Papers reveal JFK efforts on Vietnam

[shawmut]

Papers reveal JFK efforts on Vietnam

By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | June 6, 2005


WASHINGTON -- Newly uncovered documents from both American and Polish archives show that President John F. Kennedy and the Soviet Union secretly sought ways to find a diplomatic settlement to the war in Vietnam, starting three years before the United States sent combat troops.

Kennedy, relying on his ambassador to India, John Kenneth Galbraith, planned to reach out to the North Vietnamese in April 1962 through a senior Indian diplomat, according to a secret State Department cable that was never dispatched

Back-channel discussions also were attempted in January 1963, this time through the Polish government, which relayed the overture to Soviet leaders. New Polish records indicate Moscow was much more open than previously thought to using its influence with North Vietnam to cool a Cold War flash point.

****

The documents are seen by former Kennedy aides as new evidence of his true intentions in Vietnam. The question of whether Kennedy would have escalated the war or sought some diplomatic exit has been heatedly debated by historians and officials who served under both Kennedy and his successor, Lyndon B. Johnson.

When Kennedy was assassinated in November 1963, there were 16,000 US military advisers in Vietnam. The number of troops grew to more than 500,000, and the war raged for another decade.



http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/06/papers_reveal_jfk_efforts_on_vietnam/

[bryant69]

1. The Best and the Brightest

Talks a bit about how Kennedy was the Skeptic in his presidency. He, to a certain extent, surrounded himself with passionate and committed and optomistic men, adn then reigned them inw hen they went to far (in his opinion). When Kennedy died, Johnson's attitude was much more can do and much less skeptical. Kind of like removing the brakes to your car while installing an additional engine.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[candy]

2. Did he actually reach out on April '62 or January "63? No!

He listened to his advisors,as they all do.

I don't think the war would have ended sooner had JFK not been assasinated.

It's all just part of the Camelot myth!

[DrDebug]

3. It wouldn't have gotten out of control like it did

JFK even tried to get the number of advisors down from 16,000 to 6,000. So it is very unlikely that JFK would have gone for all out war. And quite soon after the assassination it did start to spin out of control.

He may not have ended the war, but he wouldn't have made a huge war out of it either.

[hedda_foil]

4. And you're so sure of this how?

The tearing down of JFK's achievements and the change he represented has been a consistent Republican theme from the start. The Camelot business was a nice literary conceit by Ted Sorenson. The true wonder of the Kennedy years will never be forgotten by anyone who was privileged to live in America during his 1,000 days in office. I'm fucking sick and tired of DUers buying into the rw revisionism of his presidency.

[candy]

18. I don't understand your question. Am I sure of "what "how?

[nomatrix]

29. I'll help you

You don't know Jack!

[candy]

31. I didn't have to know him to express an opinion,did I?

I also read the article!

If you DID know JFK,please enlighten me.

[Just Me]

32. Hey, candy,...

,...have you read the rest of the thread? If so, did the information change your opinion?

Jus' wonderin' :shrug:

[candy]

34. No ! n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. Is anyone here surprised by your answer? No.

[johnaries]

11. He wouldn't have lied about the Tonkin Gulf incident like Johnson did,

which means our involvement may have never gotten past "military advisors".

[PeaceProgProsp]

16. It looks like he did reach out in '63.

[Zen Democrat]

19. NSAM #263 is not a myth. It's a fact.

That it was rescended within days of Kennedy's murder by NSAM 273 is also a fact.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. Bingo! NSAM 273 was also drafted the day before JFK was killed....

...and none of JFK's writings, or the writings of anyone on JFK's staff, mention working on the subject of escalating the Vietnam War.

So, who drafted NSAM 273, and why was it done without JFK's knowledge? And why did LBJ sign it just four days after JFK was assassinated?

[Zerex71]

23. That's bull.

For the life of me, I can't see why people don't want to believe that he was a great President, who had just about every quality that Chimpus Maximus does not. He was an incredibly intelligent, articulate, clear-headed thinker and certainly used his powers for good.

If it says he wanted to end the war, why the cynical attitude that he really didn't want to end the war? Furthermore, how much more clear does it have to be when official documents have been unearthed basically saying that he wanted to end the war? What does it take to wake people up from their ignorant slumber?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. You don't do much of your own research, do you?...

That's painfully obvious to anyone reading your comments.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. Chomsky is of the opinion...

that Kennedy was not trying to get out. I'm at work, so I can't look it up, but I will later. Facinating how history has be so completely re-written. I'm never sure now if what I'm learning is truth or lie.

[glitch]

26. True - and Chomsky is not always right.

He's right quite a bit of the time, but not always.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

42. I think I agree...

Haven't finished watching it, but there have been a few thing he says, that I don't agree with.
They have one scene with friends of his saying how he could be in danger because he speaks out. I don't discount that speaking out could get him hurt, but it seemed a little over-the-top. IMHO

I WANT HIS JOB! though. His wife says, he reads 80% of the time, and the other 20%, talks about it. My dream job!

[PsyOpsRunsOurCountry]

6. He signed NSAM#263 to leave Nam. LBJ signed #273 drafted 11/21/63.

Revelations and spin around JFK's assassination and Vietnam are at the heart of information about the CIA and its role in history which requires deep examination of National Security Advisory Memorandum #263 (Kennedy's 'get out of Vietnam' memo)and NSAM #273 (LBJ's 'stay in Vietnam' memo suspiciously drafted the day before JKF was shot).

Many who admire Noam Chomsky's work consider one his blind spots to be
the JFK assassination and here is his 1993 comment on these NSAMs as a way to jump into the topic at the deep end.
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/rc/rc-c02-s13.html

L. Fletcher Prouty's 1973 book 'The Secret Team:The CIA and Its Allies in Control of the United States and the World,' is a must-read to understand anything about post-WWII America when the CIA took over pretty much everything in government and the press in their role as the American KGB.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html

Investigator Mae Brussell (deceased) is also a must-read and well-respected by scholars not in the pay of the CIA which was formed with Nazi intelligence assets allied with East Coast old money fascists who supported Hitler in the 20s through WWII. Here is
'The Nazi Connection to the Assassination of JFK'
http://maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Nazi%20Connection%20to%20JFK%20Assass.html


Personally, I've looked at the topic quite thoroughly and trust the account by (retired Air Force-CIA liason 1955-1964) L. Fletcher Prouty as the most reliable and rational with lots of corroboration if you have the time to look. Here is my summary of the situation:

The CIA was running operations in Nam after helping the French in the 50s. Massive profits from Golden Triangle opium/heroin for their covert activities and personal fortunes plus war-profiteering for the Military Industrial Complex back home were the real reasons for staying in Vietnam.

Kennedy came to realize the CIA was his biggest problem after the Bay of Pigs disaster which was already in planning under VP Nixon's supervision when JFK took office due to election fraud (an old problem). This was a surprise obstacle for the Prescott Bush-Nixon fascist cabal who were already planning how to spend all the money they would make in Vietnam with weapons contracts already allocated to the 'correct' congressional districts. Lots of people were getting rich on war, just like today.

Kennedy fired CIA Director Allen Dulles (one the leaders of the Bush-Nazi-supporters in the 30s and 40s who armed Hitler) and spoke of tearing apart the CIA to restore the presidency to elected officials. He thereby signed his own death warrant. When JKF signed NSAM #263 to pull 'advisors' out of Vietnam, the hit squads comprised of mercenary Mafia triggers and Cuban exiles (plausible deniability assets which CIA still uses today) were already being organized to kill him in either Miami, Chicago, or Dallas.

A CIA-assisted coup and killing of the problematic US puppet leader of South Vietnam without Kennedy's permission was the last straw for JFK as he realized he had no control over the CIA which was carrying out its own 'foreign policy' with nuclear missiles barely contained in Cold War tensions.

NSAM#273 was drafted the day before JFK was murdered and LBJ signed it a few days later thereby putting the Vietnam War back on track at full speed. LBJ was cooperative with CIA policies where JFK had been a roadblock. LBJ urged Defense Secretary Robert McNamara to charge into Vietnam despite McNamara's early voiced misgivings about the whole thing, much like the inside dramas leading to the US invasion of Iraq.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/FRUSno194.html

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/USO/appB.html

[Toots]

7. NSAM#273 was drafted the day before JFK was murdered

This is the first I have ever heard of either of these memos. If what you say is true exactly who drafted this memo?

[DrDebug]

9. McGeorge Bundy

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbundyM.htm

[AX10]

10. JFK was done away with because he stood with the people...

against he powerful establishments that dictate what happens! Vietnam was good for DAS defense contractors and JFK got in their way.

[Octafish]

13. Great post! Thank you.

And a hearty welcome to DU, syOpsRunsOurCountry. Really like the moniker.

[PsyOpsRunsOurCountry]

15. I learned from you, Octafish. This connects to BOLTON and CHINA! Read on:

“…a secret State Department cable that was never sent.”

The CIA controlled all State Department cable traffic at this time as it no doubt does today. So a peace party was planned but someone making money on war threw away the invitations back in 1963.

There’s evidence that this tactic was in play with the nomination of John Bolton as US Ambassador to the UN, someone who recently shot off his mouth and derailed negotiations with North Korea at a critical moment in diplomacy.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/14/51516/5747

Why would he sabotage the Six Party negotiations?

Keeping South Korea and Japan afraid of North Korea keeps them looking to the US for protection and helping to hem in China with military bases and surveillance. China, of course, is the US's biggest competitor for oil supplies which the US military and economy (same thing) depend on.

Now even CIA Director Porter Goss is being shut out of the tiny cabal running the White House's planning for world domination. The circle of power is closing ranks.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1069065,00.html

These are extremely dangerous times as the fascist cabal eliminates every possible impediment to their unfettered wars.

And DU-ers are still busy talking about Korans in the toilet. Yikes.

[fooj]

17. Extremely dangerous times, indeed! Welcome to DU!

Thank you for your post. Very informative...we've got to break that "circle of power" before it breaks us!

peace.

[understandinglife]

14. Welcome to DU! Very interesting post. (nt)

http://www.intelligencesquad.com/id118.html

Peace.

We have all the evidence of mendacity and illegal war-making we need to indict and prosecute Bush, Blair and every other neoconster scum-bag on the planet having any involvement in the Bush's illegal war on Iraq and all the torture and other atrocities that have been committed since August 2002.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Just Me]

20. I don't know who you are,...

,...but, I am really REALLY glad you are here!!!! :hi:

Thank you for your contributions!!!

:yourock:

[PsyOpsRunsOurCountry]

24. Old anti-Vietnam leftie who's learned lots reading Octafish, bobthedrummer

seamslikeadream, anarchy99, eloriel, al-CIAda, many others.

As an amatuer historian and journalist, I've found lots of suppressed info at this amazing website that makes our absurd world all make sense.

Who would've thunk that was even possible?

Now to figure out how to make knowing things...matter.

[Just Me]

27. That's a toughie,...

,..."how to make knowing things,...matter."

There are those who act as an obstacle to knowledge. We have to overcome that barrier, first.

[Wind Dancer]

30. Welcome, PsyOps!

Great post, glad to have another kindred spirit aboard.

[PsyOpsRunsOurCountry]

40. Thanks! Though your greeting is a little scary, I know what you mean.

We are governed using military tactics which can be seen and anticipated. If Americans knew who was lying to them on TV everyday and why, they wouldn't send their kids to Fallujah to 'defend our freedom.'

I wish our representatives and entertainers would get that message out since the corporate press is on the 'other' side, one of the most powerful weapons used against us.

So I'm hoping some of the John Conyers-Russ Feingold-Barbara Boxer-types
have atleast staff that look at du and learn some hidden facts.

You can never be too reality-based.

[robertpaulsen]

28. Nice post, PsyOps!

Kickin' and savin' this thread. Thanks!

:kick:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. Intelligence off the reservation, opium and war.

I hear bells ringing.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. Look also at the military in 1963. Pay particular attention to the....

...Joint Chiefs of Staff, who were the others of Operation Northwoods that JFK refused to authorize:

<http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/>

Look also at the owners of Big Oil in 1963...they hated JFK.

The Mafia was also involved in our operations against Cuba in the early 1960s...and also had a bone to pick with JFK because of the deal they thought they had with Joe Kennedy.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. "Pretexts" and "invasion"... More bells ringing.

Where the hell is Quasimodo?

[PsyOpsRunsOurCountry]

8. Hey-someone put this in LBN. My post #6 shows how this is like Iraq today.

This is not old history. The tactics and players are still at it in the 'Global War on Terror' or Operation Oil Grab.

Interestingly, some of my links to these topics have recently been redirected to unrelated webpages.

SAVE SCREEN SHOTS AND PRINT OUT INFORMATION BEFORE IT DISAPPEARS.
We are being watched and tracks are being covered at this very minute.

[Just Me]

21. Wish we could but it no longer qualifies as LBN.

Too bad. It appears it wasn't even posted when it did qualify as LBN.

[Octafish]

12. Truth

''It's another clear indication that my brother was very reluctant to accept the strong recommendations he was getting to send troops to Vietnam," Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, told the Globe on Friday after reviewing the cable to Galbraith. ''It's hard to believe that Jack would ever have allowed the tentative steps he took in those days to escalate into the huge military crisis that Vietnam became."

[fooj]

25. Truth is our most powerful weapon!

:patriot:

[Just Me]

33. And our cause is to push truth through intentionally placed obstacles.

An honorable and worthy cause which advances our people, all people!!!

[hiley]

22. Thank you for this post

very interesting and useful.
hiley