Say what you want about Bev Harris, but at the beginning it was all good.

[trumad]

Old-timers know what I am talking about. This forum was humming with activity regarding BBV and a whole bunch of shit came out of it that exposed the corruptness of Diebold, etc.

Unfortunately the movement was led by someone in it for the money and someone who would do ANYTHING for it.

There's a bunch of good people , some here now, some not, who worked their asses off to protect our rights as Americans to see that our votes count. :toast:

Now for those who are posting the "I told ya so's" about Bev Harris, fine, you're geniuses. None of us knew at the beginning that this would play out like this with Bev..... But it did!

Diss Bev all you want but don't be coming in here dissing the original intent of the movement, what it uncovered, etc, because if you do you're dissing the hundreds of hard working, well intentioned DUers who were involved.

Another words, don't pull a fucking Fredda on us. Nuff said!

[LisaM]

1. Sigh. I know.

Well, luckily, the issues remain the same.

On edit, I shouldn't say "LUCKILY." I just meant, all exposure is good.

[benburch]

2. I agree.

I was trying to get Bev to give me all of the code files long ago, though, and she never would give them to me.

I analyze compiled firmware for a living, or used to before I started running White Rose as my business, and I could never understand why she would not give me her complete set of Diebold files.

The MOVEMENT was 100% spot-on, but Bev seems to have been involved only to discredit it.

[Andy_Stephenson]

4. I have the complete set of files Ben

I will look for them today and would be happy to give them to you.

[benburch]

5. Please!

I'll see what I can make of them.

webmaster at whiterosesociety dot org

[Maat]

36. How are you, Andy?

Hope that you are feeling a little better.

[Maat]

57. I found out how you were.

I was able to listen to you on Mike Malloy!

[Stephanie]

3. Fredda! LOL!

Oh geez, ROFLMAO! Don't you know the rule? Never invoke her name! If you do she will appear! Fredda Krueger.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Oy vey, Fredda

Wow.

[Stephanie]

21. Do NOT invoke the name!

If you say it she will appear!

[kath]

38. YIKES! She Who Must Not Be Named!

[Touchdown]

44. OK, I give. Who is this female Voldemort

...and what did she who must not be named do?:shrug:

[EFerrari]

7. I don't even want to know.

:)

[Cleita]

8. This is true and it needs to be brought out that the

majority of the work uncovering possible corruption in the election system, particularly about the electronic voting machines, was done by DUers. It was then that Bev Harris jumped in and said she was going to go with it and then she took credit for all that work that was done and continued to be done by DUers until she was exposed.

[Andy_Stephenson]

9. She still has others doing the work

and claims she is doing it.

[Cleita]

10. Let's hope they are freepers this time.n/t

[question everything]

Andy! Great to see you up and about

How are you feeling?

(sorry if I have missed all the threads updating you...)

[Catherine Vincent]

14. Andy, I thought you got rid of that cysta by the name of Bev?

:hi:

[Andy_Stephenson]

16. I did!

It is resting in a freezer in the basement of Johns Hopkins.

Now I am getting ready for chemo therapy and radiation.

[hiley]

49. cat_girl25

long time no see ! Hope you are doing well you know I miss you !
Your tag line is very needed.
thanks
hiley

:grouphug:

[Kelvin Mace]

23. The credit for cracking his story

belongs to MANY here at DU.

[question everything]

11. OK, I'll ask

what or who is/was Fredda?

[kath]

39. See above - do not invoke the name!

[bpilgrim]

12. dig it, BBV was an ISSUE long before Bev claimed ownership

well said :toast:

peace

[Andy_Stephenson]

13. Problem is...

she still claims ownership.

[benburch]

15. She claims to be a human being too.

But we all know otherwise.

[bpilgrim]

34. that don't matter...

lot's of people do, all that matters is that lots more learn and take OWNERSHIP of the issue by passing it on ;->

:hi: Andy_Stephenson, very glad to see you at the key-board again :toast:

peace

[ValentinoM]

60. How good to see you up and about Andy..

You have many fans that were lurking all through the Bev fiasco, and your fight with cancer and were grateful for you intervention in the fraud.. and then with your courageous fight! You are indeed a inspiration to us all.. Thank you and here is hoping for continuing good health..

[On the Road]

17. Some of the Early Work

was so good. The unusual features in the code. The demonstrations of how machines could be hacked. Very specific -- name, rank, and serial number.

I sure as hell wish there was some ongoing work of that nature.

[hunter]

18. Kick, for no solid reasons.

The political machine is broken. Do we fix it or build a new one?

I don't know yet.

[TeeYiYi]

19. I don't think people should be . . .

. . . using this board to dis Bev at all. If they have a personal problem with her, they should take it up with her in person. Hence, the meaning behind 'personal' in 'personal problem'.

No individual 'personal' complaint can take anything away from what Bev Harris did to expose the lies and duplicity of Diebold, or her hard work in trying to shut down the potential for vote theft in the run-up to the 2004 election. And she's still working every day, trying to investigate the many voting anomalies with her requests for confidential documents through the Freedom of Information Act. She hasn't stopped trying to expose the truth yet and she's still a hero in my eyes.

Is everyone on this board trying as hard as Bev Harris to make sure that our votes count?

TYY

[trumad]

20. Uhhh like she never used this board for her own gain.

Please.... She tore people apart on this board when ever she felt like it and finally had to be banned for it. She tossed out unproven accusations at numerous DUers on this forum... She asked for donations on DU and when asked to account for them told us to stick it up our ass.

AND now your fucking hero has found a cozy little home in FreepVille. Fuck your Hero!

[Kelvin Mace]

25. Read this thread

to get the facts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x340188

To reiterate what I have said before:

1) "It doesn't matter if Bev libels people and lies as long as she stops BBV". (the ends justify the means).

Do I really have to explain to liberals why this is immoral?

2) "Bev said..."

We have heard Bev's claims. We have seen no evidence to back up these claims. We have been very careful to document our claims with links, and emails (Bev's own words). The word of someone caught in multiple lies is not "proof".

3) "Bev has saved the world, what have you done?"

*sigh* If you really wanted to know (and I don't think you do) you could avail yourself to Google and find out what we are doing. We never claimed to be saving the world, just fighting paperless voting the best we can. It has been my experience that people who ask this question really don't care to know the facts.

4) "After all Bev did..."

Bev didn't do it on her own, (in fact she did DAMNED little of it) she had help, LOTS of help. She rewarded the people who helped her by publicly smearing them.

5) "Prove to me that Bev..."

I've posted the proof. Read the links.

6) "No, point me to a summary or specific post that proves your case."

Sorry. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, we require our proofs to be read IN CONTEXT. Anything else would be unfair and deceptive. Reading and thinking is hard work. It's why we are liberals and not freepers.

It is regrettable this is necessary, but Bev's "help" is making our job harder.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[trumad]

26. Uh. David.. Did you mean to reply to me on this....?

[Kelvin Mace]

27. Nope, I missed the intended reciepient!

<g>

Sooooorrrrryyy!

[Kelvin Mace]

24. Sorry

Bev did very little other than take credit for other people's work.

She then routinely came here and smeared other people PUBLICLY accusing them of things it turns out she was guilty of.

Let me spell this out for you:

Bev Harris did LITTLE TO NO ORIGINAL WORK ON BBV.

Not the original research, not the software analysis, not the Diebold email, not even the name "black box voting". All of this came from OTHER people.

She CLAIMS to have made FOIA requests, even raised money for it, but we have yet to see the results of those requests or even the raw data.

Is everyone on this board trying as hard as Bev Harris to make sure that our votes count?

Do you know how sick I am of this question?

FYI, yes many of us have. If you really care to know, the information of "who and what" is EASILY found..

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[troubleinwinter]

33. I am sick of it, too.

"...we have yet to see the results of those requests or even the raw data."

Starting many months ago, I requested info on how many FOIAs had been complied with, and how many had not, asking where to find the info on her site. To date, there is no such info posted.

I asked how to find the documents that she had promised to post online. I got a long, drawn out explanation of how hard it is to hook up a scanner (?!!!). Months passed. I asked again. No response. Asked again.... my email has now been blocked.

To date, there has been ZERO accounting of how many FOIAs have been complied with, and how many have not.

ZEEEEERO.

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Bev said she was going to file FOIAs

in every county in the U.S., that means 3000+ counties.

At the time she made this claim, I said this was not practical even given her million dollars on hand.

I conservative estimate is that each request would generate 100 pages of documents, or 300,000+ pages of material.

Who was going to look through all this material? No matter how you do the numbers, you would be looking at tens of thousands of man hours to organize, process and analyze the results.

Heard about any activities of this magnitude?

[Andy_Stephenson]

48. 3674

to be exact.

[Kelvin Mace]

55. Did you ever seen even one FOIA come back from a county?

Activists here did a single county and it generated 400 pages. If I used that as a base-line, Bev's claimed FOIA would have generated 1,469,600 pages, or 293 cases of records weighing 14,650 lbs (7.3 tons) and occupying 475 cubic feet of space.

[troubleinwinter]

51. "Heard about any activities of this magnitude?"

HAH! I haven't seen any evidence of any magnitude at all! She begged that a high-speed scanner be donated for the purpose of placing these documents online. She eventually said she had obtained one. MONTHS ago. OK, so where are these documents????? And still no accounting whatsoever of which counties have/have not complied with the FOIAs. One would keep close track of this, had one been serious about obtaining the information???

OH! Speaking of accounting! I do wonder exactly when the financial reports will be available. Yeah....

[Kelvin Mace]

54. Don't hold your breath

we like you.

[bpilgrim]

35. Bev Harris is a public figure

with 0 cred, what you talk'n bout :shrug:

peace

[Kelvin Mace]

22. Again, I don't know anyone who said the

problem being discusses was wrong in any way.

As to Bev's "original intent", I believe that was to get rich and famous. She latched onto the work of other people to do that.

[paula777]

28. It appears to me that she did more harm than good.

I wasn't involved with helping so I really don't have much of a voice in here. But from what I have read, she delayed the process when timing was of the essence. She delayed things because she pretended people were after her, she wouldn't turn over evidence (video tapes, etc) of any of her findings and the clock just kept ticking and then ran out and the election was certified and now were stuck with BushCo. Had she been willing to turn over some of the evidence to the media, there might have been more suspicion on the part of the media (and then public). Thus, in my opinion, she did more harm than good.

[Generic Other]

29. I was a brainwashed BBV cheerleader

I followed each new discovery and development with keen interest. I understood little less than half of what was said, but I did understand enough to know that the core discoveries of the group were NOT the work of Bev Harris alone. She merely assumed a position of leadership because of her zeal and devotion to get people excited about the issue. She was the self-appointed leader and primary PR person, the one who kept the issue at the top of the GD forum. She asked a lot of questions when she posted at DU. Other DUers came up with the answers. She blasted press releases, went on TV, and compiled a book to promote the issue.

Thanks to the combined work of a whole lot of very bright people, we got to peek behind the crack in the curtain and see firsthand how compromised the electoral process is. I appreciated being part of this group of activists who tirelessly researched and educated others about this all-important issue.

Bev's abysmal behavior doesn't take away from the respect I have for those activists at DU who contributed to this effort.

[Lerkfish]

30. didn't she eliminate the ability to go after diebold?

that's what I surmise by her "settlement' lawsuit. Doesn't what she did actually protect any future lawsuits with diebold?

not a lawyer, just asking out of ignorance.

But if my surmise is correct, then her current affiliation with freepers seems suspect. She could have been a diebold counteragent all along.

[benburch]

31. Yes, as I understand it.

And that was her goal from the beginning, clearly.

[Lerkfish]

32. yeah, ok, its not just me that noticed that.

it reminds me of the scene in that movie "a civil action" (I think), when the families just wanted an apology, but Travolta got a settlement instead.
the families just wanted it to never happen to anyone else again.

just like election fraud. We just wanted it to never happen again, and Bev got a settlement instead. The difference is, SHE got the settlement by herself, on top of screwing over the country.

IMHO

[Kelvin Mace]

42. Yep,

her and her bosom pal Jim "Happiness is a clean kill" March got $76,000 a piece. Not only did they sell out California, they sold out CHEAP!

[Lerkfish]

47. well, that's the money you know about..I wouldn't put it past Diebold

to have had her on retainer or slipped her a little more under the table for agreeing to settle.

:shrug:

[Kelvin Mace]

53. This view is espoused on by several people

and may be true, but I don't share it.

I would actually have a bit more respect for her if it were all an elaborate black op instead of just petty greed and vindictiveness.

[GiovanniC]

58. I Didn't Follow That Too Closely

But how is it that Bev & Jim had the ability to accept a settlement on behalf of all of California?

[Fescue4u]

37. Yea, other than scamming people by exploting a real cause

she was a winner!

[stickdog]

40. Bev did a lot of good work, IMHO. And I think she started BBV with her

heart in the right place. Then the snakes started hissing at her about the power, money and control that was on the line. Once you bite that apple, it's all downhill.

[Kelvin Mace]

43. I wish I could believe that,

but shortly after Bev went psycho, I was contaced by the person who did all the original investigation in ES&S and had employed Bev to do PR work for him and his web site. Bev also got the job of organizing the research that was coming in. Bev took all this information and ran with it. For Bev, the ENTIRE venture was self-enrichment and double-dealing from the very beginning.

[troubleinwinter]

52. I would call that sort of behavior

EMBEZZLEMENT. Not of money directly, but one would think there would be ethics against stealing information from your employer or client. Geez.

[symbolman]

45. Here's what kills me about the whole thing

The conning of funds for personal gain, and stolen movies about a stolen election!

The amazing LACK of ethics from some people who were trying to save us from people who had NO ethics or integrity.

It's mind boggling. I've been telling so many progressives that we can't REWARD people for the RIPPING people OFF, yet these same Ripoff artists would then say things like, "Oh, but this subject is SO important that you need to not let your ego get in the way (MY WAY - NOW BEND OVER) so that we can get the word out (AS LONG AS I'M THE SPOKESMAN AND GETTING ALL THE MONEY) and save the election and/or educate the public.."

Educate them in what, ACTING like a Republican? Stealing. Lying. Threatening?

I'm not naming names here, and I agree with Trumad (okay, just this once) that we need to give credit to those that DO have STERLING Reputations and DID do a LOT of work..

Like all the DU'rs who basically WROTE the BOOK, only to have someone else take all the credit, etc.

All the DU'rs who created web sites and fine talking points and organized so well, with massive research.

But I for one was Horribly ripped off (it's still in court btw) and the betrayal we've all felt is hard to take, when we are trying to fight a LARGER Evil and don't need pickpockets pestering us, or STEALING our ethical reputations and websites or names to DO IT.

Like I said, I don't want to name any names, other than to say,

"Hi, I'm Bev Harris and I have the smoking gun that will over turn this election. Send me money. LOTS Of it. BALES of it. I want to roll around and swim in it like Scrooge McDuck in his giant vault. And if you have cancer.. well, you're FIRED, and I will pretend to not even know about it (while my family comprise a huge majority of my board of directors) the very same day it's posted on MY website all WHILE I'm being spanked like a bad monkey by Randi Rhoades on Air America Radio who feels like she's been HAD.."

Sorry, different people grieve in different ways.

Forgive me, I DO have ethics - I swear, but they're going fast and you can have them, the complete set for only three payments of $9.99 cents.

Order now and receive these lovely Ginsu Knives :)

(Mods, where is the Sarcasm emoticon so I don't get in trouble?)

[Junkdrawer]

46. Case in point...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3816282&mesg_id=3816852&page=

[amazona]

50. not enough said...what the hey is this about?

I've been traveling quite a bit and missed a great deal of the day-by-day hoo-ha but I assume that it is now confirmed that certain suspicious activities were indeed suspicious? Who the hey is Fredda?

I'm not sure I see the point in "stirring the pot" in this manner. If you have new information, share it. If it is on a banned topic, then refrain from showing off your insider status by posting cryptic hints. It's kind of rude, like talking in front of other people in an obscure foreign language you know they don't understand.

May we agree that you are one of the cool kids and we are not and go on from there?

If there is real content/information we need to have, post it. Otherwise, let's move on.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

56. If she made the issue prominent it's all good

I don't know who gets the most credit for making the average Joe aware of the machine voting issue but if it's her, the donations were well spent even if she's a scam artist.

[troubleinwinter]

61. No, it is not all good.

A couple of months ago, for weeks and weeks, she hosted a forum on her website consisting of warring factions accusing one another of being spies, liars, infiltrators, of spreading disinformation, conniving, conspiring, etc., etc. Pages and pages of nothing but arguments, personal attacks and accusations and convoluted 'proof'. It was bizarre and hateful, and went on and on and on.

I thought that anyone first coming to her site to learn about BBV issues would see this mess and decide that anyone involved in the issue was probably insane.

It seemed to me at the time, that if one really wanted to discredit the entire effort to get rid of electronic voting, hosting this ugliness would be a good way to do it.

Hmmmm.

[alfredo]

59. The latest

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/11858709.htm Sent to me by a computer expert.