CNN Alert: Pentagon about to lie about Tillman's killing...

[RBHam]

This should be good. I wonder if CNN will DARE to interview his parents afterwards...

Remember this: Pat Tillman wore Birkenstocks. He joined because of honestly believing the 9-11 decption. He refused to be a patriot puppet and be used as a recruiting tool for the Pentagon. He was a smart guy, though. He may have started asking questions. He was worth more dead than alive to the Pentagon...

Question:

Why did the troops who "accidentally" killed Tillman burn his uniform? Why did the Pentagon concoct a myth of a heroic death at the hands of the enemy?

[The Magistrate]

1. So You Are Of The Opinion, Sir, This Was Deliberate Assassination?

[RBHam]

5. Yes, sir, I do.

I opined this position here on DU right after his death was announced. When the Pentagon was pushing his "enemy fire" death...

do a search...

IF he was killed deliberately, how would we ever find out?

Could YOU handle the truth, sir?

[northzax]

8. you have a serious burden of proof

to establish. such an accustation is not to be bantered around lightly.

[RBHam]

10. Oh really? It's just an opinion? Should I get ready for Gitmo?

The Army deliberately attempted to exploit his death...

They needed his death to exploit.

on edit: fixed shaky spelling. I'm a well educated conspriacy theorist, you see...

[northzax]

11. I hear Cuba is nice this time of year

say whatever you want, but don't forget the story of the boy who cried wolf.

[RBHam]

13. Huh?

Was he tortured into confessing to be 3rd in command of Al Qaeda?

Just asking...

[northzax]

15. all I know, is every time I see these types of posts

I run out and buy stock in reynolds. keep em coming, daddy needs a new pair of birkenstocks.

[RBHam]

23. There's a new one!

Ha Ha! Reynold's Tin Foil! Ha Ha!

That's what they told me after I phoned Mike and warned him that Bush was going to steal this election through electronic voting and that Kerry wasn't going to do a damn thing to stop it.

But then, I'm not to be trusted. I've been right.

[GiovanniC]

26. Late Last Night, I Said the Sun Would Come Up This Morning

And by God, it did.

I have a track record of being right about things.

Which is precisely why you should believe me when I tell you that the aliens have been sending evil thoughts through transmissions to our brains. Really.

[northzax]

28. don't believe it, man!

the sun hasn't come up in 50 years, the Manhattan Project eliminated it with nuclear radiation to keep the Germans from getting much needed Vitamin D. It's all in your head.

you're right about the aliens, though.

[northzax]

27. my cliches don't slander people who are

not here to defend themselves without evidence.

you may have something to hold against the leadership of the military, but you have no evidence that the soldiers involved in this incident did anything but make a stupid mistake that is all to common in warfare.

You equate negligence with criminal intent, that is slander.

[RBHam]

32. It's a good thing I am a person of no import...

I alkso believe that Rummy had a Special Operations Unit in Iraq targeting journalists. That Reruters Office in the Palestine Hotel was targeted by a tank - it was caught on film, the Tank took over a minute to calibrate, was filmed raisng its turret into perfect position, then BOOM - dead journalists.

Rumsfeld quickly held a Press Conference and told the Press Corpse that it was an accident, that they were "returning fire" (a claim even Christiane Amanpour disputed, she said there was nobnody in their hotel shooting anywhere).

His word was taken as Gospel.

Soon he'll hold a press conference about Tillman's death.

His lies will be lapped up, as always.

Believe what you will. Live in your rose-coloured world where the US Military could NEVER be polluted by a rogue Neo-Con agenda, dream your naive dreams.

Don't worry, be happy.

[northzax]

34. ok, then

I revise my position. 60 US rangers conspired to assassinate a member of their company. That is what you're saying, right?

you believe the 60 people at the scene are guilty of first degree murder of a fellow soldier. yes?

[RBHam]

39. No

I believe that Tillman was seperated from his unit, that a commander told his unit to fire in a certain direction, they did, and later found out OOPS!

Now...

Who gave the order to fire? By all accounts, Tillman took one burst while he was screaming "I'm a friendly", was still waving frantically when he was hit a second time...

In the fog of War I can easily see a company of well trained men following orders being manipulated into killing one of their own...

Accidental? Sure.

But who gave the order? Why? How closely were these manouvers being monitored by the Brass?

You see what I mean?

I smelt a rat on Day One of this story. perhaps it IS only a "friendly fire tragedy"...

But the WAY they tried to cover it up, create a false story and exploit his death SO BLATANTLY...

It's the LIES! If they lie to us all the time, shouldn't we automatically assume the opposite?

[The Magistrate]

43. In That Case, Sir

Your allegation boils down to a belief that a small unit commander arranged matters to achieve the death of one of his subordinates?

Do you have any suggestions to offer on how this might have been contrived? How the order to do it might have been passed? How the situation itself was deliberately arranged?

My inclination in these matters, Sir, is not to look at the question "Who benefits?" that seems to excite so many, and serve as proof in itself to some, but rather to take first the question, "How might it have really been done?" When no answer that is consistent with the cussed nature of events in this world below seems available, then the question of who benefits becomes rather a distraction: people benefit all the time from things they could not possibly have contrived themselves....

[RBHam]

46. When they make it a POLICY to LIE and DISTORT...

I assume the worst.

[Coventina]

2. Yeah, there's a lot of unanswered questions

I find the whole thing stinks.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Then We Disagree

Perhaps The Magistrate does as well.

I think that the military was not properly prepared, despite their training, to encounter the guerilla tactics of the opposition. As a result of misplaced confidence held by the civilian leadership, and strategic obsolescence on the part of the military leadership, the fight was far more intense and stressful than any of these troops were prepared to face.

As a result, the "shoot anything that moves" mentality takes over, since many of the troops are 19 year old kids who are scared to death.

Incompetence on the part of the leadership led to Tillman's death by friendly fire, IMO. The burning of the uniform was probably scared kids trying to cover their tracks when they realized their tragic mistake.
The Professor

[northzax]

12. on the other hand

these weren't scared regular troops, there were Rangers, with more training than the average grunt.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. Still Unprepared

The leadership let these troops down. They were not expecting the intensity of the resistance and the troops were undertrained for guerilla tactics and urban warfare.

No matter how well you've been trained, being trained in the wrong things is no help when under fire.
The Professor

[RBHam]

21. Why burn his clothes? If it was friendly fire, why the cover up?

And who will be held accountable?

I think you'll find the answers to my queries in the Army's reaction to the fact they were caught red handed covering up this tragedy.

Who will be the fall guy? Some grunt Private who just happened to be near the scene? That's my bet.

And if NOONE in a senior position is ever held accountable, if they are given promotions and rewards instead...

Fill in the blanks.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. That's Not What I'm Arguing

There's clearly a cover-up and yes, some grunt will likely take the fall for deciding to cover tracks.

You stated you think it was an assassination. I think it was a tragic accident caused by the fact that the troops were scared to death because they were not prepared by the civilian or military leadership for this kind of conflict.

Remember that the civilian leaders of the military thought both of these affairs would be EASY! That's hubris that gets people killed. People like Pat Tillman.

Remember that certain military leaders flat out stated that we were unprepared in Desert Storm, Somalia, and Panama for urban warfare.

You think the Rumsfeld gang made that better. Nobody else had up to that point, and that arrogant bunch sure wasn't going to improve anything.

I don't think there was any plan to target Tillman. He was just in a bad place at a bad time, paid the total price, some scared kids realized they shot one of their own. Now it's CYA time. Then, some slime in the Pentagon decided to try to create the whole "hero" story in order to drum up more patriotic fervor.

I do agree that whoever did the latter will never be known and will never be held accountable.

But, there's a wide gulf between cover-ups and opportunism and assassination.
The Professor

[RBHam]

22. Why burn his clothes? If it was friendly fire, why the cover up?

And who will be held accountable?

I think you'll find the answers to my queries in the Army's reaction to the fact they were caught red handed covering up this tragedy.

Who will be the fall guy? Some grunt Private who just happened to be near the scene? That's my bet.

And if NOONE in a senior position is ever held accountable, if they are given promotions and rewards instead...

Fill in the blanks.

[northzax]

37. if it wasn't friendly fire

then is was enemy fire, which you don't believe. so which is it?

[BornLeft]

35. And what pray tell

trains one to be shot at for real? Even under live fire training conditions in the back of your head you know no one will try to kill you. Still little scared boys IMO.

[northzax]

38. well, I don't know who was in this particular unit

so they may have been cristened before, but I was trying to say that more training and selection reduces the fire-panic, so imagine 18 year olds six weeks from their hgh school graduation!

[RBHam]

47. Exactly...

And imagine how easy it would be to cow them into shutting up aout any "inconsistencies" in the official story.

[theboss]

3. I need the Birkenstocks thing explained...

My grandmother wears Birkenstocks. What does that signify?

[RBHam]

7. Right Wing Propaganda Birkenstock wearers are Commies and Hippies

A smear that backfires in this case.

Next time you hear a RWer smearing "Birkenstock wearing hippies" ALWAYS reply, "Pat Tillman wore Birkenstocks. And he was twice the man you claim to be."

[SteppingRazor]

6. Easy answers --

The soldiers burnt the uniform to cover up the friendly fire death. The Pentagon read the report of officers in the field (which at first was all about the heroic death scenario) and just went with what their soldiers told them.

Seems a lot more likely than a scenario wherein the Pentagon decides they want Tillman whacked because he may be having second thoughts about being in the military, so they somehow convince his buddies in his unit to do the deed for them.

[RBHam]

9. HIs buddies in his unit?

They didn't have to be in on it. They would have come upon the scene later and "followed orders" to burn the evidence.

Have you noticed that the Army has said that these items were burned because they were a "bio-hazard"...

Is this standard practice? First time I've EVER heard of this...

Many of your long held beliefs of the military come from a time they were run by honorable people...

[SteppingRazor]

17. You mistake me.

I have no ain't-we-grand beliefs about the military. It's just that in this instance, it makes a lot more sense. There's no reason to have Pat Tillman killed. What's he gonna do? Come back from the war and protest against it? Big freakin' deal. He's small potatos. There's absolutely no motive to have the guy killed. It doesn't make any sense.
The logical explanation, however -- that he was killed by friendly fire -- makes perfect sense.
Occam's razor, and all that.

[RBHam]

19. What's he gonna do? Come back from the war and protest against it?

Yes. That would terrify them! Their poster boy turning against them?

Small potatoes?

Do you have any idea how slavishly right wingers follow the NFL?

I think not.

[SteppingRazor]

24. Hey, now!

Rightwingers aren't the only football fans, y'know. I'm a huge NFL fan, for that matter. As are millions, most of them middle-of-the-road, don't-care-about-politics folks. It's America's pastime, for Chrissake (sorry baseball. You had your chance)

And besides, isn't saying rightwingers slavishly follow the NFL just nonsensical stereotyping? What's more, don't you realize that if Tillman were to come back from Afghanistan and protest, he'd only be a five-minute piece on a 24-hour news cycle before being forgotten? Get serious, dude.

Remember, very few people even heard of Tillman until he died. He wasn't a poster boy until AFTER his death, so your idea about their poster boy turning against them doesn't add up.

I ordinarily have a very open mind regarding DoD depredations, but here, it just doesn't add up.

[RBHam]

29. "very few people even heard of Tillman until he died."

I don't agree. His picture and story was a fixture in every newspaper, on every TV channel, on the lips of every Repug pol or supporter...

His turning against the War WOULD NOT have been tolerated unless they could have smeared him in some way.

Just my opinion.

BTW - I'm a huge NFL fan, but the CFL game is a better product. Faster, more fluid, higher scoring, check it out some time.
More passing, but the run still works as D-linemen have to line up one yard off the ball..

Our balls are bigger, we only need 3 downs to get 10 yards, only one timeout per half besides the 3 minute warning, the clock stops automatically at the end of every play in the last 2 minutes of each half, and we only have 20 seconds between plays to snap the ball, we have 12 players per side on a field 110 yards long, 55 yards wide, end zones 20 yards deep...

[SteppingRazor]

31. Well, we're splitting into two realities here, so we'll have to move on

I know a lot of time has passed, but I'm 99% certain that the Tillman worship didn't really start until after he died.

In any case, yeah, I've checked out a few CFL games before. I like some aspects, dislike others.

Like, I'd like to see one timeout per half in the NFL, but I'd hate the clock stopping after every play in the last two minutes. The dramatic plays as the clock winds down is part of what makes football great -- adds to the suspense and whatnot.

[mark414]

16. you sir

are nuts

[RBHam]

18. Of course...

Saying that the Pentagon deliberately killed Tillman because he refused to play ball and they needed a heroic myth to help recruiting is just as crazy as saying that the Pentagon would deliberately manipulate the media into reporting his heroic death and then try and cover up a "friendly fire" incident WHILE ALSO DELIBERATELY LYING TO THE MAN'S PARENTS...

And who would have thought that the USA would become a Police State that arbitrarily jails people without charge, tortures false confessions out of ignorant peasants into supporting a myth of a Global Islamic Conspiracy, and summarily executes prisoners without so much as a writ of habeus corpus...

Yeah...crazy...

[mark414]

20. i'm with the guy above

i should buy some stock in reynolds...

[fla nocount]

44. Slow down, it's not conspiricy.......no, it's magic.

We live alongside a parallel universe where not one, but two 110 story buildings can fall (at the rate of free fall) within their own footprints without finding enough structural integrity to veer from the vertical. Where a group of Polish miners can burn down the German capital and start WWII. Where an innocent and unwitting American banker can fund fascist eugenics and genocide and still have his son and grandson grow up to be the Reprehensidents of the USA. It's magic I tell you

If you could convince yourself that Oswald was just a really good shot, magic might find you as well.

[RBHam]

48. Thanks...

Sometimes it's good to elbow the herd in the ribs.

[paula777]

30. Does anyone know for sure that he had changed his mind about

going to this war? His buddies would know this - I wonder if they can talk to his buddies and find out if he thought he had made a mistake. Then I think your right, he would be worth more dead to them. Oh, I forgot though, there are no more investagative reporters.

[RBHam]

33. Do you remember his brother's drunken tirade at his memorial?

After McCain and the other corrupt politicians took their turns exploiting Tillman's death, he roared on stage...

"What's wrong with you people? He's dead! He's F%#*ing dead! He died for nothing!"

His brother had enlisted, too. I wonder where he is now?

[paula777]

36. Woooow - I do not remember that. Well I didn't see his memorial so I

couldn't have but OMFG I didn't even hear about that. Well then, yes, I am going to agree with you on this. They wouldn't want their hero to come out and say this war was for nothing - that would be bad for enlistments (I mean even WORSE for enlistments). Welll obviously they aren't going to admit anything like this - it would have to be found out by someone investigating it - talking to his buddies, etc

[RBHam]

40. Governor Shwarzeneger demands Nat'l Gaurd troops...

Sniff! Sniff!

Do I smell the dirty bomb that will make Arnold a Guilianesque figure???

Bush's polls down, the people hate the Patriot Act, Iraq War is unpopular, DSM minutes won't die, shark stories, Dems are MEAN to Republicans, economy sputtering, officially sanctioned torture, false confessions...

Duck and cover for sure!

[RBHam]

41. If we ignore him...

Maybe uncomfortable facts will go away...

[RBHam]

42. for the night shift

controversy! oooooo!

[brettdale]

45. I think a few emails to CNN

I thinka few emails to CNN is in order.

[babylonsister]

49. This cannot be poiinted out enough. The gov't finally told

Tillman's parents how despicable the powers that be (the blivet, et al.) were.
Another reason we need to lose this admin-who needs any more proof?