Soon it will be a CRIME to "disappear"...

[BiggJawn]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/06/woman.found.ap/index.html

So the cops FINALLY find a woman who has been missing for almost 7 years alive and working for the Evil Empire (Sam's Club) after taking a powder and dropping out after getting into a fight with her mom over college grades and mom's descision to stop paying for school.

She's STILL pissed at her mom, BTW....
"Stahr told her sister the family should not bother visiting, but her mother said nothing will stop her."

<snip>

"Although Stahr committed no crime in her disappearance, investigators spent a lot of money and time looking for her, (Texas Ranger Frank) Malinak said.

"The responsible thing to do would have been to let someone know you're OK," Malinak said. "There are going to be people expending man-hours and effort, trying to find a missing person."
-30-

So I guess they'll take a clue from the "Runaway Bride" people and sue Brandi in civil court to recover the money they spent?

Is this what we're coming to? We're supposed to have SUCH a sense of responsibility to The Collective that we would NEVER knowingly do something to cause a bunch of puffed-up "First Responders" to go apeshit and make fools of themselves like they did with the "bride"?

Yeah, that's the ticket. you can't just up and leave with no forwarding address, because that would cause a financial hardship on your town...Stay in Touch. Keep the Authorties apprised of ALL your movements.

[China_cat]

1. And that's how an abusive ex was able to find

me and steal my son. He just reported me as a missing person. Instead of asking me if there was a reason I was 'missing', the cops and investigators just told him where I was. I lost 24 years of my son's life because of it.

[murray hill farm]

6. that really is horrid..what happened to you!

i hope u and your son have been able to pick up...but 24 yrs is a long time...mostly i hope u were able to rebuild a life that was better.

[China_cat]

10. Yes we now have a relationship

but it was really shaky because of all the lies he had been told about me and until he got confirmation of what I told him from a third party that I didn't know about him contacting he was very confused as to what to believe. Who can blame him?

The abusive ex? He's dead. Best thing he ever did for the human race.

[wicket]

17. Horrible.

So sorry to hear that :hug:

[Dora]

2. Jeebus

I wonder if her mother ever thought to mention to any of the search parties that she and her daughter had a fall-out?

[bleedingheart]

3. I am torn on this issue

on one hand I can empathize with the family. If a family member just disappears it can be terrible and there could be foul play involved.

However, if an adult you expect is upset with the family or flakey (runaway bride) then I don't understand why people spend so much time and money looking for them.

My cousin's daughter, she is 45 or so, has been missing for almost 18 months. How did the family realize this? Well they tried calling her and no answer, eventually the phone was shut off and then they drove out to where they thought she lived and she was just gone....all her stuff moved..etc.

Now she had been on the outs with the family at times but they had no idea she would do something like this. They did not get law enforcement involved.

[whistle]

4. Also, wasn't someone executed for her supposed murder....

...in spite of appeals? Why wouldn't this gal know about such a trial?

[Walt Starr]

14. Executed for an unerlated murder

He was questioned about this disappearance while on death row for another murder.

[whistle]

21. Ok, thanks.....

[Divameow77]

5. The only problem I have with the Runaway Bride

is that she lied about being abducted. She should be in trouble for that. Up until she lied I have no issue with her taking off, she is an adult. If Brandi didn't tell anyone she had been kidnapped then I don't see a problem.

[trumad]

7. If my son or daughter just up and left nver to be heard from again

Ya damn right I'd call the cops. What if.....

[KharmaTrain]

20. 7 Years...That's A Long Time

Yes, as a parent, I'd be very concerned if my children vanished without a trace and would contact authorities...and if that wasn't satisfactory, contract my own investigators. However, a couple red flags stick out at me about this and the "Runaway Bride".

This article fails to mention if Brandi had ever just up and gone before or demonstrated some "anti-social" behavior (similar to the shoplifting of the Runaway Bride) that would say there's other problems at work here. Usually a well-trained police profiler will see these flags as well. In the case of the Runaway Bride, I suspect the media got so far out in front of the story, the truth and reason never had a chance. It still doesn't.

I would think that over those 7 years, the family had indications that Brandi was alive and hiding. Again, there are no details on how she really disappeared...if it was just dropping from plain sight...not some abduction...sadly, this is not uncommon...hundreds of people vanish every day. Look at milk cartons or the personals section of a major newspaper...people trying to find others. Sad, but a symptom of a culture where religious, economic and media pressures have made everyone's life a Truman Show now.

Cheers!

[lonestarnot]

8. Not when THEY disappear you.

Exemptions always written in for themselves as government.

[MrModerate]

9. I must have missed the "going apeshit" part of the response.

Every time one of these disappearances happens (almost all of which, as you no doubt know, ends up with a decomposed body being found a few weeks later), people respond strongly -- they form seach parties, they post flyers, the go on TV and beg for the safe return of their loved one . . .

Wouldn't you? If there's some chance that'll bring the person home alive? Police respond appropriately to community demands in these cases by investing their resources trying to locate or recover the person. And that costs money.

Every once in awhile, it turns into a Runaway Bride sort of thing. And the authorities are faced with tens of thousands of law enforcement dollars -- which could have been used for more valuable things -- up in smoke.

I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who precipitates one of these responses to bear some responsibility for the waste of resources.

I also agree with the Ranger's comment that "the responsible thing to do would have been to let someone know you're OK." Even not talking about law enforcement, what about the family? Even a simple phone call: "Fuck you mommy, but I ain't dead. Bye now," would suffice.

[Bake]

43. No legal basis to impose costs if there's no crime

So as long as you don't make up some bullsh*t story to the cops about being abducted, and as long as we have a Constitution that guarantees citizens the right to travel freely within the several states, there's no crime and hence no basis for imposing the search costs on the "missing person." In other words, you have a right to be left alone.

Is that "responsible?" Maybe, maybe not, depending on the circumstances. Illegal? Absolutely not.

Bake

[MrModerate]

48. In the case of the Runaway Bride, she . . .

Made up her bullshit story AFTER most of the search efforts had been made. In the case of the woman unheard-from by her family for 7 years, you're right -- she didn't apparently break any laws.

Any lawyers out there?

No, really -- I'm not sure something has to be "illegal" for you to incur liability. I think in the RB case (where there was a false report involved) there's some clear liability. In the other, probably not.

But still, if you're a reasonably responsible individual (and you're not in danger from the people you're running away from) a little notification that some intinerent serial killer hasn't strangled you and left your body in a ditch is probably the least they can ask of you.

[seabeyond]

11. this is what i was thinking yesterday

getting ridiculous yet?????

[Divameow77]

12. It would be responsible to let your family know you are safe,

but should it be required by law to do so? When a woman leaves her violent husband should she be required to let him know she's okay? I guess she could call the police and let them know to call off the search, she's okay.
I do find it more then a little messed up to sit by and watch the country looking for you, like the runaway bride.

[Walt Starr]

13. Yup, Big Brother wants to track our every movement

The facade that this is a "free country" is sweiftly disappearing before our eyes.

Edited to add: If you ahve entered into a contractual obligation (such as marriage) you cannot simply disappear from your spouse as you have an obligation and should be held liable for that. You are under no such obligation to your blood relatives, though.

[PsyOpsRunsOurCountry]

29. GPS in cars and phones, RFID chips in ID cards, Echelon macro-bugging.!!!!

All worst case scenarios the Bill of Rights was
created to prevent are not just coming to pass, they
are being made both 'legal' and technologically enforceable.

Global Positioning System technology is already in all
cell phones and most cars. Key street intersections
are armed with cameras and sensors supposedly meant to
ticket people running red lights. Micro-cameras are
imbedded in roads. Cable TV systems routinely break
into programming with the 'Amber Alert' warning of a
fugitive on the run in your area with a little blonde
Christian girl under his dark perverted arm.

Big Brother is closing in fast with DARPA's Total
Information Awareness counter-intelligence tactic of
identifying all citizens with the National ID card
imbedded with RFID (radio frequency chip) allowing
tracking our every move if we become 'hostile' to the
powers that be. 'Patriot II' is now in Congress and
about to allow the FBI to break into anyone's home and
access any documents they please. COINTELPRO is being
made 'legal' and given super-computer-satellite
capability.

"Why are we surprised they can destroy the Constitution? Heck, it printed on PAPER!"

[Lone_Wolf]

46. Big Business wants to be able to track people as well...

Credit Card Companies don't like it when people skip out on their financial obligations leaving them holding the bag.

[Liberal In Texas]

15. I won't be a problem when everybody has the gov't chip inserted that can

be tracked via satellite.

:sarcasm: now off.

[nonconformist]

16. There is a big difference between this and the Runaway Bride

The Runaway Bride reported that she had been abducted, which was false and a crime. There was no crime in this case, and they admit as much.

I don't think that something like this will ever be made into a crime - namely because it's unconstitutional.

[Horse with no Name]

18. The only thing a person should be responsible for is his own actions

If an adult wants to evaporate--it is their right.
As long as they don't break any laws to do it.
Runaway Bride committed crimes when she left--but I still believe it was a publicity stunt geared to give her 15 min of fame with book and movie deals.
Stahr did not. She just left.
Big difference.
This is a "free" country--or used to be anyway.
Nobody should have to tell their mommy where they are if they choose not to.
If anyone should have to pay restitution--then it should be the person who instituted the search in the first place.
I'm sure had her mother been up front about there being a falling out, that the authorities wouldn't have searched so diligently for her.

[Junkdrawer]

19. No more Abbie Hoffmans huh?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1888996285/qid=1118071745/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl14/102-6324130-9813747?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. The 'Runaway Bride' was never charged for simply disappearing

She was charged with lying to police.

[BiggJawn]

38. No, but she's being sued to "recover" the costs of the Media Circus.

Didja miss that part? The business of her paying 12 kilobuck's "restituion" to the town for the "trouble" they went through looking for her?

THERE is the precedence I'm concerned about.

"Hey, we spent a BUTTLOAD of MONEY and looked like a buncha damn fOOLS looking for yer ass! You gonna have to 'make it right', know what we're talking about?"

[Javaman]

23. I think the mother should pay the police for this wild goose chase...

The mother knew why the daughter left and didn't want to contact her. It's very obvious from the daughters reaction as to not wanting to have anything to do with her family.

What gets me about this story is the gross invasion of privacy. The mother used the police and the authorities to do something that could have easily been done via googling her daughters name(that's a whole other invasion of privacy issue).

This is the line in the story that gets me: "The responsible thing to do would have been to let someone know you're OK," Malinak said. "There are going to be people expending man-hours and effort, trying to find a missing person."

So what it comes down to is money. So here's a tip, if you are going to run away or disappear from society or a nut job family member, husband or in-law, make sure you tell everyone you know before you do it, otherwise, the obsessive party that wants to find you will go to any length to do it. Because police will never ask the simple question of "why do you want to find them?" or to question the person that is looking.

I feel really bad for this poor girl, she obviously just wanted to be left alone and to live her own life. Now she has this mother, she wants nothing to do with, hounding her down.

Got to love our privacy in the country, huh?

[Protagoras]

24. Welcome to the Information Age

If you want to drop out now, you need to get out of the country...waaaay out. And stay there with no plans of returning. I'm sorry that people can't escape and start over (esp in cases of abuse)...but I doubt we'll see a return to a time when we have realy physical anonymity in this, or any other industrial country.

[BlueIris]

25. Good God. I just...I don't even know where to start.

"The responsible thing would be to let someone know you're okay." No one in that family seemed to care if she was okay before she disappeared. The mother said no one will stop her? Doesn't recognize the independence or autonomy of her adult daughter. So fucking sad. Maybe you should have cared about her before, "Mom."

[thinkingwoman]

27. two words...

restraining order.

A restraining order will stop the mother cold, or lead to her being jailed for violating it.

Abusive blood relatives should be treated like abusive strangers--with every available legal remedy enforced.

[BlueIris]

30. EXACTLY. Only, from my perspective, they're not "relatives," if

they're abusive; they're assholes the abusve victims share DNA with.

[thinkingwoman]

44. Hear! Hear!

I've got some really toxic relatives that still make my life miserable and I'm pushing 40. I'm getting ready to move as far away as possible from the worst one. I can't make it here till she dies of old age. sigh.

[BlueIris]

50. Best of luck.

Hugs.

[thinkingwoman]

54. Thanks! nt

[Gormy Cuss]

26. The responsible thing to do?

It would have been considerate of her to tell the Texas rangers that she was alive and not interested in being found. That's assuming she had any idea how much effort was being wasted on her search. She may have thought that as an adult she was free to start over without informing anyone. If I were a Ranger who had worked this case I'd be peeved, but labelling her irresponsible for starting over in another state without concealing her identity is just wrong. The excuse that they couldn't access IRS records is a distraction. They assumed she was dead. I'm betting no one thought to check credit bureau data to see if anyone was using her SSN.

This country moves close to a police state every day.

[WillowTree]

28. Absolutely!

And when your 18 or 19 or 20 year-old disappears without a trace or a word of explanation, you won't expect anyone to help you find out what happened to him or her. You'll just assume that he or she is fine and doesn't want to be found and go on with your life without giving it further thought.

Of course, if no one had looked for Laci Peterson or Lori Hacking, Scott Peterson and Mark Hacking would be walking the streets in search of their next victims.

I have no problem whatever with searches for missing persons, but I don't mind saying that I resent the hell out of thousands upon thousands of dollars of my tax money being spent on searching for people so self-centered that they can't be responsible enough to say, "I'm outta here. Don't look for me because you won't find me until and unless I decide I want to be found. Just leave me alone." When they do that, I think that they ought to have to reimburse the city/county/state for the time and money needlessly spent.

Actions ----> Consequences. It's really very simple.

[MojoXN]

31. Well, the FIRST thing that I would do...

Would be to see if anyone was using her personal data. Check her credit report, check for a forwarding address that she left at college, talk to her friends there, etc. I certainly wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she has been murdered. I doubt that any of this was done. Mama said, "I can't find my adult daughter! She MUST have been raped and killed!" And the cops took her word at face value. Just my $.02.

MojoXN

[Horse with no Name]

36. I don't agree

This "disappearance" occurred after an obviously heated argument.
Three things would come to mind

A. The mother killed her in a fit of fury.
B. She got pissed off and left.
C. She killed herself and they couldn't find her body.

A stranger abduction entering into the equation at this point doesn't make sense in light of the other facts.
Which leads me to wonder if the mother even bothered to let the authorities know about this fact because it certainly would have been helpful to know.
If she had, I am certain that the Texas Rangers could have given the mother the phone number of a good private detective to pursue this case at the expense of the parent after they ruled her out as a murder suspect.

[fob]

32. I wonder how much "college money" that mom refused to pay became

"detective money"? Grades are a shitty thing to argue over and it sounds like both sides reactions were extreme.

[spinbaby]

33. It has to be reasonably common

Because there are books devoted to telling you how to disappear:

http://tinyurl.com/9xb4w
http://tinyurl.com/bt5gr
http://tinyurl.com/7anlr

[merh]

34. Uh oh.

:hide: They'll never find me. :freak:

[Cleita]

35. I agree, she should have written to let them know she

all right, just that she didn't want to have anything to do with them for awhile. You know, I'll call you when I'm ready, so don't try to find me.

[Horse with no Name]

37. and they would have just left her alone?

Now the mother is still saying she doesn't care what the daughter wants--she is going to see her.
Sounds like the mother is an oppressive bitch.

My mother and I have one of these relationships.
Everything I do is out of obligation because she is my mother.
However, at one time, she tried to tell me (when I was 30) that I couldn't date this particular person. In fact, when he moved in, my mother came to my house and told him to leave,lol. I wasn't home at the time but my mother threw my boyfriend that I lived with out of MY house and waited for me to get home.
She had the police chief (her personal friend) come to my house every week to check on me after that since I wouldn't call her.
When I moved, she called my supervisor at work and told them that I never called her and she was worried about me.
My supervisor told me I needed to call my mother and then I got a lecture about it.
I can totally understand the need to drop away from someone like that.
I'm older now and I am more tolerant of her ways--so I call her every Sunday out of obligation since we do not live in the same state anymore.
In fact...was just advised she was coming for a visit...


Edited to add:
I was out for the evening once...wasn't expected to be home until 2 am. My mother came to my house at 8 that evening and didn't like my black babysitter--so she sent the babysitter home and took my kids to her house 30 miles away.

[Cleita]

39. If she doesn't leave a phone number or address, how is

this any different than not telling them? Not only that there wouldn't be any police involved in looking for her, which to her should be a plus. She could have written a note and mailed it on the same day, which could have given her a day's time to get out of Dodge and no traceable postmark.

Now, for your dilemma, which I understand, the only way you can deal with people like this is to confront them head on about where they stand, and with a lawyer if necessary. As an adult you have rights, because once you are eighteen those parents are no more than other adults in your life and if they are in any way trespassing on your turf or abusing you in any way you can get the law to intervene.

I knew a couple who had to get a restraining order on her mother because she didn't keep her place. This situation of her taking your children from a babysitter, you had placed in charge, is clearly kidnapping. You don't want to get your mom in trouble with the law I know, but you should let her know that if it happens again you will file charges and make sure you do.

You have to start setting boundaries with your mother because evidently she can't set them for herself. If she severs your relationship because of this, let her. You can always keep tabs through friends and relatives. I had to set boundaries with my mother when I was thirty (I should have when I was eighteen), and she refused to talk to me for a year and a half. She eventually came around a much nicer human being, too.

Good luck because my heart goes out to you.

[tenshi816]

51. Wow - your mother sounds like mine.

When I moved to the UK, my mother contacted the Home Office over here and told them I was in the country illegally (I wasn't, I was on a tourist visa at the time) because she wanted me deported back to the States. I lived in London for nearly two years before I would let her have my address, and only then because I had permanent legal residency here. Prior to that, I called and wrote, but wouldn't tell her where I was, other than "in London".

When I was still a student, she would call my university to try and find where I was supposed to be at particular times of the day, and she also did the calling-the-supervisor at work thing (soooo embarrassing, right?). Once, when I was first starting out in the working world, she wanted to sit in on a job interview with me (she didn't, BTW).

It's so hard to deal with someone like that, although I don't think I could've cut my mother off for 7 years without letting her know where I was, even though there were times I was sorely tempted.

[qnr]

40. Why is this national news in the first place?

I won't repeat arguments that have already been made, but I believe the mother should be the one making any reimbursement, since she obviously withheld pertinent information. If she did advise them then the agencies involved made the mistake by not taking it into account.

Note that I'm not against reimbursement per se. For example (to take my line of expertise), if someone calls in a fake mayday to a Coast Guard station, which ties up personnel and equipment that might be needed for a real emergency, they should be responsible for reimbursement of all the costs (not to mention arrest). I just don't think that this case deserves that.

[BiggJawn]

41. Why? Conditioning.

Now is when they plant the seeds that someday will grow into the noxious weeds of "It's your OBLIGATION as a Murkan to ALWAYS let soembody know where you are" and "Only people with something to HIDE would 'drop out' of sight. Wonder if they're Terra-ists?"

Ted Kaczynski was a "drop-out" too, remember? Those people who don't wanna be found. Bet they're UP to something...

Remember how Zik-Zak wanted to snuff out the Blanks?

[Theres-a]

52. You got it

My tinfoil thinking leads me to believe all this identity theft/missing person stuff is a setup.Here's the problem.You or your identity could be stolen.Here's the solution.RFID chips.Call me crazy,but it seems like where it's all going.

[expatriate]

42. Since when do adults have to inform their mommies

of where they are?

We don't know all the particulars here. I tend to suspect that this was a toxic familial situation, this young woman decided she'd had enough, and moved on to make a life for herself.

Being from an extremely toxic family, I've disappeared a few times myself. Sometimes it's the only way to stay sane. Rushing to judge this woman as irresponsible and unkind to her mother is faulty, because of the paucity of the information available, and the fact that most of the information being reported seems to have been gleaned from the mother.

Adults do not exist to fulfill the emotional needs of their family members. This young woman's mother's statement that she's going to go and camp out in the Sam's Club parking lot is very telling. It makes me wonder just what her motivations are - does she really want to "reunite" with her daughter, or is she looking to be the center of a lot of attention and sympathy, to say nothing of publicity? Her statement is very dramatic. If she really wanted to be reunited with her kid, why is she determined to do it in a way that she knows will garner publicity? How about writing a letter, or trying a phone call?

For all we know, the young woman's situation has been that of someone escaping an abusive situation - and yes, there are people who are abused who seem to have good circumstances, like being sent to Texas A&M. Not all abusive family situations are from the ghetto or a broken down trailer somewhere. She didn't exactly try to conceal her identity - she just moved on, got out of the familial circle, continued with her life.

The news reports on this situation are centering on the mother. We really haven't heard the young woman's side of the story. It could be she has very good reason to not want to be associated with her biological family any longer.

If the day comes that we're all obligated to contact family members about our whereabouts, we're going to be in trouble. There are lots of people out there who do not want anything to do with their families, myself included in the case of most of my family members.

Sure hope some conservative jerkball in Congress doesn't decide to come up with some half-assed law that everyone now has to let their mommy know where they are all the time, piggyback it onto a "must pass" bill, and make it law. What'll be next, the "sweater bill", where we all have to wear a sweater if our mother says we do?

[qnr]

45. If they passed it, I think I'd contact my mother every time I moved

from room to room, went to the mailbox, etc. Well, not really, but I don't associate with my family, and it is something I'd contemplate.

[BiggJawn]

49. There probably will be some "Half-assed law" introduced....

The "Local First-Responder's resource Conservation Act of 2006" or some such shit, making it a federal CRIME to drop out without letting someone know where you are.

The rationale will be that our local police agencies spend a lot of money going off half-cocked for the Teeeee-Veeee cameras, and if you've "caused" them to spoend that money, they you will pay them back.
After you get out of Levenworth, of course.....

Wonder what the local Chamber of Commerces have to say? "Hey, those network people spent a LOT of money while they were here. D'ya think we can encourage her to run away AGAIN?"

[kskiska]

47. My mother's best friend disappeared in 1951.

Left her husband and her two young boys and ran off with the old guy next door she'd been having an affair with. The police traced them to the RR station, but as her parents were ashamed and didn't want the story in the newspapers, there wasn't much that could be done. My mother was interviewed by the cops, who told her that no crime was committed, except possibly abandonment. Bernice was never heard from again. The two boys were raised by their maternal grandparents. We got the puppy their father bought for them. The grandparents wouldn't let them have her.

[Pockets]

53. "she's still pissed at her mom"

The article indicates Stahr is still pissed at her mom. I can see why. Her mom pulled the rug out from under her college education and now she's stuck working at Sam's Club. She ought to be pissed.