A small clue Senator Clinton, stop whining about how hard it is, and ...

[understandinglife]

... START DOING IT.

What you and all your colleagues have cluelessly, totally frigging missed is that you have millions of Americans ready to do everything it takes to restore America.

So, stop this type of bullshit:

"It's very hard to stop people who have no shame about what they're doing. It is very hard to tell people that they are making decisions that will undermine our checks and balances and constitutional system of government who don't care. It is very hard to stop people who have never been acquainted with the truth.""
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/06/nyregion/06cnd-hillary.html?ei=5090&en=b58541f817436370&ex=1275710400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

It would be a whole bunch easier if you and every Democratic member of the Senate and HR did the following:

1. STOP business-as-usual;

2. REFUSE to cooperate in any way with the current administration;

3. RETURN to your States and districts and spend every day meeting with the citizens in those States and Districts explaining to them why Bush and Cheney must be impeached, why numerous members of Bush's administration must be indicted and prosecuted, and why you will not allow any momentum on any legislation or appointments until a logistically sensible, multi-national cooperative plan for the removal of ALL US NATIONALS from Iraq has been adopted.

Get real Senator Clinton. Just whom do you think your rhetoric fools. Maybe the person you see in the mirror, but certainly not any of us.

Peace.


Emad Hajjaj, Al-Ghad Newspaper, Amman, Jordan

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - We have all the evidence of mendacity and illegal war-making we need to indict and prosecute Bush, Blair and every other neoconster scum-bag on the planet having any involvement in the Bush's illegal war on Iraq and all the torture and other atrocities that have been committed since August 2002.

[undeterred]

1. Well, that should do it.

[saracat]

2. I am not a great Hillary fan. She has disappointed me a lot, but this is a

really simplistic solution and very unfair to not only Hillary but others in her position. Remember, even if every blasted Dem voted exactly the way the most liberal of us would approve( And I am one of those) we just don't have the votes to do much of anything.That is the sad truth.Your solutions wouldn't accomplish much of anything . They might make a point but no oner would care. Some of these people are doing the best they can under awful circumstances and have to be grateful that every great while something sneaks through!

[understandinglife]

6. Disagree.

Nothing simple about what I propose.

Nothing simple is going to stop the avalanche of Bush and the neoconsters ruthless imperialism and anti-Americanism.

All the business-as-usual options ended on Dec 9 2000.

Continuing to behave as if it is otherwise is going to ensure the demise of America and civilization.

These folk are totally beyond the law.

Senator Clinton gets it -- her words could not be clearer.

I admire her or I would not have written what I did.

If she and Kerry and Kennedy and Reid and Boxer and Conyers and ... called a STOP and began explaining why to Americans, the response would be overwhelmingly what happens when Leaders Lead - not just in America but throughout the world.

Only the bold and brave are going to prevail and the time for accomplishing a halt to the massive atrocities and destruction of American and civilization by Bush and his neoconster fellow criminals is NOW; especially if it is to be done peacefully and within the law.

Thank you for your comments.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[saracat]

9. I wish you were right. Maybe you are but we still don't have the

votes in Congress and half of the American voters don't give a damn!

[understandinglife]

16. But she has millions of Americans who do get it and are desperate...

.... for bold, precise, unrelenting leadership.

If she, Kerry, Conyers, Boxer, Slaughter, Reid, Waters, Kennedy, .... stood side by side and said STOP. We will not allow any more killing, any more atrocities, any more torture, any more ... in the name of "America" she/they would have way more than votes.

They would have ethics, truth, justice and millions of Americans and multi-millions of world citizens on their side.

The time for politics and business as usual are over.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[saracat]

20. You have more faith in the American public than I do. Keep those beautiful

thoughts!

[understandinglife]

23. Thank you. Those thoughts are based on the fact that more than 58 million

.... of our fellow citizens voted for Senator Kerry and many more since then have grown to realize how awful Bush is.

Today, a substantial young house painter discussed with my wife how he and his wife have grown increasingly angry at Bush and all he represents. They have come to those sentiments, reluctantly, during the past six months. They also know Fox does not provide anything close to truthful news.

If Senators Clinton, Kerry and others just took the 'bully pulpit' as their own and delivered unequivocal, persistent calls for justice and truth, they would find they have a very large constituency, spread through all States.

We just need to convince them to Lead; the job we elected them to do.

We just need to begin acting like a Board of Directors, which we are, who happen not to be at all pleased with the performance of our management team (as Molly Ivins much more eloquently noted recently).

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[sasquatch]

3. Yeah, they won't do it until Biden and Lieberman are gone

You see when we've got REAL democrats in their place then we can accomplish all those other goals.

[Fiona]

4. She IS being real

I suggest some people here "get real".

Shutting down "business as usual" would be a devastating blow... to Democrats! We would be, rightly, portrayed as childish, whiny, uncooperative and obstinate. The things that would please the far left would greatly piss off the rest of Americans.

Senator Clinton is dealing with what's real, not with some left-wing fantasy world.

[linazelle]

5. What she said is true...and your suggestions don't seem to be

helpful in that they would only provide ammo for the many enemies with their sights set on ruining her presidential run.

[Raster]

7. I completely agree. Congress, repugs and dems, have plenty of blame to

shoulder for the current sorry state of affairs.

1) Let's not pretend the election infrastructure was all hearts and flowers before 2000. It wasn't. Congress has been aware of problems and irregularities since the 60's. If Congress had been truly interested in making sure every vote was counted and counted accurately, Congress could have done so a long time ago. The dirty little secret is that Congress really didn't want the American electorate to take elections all that seriously. There isn't a one of you that wants the American public to truly scrutinize just whose interests you all really serve.

2) ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS play the money game. There's not a soul on Capital Hill that doesn't spend far too much time whoring for dollars. Even the best of you makes decisions at times that are not in the best interests of the people, but in the best interests of your pocketbook.

3) Power corrupts. Period. Even the most honest and straight-forward will eventually be tainted by corruption.

[understandinglife]

8. Respectfully, to posters # 2, 4 & 5 -- read "Defying Hitler" by ...

.... Sebastian Haffner.

Let's dialogue after you've done so.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Fiona]

10. ah

so our opinions can't count until we've read your assigned reading list. I'll let you know when I've completed the assignment - but don't wait around.

[understandinglife]

12. Not the message. Just a suggestion of something I thought you would ...

.... find useful.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Melodybe]

24. Sorry, but I agree, you guys need to wake up, this is fascism

with almost every vote OUR democrats are selling our rights down the river (NEW FREEDOM COMISSIONS ANY ONE!!!!) getting happy about every bone our incompetant democrats throw us is sad.

I am sick of big promises from Hilliary, go look at her voting record and then come back here and cheer about how great she is for "talking tough" to republicans.

She has power to stop these bastards and she doesn't use it, so either she is stupid or with Bushco.

Fuck Hilliary, tell her to push for paper ballots, tell her to spout that every time she gets on TV.

You're just getting played, and we will all pay the price.

[conflictgirl]

30. That was an amazing book.

It really haunted me for quite a while after I read it, because it explained so simply how "ordinary" Germans could've allowed the Nazi party to take over and carry out their atrocities. There was nothing inherently different about them than there is about Americans - no reason for us to believe it couldn't happen here. On the contrary, that book showed exactly how it COULD happen here.

When people see great injustice going on, if it would put them in literal danger to speak out against it, it compels a lot of people to just keep quiet. Even if they're not at risk of physical bodily harm, if someone could lose their career (and entire livelihood) that's compelling enough to get people to toe the line to keep their jobs. A lot of us at DU may be committed enough that we wouldn't let that stop us, but a lot of people don't have that much courage.

[understandinglife]

33. "On the contrary, that book showed exactly how it COULD happen here."

You are correct. And, it is daunting to consider the sacrifices we may all have to make to stop it from happening. As with "Haffner," it will be each individual who will need to decide if and how they will resist; if and how, they will prevent Bush and the neoconsters from wrecking civilization.

Thank you for your comments.

Peace.


It has happened, Mr Lucas


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[FreepFryer]

11. I used to think your posts were on-point, but this point is total B.S.

I wondered how long it would take to brazenly Clinton-bash what was, in essence, a truthful and moving speech.

Your critique is almost completely erroneous, and serves little purpose other than to 'eat our own'.

Next time, attack her when she does something wrong... not when she speaks out on our behalf.

[FreepFryer]

13. And before you tell me to read, read 'The Hitler Myth' about the crafting

of political P.R. attacks on other candidates by the Nazis, often under disguise, and spinning fact into propaganda by vitriol alone.

[understandinglife]

19. I don't have to rely on others to craft political attacks...

... on anyone.

My statements are not a political attack on Senator Clinton, as I'm neither a politician or interested in doing anything other than mentioning the obvious.

She is the one who had the following to say about Bush and his buddies:

"It's very hard to stop people who have no shame about what they're doing.

It is very hard to tell people that they are making decisions that will undermine our checks and balances and constitutional system of government who don't care.

It is very hard to stop people who have never been acquainted with the truth."

And, my response is, stop WHINING about the obvious. Stop the rhetoric.

DO something about it, starting with refusing to in any way cooperate with the vermin that have systematically been dismantling America and trashing its Constitution since Dec 9 2000.

Call a halt. Sacrifice all aspirations. Put your butt on the line. Act like those who had the courage to defy the British and draft and sign the Declaration of Independence. This is not just another season in the ambling, rambling history of "America."

Bush and the neoconsters intend to dominate, not just "America" but the world.

Business-as-usual will fail.

I, like Haffner, am but one small voice observing events that portend horror on a vast scale. Just read "SEC. 9528. ARMED FORCES RECRUITER ACCESS TO STUDENTS AND STUDENT RECRUITING INFORMATION" of the "No Child Left Behind" Act. You betcha they mean 'no child left behind,' and recent events indicate that they will stop at nothing:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3797148&mesg_id=3797148&page=

Peace.


]b]www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[FreepFryer]

27. You're welcome to your opinions, and if you need the last word, fine...

...but when you look at the playing pieces, the lay of the game, and the state of the nation, Hillary Clinton is not the best target for your political passion.

The GOP is.

[understandinglife]

31. My "passion" is not political. Having the 'last word' is hardly the ...

.... the issue in a Discussion Forum.

Who the 'best target' is regarding the systematic destruction of "America" is something I'm capable of analyzing and adjusting as situation warrants.

"The GOP is" not the best target; in fact to aim at "The GOP" is to miss the real target(s) -- Bush, the neoconsters, and their witting multi-national corporate sponsors.

As to Senator Clinton, my comments, like those of Ms Huffington and others are very much directed at her potential and her lack of doing something with it. For instance:

Judy Woodruff asked a very specific question: “Record numbers of Americans continue to die in Iraq. No end to the violence in sight that most people can see. When should the United States begin significant troop withdrawals?”

Hillary reacted like a vampire being shown a cross or an ABC executive seeing the ratings for their Trump TV movie… then offered up the following head scratcher:

"You know, I am not one who feels comfortable setting exit strategies. We don't know what we're exiting from. We don't know what the situation is moving toward…. How do we know where we're headed, when we don't know where we are?"

Wow. Very existential. Very Zen koan. If a foreign policy disintegrates in the desert and no one hears it fail, what does this mean for our country and for our safety? Do you hear that? It’s the sound of one Greek gagging. Senator Clinton, if you are not “comfortable setting exit strategies”, can you direct us to someone who is? Because our soldiers are dying every day waiting for someone who is comfortable setting an exit strategy.

I’ve just decided that I do have a litmus test for the 2008 Democratic nominee: someone who can utter, in plain English, an unambiguous, unequivocal sentence about Iraq.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/arianna-huffington/hillarys-exit-strategy-_1703.html

Yeap. I think that is a very fine 'litmus test.' Congressman Conyers seems to have zero difficulty being specific. I just wish Senator Clinton, with all her name recognition and capital, could be equally specific and, more importantly, act accordinglly.

Happy to continue the discourse, so please do not consider this an attempt to 'have the last word.'

Oh, and as to 'absolutes'; I'm not stating 'absolutes,' nope - don't begin to have that kind of insight.

I'm just stating the obvious and the 'pit' we are in is of our own making because we continued being spectators after Dec 9 2000, instead of rising with the courageous members of the Congressional Black Caucus and halting the stealing of the Presidency in Jan 2001.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[FreepFryer]

36. Ah - but a poster who ends all the threads in his post is less effective..

...because it betrays a certain need to 'control the dialogue' rather than allow other valid points to stand without epilogue...

[understandinglife]

14. Sorry you take it that way. As I noted, Senator Clinton actually is ...

... in a position to do something other than explicate the obvious.

She is in a position to do; that's a remarkable position if she acts on it beyond politics. I'm hopeful she will; especially if folk encourage her to move beyond what might happen in 2006 and 2008 and make it impossible for Bush to kill any more Americans or Iraqi citizens in June and July, 2005.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[FreepFryer]

17. 'Move beyond politics' and 'drive to impeach' are utterly contradictory.

The ONLY way we'll EVER see BushCo forced from power is if the political reality favors it. Going off and angrily playing with our own marbles will do nothing. Only peaceful, politically-savvy resistance will win the day.

And the only way to do that is to play OUR game, OUR way, and play it better, harder and stronger than the GOP folks.

We can, and we will. And Senator Clinton is one of the ones with courage, conviction, intelligence and the track record to make it happen.

[understandinglife]

22. Quite the inverse. They are mutually necessary. Justice is not political..

.... as a judge in Chelan County Superior Court, Washington, more than amply demonstrated today.

And, before you issue another personal attack, please note that I wrote Senator Clinton on more than one occassion in late 2003 and early 2004 urging her to declare candidacy for President. I respected her commitment to the citizens of New York in not doing so. I am not anti-Hilary.

The time is no longer one of 'wait to the next election.' Wish it were otherwise, but Dec 9 2000 changed the rules in "America" and restoring the rules is going to take way more than 'politics.'

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[FreepFryer]

26. I did not think I made a personal attack- if you took it as one, i'm sorry

Your opinions are your own - I just disagree heartily with your thesis and your premise.

It's always too late, when you're at the absolute pit.

We need to mobilize and unify, not attack and vilify.

[understandinglife]

32. See # 31. And, looking forward to continuing the discussion.

Peace.


http://www.intelligencesquad.com/id118.html


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[FreepFryer]

38. See #36. n/t

[Ladyhawk]

15. I seem to recall she hasn't been exactly voting our way lately.

What has her voting record been on some of the important issues? Can someone post a list? I think she's all bluster.

[FreepFryer]

18. Look here and decide based on the facts, not the spin you soak up.

http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

[lonestarnot]

21. FreepFryer am interested in your post and have bookmarked this thread

for monitoring as I can't make up my mind about a choice between Hillary and John Kerry should he decide to run again. Hope you don't mind if I follow you for a while.

[FreepFryer]

25. Funny that you bring up Kerry.

Did you see Olbermann's show about the GOP spin of Kerry's statement about how when he was in D.C. next week he would initiate investigation into the Downing Street memo? (link below)

They spun it into the following absolute baloney:

"Failed presidential candidate Kerry advised that he will begin the presentation of his case for President Bush's impeachment to Congress on Monday."

Look at this strategically for a second. They're accusing Kerry of this (completely erroneously) to achieve 2 goals:

1. to continue to vilify his character
2. to desensitize the base and sensationalize the opposition with regards to impeachment actions and claims

They can't attack Conyers openly, so they push Kerry for Conyers' attack. Don't hate (or hate on) Kerry, or Hillary, or Conyers, because their public acts and decisions don't always square with your own.

That's a GOP frame. Ask yourself and others why, listen to the answer with an open heart, and see if your knowledge grows as a result.

Lesson here:

1. Impeachment or at least subsequent inquiry is a real likelihood, the longer 'the Fuhrer' suffers image tarnish from an unpopular war, rampant classism and an unproductive economy.
2. They won't all talk on those points at once, they are independent senators with their own constituencies and experiences to guide them.
3. The GOP will attack based on what they fear, not necessarily what is or is not true.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1833065&mesg_id=1834374

Believe in your own power to decide!
Believe in Liberal Democracy

[lonestarnot]

29. yes saw it. They remind me of a pack of dogs out of control.

[dad]

34. Why can't they attack Conyers openly?

I don't follow your line of thinking.

[FreepFryer]

37. For Bush to hammer Conyers directly would only give him more visibility.

You take on the ones you can knock out with as little collateral damage as possible.

They've decided an overt attack by BushCo now, rather than an effort to increase the heat of Conyers' hotseat by lighting fuses under other democrats, is the most politically expedient.

It reveals a lot about what they're thinking right now.

[Floogeldy]

28. Shame on all of you Hillary bashers.

Get a clue.

[ariellyn]

40. "All" of them...I count one here, the person starting and keeping this

thread going.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Shame on Hillary for suporting Bush's war and occupation.

Get a clue.

[understandinglife]

35. Something simple and specific to do. Let us all write Senator Clinton...

.... and urge her to stand before her colleagues in the US Senate and have a press conference, thereafter, and call upon all concerned American citizens to sign Congressman Conyers letter to Bush.

If Apian, at dKos, can be busting his/her butt trying to elicit 10,000,000 signatures, why not Senator Clinton (and Reid, and Boxer, and Kerry, and Kennedy, and.....)?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/6/214643/6438

In any event, please help Apian any way you can. If anyone needs an extra bolus of motivation, encourage them to reflect on 'The Children's Crusade' and realize 'The Bush Youth' is already in-formation:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3797148

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[understandinglife]

39. Expanded to other members of Congress

Have begun determining if each Democratic member of Congress has been contacted to request that they issue a press release to their constituency asking each citizen to sign Congressman Conyers letter and for them to speak on the record that they have taken such action.

Will post what I learn either here or in a separate thread.

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us