Are victims of NPD more aware and critical of Bush?

[Writer]

I have written on a few occasions about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), and how I believe Bush possesses many symptoms comprising this disorder. I think it's enough to say that anyone who has been a victim of a person with this disorder has experienced emotional trauma and is especially keen to those who have characteristics indicative of NPD.

I read a book last year discussing how an entire workplace can acquire narcissistic traits, which spreads from policies and standards from the head of the company down through the ranks. Several years ago, I survived such a workplace. In spite of the trauma, I still advocate the discussion of this heavily overlooked psychological disorder. In my opinion, knowledge is the best weapon against NPD.

Bush brings back many bad memories. His administration operates like that of a narcissistic workplace: heavy emphasis on loyalty, the ostracizing or extreme punishment of critics, and the focus on management as a cult of personality.

Perhaps for many Americans, having personal knowledge of NPD may not be necessary. They simply sense that something is awry but can't quite put their finger on it. Or they use more generic descriptors such as arrogant or childish.

Are there other survivors of NPD here on DU who want to take a stab at this?

Writer.

P.S. Here is a link listing the qualities of the full-blown disorder versus the qualities of the narcissistic "style." Many people possess a few of the symptoms, as we all are fairly narcissistic as children. The difference, of course, is that as a "normal" person grows, he or she sheds herself of those traits. The narcissist does not.

http://www.psychpage.com/learning/library/person/narc.html

[SteppingRazor]

1. Unfortunately, the list of symptoms at the link...

Could easily describe 90% of the politicians in Washington. So Bush is well-attended.

[Writer]

3. Not necessarily. Not every narcissist is malignant.

Malignant narcissism manifests itself as exceedingly destructive behavior to his or herself and to others. A person can possess these traits, such as Clinton, but not every narcissist mindlessly sends troops to their deaths, actively destroys the reputation of dissenters, threatens or even causes bodily harm to those seen as "enemies," etc.

To simply dismiss all politicians as narcissists - and "oh well" - trivilizes the very real problem that I see in Bush. He's a very sick individual.

[SteppingRazor]

6. Sure.

But is NPD the most logical diagnosis? Why not antisocial personality disorder? The same amount of megalomania, only with the added bonus of no conscience. Seems more along his lines.

[Writer]

9. I don't know for sure. The sad thing is, we will never know.

Whether it's NPD or some type of anti-social personality disorder, there is still a very sick individual at the helm of this nation.

I personally think it's NPD. The sad thing is, many Americans put him at that helm. I think if more have experienced this disorder, or at least had been educated, Bush never would have gotten close to the oval office.

[marions ghost]

14. in malignant NPD

there is no conscience--none. That's why you can't get through to these people by appealing to commonly held notions of fairness. Pathological NPD is every bit as scary as borderline personality disorder which it can be associated with in extreme cases. NO conscience.

People misunderstand the term "narcissistic" and think this is something much less benign than it is. Narcissist Personality Disorder is very destructive and it is so insidious because such people often function in society at a fairly high level (even while they leave their victims strewn behind them). Abuse by a maligant narcissist often has a "hit and run" quality I have found. Pre-meditated power grabs are their specialty. They need a constant flow of such conquests--the narcissist "supply"--like a vampire needs blood. Exploitation of others feels perfectly normal. They feel they are very special and therefore entitled to use others for their own ends.

I think that the current administration fits the MALIGNANT NPD model to a T.

[marions ghost]

19. re. this discussion

about NPD and Bush --it seems like not many people are really aware of the whole syndrome, although they can recognise various negative traits of course. I would have to say that before I encountered it in my own life (in both cases involving groups of narcissists and their co-dependents), it would not have been as clear to me how it is operational in the case of the Bushbots. I have a friend in psychology who believes that NPD is being triggered in more individuals now as the stress in our society increases.

I agree with you, Writer, that those who have been victimized by pathological narcissists before, have worked through it, and KNOW what happened to them, are likely to be more sensitive to the abuses of the Bush administration. In some ways it helps to get beyond the blind anger and frustration to see them as sick. Not that I'm advocating letting anybody off the hook. But it is important to recognize that these people do not have normal emotions and do not respond to normal strategies of containment. They have no fear of punishment, believing they are above the law. They have to be stripped of power through their own wrongdoing --is about the only way they ever fall. Clearly our legal system is not strong enough to deal with these kinds of criminals.

[acmejack]

2. That sounds a lot like a company I once worked for!

A computer manufacturer located in Round Rock, TX. "heavy emphasis on loyalty, the ostracizing or extreme punishment of critics, and the focus on management as a cult of personality." Yeah, they sure have those symptoms...

[Writer]

4. My company was in Fort Worth.

Is this a Texas thing?

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. WOW describes a company I USED to write for

of course they also stole much, but that is antoher story...

I am left to wonder if this is a texas problem for other ressons

[Writer]

7. Are you kidding - you also experienced this in Texas?

Some other ex-Texans and I were discussing why this type of atmosphere seems so prevalent down there. The son of my friend had a great response:

"Because it's materialistic, heathenistic, and narcissistic."

I think that sums up Texas society to a T.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Yep one company stole thigns

the other got an IP excision contract... to say the least they were not happy.

Is this a texas thing?

On edit the first one started in texas but moved out of state, still makes you wonder

[Writer]

10. One of my experiences with NPD involved a man who cheated...

on his travel expense vouchers to collect extra money to support an overly lavish lifestyle. He then moved on to begin his own company in Texas, but relocated to Florida. A couple of years later, the state was investigating him for tax evasion.

The man was very ill. Don't they have shock therapy for folks like this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Well these days I run my own company, just started

and I don't work for nobody without a contract, it is at times maddening to see what we gave them as sugestioosn implemented, badly implemented

[Trish1168]

12. Did we work together? You described my work place from '98 to '03

I have the same insight/opinion as you. The Bush admin. is just like where I used to work. I read the book called "Bush on the couch". The author felt Bush has megalomania (and ADHD, dyslexia and alcoholism). The VP of my company also appears to have been a megalomaniac. He differed from W in that he was very smart and extremely ambitious (author of a number of scientific texts).

Our VP demanded loyalists. He just couldn't stand to be told he was wrong. He also didn't want to hear bad news. Reality didn't seem to matter to him. He also behaved "above the rules" on a few issues, and appeared ethically challenged. All of the good and professional people (the Colin Powell types) were forced out. The VP promoted up the yes-men (who are by definition, incompetent).

And I too, observed the whole culture trend in a weird group-think mentality. It was cultish, to say the least. For speaking up, I was branded a pot-stirrer and trouble maker. Even after I left, they bashed me. They were monitoring my e-mails to the few friends I had that still worked there, and even threatened to sue me if I didn't cease and desist (they didn't like the insulting comments I made of the various psychologically challenged people that worked there). They also threatened their employees over their e-mails to each other. No dissent was allowed (even in jest). They made it known to everyone that their e-mails were monitored, and even their badges were being used to track their presence in the building. It was a sick place. What struck me as weird was just how vindictive they were. It was never enough to simply insult someone behind their back or to deny them opportunity....they wanted them fired or their character destroyed. I stayed too long, and have become hypervigilant in the work place (PTSD?).

In any case, W's administration seems so similar. I am very familiar with NPD, because I encountered a number of them in that sicko work place. NPD's flourish when the guy in charge has megalomania (a narcissist is the ultimate suck-up). I discovered the NPD through the internet (trying to gain insight on my co-workers). People with NPD can bring so much turmoil to a work place that fosters it.

I believe I worked with at least a couple with NPD, and some had other disorders (histrionic, dependent and/or paranoid). That place was devided into two camps....the normal thinkers and the twisted people. Most of my friends (the normal people) are gone now. I hate to think of what's there now.:crazy:

PS. I'm in a rational environment at work now. Life is so much better.

[Trish1168]

13. FYI......my sicko whacked out ex-workplace was in true blue MA

Its not just a Texas thing (although, I have family there and was always disturbed at how the felt that Texas was the center of the universe).

[Eloriel]

15. What's the name of the book?

Another you might find helpful or interesting is "The Addictive Organizatin" by Anne Wilson Schaef.

[donkeyotay]

16. Interesting theory. I just thought they were a crime family

1) heavy emphasis on loyalty
2) ostracizing or extreme punishment of critics (discipline of ranks)
3)management as a cult of personality. (The GOP as a gang? A cult of religion, warfare and profit?)

I imagine that Tony Soprano is in the WH and it all makes sense.

[marions ghost]

18. "Narcissism in the Boardroom"--does NPD fit?

I'm thinking Enron, Worldcom, Martha Stewart, Bush administration....??? Suggest to read the whole article--here are snips:
--------------------------
Note to Moderators:
"The text on this page may be freely reproduced and distributed.
If you have any questions about this, please check out http://www.totse.com/en/politics/corporatarchy/narcissisminth172197.html
-----------------------------
"Narcissism in the Board Room" by Sam Vaknin

The perpetrators of the recent spate of financial frauds in the USA acted with callous disregard for both their employees and shareholders - not to mention other stakeholders. Psychologists have often remote-diagnosed them as "malignant, pathological narcissists".
(snip)

The narcissist cares only about appearances. What matters to him are the facade of wealth and its attendant social status and narcissistic supply. Witness the travestied extravagance of Tyco's Denis Kozlowski. Media attention only exacerbates the narcissist's addiction and makes it incumbent on him to go to ever-wilder extremes to secure uninterrupted supply from this source.

The narcissist lacks empathy - the ability to put himself in other people's shoes. He does not recognize boundaries - personal, corporate, or legal. Everything and everyone are to him mere instruments, extensions, objects unconditionally and uncomplainingly available in his pursuit of narcissistic gratification.

This makes the narcissist perniciously exploitative. He uses, abuses, devalues, and discards even his nearest and dearest in the most chilling manner. The narcissist is utility- driven, obsessed with his overwhelming need to reduce his anxiety and regulate his labile sense of self-worth by securing a constant supply of his drug - attention. American executives acted without compunction when they raided their employees' pension funds - as did Robert Maxwell a generation earlier in Britain.
(snip)

Punishing the wayward narcissist is a veritable catch-22.
A jail term is useless as a deterrent if it only serves to focus attention on the narcissist. Being infamous is second best to being famous - and far preferable to being ignored. The only way to effectively punish a narcissist is to withhold narcissistic supply from him and thus to prevent him from becoming a notorious celebrity.

(snip)
Narcissistic immunity is the (erroneous) feeling, harboured by the narcissist, that he is impervious to the consequences of his actions, that he will never be effected by the results of his own decisions, opinions, beliefs, deeds and misdeeds, acts, inaction, or membership of certain groups, that he is above reproach and punishment, that, magically, he is protected and will miraculously be saved at the last moment. Hence the audacity, simplicity, and transparency of some of the fraud and corporate looting in the 1990's. Narcissists rarely bother to cover their traces, so great is their disdain and conviction that they are above mortal laws and wherewithal.

(snip)
Narcissists are possessed of inordinate abilities to charm, to convince, to seduce, and to persuade. Many of them are gifted orators and intellectually endowed. Many of them work in in politics, the media, fashion, show business, the arts, medicine, or business, and serve as religious leaders. By virtue of their standing in the community, their charisma, or their ability to find the willing scapegoats, they do get exempted many times. Having recurrently "got away with it" - they develop a theory of personal immunity, founded upon some kind of societal and even cosmic "order" in which certain people are above punishment. But there is a fourth, simpler, explanation. The narcissist lacks self-awareness. Divorced from his true self, unable to empathise (to understand what it is like to be someone else), unwilling to constrain his actions to cater to the feelings and needs of others - the narcissist is in a constant dreamlike state.

(snip)
Cooked books, corporate fraud, bending the (GAAP or other) rules, sweeping problems under the carpet, over-promising, making grandiose claims (the "vision thing") - are hallmarks of a narcissist in action. When social cues and norms encourage such behaviour rather than inhibit it - in other words, when such behaviour elicits abundant narcissistic supply - the pattern is reinforced and become entrenched and rigid. Even when circumstances change, the narcissist finds it difficult to adapt, shed his routines, and replace them with new ones. He is trapped in his past success. He becomes a swindler.

But pathological narcissism is not an isolated phenomenon. It is embedded in our contemporary culture. The West's is a narcissistic civilization. It upholds narcissistic values and penalizes alternative value-systems. From an early age, children are taught to avoid self-criticism, to deceive themselves regarding their capacities and attainments, to feel entitled, and to exploit others.
(snip)

Otto Kernberg, a notable scholar of personality disorders, confirmed Lasch's intuition: "Society can make serious psychological abnormalities, which already exist in some percentage of the population, seem to be at least superficially appropriate." In their book "Personality Disorders in Modern Life", Theodore Millon and Roger Davis state, as a matter of fact, that pathological narcissism was once the preserve of "the royal and the wealthy" and that it "seems to have gained prominence only in the late twentieth century".

(snip)
------------------------------
Yet, can families, organizations, ethnic groups, churches, and even whole nations be safely described as "narcissistic" or "pathologically self-absorbed"? Can we talk about a "corporate culture of narcissism"?

Human collectives - states, firms, households, institutions, political parties, cliques, bands - acquire a life and a character all their own. The longer the association or affiliation of the members, the more cohesive and conformist the inner dynamics of the group, the more persecutory or numerous its enemies, competitors, or adversaries, the more intensive the physical and emotional experiences of the individuals it is comprised of, the stronger the bonds of locale, language, and history - the more rigorous might an assertion of a common pathology be.

Such an all-pervasive and extensive pathology manifests itself in the behavior of each and every member. It is a defining - though often implicit or underlying - mental structure. It has explanatory and predictive powers. It is recurrent and invariable - a pattern of conduct melding distorted cognition and stunted emotions. And it is often vehemently denied.

[marions ghost]

17. Other facts about NPD

http://samvak.tripod.com/npdglance.html
Dr Sam Vaknin

What is Narcissism?

A pattern of traits and behaviours which signify infatuation and obsession with one's self to the exclusion of all others and the egotistic and ruthless pursuit of one's gratification, dominance and ambition.
--------------------------
1. Most narcissists (50-75%, according to the DSM-IV-TR) are men.

2. The Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is one of a "family" of personality disorders (known as "Cluster B"). Other members of Cluster B are Borderline PD, Antisocial PD and Histrionic PD.

3. NPD is often diagnosed with other mental health disorders ("co-morbidity") – or with substance abuse and impulsive and reckless behaviours ("dual diagnosis").

4. NPD is new (1980) mental health category in the Diagnostic and Statistics Manual (DSM).

5. There is only scant research regarding narcissism. But what there is has not demonstrated any ethnic, social, cultural, economic, genetic, or professional predilection to NPD.

6. It is estimated that 0.7-1% of the general population suffer from NPD. The lifetime prevalence rate of NPD is approximately 0.5-1 percent; however, the estimated prevalence in clinical settings is approximately 2-16 percent. Almost 75 percent of individuals diagnosed with NPD are male (APA, DSM IV-TR 2000)."
--------------
From the Abstract of Psychotherapeutic Assessment and Treatment of Narcissistic Personality Disorder By Robert C. Schwartz,Ph.D., DAPA and Shannon D. Smith, Ph.D., DAPA (American Psychotherapy Association, Article #3004 Annals July/August 2002)
---------------
--Pathological narcissism was first described in detail by Freud. Other major contributors are: Klein, Horney, Kohut, Kernberg, Millon, Roningstam, Gunderson, Hare.

--The onset of narcissism is in infancy, childhood and early adolescence. It is commonly attributed to childhood abuse and trauma inflicted by parents, authority figures, or even peers.

--There is a whole range of narcissistic reactions – from the mild, reactive and transient to the permanent personality disorder.

--Narcissistic Supply is outside attention – usually positive (adulation, affirmation, fame, celebrity) – used by the narcissist to regulate his labile sense of self-worth.

--Narcissists are either "cerebral" (derive their Narcissistic Supply from their intelligence or academic achievements) or "somatic" (derive their Narcissistic Supply from their physique, exercise, physical or sexual prowess and romantic or physical "conquests").
--Narcissists are either "classic" or they are "compensatory", or "inverted" .

--The classic narcissist is self-confident, the compensatory narcissist covers up in his haughty behaviour for a deep-seated deficit in self-esteem, and the inverted type is a co-dependent who caters to the emotional needs of a classic narcissist.

--NPD is treated in talk therapy (psychodynamic or cognitive-behavioural). The prognosis for an adult narcissist is poor, though his adaptation to life and to others can improve with treatment. Medication is applied to side-effects and behaviours (such as mood or affect disorders and obsession-compulsion) – usually with some success.

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