The end is near for GM.

[KlatooBNikto]

GM, which announced that 25,000 jobs will be cut before 2008,has even more serious problems ahead.Its product pipeline is dry with no exciting products that can seize people's imagination.As is that is not bad enough its rebate costs, the evisceration of its high profit products ( trucks and SUVs) and its high overhead and legacy costs are making it impossible to operate profitably.It needs a mega blockbuster product and GM is congenitally incapable of coming up with such a product.That would require imagination, audacity and rsik taking on a scale that is beyond the capacity of the stodgy accountants that run GM.

I give GM at the most five years.

[B Calm]

1. I hope you are wrong

[cthrumatrix]

7. I fear he is right....... BUT there will be a govt bailout

[CoffeeAnnan]

35. Is that why Bush wants to get his hands on Social Security?he has

practically emptied the Treasury with his tax cuts and war, and needs the money for the bailout not just of GM but quite possibly that of Ford as well.

[trotsky]

2. If I were in charge,

I'd direct at least 90% of the R&D towards an ultra-efficient family vehicle. Could be hybrid, electric, or some other technology. It's do or die, GM. "Do" something completely different, or "die" doing what has gotten you to this point.

[ComerPerro]

4. I think you are exactly right

It would really open up a new customer base. Right now American companies don't seem to be interested in producing fuel-efficient cars.

And finding an efficient family-sized vehicle could really help them out

[KlatooBNikto]

16. It is death by one big blow or by a thousand cuts.Take your pick.

[ClintonTyree]

3. A nice hybrid vehicle would be nice....

every auto company in America threw all of their eggs into the SUV basket years ago (with the exception of the Ford Escape hybrid) and are going to pay the price for that mistake. Libs have been telling them for DECADES to come up with a more fuel efficient vehicle, but they ignored us and stayed with the gas guzzlers. They have no one to blame but themselves.
Unfortunately, it will be the hourly wage people that suffer the most because of their foolishness.

[European Socialist]

28. Thank You Sens. Levin and Stabenow...

for your votes against mileage standards a few years back, that may have saved the US auto industry and the State of Michigan.

[trogdor]

5. Employee discounts for EVERYONE!

I'm looking at some car ads in one of the local throwaway papers:

Chevy Malibu:
Sticker: 20,480
Employee price: 16,261

Chevy Silverado pickup:
Sticker: 20,570
Employee price: 15,115

Chevy Aveo 4DR:
Sticker: 9,995
Employee price: 8,766

Chevy Cobalt coupe:
Sticker: 14,270
Employee price: 12,540

Chevy Monte Carlo LS:
Sticker: 25,595
Employee price: 19,802

Chevy Colorado pickup 4WD extended cab:
Sticker: 24,855
Employee price: 19,829

Chevy Impala LS:
Sticker: 26,560
Employee price: 21,139

Chevy Equinox AWD:
Sticker: 24,625
Employee price: 21,584

Chevy Surburban (the BIG honkin' SUV):
Sticker: 41,975
Employee price: 32,671

Another dealer has similar:

Chevy Silverado Z-71 extended cab:
Sticker: 34,225
Employee price: 29,100
After $3000 rebate: 26,100

Man, they're practically giving away Chevys nowadays. Are they worth the money?

[Coastie for Truth]

6. GM has been congenitally unable to innovate for years

Last big technology innovations- automatic transmission (65 years ago), power steering (over 50 years ago). (Power brakes were Packard, a/c was AMC)

Last blockbuster cars - Corvette (50 years ago), Toronado/Eldorado (40 years ago)

Major screwups- Olds diesel, Corvair, Chevette, cookie cutter "A" cars, cookie cutter "J" cars (remember the Cadillac Cimarron?).

Major recent accomplishments (????????????)--

Pontiac Aztek<>

Buick Rendezvous <>

Bob Lutz's "Your father's Buick designed by Harley Earle" won't save them.

[KlatooBNikto]

17. Almost all the major innovations in automobile technology has come from

abroad in the past thrity years: Fuel Injection, Multi valve engines, Disc Brakes, Radial Tires, Variable valve timing,electronically controlled transmissions and the list goes on.GM has not been the first in any of these major developments even though it invests quite heavily in R&D at the Warren Tech Center.

With the introduction of the hybrids and the number of miles the Japanese are accumulating, it is very likely that you are going to see a "drive-by-wire" car soon. That would enhance fuel efficiency even more and I wouldn't be surprised, with the addition of lighweight composite bodies,a 60 MPG vehicle will emerge soon.GM , as usual, will not be in the picture.It is going to be a sad end to an American icon.Like the death spiral that caught US Steel.

[Coastie for Truth]

20. The engineers are doing the work - senior management isn't implementing

the "drive by wire" cars with digital control of vehicle dynamics (pitch, roll, yaw, traction and braking on bad and slippery roads) and digital integration of the engine, transmission, and vehicle dynamics through the automotive data bus -- all done at Sci Center and Warren and Rochester Hills back in the 1980's --- and never implemented in a product until the market was captured by imports.

The kids (engineering students) at Lawrence and State and UofM and Wayne and UofD and Oakland used to drive those cars when they were brought on campus for "show and tell." But - they never saw daylight in a revenue market car.

As they say in Hamtramack - A fish starts to small at the head.

[KlatooBNikto]

26. The day we allowed the finance and accounting guys to take charge

of our corporations was the day the rot set in. These guys are never comfortable with products and are only interested in the bottom line.They straight jacket the engineers and the product guys and constantly bitch about the money that is being spent on R&D.They are the death of our corporations. They have gotta go before the comapnies get healthy.

[RPM]

25. US Steel

I have long said that GM is US Steel minus 20 years.... That puts GM where USS was in 1985 (closing Homestead, South, Duquesne, Youngstown and a bumch of other marquee facilities)

Shocker those dumb fucks in Detroit couldnt learn from the dumb fucks at USS :sarcasm:

(i still hold a soft spot for USS as a former college employee there...)

[KlatooBNikto]

27. I used to sell products for removing sulfur out of steels to US Steel

and used to call on their R&D guys at their Research Center in Monroeville,PA long time ago. The research people were very enthused about removing sulfur because that would get them products that would get them into the Alaskan pipeline project,a huge market that US Steel lost to the Japanese because US Steel's management was not willing to spend the money to improve their products.

And another American icon bit the dust,like you say twenty years before GM is repeating the same mistake.

[mrdmk]

8. We own (the wifey and I) a Toyota Prius

The Toyota Prius was not designed to be a fuel efficient car, although that is one of the side benefits. We are averaging approx. 40 mpg according to the on board computer. My 1973 Fiat coupe got over 40 mpg after a tune up and fixing the smog (removal of) equipment. The Prius is a environmental friendly car with nearly zero emissions. The car has three catalytic converters on it. Toyota started designing this car nearly thirty years ago and has been in use in Japan for over fifth-teen years now (Japan has a terrible smog problem). As a matter of fact, Toyota has six models of hybrids for sale in Japan at this time. The reason the Toyota Prius came out in 2001 is because of Toyota insistence. The Department of Transportation (DOT) did not allow these cars in the United States because the DOT feared (or said) that the nickel-lithium batteries (250v) had the potential to blow-up. Toyota had to prove over and over again that these cars are safe on our roads to the DOT not to mention that they worked as Toyota claimed they did.

As a side note, Honda, GM and Ford Hybrids are what they call mild Hybrids and not full Hybrids like the Prius.

You can find this information in Consumer Reports. Sorry no link.

[indepat]

9. Heard a high-level GM executive remind his charges in the last 1960s that

GM was not in the business of making cars and trucks, but making money and another exec admonish his charges to get the product out on the streets and we'll fix 'em later. Sadly with such mindsets, GM has not thereafter made much money for its shareholders and the jobs of many of its rank and file have been/will be lost: hopefully pensions won't be a later casualty.

[Gold Metal Flake]

10. Time for a NEW CAMARO!!

Yeah, that's the ticket!

EDIT: Not just any Camaro, a BITCHIN' Camaro!!

[lectrobyte]

29. Yeah, Bitchin' Camaro is one of my favorite DM cuts... but I'd love

to see GM make a comeback. If Ford can do a retro Mustang and have them flying out of the showroom, I'd love to see GM do something that looked like a '71 Camaro. Or a real Chevelle, or a Sting Ray. Heck, I even liked the proportions on the 65-68 Corvairs.

[Jack from Charlotte]

11. GM can come back. Chrysler did......

Back in the mid 80's Chrysler's lineup was puke city. Had the reputation Buick does now. Geezer/Blue Hair's car.

Look at Chrysler's lineup now. The Chrysler 300 is very sharp and sales are kicking butt. They took a Dodge Neon and put that PT Cruiser Body on it and starting selling $12,000 cars (Neons) for $22,000 and couldn't make enough to keep up with demand. The Pacifica and Dodge Charger look sharp, too.

Same thing with Nissan about 5 years ago. Dieing with boring cars. Did a re do on the Altima, redo on Maxima and added 350 ZX. Now they're kicking but.

The only car GM makes that isn't Buick-boring is the Vette.

This company, GM, needs to get some decent design people or they'll be out of here, dear.

[TheDebbieDee]

14. Chrysler came back and then blew it again......

by merging, or should I say, being bought by Daimler-Benz!

[CatholicEdHead]

22. Daimler-Benz

is a big reason for the recent refreshed lineup. The new 300, Charger, and Magnum for example are based on an older Mercedes platform.

[NewJeffCT]

21. Ford did the same in the 60s & 70s

And then came back after that. Really good book I read in college by David Halberstam called "The Reckoning" tells the story of the rise, fall & then rise again of Ford, and also the rise of Datsun/Nissan at the same time.

[MN ChimpH8R]

12. I suspect you're right, but

Why they aren't screaming for single payer health care, along with the other auto mfrs, the airlines and other big biz I will never understand. It's simple, take health care expenses off the table and replace it with a tax increase sufficient to cover the expense. Long term liability now gone, at no net loss and possibly a gain.

And as for GM cars, when they make something decent (like my 2001 Aurora 4.0, which could actually compete with the imported sport sedans, they discontinue it. Phooey on all of them.

[KlatooBNikto]

18. In addition to being lousy car makers, their management is made up of

ideological junkies, who have swallowed the kool-aid of the Bush Republicans. That is a self inflicted one two punch that is knocking GM out.

[Vinca]

13. Sooner or later it has to dawn on someone that:

a) our trade policies are not trade policies - we import but not nearly as much as we export; b) our trade agreements are the kiss of death for American business; c) the cost of providing health insurance to workers is finally breaking the back of big business. The solutions? Easy. Start from scratch on import/export agreements - it's fine to be nice, but we're being stupid. Ixnay any pact that sends jobs overseas. Universal health care, universal health care, universal health care.

[Syncronaut Seven]

15. Isn't GM also a military contractor

I believe it falls under the "No military contractor left behind act of 2003"

[lectrobyte]

32. I think so -- they make HMMV's and drivetrains for tanks, amongst

other things I believe.

[BigBearJohn]

19. No way. Mark my words.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. I wonder how the capitalists at GM feel about the "free market" now?

You can bet they'll be leaning on "their" congressmen/senators for a government bailout like Chrysler got if they can't get the unions to sell out.

[sleipnir]

24. Greed is king in Auto...on all levels.

Corporate CEO's and the Unions have all led to the demise of the American Automobile production. It's all greed for money, pure and simple. The contracts the Union people get are outlandish and would never fly in any other industry, except perhaps aircraft construction and look how well that is doing right now. More so to blame are the corporate CEO's who are among the highest paid in the United States.

Greed for money is what brought this giant

[robertarctor]

30. At the core, the car biz is design- and product-driven

Period. End of story.

Look at Nissan. Dead in the water five years ago, and then Renault (one of the world's more innovative automakers, even though they don't sell cars here) took control of Nissan and turned the company around with striking designs. I see new Nissan and Infiniti cars and trucks everywhere. And the few new GM cars I see on the road look rather shabby when compared to Nissan's new products, or Ford's, Chrysler's, Volkswagen's or Toyota's, for that matter.

Where did the General blow it? Basically, it turned its bread-and-butter division, Chevrolet, into a truckmaker, and into that vacuum marched Toyota, which became the new Chevrolet (just like Lexus became the new Cadillac, and Hyundai became the new Toyota).

Of course, with peak oil here or approaching quickly, all these carmakers will soon be as familiar to the average American as Studebaker, Packard, Hudson and Hupmobile.

And whoever posted that GM's management are a bunch of Kool-Aid-drinking Republicans, I hoist my glass. How true.

[burrowowl]

31. You mean that

'what is good for GM is good for the country' no longer holds?
Of course it never did.

[CoffeeAnnan]

33. GM continues to operate as though consumers have no choice but

to buy its cars.This is like a rich man, having lost his wealth, still operates as though the world must kiss his feet and he is the one who doles out favors.The idea of being humble, learning from one's mistakes and correcting things that have not worked does not even look like something GM wants to do.

The high overheads that GM continues to pay for and the large amounts it is hemorrhaging for legacy costs are just one factor.The basic problem is that people at GM have been drained of any enthusiasm for the car business by the finance and accounting types who have run the engineers and product developers out of the senior decision making positions.The case of Robert Stempel comes to mind.He was axed in a board room coup d'etat by the accountants led by John Smith.That event to me represented the downfall of the engineers.The downfall of GM from that point on was only a matter of time.

[Cooley Hurd]

34. Everything old is new again...

I watched "Roger & Me" again a few nights ago. It feels just like the '80's - I'm half-anticipating the release of Kajagoogoo's latest hit.:puke: