DSM: A Very Special Special Report With Brit Hume

[paineinthearse]

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=80&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

HUME: When we come back with our panel, the memo that the left says the U.S. media won't talk about it. Well, we'll talk about it, next.

HUME: We're back with our panel.

It is regarded on the anti-war left as proof positive that President Bush intended from the start to go to war in Iraq and rigged American intelligence to support the case. It is called the Downing Street Memo, and it is such a focal point now that it even has its own Web site, www.downingstreetmemo.com.

Mort, what is the Downing Street Memo?

KONDRACKE: Well, the Downing Street Memo was an account of a secret...

HUME: Minutes, right?

KONDRACKE: ... minutes of a meeting of Tony Blair and his top national security team in July 2002. And the head of foreign intelligence had just been to the United States to go around the administration and see what the policy was likely to be. And when he reported, as the memo says - - and this is paraphrasing now, it's not quoting him -- that military action was now seen as inevitable -- that is in Washington -- Bush wanted to remove Saddam...

HUME: In Washington about Iraq?

KONDRACKE: Right. Bush wanted to remove Saddam though military action -- through military action justified by the conjunction of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. And this is the key controversial sentence. "But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Now, does that mean that we are being jimmied, we are being -- that intelligence was being cooked?

HUME: But this guy that said this based this on his conclusion on discussing this with national security aides surrounding President Bush, right?

KONDRACKE: Right, right.

HUME: Not policymakers?

KONDRACKE: Right, and the adversaries of the policy are fastening on this sentence to say, "Aha!"

HUME: The smoking gun.

Ceci, is it a smoking gun?

CONNOLLY: Hard to say that it's a smoking gun. It certainly raises legitimate questions about timing, and motives, and again, going back to the discussion of how good our and everyone else's intelligence was about Iraq.

There was a group that tried to make this a campaign issue against Tony Blair. And it potentially contributed some to his damage and loss of some support, but he did in the end win reelection. So I think that's another reason why this is not getting ongoing attention and scrutiny.

HUME: Well, is it -- does it really say, in effect, that the intelligence -- I mean, does it establish with any authority that U.S. intelligence was manipulated for the purpose of supporting this case?

CONNOLLY: No. I mean, I think the most factual statement in there is that the intelligence was thin. And that's something that we have all come to realize over the past two-year period now.

KONDRACKE: Well, that was the observation -- I'm sorry.

BARNES: That's true, that's...

(CROSSTALK)

BARNES: What I want to know is -- wait a minute.

HUME: Yes, but what about the burden -- what does he mean by intelligence was fixed around the policy?

(CROSSTALK)

BARNES: He clearly meant it was fixed, it was manipulated. But if it were manipulated, if the U.S. manipulated it, how did they also manipulate French intelligence, and German intelligence, and British intelligence, and fool the Senate and House Intelligence Committees, and that -- what was it -- Silberman-Robb Commission that looked into the whole thing. They fooled everybody, and manipulated the intelligence all over the world.

Obviously, you could read that "fixed" thing that way, but that's obviously not what it means.

HUME: Well, it may have been what it meant, but, well, the question is...

BARNES: Well, it's just incorrect.

HUME: ... whether it's true, right.

BARNES: No.

KONDRACKE: That observation that the intelligence was thin was the observation of Jack Straw who was against the policy and resigned as foreign secretary...

HUME: Jack Straw?

BARNES: Robin Cook.

KONDRACKE: Robin Cook. Robin Cook. I'm sorry.

HUME: Not Jack Straw. Jack Straw is the guy that came in, in his place.

KONDRACKE: You're right, you're right. Robin Cook was the foreign secretary at the time.

HUME: That's why we don't need a picture of Jack Straw. Good.

(LAUGHTER)

KONDRACKE: Sorry, you're right.

CONNOLLY: But it's hard to disagree at this point in hindsight that the intelligence was not very good. We don't know why.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNES: Well, we all know that.

HUME: But the key question here -- look, this is a memo that is being cited in support of the proposition that the policy had been decided ahead of time. And the policy was war, military action to depose Saddam Hussein. Now, deposing Saddam Hussein, I think it's fair to say, had been the policy of the U.S. government since 1998, when actually there was a measure passed by Congress that's called -- what was it called, the Iraqi Freedom Law or something like that?

BARNES: For regime change.

HUME: Right, a call for regime change in Iraq, which meant getting rid of Saddam Hussein. So that was clearly the policy. But this said that the policy was to do it by military means and that intelligence was manipulated, so the point -- is this not, in fact, evidence that that was the case, at least?

KONDRACKE: Well, I think it's evidence that the United States was going to put military pressure on Saddam Hussein and, in the end of the game, would probably have to go to war.

HUME: Ceci suggested that one reason why this didn't get much coverage in the U.S. media, in part because everybody knew the intelligence was bad. Tony Blair fought this, got reelected. Any other reason, quickly?

KONDRACKE: I don't think that the American press is trying to protect George Bush, because that's the...

(CROSSTALK)

BARNES: We've been through all this. We've examined all the intelligence, or lack of good intelligence. You know, this is -- we know the answer here. It's not that the intelligence was manipulated, it's that it was flawed.

HUME: That's it for the panel, but stay tuned to see a Hollywood casting call for a movie about Washington. Wait until you see who is playing whom, next.

[trotsky]

1. I am now stupider for having read that exchange. n/t

[deutsey]

2. That's the goal...

[burythehatchet]

36. mission accomplished here

:crazy:

[Wilber_Stool]

3. I stopped reading when

they said that Blair had been re-elected. As we all know, Prime Ministers are appointed, not elected. Get some body with some brains and I'll read the whole thing.

[Coexist]

4. why is no one ever prepared to rebut

the argument that all the foreign intelligence said that Saddam had WMD? That the German's considered "Curveball" a problem and not a good source, etc. This is so frustrating. When we get our voice heard, we need to hammer the points home.

(on edit - so frustrated I couldn't use spell check!)

[Sugarcoated]

10. FLDem5 -

The sources they (US and other countries) used was from questionable sources? What is Curveball?

[Coexist]

12. "Curveball" was the code name for the main source of a lot of the

flawed intelligence we received. Many experts have argued that "Curveball" was Allawi.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7369843/site/newsweek/
<snip>
"The CIA had evidence that Curveball was a shameless fabricator months before Secretary of State Colin Powell cited the Iraqi's reports before the United Nations. But in the Feb. 4, 2003, e-mail—written a day before Powell's U.N. appearance—the senior CIA official sharply rebuked one of those skeptical analysts. "Keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curve Ball said or didn't say and that the Powers That Be probably aren't terribly interested in whether Curve Ball knows what he's talking about," the CIA official wrote."


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/4/2/10228/95578
<snip>
"So the entire WMD claim was based on intelligence from one person, even after repeated warnings from German intelligence officials:


The Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency, which handled Iraqi refugees in Germany, furnished the engineer with the Curveball code-name. He soon began providing technical drawings and detailed information indicating that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein secretly had built lethal germ factories on trains and trucks.
But the DIA never sought to check his background or information. Instead, the commission found, the DIA saw itself as a conduit for German intelligence, and funneled nearly 100 Curveball reports to the CIA between January 2000 and September 2001.

Except for a brief meeting between Curveball and a DIA medical technician in May 2000, German authorities refused to let U.S. intelligence officials interview their source until March 2004, a year after the war began."

[Raksha]

54. I always assumed "Curveball" was Chalabi.

[Coexist]

55. Oops that's what I meant.

[Al-CIAda]

13. Yes, time after time...our leaders FAIL to make the points

that would put the ball back in the oppositions court and instead we get seemingly clueless conciliatory half-assed faux opposition.

[Coexist]

15. couldn't you just scream in frustration sometimes.

I wish I were famous, so's I could get on the teevee!

[fob]

35. How about the simple point that if the case was so solid then why did

they feel the need to fix it to fit the policy? Even if their (incorrect) assumption now is that the intelligence was flawed, AT THAT TIME they should NOT have KNOWN that and should have been more than happy to present the case on that intelligence. That may have caused problems though because it would have given the world community a chance to say, "That's it?".

So with that in mind I say their assertion that the intelligence was flawed is pure bullshit. The only explanation that fits is manipulation. Actually it would help their case if they PURPOSEFULLY IGNORED the real intelligence and just stovepiped thier own, that way there is no trail for others to refute AND they can just wipe their operation clean and then overlay their "conclusions" on the real intelligence and VOILA!, the "intelligence is flawed".

[Coexist]

38. another great point - we should be able to crush any argument they have

with the truth. So why aren't we. We come across as whiney you-don't-report-the-nonsense-we-want-you-to type people when we don't hammer them when we get the opportunity to show that IT IS news. But at least its still out there.

When does Kerry go on today?

[caledesi]

46. You nailed it FLDem...that is also my biggest frustration

I heard some whackjob neocon even saying the UN agreed that SH had WMD! I can't stand it. Germany and France? Hello? Why weren't they our "coalition of the willing?"

:grr:

[kid a]

5. bad intel . . . nothing new

move along now, sheeple

[bpilgrim]

6. "They fooled everybody' - ah, the ole RW CANARD "everybody THOUGHT SO'

thats all they got at this point... i say it's time we TIPPED them over :evilgrin:

peace

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. The intelligence wasn't "fixed" it was "flawed"

BARNES: We've been through all this. We've examined all the intelligence, or lack of good intelligence. You know, this is -- we know the answer here. It's not that the intelligence was manipulated, it's that it was flawed.

Calling the CIA to take these people DOWN!

[Coexist]

11. Okay - People booked for TV appearances - LISTEN UP!

1. Not all countries agreed with our intelligence - please bring a list of talking points with you. They will hit you with this.

2. In re: flawed intelligence - please bring your notes on this also. This will also spill over into the "this is not new information" area.

Anything else that you see at the common RW spin?

[me b zola]

25. My point doesn't go the the meat of the minutes,

My point is how they describe those who support the call for an investigation.


Hume lead off by saying that the 'anti-war left' is using this memo to question the legitimacy of the war.

I would say that many families who have had loved ones die or injured in Iraq demand answers, regardless of their political affiliations. Several Vetrans groups have joined afterdowningstreet.com, and I'm sure not all of those groups are partisan in nature.



Anyway, that is part of the spin that I feel as though we should be addressing. THEY DON'T OWN OUR MILITARY

[seemslikeadream]

8. Obviously, you could read that "fixed" thing that way

Yea ya could

[whistle]

9. This pretty much sums up the MSM stand on the issue of intelligence

<snip>
BARNES: We've been through all this. We've examined all the intelligence, or lack of good intelligence. You know, this is -- we know the answer here. It's not that the intelligence was manipulated, it's that it was flawed.

HUME: That's it for the panel, but stay tuned to see a Hollywood casting call for a movie about Washington. Wait until you see who is playing whom, next.
<end of snip>

Intelligence was "flawed" and the poor BushCo people were all misled. Poppycock!

"But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

The policy was, "Take down Saddam, get Iraq, establish a permanent presence in the middle east, control the oil for the interests of the U.S." Since intelligence was not making a strong case for BushCo to invade Iraq, the intelligence was "fixed" or corrected or made-up with false intelligence data that fit the Bush policy and those actions by Bush officials are what are being covered up.

[Al-CIAda]

16. The 'policy' was the PNAC cabal! n/t

[Coexist]

17. Yes, it was

they could bring up the letter to Clinton as proof that RW plans for Iraq began WAY before 9/11

[Jack Rabbit]

49. That's Fox mouthing the regime's line

The MSM also takes this tact.

They are blaming the intelligence community and refusing to discuss the possibility that it could have been anything else (we know the answer here).

I suspect that Mr. Barnes really knows the answer and that it is the exact opposite of what he is saying: It's not that the intelligence was flawed, it's that it was manipulated.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. Let's try to cut through some of the steer manure

One could easily argue that the Downing Street document is a smoking gun as far as Blair is concerned, but not Bush. It shows that Blair was very much aware that the case for war was thin and facts to support the case for war were being dissembled and fabricated by the Bush regime. Nevertheless, he was willing to go along with Bush. Indeed, Blair proceeded to assist in the dissembling and fabrication of facts.

As far as Bush is concerned, a smoking gun would be a document from the White House or the Pentagon that also says the case for war is thin and that there is a need to "fix" the facts and intelligence around the policy because, as things stood in the Summer of 2002, the facts and intelligence simply didn't support a convincing case for invading Iraq.

The Downing Street document tells us that there is a smoking gun implicating the Bush regime. This document lays atop of the last thin layer of earth underneath which the smoking gun lays buried, but it is not itself the smoking gun.

[whistle]

18. Yes, but if the DSM brings down Blair, will Blair squeal like a stuck

...pig and expose Bush? Blair knows enough to hang BushCo. He is probably reminding Bush of that fact at this very moment.

[Jack Rabbit]

29. Quite possibly, yes

Mr. Blair should be impeached by the House of Commons. Impeachment in Britain is a little different than it is here; one convicted on impeachment charages in Britain is subject to fines and imprisonment. It is more like a criminal proceeding. Consequently, they will take a closer look at the evidence. Sir Richard Dearlove, the head of MI6 and the gentleman identified in the document as "C", will no doubt be called as a witness. He will be questioned further as to what made him characterize the mood in Washington as he did.

[whistle]

31. Then we need to back the Brits to take such action and show that

...we would support total exposure of any BushCo people in the conspiracy, including this false pretender to the office of president.

[Jack Rabbit]

39. See also post 37

I think it is taken for granted the "we" (i.e., American anti-war dissidents) will support anything that will stop and bring down the Bush regime.

[bpilgrim]

22. it's a SMOKING GUN and that we stepped up BOMBING to PROVOKE them is

The SMOKING BULLET

all the other evidence combined makes it a TRIFECTA :bounce:

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[Jack Rabbit]

37. Properly speaking, no, it isn't

Remember, the "smoking gun" in Watergate was a tape of Nixon and Haldeman discussing the cover up days after the burglary. If there was any doubt about Nixon's guilt up to then, that dispelled it. Within hours of the release of that tape, every member on the House Judiciary Committee who had supported Nixon until then announced that they would vote to recommend the first article of impeachment, which concerned obstruction of justice.

We don't have anything quite like that in this case.

However, bear in mind also that the "smoking gun" was released after the Judiciary Committee voted to recommend three articles of impeachment. The articles had bi-partisan support. Supporters of impeachment were able to build their case without it.

Here, too, the case against the Bush regime for war crimes in Iraq can be made without a smoking gun as I have described it. It would take very little more work to make it now. As far as a crimes against humanity charges arising out of the use of torture and humiliation in Bush's offshore gulags is concerned, the Gonzales memos are already out there and they are a set of smoking guns.

So, as far as I am concerned, if Congress is unwilling to impeach Bush, Cheney and three of the four top cabinet officers for war crimes and crimes against humanity, or if federal courts and prosecutors are unwilling to take up the case, then the time has come to call for the convening of an international tribunal.

[bpilgrim]

40. what KICKED off the INVESTIGATION? that led to the tapes?

deep throat articles... and we got MUCH MORE than that :evilgrin:

i'll give you that we don't have a 'smoking-gun' with tapes or minutes of bush meetings, yet, but we got the smok'n gun to hold against the medias head to turn 2 (get busy) ;->

if we don't have REAL INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIONS and CHARGES, the ICC automatically gets jurisdiction - it's in it's charter :evilgrin:

:hi:

peace

[Jack Rabbit]

43. True.

But Mr. Felt's say so was not a smoking gun.

And if we don't have the MSM, we at least have alternative sources that actually cover news.

I am convinced that a number of Bush regime officials, including the frat boy himself, are guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity and that it can be proved in one court of law or another.

I also believe that these are extraordinary and serious offenses, not mere acts incidental to being in charge of the world's largest military machine that could be brought against any recent American President. I am convinced that there was no case for war against Iraq and that every high-level member of the regime knew that there was no case for war. This was an unjustified war of aggression. predicated on willful lies, whose purpose was colonial piracy. Those who planned and provoked this war deserve to be brought to justice.

[HereSince1628]

19. To KEEP the intelligence flawed Bolton tried to stop UN Inspectors

The truth that the US via Bush manipulated international politics and did it by obstruction and lying is as plain as the nose on Bush's face.

Remember, we usually collect incriminating evidence _after_ the crime. After its reported and after it is being investigated.

This GOP bullshit line that it is all "old news" is akin to saying we don't want an investigation into a killing because the murder is old news and everyone's heard about it.

The news is that the DSM is a piece of evidence that corroborates the planning of the crime. This is better than the government's line thatAl Qaeda met with Iraqi's. And the AQ-Iraq story was deemed evidence enough to expand the "war on terror" to Iraq.

[LunaC]

48. Then Bolton went after IAEA's ElBaradei for speaking Truth

"What were ElBaradei’s sins? His opposition to the war in Iraq and his supposedly “soft” position on Iran’s
nuclear program. ElBaradei led weapons inspectors into Iraq in November 2002. By January 2003, as the full
court press for war in Iraq was reaching an apex, ElBaradei reported that his team could not find any evidence
to support the U.S. claim that Iraq had reconstituted its nuclear weapons program. And his March 2003
findings, sent to the U.N. Security Council, refuted all of the purported evidence of an active Iraqi nuclear
program, including the infamous aluminum tubes, uranium from Niger, and reactivated nuclear production
plants."

http://foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=2854&print=1

[kid a]

20. bushee likee his TV

[GiovanniC]

21. Followed By a Very Very Special Hannity Special Report

HANNITY: And welcome back. We're here with a very special Fair and Balanced™ panel to talk about the much ado about nothing over the so-called Downing Street Memo. On the right, we have bestselling author extraordinaire, Ann Coulter, and the radio talk show host who is second in greatness only to me, Rush Limbaugh.

COLMES: And on the left we have Zell Miller and Tammy Bruce. Let's start.

HANNITY: Okay, what is your take on the Downing Street Memo? Ann?

COULTER: The Downing Street Memo is a bunch of liberal lies. Liberals kill babies. We should club them with baseball bats.

HANNITY: Very insightful. Rush?

LIMBAUGH: I'm telling you, folks, this is just another attempt at the left-wing nutjobs to persecute honest Republicans in an effort to overthrow the government so they can have gay sodomy in the streets with terrorists while raising taxes.

HANNITY: I was just thinking the same thing. Zell?

MILLER: Look Sean, I hardly recognize my party anymore. I used to be proud to call myself a Democrat, but now here they are going after an honest wartime president just because some evidence shows that he was dishonest about war. I don't think it's proper to criticize the president and I am ashamed at my colleagues for doing so.

HANNITY: Whoa, back off the far-left extremism, or we'll have to cut your mike. Tammy, you'll have the last word.

BRUCE: Hey, I'm as liberal as they come. I'm a lifelong Democrat. When you look up "liberal Democrat" in the dictionary, you'll see my picture. I am the most Democratic Democrat alive. I am the most liberal of all the liberals. Even though I voted for Bush and hate everything the Democratic Party stands for. And I just have to say that nobody cares about this stupid Danny Streak Memo or whatever it is.

HANNITY: Typical left-wing rhetoric, so far out of the mainstream. Alan, do you have anything to add? I give you permission to speak now.

COLMES: I agree with everything everybody has said tonight. We'll be back after this commercial break.

[Coexist]

24. LOL!

oh, the sadness that what you typed may be the actual transcript and may be a parody.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemonFighterLives]

33. Too bad Bob Boudelang wasn't there

:rofl:

[underpants]

42. Hilarious

Well done

[paineinthearse]

52. rofl

:rofl:

You're bad!

[kentuck]

23. Were the lies "unintentional" or intentional ?

That is the case for whether or not is was planned deception of the American people.

[DemonFighterLives]

26. Funny how these clowns can skirt the issue and close it

Flawed my a*s! Cheney went to CIA headquarters with a little arm twisting and the "fixed" information was stovepiped up. Rummy created the Office of Special Plans just for this purpose.

I don't believe the CIA was that bad, but they did what the crooked adminsitration wanted. I can't see them taking all the blame. Of course the cronies have run out any naysayers.

[bpilgrim]

28. OSP - office of special plans - the FIXERs'

just like the PLUMBERS of old :evilgrin:

peace

[DemonFighterLives]

34. And Humes passes it all back to Clinton

It wasn't Clinton as much as it was the Unthink tank PNAC.
How to destroy the US and a good share of the world.

[bpilgrim]

41. "the Unthink tank" - lol

how are we gonna get out of this mess :shrug:

peace

[Crankie Avalon]

30. Makes me think of...

"A Very Special Episode of Blossom," only Hume's "very special episode" isn't as intelligent viewing.

[Coexist]

32. btw - paininthearse - thanks for the transcript

that was a lot of work.

[paineinthearse]

60. YQW. Actually it was a happy accident. nt

[LunaC]

44. 1998 produced two opposing policies

Clinton wanted to support the Iraqi opposition to remove Saddam..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3791665&mesg_id=3791665

PNAC wanted to use the U.S. military to remove Saddam.
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/PNAC_101

The Bush*/PNAC WH proceeded with their strategy even if it meant intentionally manipulating the intel and public sentiment to get their way.

Why is this so hard for the Talking Heads to understand?

[Coexist]

45. You tell me - because I wish I knew

[paineinthearse]

53. .

[JHB]

47. "Raises" legitimate questions?!? It **confirms** them!

That's why it's called "a smoking gun"!

HUME: The smoking gun.
Ceci, is it a smoking gun?

CONNOLLY: Hard to say that it's a smoking gun. It certainly raises legitimate questions about timing, and motives, and again, going back to the discussion of how good our and everyone else's intelligence was about Iraq.

It might "raise" questions if this were the first time we'd heard about this, but it's not. There have been plenty of sources -- ranging from an unused ghost writer for Bush's "auto"biography to ex-Cabinet and NSA officials -- that the Bush administration was determined to go to war in Iraq even before it took office, and long before 9/11 and the pretexts used to cajole support for making Iraq a higher priority than Bin Laden.

The DSM confirms through yet another top-level source that the Administration was determined to go to war, and that its rhetoric prior to the "official" commencement of hostilities was simply a fog to cajole enough support to let them do what they wanted.

[DistressedAmerican]

50. Study Up Pupils!!! The Test Will Be Every Day Until These Criminals GO!!!

[Generator]

51. Ah HA-the intelligence wasn't manipulated it was flawed!

That's why Tenet got a medal. That's why those that opposed the flawed intelligence were forced to resign.

That's why in Bush's America-failure is always rewarded. Anyoo-it's not Bush's fault-it's that damn CIA that told Bush what he wanted to hear. Because the emperor always gets to hear what he wants-and he doesn't need no stinking truth.

And who pays? Not Bush. Not the flawed intelligence guys. Just those poor suckers who signed up for military duty. Damn, it's so easy to play with lives when it's not yours.

[paineinthearse]

56. Faux you!

:kick:

[LightningFlash]

57. Ahh Brian Hume you fool.....

Goldwater wasn't the only one there. The minutes from the meeting revealed everything they were plotting to do, and was linked directly to PNAC. This is your fault for believing in lies, Hume.

The Minutes are a smoking gun nobody wants to hear about......Because it makes the guilty, guilty.

[DearAbby]

58. Was this an intelligent exchange about the contents of the DSM?

Good then we dont need a picture....

:crazy:

[HR_Pufnstuf]

59. Hey Fred Barnes...

...please show me some French or German intelligence stating that Saddam had WMD and was an imminent threat to the United States.


Pretty please??