Edwards Should STFU

[smartvoter]

I can't believe this guy is taking shots at Dean, of all people.

Where was he when Kerry was being assaulted? Where was he to answer Cheney? Why did he wuss out of all the tough attacks in the debates with Cheney?

I was all for Edwards early on but was utterly disappointed in his performance -- especially when our side was being battered by Cheney and the Swifties.

Now he wants to take swipes at one of the few leaders on our side who will fight back?

Maybe he should STFU and get on with his next life.

[ConfuZed]

1. Clinton, Kerry & Edwards should STFU

They had their chances to take that old blubbering moron Bush and this election head on and they did jack now that the election is over they are popping their heads out, bullcrap.

Edit: Maybe STFU is the wrong way to put it but my opinion on those 3 remains the same.

[FreedomAngel82]

3. What's your problem?

He has an opinion. So what? He doesn't speak for you does he? Only you speak for you and I speak for myself. Do you want someone telling you to "shut the fuck up" because they disagree with you? Who gives a damn. Last time I looked Edwards, Biden and anybody else had a right to free speech. You may not like it but who gives a damn. Dean isn't an apologist for what he says, so why should they be? Grow up.

[Erika]

7. Agreed FreedomAngel

Democrats believe in free speech.

[sendero]

58. Yes...

.... and I reserve to right to freely criticize what he said, and to work toward making sure he is never elected to anything ever again.

I was always lukewarm about Edwards, with his frankly near-effiminate demeanor and his incessant happy talk, now I'm decidely cold.

There are some things you can say without consequence, and other things are fighting words. When Edwards has done something useful for the Dems besides losing, I'll give him more leeway to speak his mind.

At the present time, Edwards is doing nothing useful to counter the Rep machine, then he goes and spouts off. He's done.

[lwin]

10. Finally, a voice of reason

You know what, everyone who has been piling on Edwards can just STFU as far as I'm concerned.

So he disagreed with the great and powerful Oz, oh, I mean Dean. Dean can take care of himself. He's been through worse.

Guess what, I agree with Dean on a lot of things and disagree with him on approach many times. But I support him where it counts, and haven't noticed the DNC turning down my $$$ and volunteer time.

And I will continue to express my support AND displeasure as I damn well please, as should Biden, Edwards and everyone else. If I wanted someone telling me to drink the koolaid and keep in formation, I'd join the GOP.

We should circle the wagons during an election, no doubt. But now is the time when we hash out our differnces.

So the Edwards lynch mob can just step off. Take your Democratic Gestapo act somewhere else.

[stickdog]

23. Whatever. The Repukes just got a free attack ad on Dean

masquerading as news across America's foremost wire service. Edwards and Biden gave the AP's Repuke operatives all the ammo they needed to publish a "Democrats are in disarray & Dean's a loose cannon" mountain out of an otherwise innocuous (and base rallying) anti-Repuke barb.

They both should have said, "Either you're taking the quote out of context or else Dean misspoke -- you know, just like Bush does every other day."

[Roxy66]

38. Thank You......

I have been reading these responses tonight and I just cant believe the venum being spewed. Dean is not the almighty. If he makes over-the-top comments he's going to have to deal with the responses. Edwards is responsible with the language he uses, and he has been fighting hard against this Administration and for our Democratic Values.....

[wellst0nev0ter]

55. Actually, They Should STFU

They get their chance to dispell the craven dissembling by the bought-and-sold media and they have failed miserably - some might even say they've betrayed their own party.

They should really see the damn speech for themselves before they go reciting RNC talking points to Timmaaaay! and friends. He was clearly talking about the Republicans knee-deep in scandal in that state who last election forced urban voters to stand eight hours to exercise their right to vote. How that issue got transmogrified into an attack on those poor widdle Republicans instead of the real victims

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. Well....what do we have here? Looks like yet another poster that...

...wants to blame the results of GOP-controlled electronic voting machines on Democrats.

Interesting.

You don't want to know my opinion about people who want to continue to believe that elections since 2000 have been fair and legal.

[CarbonDate]

35. You're probably right.

I don't want to know. Not because I'm afraid, but because I don't care. You don't want to know what I think of people who blame the Democrats' short-comings on unprovable accusations of voter fraud, probably for the same reason. Note that I am not saying that there is no voter fraud, just that any accusations of it are unprovable, at this point. The difference between a conspiracy theorist and a conspiracy theory nut is that a conspiracy theorist acknowledges that his theories are theories, while a conspiracy theory nut sneers at all the "fools" who do not immediately swallow all of his theories.

Guess which one you are?

[wmills551]

57. What a great post!

[Just Me]

65. So, you don't want to know AND you don't care.

Better to beat up on Democrats than take down the corrupt cabal that runs this country?

:shrug:

I wonder if we're on the same team? I have my doubts.

[lonestarnot]

49. Bushitler and Dishonorable Dick and Jane Rover cheated in a very

clever fashion, not to mention the bought and paid for media. Just what do you think they should have done?

[Straight Shooter]

2. He's being groomed for 2008.

I don't like Edwards. Never have, never will. You would think, with all his lawyer "smarts," he could have come up with a snappier comeback and turned the tables.

But noooo, he walked right in and made himself at home. It's clear where his loyalties lie.

I still respect and admire Elizabeth Edwards. I wish she would run in 2008. She makes John look like he's about 2 inches tall.

[whatgives]

4. I agree. I live in NC

and I'm disgusted by his comments about Dean.

[Seabiscuit]

14. I'm dismayed as well, and it's not a free speech issue to me - it's about

judgment. Edwards exercised very poor judgment with his comments. It would have been better for his own sake if he had just STFU instead of making them.

As for free speech, let him say what he wants - he will have to live by and perish by his own words.

[boohootwo]

63. I live in NC and I support Edwards right to free speech.

[garybeck]

Dean isn't all he's cracked up to be

I'm from Vermont. Dean is 90% talk, 10% action.

I'm not sure what you're referring to specifically, but I've heard Edwards say some pretty good things about election reform lately.

[Eloriel]

16. Other Vermont DUers have said exactly the opposite

They've been huge fans, as am I (tho not a Vermonter).

[stickdog]

26. Whatever. That's more action than Biden & Edwards put together.

Unless standing tall for credit card debtors' prison is your kind of action.

[Roxy66]

39. You sure like that word..."WHATEVER"....

[stickdog]

43. Well, it's the name of Biden's party, ain't it?

[Erika]

5. John Edwards & Elizabeth are great and have had their own trials

to go through. I respect both of them immensely.

[smartvoter]

21. No qualms with them on that side. nt

[seabeyond]

6. edwards was out there taking on cheney

and he had some good comebacks to cheney and sometimes it even made it onto the news. he worked his ass off during the campaign as did kerry. they were all over the country doing speeches to huge crowds and very little of it was put on news, but it was there if we wished to see

and yes i expect him to be supportive to dean too

[FreedomAngel82]

8. And if he isn't?

What are you going to do about it? Bitch and complain? So what. You don't have to like everybody. Yes, Dean is the chairman but Edwards is apart of the party isn't he? He and Biden still are democrats even if people don't like them. They still deserve a say in the party and what happens, don't they? Just like you do and I do. I love how you're trying to take away their free speech.

[smartvoter]

9. This is soooo easy to see.

They should take it up in private rather than pull the rug out in public and feed the Republicans and press with talking points of infighting and the like.

Now, they're out here making headlines with their slams on Dean. The establishment never wanted Dean.

These dots are easy to connect.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. No shit

[Eloriel]

18. Exactly. I don't mind a bit they have criticisms of Dean -- what I mind

is them spilling their guts to NO ONE'S BENEFIT but their own -- which is kinda debatable, actually, since I think they don't have a clue about Dean's popularity and risk shooting themselves in the foot with their foolish grandstanding.

[smartvoter]

20. Yep. Hence, the unpopular post, "STFU." It's not about free speech. nt

[seabeyond]

12. you are making a lot of assumptions

we have been talking this for a while. i have been supporting biden and edwards right to say they dont agree with what dean says. dean has to learn when making such a statement, clarify. such as republican leaders making law, not i hate republicans. of course biden and edwards have the right to say they dont agree with deans statement. i feel they can do it without seperating dean from the party though. such as, ........i dont agree with his statement, but of course as he explained to wolfie, he was not talking about voters, he was talking about the leaders as we all know.

it is solidarity of party i am looking for. i am also one that believes we can have all different kinds of people in our party. another post of mine in the thread, can we like dean and edwards.

ya.........i can like dean edwards and biden. biden has done a lot for the party, though many on the board just dont like him

it isnt hard for me to appreciate each and everyone for the contribution they give, as a whole..........that is what i am asking from all our representitives. for them too to honor the contribution of all, to create a strength in uniting.

as i expected hillary to support kerry during the campaign, yet sometimes, i feel she fell short. i think that is hillary's flaw not kerry. as i think it is edwards and bidens oops. and dean had his own by saying what he did

[FreedomAngel82]

13. But you should never

tell someone to "shut the fuck up" because you don't agree with that. Free speech is important as we all know. If you don't have it, what do you have? To take it away from someone is wrong and very immature and just being a dick.

[seabeyond]

15. i didnt say shut the fuck up to anybody

i dont think those words, together as a whole, have come out of my mouth. i am not opposed to fuck. use it often. i have used shut, as in shut the door, but i dont use shut up

besides i am dickless.

do tell, where did i say shut the fuck up

[FreedomAngel82]

22. You obviously missed the point of my reply to you

[seabeyond]

25. and yes i expect him to be supportive to dean too

is this what is so offensive to you freedom?

to expect democrats to be supportive of each other is comparable to me saying shut the fuck up and denying them the right to free speech. cause i guess i am missing your point. this is telling them to shut up?

[Eloriel]

24. You have a skewed understanding of Free Speech

For one thing, the same Free Speech that you are defending gives the person who wants to say STFU exactly the same rights.

For another (more important), the ONLY guarantee we have in the Constitution is tht the GOVERNMENT cannot censor our speech. People can express their opinions, which is what this is, and private individuals can exercise whatever censorship they want over their own property -- which is precisely how DU can evict freepers day after day and NOT have it called "censorship" except by the ill-informed.

Finally, even if your understanding of Free Speech were a correct one, there's STILL the issue of propriety, decorum, etc. For example, yes, Howard Stern has the right under the Constitution to not have the government decide what he can and cannot say (within certain limits), but that doesn't mean that everything and anything is fair game. IOW, Free Speech isn't the same as license.

Let's take a G. Gordon Liddy who has famously said threatening things about federal agents, BIll Clinton, and who knows what else? Those may have been legal, but they crossed a line of decorum and propriety.

Anyway, telling someone to STFU is JUST as protected as speech as any other, esp. the speech YOU think shouldn't be criticized that way.

[stickdog]

27. Why not STFU when the alternative is a Repuke attack ad on a fellow Dem

and Dem unity in general masquerading as a wire service news story?

Please explain.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

17. What did he say?

[PeaceProgProsp]

19. I wish some DU'ers would get a clue. There's room for many voices.

Some people like the slamming on Republicans, and it has its place.

Others like to hear people act like they want win over a few moderates with a message about builiding up the middle class that's in the best interest of moderates as well as progressives, and it's good for all economic classes, regardless of how they vote of party affiliation.

[stickdog]

28. Great, so fighting about it through the media is your nifty solution?

It was an obvious game of "gotcha" and Biden & Edwards acted like they were running in a primary against Dean or something with the way they rose to the bait.

They blew it, and tommorow millions will read a "Dem's in confused disarray & Dean's a loose cannon" Repuke attack ad masquerading as a wire service news story because they felt the need to stab their party chairman in the back instead of simply deflecting the "gotcha" bs.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

29. Thay's right!! One cannot say that in the media!!

[smartvoter]

30. LOL. That is exactly the point. And when you apply history to this,

as in Dean has huge support in the base but not among party leadership, the motives behind these little gems don't look so hot.

[lwin]

32. Got any more conspiracy theories for us?

:rofl:

[smartvoter]

33. Doesn't have to be a conspiracy. Just an attitude about Dean. nt

[PeaceProgProsp]

36. I bet Dean and Edwards don't see this as a fight.

And you have to wonder why so many people want to interpret it that way.

[smartvoter]

37. Regardless, it was predictable the media would spin it that way. nt

[PeaceProgProsp]

51. I bet you don't hear a single word about this outside DU and maybe

one other web site, and I bet there's much more crap about it here than at FR. To the rest of America, the reaction will be, "Dean is harsh to Republicans, and Edwards wants the votes of a few moderate Republicans who will respond to his message about rewarding work with financial security and opportunity. Tell me something I didn't know."

[stickdog]

66. Think again, It's in 173 newspapers this morning!

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&ie=UTF-8&q=Dean+Edwards+Biden&scoring=d

That's way more than EVERY mention of the Downing Street Memo over the last month!

[Roxy66]

41. Grow up!!!

[smartvoter]

42. ??? He raised legitimate points. Grow up because you don't agree? explain

[stickdog]

44. Don't you mean, "Get over it"?

[oasis]

34. Edwards grew up in the south. He has the manners of a true gentleman.

He didn't launch into a tirade about what Dean said. Not all Dems are cut from the same cloth.

[stickdog]

46. He could have finessed it a lot better and you know it. He played "gotcha"

patty-cake with corporate media as if he were still running against Dean in a primary. He's not. They are both on the same side now. So why not just say, "I'm guessing that's not what he said or it's taken out of context. And if it is what he said, I'm sure that's not what he meant. In any case, it's beside the point which is that Republican policymakers are looking out for only "one America" while we Democrats are looking out for both."

Would that have been so difficult for Edwards? Somehow I don't think so.

[CarbonDate]

40. John Edwards should be stripped of his freedom of speech.

Really, this whole discussion is silly. This isn't about freedom of speech, and any claims that it is are specious at best.

[WillowTree]

45. Oh, by all means!

Because, after all, that's what Liberalism is all about, right? Anyone who disagrees with you, or me, or views something differently than we do should not have a voice but must be silenced. That's what our Constitution says and what our forefathers fought and died for.

Get a grip, for Heaven sake.

[stickdog]

48. Why not STFU when the alternative is a free Repuke attack ad on a

fellow Dem & Dem unity in general (masquerading as a national wire service story) is the alternative?

[smartvoter]

47. Note to see this thread. Author says media is lying. nt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3794246

[lonestarnot]

50. Ewwww Thanks for clearing up this mud!

[ultraist]

52. How ironic. Cannibalizing one of our own

while demanding our own shoudn't eat eachother.

How sad that some DUers are buying into the MSM media spin,same old meme, "The Democratic party is broken." This is EXACTLY what they want, for Dems to get hysterical. They TWIST the facts and create hysteria so they can avoid the REAL ISSUES. Another diversion tactic.

Dean and Edwards will be appearing TOGETHER, next week, at a DNC fundraiser. I'm sure they have worked it out.

Why don't those of you who are trashing Edwards GROW UP!

I like Dean and Edwards.

[Roxy66]

53. Amen....

[stickdog]

54. No. We're just pissed our ostensible "leaders" fell into a MSM trap.

Our Democratic "leadership" needs to grow up and start acting like they all know that they are on the same team.

When we bitch, we are justifiably blowing off a little steam at our "leaders" for stupidly falling for (or even stirring up) another one of the MSM's endlessly idiotic "gotcha" traps. Our criticisms have no effect on public opinion.

On the other hand, when Biden & Edwards admonish Dean to the national press, millions of voters open their local newspapers and are treated to AP articles that are obviously destructive to our party's interests.

[smartvoter]

61. This is dead-on, stickdog. nt

[JNelson6563]

56. I must say

that when I saw Edwards at the recent conference on C-Span, I was very disappointed. I had just seen Dean and then they played Edwards' speech. The enthusiasm seemed forced and it just kinda rang hollow.

I had been in touch with someone from his office about a future appearance here for a District gig so when he came on I was hoping to see him do great. When he fell so flat IMO I was very diappointed and thought, maybe someone else for the event.....

Julie

[LiberallyInclined]

59. Edwards is another southern DINO religoid fuckwad.

i sure don't see what people see in the guy, and i will NEVER cast another ballot for the guy. I didn't appreciate that i had to vote for him last time.

[Q]

60. The language used to describe fellow Democrats is very disturbing...

...and unnecessary. We should be able to disagree with Dem 'leaders' without calling them 'fuckwads', etc.

That said...Edwards is wrong if he implied that Dean doesn't speak for the Democratic party. This is actually part of his job as DNC chair.

We should remember that Edwards is DLC and they've resented Dean ever since he threatened to take the party away from them in 2004.

[LiberallyInclined]

62. i don't consider eddie to be a 'fellow democrat'-

the dlc is not the democratic party.

[boohootwo]

64. Just another thread to fan the flames within our party.