Has any conservative confronted you?

[Juice45]

Did a conservative ever get very defensive about you being critical of bush? Did they accuse you of having no proof to back up your claims? Did your head explode instantaneously, or did it slowly melt?

I pose these questions because of an incident a while back when I was a lurker/non-poster here. Two freinds of mine, both who are on the right, a friends cousin, and myself were at a bar enjoying a show and some brews. Somehow, alpha male(cousin) got on a rant about how some problem was the fault of liberals. I bit my tongue for about two seconds, then it was me against three. I mentioned things such as civil rights, lavor unions etc. Turns out, to these people all things good were done by someone not liberal. The topper was when one of them said "the civil war wasn't about slavery". There argument was states rights and economics. I thought economics, like cheap labor?

The point of this rant is I don't think i'll ever get one of these people to view the world anyother way. It's a sad tale because they are decent people. They always had rooves their heads. Always had food. Until they suffer, I don't see them ever stepping back and trying to gain a new perspective. It was a very frustrating/dis-heartening night.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. The old Civil War trick

I encountered it about 15 years ago.

"You know, the Civil War wasn't fought over Slavery, it was fought over economic issues," the Righty said to me, "and how the North was exploiting the South."

"True enough," I replied, "but I'm still not happy with Jeff Davis and Company using the Slaves as fodder for their war."

It helps to know a little Confederate history, too -- or any subject near and dear to one's adversaries.

--p!

[Juice45]

2. When he dropped that economics bomb....

I was thinking "Yeah, they wanted to keep their free labor you ficktard"

Many reasons were afoot in the civil war. For these guys to imply slavery had nothing to do with it like it was a bystander is somewhat silly.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. I just let 'em talk themselves out

Get a winger talking, and he'll soon make a complete and total ass of himself, even to his fellow "thinkers".

I usually go one argument in; when I get a sense of what's going on, I shift back into political psychoanalyst mode and let them babble about Clinton's dingus and Mom's titties. The ones who are not too far gone will calm down. But most of them will work themselves up into a frenzy and no one will fail to notice who the jackass is -- and why.

--p!

[Gold Metal Flake]

3. You gotta study.

It's easy for rightards, they just talk out of their asses.

Civil war. Wanna know if it was for slavery or states rights? Look at the individual state's articles of cessesion.

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/debunk/secession.htm

You knock down a rightard sumbitch with this shit, they stay knocked down.

Your last paragraph is the straight truth.

[Juice45]

8. Latter, i thought of a great point...

If Abe hadnt signed the Emancipation Proclemation, would have the war happened? The non-response would have been astounding im sure.

[MichiDem]

18. Might want to rethink that arguement

the war was quite well underway before Abe made the Emancipation Proclamation.

[Inland]

17. Those articles of sucession are great original source material.

First, it shows that the south was fighting for slavery, even if the North was fighting for a variety of reasons.

Second, it shows that the southerners hadn't learned the lesson learned by their descendants---just lie about why you are doing something and nobody can ever claim you are a racist. The states declaring secession were damn articulate of their pride of slavery and desire to dissolve the Union in order to preserve it.

[LittleClarkie]

4. I got called a Communist

for just saying I was a Kerry supporter. He said I could go to N. Korea or Cuba or something, but he'd have no place to go if Kerry the commie got in.

I get so sick of being called a socialist or a communist.

[Sparkly]

7. It's funny how they throw those words around.

Favorite line from a recent C-Span caller: "Communism is alive and well in Madison, Wisconsin!"

[LittleClarkie]

11. Damn, we're smooth

I live about an hour and a half from there.

[Sparkly]

14. You Commie!

:P

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

20. yet bush is in the beijing butchers' pocket

just like bush I clinton regan ford and nixon before him

[bunkerbuster1]

5. I'm confronted regularly

I make my case with facts; I try to let the more idiotic arguments slide with a dismissive remark and re-focus on the real issues.

I don't always change minds, but I try to leave the other guy better informed.

If you're arguing the liberal side based solely on your basic emotional feeling that we're just right because liberals have, throughout history, ALWAYS been right, well, you'll lose.

You have to make it about the money, most of the time. Most "conservatives" have no idea how badly they're being screwed by the theiving scum that call themselves Republicans today. They're getting screwed by our healthcare system; they're getting screwed by a criminal justice system that doesn't keep us safe, but focuses on an idiotic "War on Drugs." They're getting screwed by fiscally irresponsible twits who think it's A-ok to service ever-increasing debt loads.

Jeez, have these people not looked at economic trends? Do they not know that Bush's economy sucks ass?

As for the social issues, well, confront their fears. Most of the "conservative" dogma is about exploiting irrational fears of queers, women, and brown-skinned people. And they know it, but they cover it up.

Don't back down. But do arm yourself with facts.

[Sparkly]

6. Some people don't seek the truth, they seek excuses to avoid it

and rightwingbots readily provide them with scripts, enabling them to keep hanging on to the rightwing bullshit.

In my opinion, they're afraid to let go, because they're afraid of losing the social status quo. They're afraid that if all were fair, they'd have something to lose.

Just my humble, totally unscientific opinion. :)

[Warpy]

10. Most of them are going to have to learn the hard way

and they're dragging us down with them.

A conservative is a selfish jerk whose job hasn't been offshored or simply eliminated to give a CEO a bigger bonus.

Face it, until they get kicked in the teeth, they're going to think this bunch is just dandy.

[Ariana Celeste]

12. Only a friend online.

Claims that she'd vote Libertarian if it would make a difference, but it wouldn't, so she votes R. She and I can rarely talk anymore because of our political differences. We don't hate eachother, just are divided right now. Whenever backed into a corner, it's "But, Bill Clinton!" or, "Want corruption? Ted Kennedy!" Ugh.

The only Conservatives, Repubs, Fundies, etc. I know in person, are all relatives of mine or my husbands, so we don't talk politics with them, and if it does get brought up, we remain civil and mainly just joke about it. Except my fundy uncle, I just smile and nod and move on, ignoring it.

[livinginphotographs]

13. When they bring up the Civil War

mention that most of the seceding states, in their Articles of Secession, specifically mentioned slavery (from memory, I know Mississippi's had it practically in the first sentence).

And most people take for granted the benefits of liberalism (i.e. the 40-hour work week, OSHA, etc.)

Tell them if they don't like paying taxes, move to Afghanistan. No police, no roads, no firefighters, no building codes, etc.

[karlrschneider]

15. I've found a talking point that gets them to at least 'think' a little bit

Yes, I get 'confronted' often since I'm a very publicly identified liberal in a really 'red' area (eastern Oklahoma)...

I use a little bit of misdirection and ask "And how much does it cost yu to fill up the gas tank on your car now compared with 4 years ago?"

Of course I don't make any overt claim that it's Chimp's fault (which honestly it mostly isn't), but it does make a subtle point. Nothing about the Iraq/WMD lies, PNAC or any other foreign policy issues gets any traction with the braindead fundies around here, but a purely monetary one that they can see at the gas pump does get their attention.

[insane_cratic_gal]

16. they usually run away

from me.. or wish they did

[Festivito]

19. Here too. They confronted, then ran, hid, and best: shut-up.

One smarty lasted through one paragraph of my rebuttle and, to my knowledge, never returned to his bar seat. After months of confronting others I'm told.

My poor brother cannot even talk to me without dropping some Rushy tidbit. So, he's decided to not talk with me, nor his bedridden dying mother. A true Republican.