Man Dies After Police Taser Him (Another day, another...)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

One person is dead after police used a taser on him Monday night.

Police were called to the Western hotel around 8 p.m. when a man caused a disturbance and refused to leave the casino. An officer used a taser on the man twice before paramedics were able to get him in ambulance.

He was rushed to Valley Hospital where he was pronounced dead just after 9 p.m.

The officer who used a taser on the suspect is on adminstrative leave.
<snip>

a little more: http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3444256&nav=168XalSo

Tasers, the non-lethal tool that only kills some of the time.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. When?

When will people wake up to this awful weapon?

If I were to electrocute someone, I would go to jail.

[liberalnurse]

38. Dream on.....because they are here to stay!

Fantastic tool! The greatest tool since the creation of the Internet.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

43. The more I read your posts, the more convinced I am that....

...you're here on this board to be as divisive and disagreeable as possible.

If you think that a taser is a "fantastic tool", even though you know that the use of the taser has been responsible for the deaths of 75-85 people at this point in time, then you have issues that may be beyond hope.

JMHO.

[liberalnurse]

45. I'm on this board because I am a

life long Democrat......and have been here a long time discussing our growth as Democrats...

I personally find the Tasers to be an extremely valuable tool to Law Enforcement. I see what Officers deal with 24/7 and have also seen the career busting injuries and heart broken families of dead Officers prior to the Taser. Tasers work, and work well at containing a potentially violent suspect and defusing the out of control offender.

It's simple.....follow the Officers orders and he/she won't have to use them. They must protect their safety as well as innocent by-standers. These Officers are not robots! They are everyday folks with families, lives and a future they wish to enjoy. They are out numbered ten-fold by the assholes who only think of themselves. Follow the simple rules and fight the arrest in a court of law, in a civil fashion. Believe you me....Tasers are here to stay.

[AX10]

52. and when a Florida cop tasers a 12 year old for cutting class...

that COP is out of line. The Taser is being abused. Maybe those cops who are using this weapon too often get some sadistic pleasure out of shocking people. The taser is being used as an easy way for cops to deal with their job, as opposed to doing it properly.

God Bless America!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

60. Hey, there are still some "question authority" people left in the world

who have not drank the kool aid of authority must be respected because it is authority.

If you get all wet over law enforcement, fine. But don't expect everyone else to. What, do you own stock in Taser?

[Spinzonner]

2. Aren't you grateful that the police are now using non-lethal force

[AX10]

3. Yosarian, just to let you know there are some here who will...

flame you even though most will back you including myself. If a person is NOT attempting to or is assaulting someone else, I do justify the usage of such aggressive force. I have mixed feelings about the taser gun. Please click on the link in my sig line to read about the abuses of taser guns.



http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/tasers_5_officers_face_charges.htm

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. Wow. He was "suspicious!" Certainly deserved a chance on the

wheel of death for that one.

And we all know that a police officer would never color a report to make the suspect appear worse than truth after the guy has had the shit tasered out of him.

[AX10]

31. Ignore the second sentence, I mistyped.

I am ANTI-Taser Gun!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

35. Oh, I know! I was being a bit sarcastic relating to the first link/story

in your post. Great site for stories and data. Thanks.

[Demit]

4. Yes, well you see, a tool that kills only some of the time is a better

choice than a tool which COULD kill more often, sort of, such as a gun (I think I have the reasoning right, that I've read here). Although that distinction must be rather lost on all the people dead from being shocked with tasers.

Oh, and plus, the officer made a good decision. Such a good decision, presumably, that he made it twice.

[AX10]

5. See the links here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3805141&mesg_id=3805141

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

6. So, you believe they would have shot the man for not leaving a casino

if this were a few years ago and there were no tasers?

I think they would have called for back up, subdued him physically, cuffed him and hauled his ass out.

[Demit]

10. So do I. I was mimicking the taser apologists I've read on other threads.

But they'll probably be here any moment, ready to defend tasers up, down and sideways, in their own words.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

13. LOL.... Gawd, I'm sorry... There are so many taser heads out here...

One of them actually said she thought the officer was being kind by tasering a motorist (once in the car and once as she laid screaming on the pavement) with an attitude and nothing else.

Guess I'm getting hypersensitive to the subject.

:toast:

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalnurse]

63. Oh for Christ Sake!

You really are green.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

64. LOL!!!!

On edit: Welcome to DU!

[AX10]

7. "Such a good decision, presumably, that he made it twice."

When officers are "tasered" so that they know what it feels like, they only get one 5 second burst of power at worse, some departments only give a three second shock. Now we have officers(SS) who are shocking people multiple times. Sure it's only 5 seconds of PAIN MANY times over and over!

[Demit]

12. Er, I was being tres sarcastic, and apparently not coming across.

I think the cops are being trigger-happy with these things.

[AX10]

14. No, no...I understood that you we're being sarcastic. I wanted...

to point out that officers are tasering people more than ONE TIME. Taser says that it takes only one time to disable a person, yet the cops are using the gun repeatedly.

[Demit]

16. I'm beginning to wonder if these things aren't bring out the latent sadist

in some of these cops...if they aren't getting a rush from the actual shooting of them, which is why they can't resist doing it a second time even if it's not necessary. That woman face-down in the street last year was not posing a threat. From the sound of that big burly cop, he was enjoying his authority--and his power to inflict hurt--just a little too much.

[AX10]

59. Bingo!

[bpilgrim]

33. not when dealing with NON VIOLENT offenders

hello...

peace

[sendero]

44. Yeah..

.... and why not use an expensive tool that sometimes kills even though a $10 net would do the same job and never kill anyone?

Eventually, someone is going to win a HUGE civil award over this shit and the taser will be over with. Too bad hundreds more will have to die before someone breaks the news to the police that the taser is simply not a non-lethal weapon.

[KansDem]

58. I think you hit on a new marketing strategy for Taser™ , Inc.

"a tool that kills only some of the time..."

Picture this:
A picture of Abe Lincoln holding a Taser™. The copy reads:

Taser™ . Because you can only kill all the suspects some of the time, and some of the suspects all the time, but you cannot kill all the suspects all the time!

Whadda' say we run this up the flag pole and see who salutes?

[tkmorris]

61. The trouble is

that Tasers are being used in situations where the alternative is NOT a gun. Tasers are being used in many situations simply in order to force people to obey an officers commands. I don't think anyone is arguing that people shouldn't have to listen to police officers, but not doing so in most situations does NOT warrant shooting them, or the use of a Taser.

When you simplify the situation down to a choice between using a Taser or using a gun, yes the Taser seems a better alternative. It's also a faulty argument because the Taser is not being used in that fashion. It is being used in situations where if an officer had instead opted to simply shoot the subject the officer would have been summarily fired, and rightfully so.


EDIT: I missed the sarcasm mate, sorry bout that. For anyone who really believes Taser>Gun though, see above :)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

62. The taser is being used as "instant justice" when a cop gets pissed

at an asshat who is behaving poorly, he now has an option other than putting a fist in a face which might get him busted.

Trouble is, sometimes people die when adrenelin levels are up or the hits at just the wrong moment and causes the heart to seriously malfunction.

[Xithras]

8. I watched an interesting show on Discovery a few days ago

It was called Zapped, and it chronicled the efforts of some group to set a Guiness record for the longest human electrical circuit. What I found interesting was their requirement that all 250 participants receve ECG's before participating. Why? Because even though the power was only a fraction of that generated by stun guns, it was more than enough to stop the heart of someone who already had an electrical problem. IIRC, they said about 5% of the population has electrically related heart problems, most of who are undiagnosed, and that ANY kind of electrical jolt is potentially lethal.

I wonder how many of these Taser deaths are the result of shocking people with these kinds of heart problems? We know that the vast majority of taser shockings leave no ill effects, but have always had this small percentage that reacted badly or died after being shocked. There MUST be some correlation.

I wonder how the public will react the first time some cop zaps and kills an old man with a pacemaker.

[AX10]

11. Xithras, please read this article about taser dangers.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/tasers_expert_warns_against.htm

email it and pass it to anyone you can find.

[Xithras]

15. Interesting, but not likely the cause of the problem.

In order to stop a normal beating heart, you have to induce a current across the heart. When they stop a heart in surgery, they do this by placing the paddles on two different sides of the heart. In contrast, a Taser plants two electrodes next to each other, usually on an extremity or away from the chest. This really isn't likely to induce any current across the heart, and is very unlikely to kill anyone.

People with pre-existing electrically caused heart problems, on the other hand, don't need a zap across the heart to short everything out. Since they're already operating in a compromised state, they just need a tiny jolt from ANY direction to push them over the edge and cause cardiac arrest.

IIRC, out of the 260-odd people who volunteered for the experiment, 10 were disqualified because of heart abnormalities, and two had abnormalities so severe that they were counseled to see a doctor right away. If ANY of those people were tasered, they could quite easily be killed. The other 250 would just shake it off.

[Kagemusha]

17. It's the soft skull defense.

If these tasers are lethal to a certain % of the population, are they really 'safe'? I know the company says, 'Our tasers never killed anyone.' So if a bee stings a person allergic to bees, do we say, the bee did not kill him, the condition did? The proper answer is both, but of course no corporation will admit such a thing because of legal liability issues...

[Thor_MN]

21. They don't appear to be that accurate

that they can place the electrodes next to each other. Granted this is based on seeing 4 or 5 demos on TV, usually a police officer getting shocked. But based on those limited observations, at 10 feet, the electrodes were never closer than 4 or 5 inches apart. A stun gun with a fixed distance between the electrodes would be less likley to place a shock across the heart, but the random aspects involved with shooting wired darts makes it more probable.

I highly doubt that many people are aiming at a persons extremities. When someone pulls the trigger, they are almost certainly aiming for center mass, chest or back. The odd dart may hit an arm held in front the body or just be bad aim, but it's not where the person was aiming. I'm surprised that there hasn't been news of someone being darted in the eye (Ralphie, you'll put your eye out!!) or face.

I guess the overall problem is that the 4% or so of people that have pre-existing electrically caused heart problems aren't wearing big signs that state their preference to subdued with a weapon that isn't going to stop their heart. Either that, or it's the claims by the manufacturer that if you use it exactly as intended, you can't harm anyone permanently - that they are perfectly safe.

[Dover]

18. Horrible! Sounds like a class action suit could come of this..

How many taser deaths now?

[name not needed]

19. I'm just gonna wait for the police brutality advocates to show up

:popcorn:

[AX10]

27. You're going to need alot more popcorn.

:)

[athena]

20. More than seventy people have died shortly after being tasered.

Anyone who thinks tasers don't cause pain and spasms needs to read this:
http://www.alternet.org/rights/21718/

excerpts:
Last summer, The New York Times reported that at least fifty people had died within a short time after being hit with a taser. By November, when Amnesty International released its own report, that number had risen to more than seventy.

...

According to Taser International, that's the point. The "uncontrollable contraction of the muscle tissue" allows the taser "to physically debilitate a target regardless of pain tolerance or mental focus," says the company website. The tasers "directly tell the muscles what to do: contract until the target is in the fetal position on the ground."

...

"Crowder wasn't the oldest person hit by a taser. The oldest one on record was 75-year-old Margaret Kimbrell of Rock Hill, South Carolina, who describes the electricity from the taser as traveling "all over your chest like a big snake or something worming to try to get out." Kimbrell says, "I prayed, 'Lord, Jesus, make it quicker.' I was waiting to die so the pain would go away." Police used the taser on Kimbrell when she refused to leave a nursing home and, the police claimed, tried to hit an officer."

[athena]

22. And here is the story of the woman who got tasered for yelling:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2005/05/29/a17a_taser_vig3_0529.html

She was tasered on the breast and has scars from the probes. All she did was yell at a couple of police officers for not helping her. They tasered her twice, and then claimed she punched one of them on the arm. She said she was not even close enough to touch him.

This is a sad, sad country. :(

[AX10]

25. In order to control the police....

two things must occur:

1-The USSC must rule that police do NOT have the right to use a broad range of discretion when decided to use agressive force. (basically, police need to be put in their place: that is, they are protectors of the community, not DICTATORS)

2-One community (in which the police have had a history of abuse of powers) needs to have law suit brought against them. In this suit, the officer(s) must be BANKRUPTED (they are put out on the street) and the city needs to be hit HARD (millions upon millions of dollars). That will make people change their tune.

I see this as the only solution.

[liberalnurse]

46. She chose poorly.......

She got herself Tasered.......

[merh]

48. The cop chose poorly in tasing her.

He faces losing his job, since he lied about her fighting, which apparently the backup cop would not support because she was only charged with NON VIOLENT resisting arrest. There are 40 seconds of video missing, he failed to provide to give his badge number when asked during the initial stop phase and he tasered her TWICE, the second time while she was still experiencing the pain from the first because she wouldn't put her arms behind her back (listen to ALL of the video).

The cop not only faces losing his job, he faces federal charges, violating the civil rights of the woman under the color of the law.

NO cop has the right to taser some one because they didn't jump as high as he said jump when he said jump.

[Voltaire99]

23. The Great American Taser BBQ

Step right up. Your flesh could be next!

[merh]

24. Pffft

He probably deserved it, he didn't follow the orders of the police and they are the LAW!!! :sarcasm:

F*ckin idiots -- this is a dangerous weapon. How many have to die before they figure it out! :argh:

Where are the taser supporters to say that he knew what he was up against when he didn't jump as high and as fast as the police ordered?
:mad:

[AX10]

26. merh, once we confront them with the TRUTH, they go hiding...

because they will have to resort to Savage and Limbaugh for advice.

[merh]

34. Hello Ax!

:hi:

They either hide or threaten you with stalking! :rofl:

I do get these taser freaks, not a one will touch the person while the charge is still active, but you know, that taser doesn't hurt! :silly:

[AX10]

53. "Hi merh!" I'll tell you now.....

this tasering crap has to be dealt with. The new Patriot Act (II) will give the FBI the powers to search our homes WITHOUT a warrent! :wtf: If we tolerate cops making everyone a guilty criminal without a trial then what comes next. A police state is very real, and Bush will ensure it!

What do we do?

:(

[merh]

57. We continue to enlighten folks.

We continue to voice our concerns and scream at the top of our lungs that we have rights and we demand that they be respected.

Oh, by the way, they do the warrantless searches now under Patriot Act I. I don't clean my house, they can come in an be grossed out by it and have to deal with it. And besides, the dust provides for a perfect way to tell if someone has been in the house, they smudge it and leave prints. :rofl:

[tblue37]

37. Oh, they will be here soon.

They always are.

[Guaranteed]

28. But 50,000V's won't kill anyone.

It's only the AMPS that matter!

This newspaper must be lying.

Or, Tasers must have a lot of amps, too.

[AX10]

29. The new "M26 taser" has 26mA and it takes only....

30mA to stop you from breathing.

The old guns have 15mA.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. Interesting graphic on taser deaths

[Jammer]

32. Texas only has 3 deaths? They must still use Guns>>>>

[athena]

39. Dude, that's not strictly true.

"50,000 Volts won't kill anyone" is nonsense. It all depends on the conditions. In this case, it usually doesn't kill, because it isn't sustained long enough. But when the voltage is sustained, as little as 100 Volts can kill; even 30-Volt deaths have been recorded. Saying that the voltage is irrelevant is absolutely wrong, because the current is related to the voltage: it's the voltage divided by the resistance, and the human body's electrical resistance is very low once skin is pierced. So a very small sustained voltage can produce a lethal current.

The modern taser starts with 50,000 Volts to establish a current, and then goes to a low-voltage mode for five seconds, providing enough current to start severe muscle contractions. If the current passes through the heart, it can do all sorts of unpredictable damage. Read my post #20.

The effect of electrical shocks on the body is very complicated, and not always predictable. The police are using these unbelievably high voltages and dangerously high currents, without completely understanding the possible consequences of what they're doing.

[AX10]

51. "sustained voltage" When tasers are used on COPS so that...

they know what it feels like, the Cop is "tased" for 5 seconds at worse. There are TOO many stories of Cops abusing their power when they hit a person multiple times. Once the person is on the ground after the first hit, the cop should get on the ground and put the cuffs on IF NEEDED. Multiple hits could cause damage, too much pain, and death.

[BiggJawn]

36. "CHA-CHING!!!! More money, Mr. Kerik?"

"Put that bag of money out in my car...Uh, George, where would you like your bag left?"

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

40. Ain't that the truth. n/t

[shadowknows69]

41. So, drunk and disorderly is a capital crime now?

no jury, just execution. what the fuk country do I live in again?

[shadowknows69]

42. for any cops that ever encounter me in a situation

where you feel I'm being unruly and in need of incapacitation. I have just one request. Put a bullet in my leg instead of zapping me please.

[liberalnurse]

47. I'm sure that can be arranged.

It was a popular option of the past. Just so you know, you take the risk of deadly force being just that......

[Lerkfish]

49. so, that's our choice? electrocution or gunshot?

for being arrested and not even coming to trial?

um...ok, then.

[shadowknows69]

55. well, I'd rather be killed by something designed for it

I'm just funny that way. Makes it easier for my family to sue too.

[renaissanceguy]

50. BAN THESE TASERS!

This is insanity, a clear abuse of power. The cops should be held personally responsible for these deaths.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/466053

[Occulus]

56. I'll second that. Tasers should be completely banned.

Police have other tools, tried and true (and I'm NOT talking about guns). They should be using those.

The taser is a portable electric chair. We should NOT be tolerating this.