest shot can cause arrthymia, a head shot severe nerve damage.

[Shrubhater]

12. Acually, just 6 milliamps (.006 amps) to the heart can kill.

[lenidog]

7. While bullets can't I take it or cause massive pain and injury in 100%

of the times they are used. Obviously you have never been shot or known someone who has or you wouldn't say that.

[sir_captain]

9. See my post below

voltage is not what is dangerous

[Warpy]

14. Internal affairs needs a routine investigation when ANY

weapon is discharged! The problem is cowboy cops who will taser a person multiple times just to see him jump. There is no oversight on these things, and cops will use them when stepping back one step and listening to people for 30 seconds would serve them much better.

Questioning these guys when they discharge those tasers would cut down on the cavalier and unnecessary use of them. There's nothing like filling out a thick stack of paperwork to dissuade you from firing a weapon when you don't need to.

[Floogeldy]

13. What?

Was there a problem with the shotgun?

[Jacobin]

19. It's more like Russian Roulette

It probably won't kill you, but it might.

[Shrubhater]

20. If you have any heart problems it will almost certainly kill you.

[sir_captain]

24. That's not at all true

Most heart problems are not electrically related and the taser would not have any special impact on them.

[eleonora]

21. better use a tazer than a gun

I know there are risks with taser use, but they are effective and less dangerous than guns...a shot will certainly do more damage than a tazer shot....and some really deserve it. Let's not paint all cops as crooks with 'portable electric chairs'. If you want to go that way then they shouldn't even carry guns.

[Shrubhater]

22. Ask yourself,

What if the taseree had heart problems?

[AirAmFan]

26. Let's make your assumptions explicit: You think cops taser INSTEAD

of shooting their pistols. People who disagree with you (myself included) think that cops use their tasers IN ADDITION TO shooting people much as they did before tasers became available. Which side is right?

To some extent, possibly both sides. How could we tell which side is right, and to what extent? We would need data, though I suspect very few police departments release data on the number of victims of their violence broken down by type of weapon.

For simplicity, let's disregard all incidents in which police used both tasers and firearms on the same victim. You would be 100 percent right if the number of shootings by police has gone down by some number per year, and the number of taserings per year is no more than that number.

We would be 100 percent right if the number of police shootings per year has not gone down.

Let's say the number of police shootings has gone down by X, and the number of taserings is Y. We would be ((Y-X)/Y) * 100 percent right, and you would be 100 minus that percentage right. I have not seen any data, except for an astounding number of reports of taser use against children, against people in handcuffs, in traffic citations, etc. I suspect you're likely much less than 50 percent right, maybe only 5 or 10 percent right.

[SlipperySlope]

27. Same standard should apply

Taser should not be seen as "lesser" force than firearms - any use of taser should be justified under prevailing "deadly force" rules.

[AirAmFan]

28. Excellent point! It's an ORWELLIAN INVERSION to call a weapon that

ESCALATES police violence a life-saving substitute for firearms. If tasers truly are expected to be a lifesaving substitute for firearms, they should be used only under circumstances when firearms can be used.

Such circumstances do NOT include--

--when a young African-American child has a fit at school because the teacher took her candy away;

--when an African-American woman refuses to step out of her vehicle at the whim of a traffic cop, or

--when an African-American woman struggles vainly to get out of painfully tight shackles in the locked back seat of a police cruiser.

[Algorem]

23. Despite safety debate, area deaths, Cleveland police buy 60 stun guns

http://www.cleveland.com/crime/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/111805037518660.xml&coll=2

Monday, June 06, 2005
Gabriel Baird
Plain Dealer Reporter

Cleveland police plan to arm more cops with science-fiction-inspired stun guns that have sparked a nationwide debate because some people have died after being shocked by them.

Police around the world use Tasers to immobilize combative suspects long enough to handcuff them. In some cases, Tasers are used when an officer's only other choice would be deadly force.

But Cleveland's purchase of the weapon -- and its decision this summer on who will be trained to use them -- comes as the human rights group Amnesty International questions the gun's safety.

Recently, Tasers have been used locally and nationally to end standoffs or stop violent suspects. Sometimes, results are fatal:...

[Shrubhater]

25. Exactly my point.