The New York Times Nails CLINTON-HATRED

[liberalpragmatist]

Take a look at their book review for "The Survivor," a new book about Clinton's presidency.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/12/books/review/12COVER-EHRENHALT.html?

MILLIONS of Americans despise Bill Clinton. They have done so since he became a presence in national politics in the early 1990's, and they continue to do so today, more than four years after his retirement from public office.

The passion of the Clinton haters is a phenomenon without equal in recent American politics. It is not based on any specific policies that Clinton promoted or implemented during his years in office. It is almost entirely personal. In its persistence and intensity, it goes far beyond anything that comparable numbers of people have felt about Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan or either of the presidents Bush. It surpasses even the liberals' longstanding detestation of Richard Nixon. The only political obsession comparable to it in the past century is the hatred that a significant minority of Americans felt for Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

In this respect the phenomenon is all the more puzzling. Roosevelt made enormous and sometimes reckless changes in the American government and economy, and when his critics loathed him for it, he loathed them back. ''They are unanimous in their hate for me'' he said of them in his 1936 re-election campaign, ''and I welcome their hatred.'' Clinton, on the other hand, was a centrist who undertook no dramatic transformations of society or government and, what was more, showed himself to be an instinctive conciliator who believed in compromise almost to a fault.

Viewed in historical perspective, Clinton-hatred is not easy to explain. Certainly the Monica Lewinsky affair does not explain it. The people who detested the president after that dalliance became public were essentially the same ones who had detested him in 1992. They merely grew louder.

<snip>

If, as Harris believes, Clinton was in the most important ways a competent president -- and certainly not a combative or ideological one -- then the conundrum of Clinton-hatred remains essentially unsolved. Harris does try to explain it. He suggests -- as others have -- that Clinton, not entirely through his own doing, suffered as the embodiment of a generation and a set of values that much of the country had never understood or been willing to accept. He was the tangible symbol of the Baby Boom, its conceits, its self-absorption, its lack of discipline and failures of responsibility. He was a child of the 1960's preaching to millions of people who had never come to terms with the 1960's and didn't want to be reminded of them.

[jmaier]

1. Clinton is the Democrat who stalled (not ended)

the Reagan revolution by having the gall to actually win the Presidency. His very centrism was seen as a threat to keeping those "Reagan Democrats" in the Republican fold. The venom was personal because he was perceived as a personal threat to the divine right of the right to rule. The lingering hatred is a result of the residual emotions from that period coupled with the fact that, impeachment included, he actually had a successful Presidency under the trying conditions of pumped up scandal after scandal and generally a Congressional minority.

[SoCalDem]

11. He was a speedbump in the rightwing takeover.

They actually should be thanking him. Clinton's 8 years allowed the righties a respite to fine tune their evil agenda, and to get the people in place to control the election mechanisms..

They had the spotlight off them for 8 years, and like insects, they do their "best work" in the dark recesses..

Clinton's presidency allowed the public to focus on HIM, and not on their own plans.They also had their right wing spinners on the radio and tv doing their bidding, so that when the time was right (2K0, they could take back power, and complete their "mission"..

Does anyone think that Poppy & pals were sitting in Houston, watching Days of Our Lives??

[FreedomAngel82]

21. Interesting

I've always wondered why so many people hated Clinton. Sure he isn't in the republican party and he isn't a hard core FDR democrat but he did do good for our country especially the economy. It always amazes me how the republicans blame him for everything and even hate his wife. I wonder if they even hate his daughter. Sad, really. I betcha if Clinton had an (r) after his name they wouldn't hate him.

[Cha]

2. New York Times..You should recognize

bush hatred..it's got Clinton's beat.

[DIKB]

4. ???

I think the point being made is that the Clinton hatred is irrational, and inexplicable. You can assume it's b/c he represents an era, but you're still guessing. Whereas hatred of * is not so much personal as it is a response to a horrid failure of a presidency. Dismantling of rights, distortions and lies, warmongering, shady corporation dealings, economic ruin, loss of international respect, etc.

[Douglas Carpenter]

6. Hatred of G.W. Bush is based on policy--Clinton's was not

In spite of Florida- I was prepared to give a Bush a chance as were most Democrats.

After September 11, 2001-Democrats overwhelmingly gave G.W. Bush the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with the one who said "Clinton stalled". He was a centrist who was more than willing to meet the Republicans half-way--even to the dismay of progressives.

Bush is an extremist who has no time to compromise or even listen to those who might get in his way.

Frankly, this is the clear pattern of the current batch of right-wing ideologues. You are either with them or against them--nothing else to talk about. Look how they have treated anyone and everyone who has gotten in their way; John McCain, Joe Wilson, Paul O'Neil and of course John Kerry.

Do not expect any future Democratic president to be treated any nicer than Bill Clinton was--no matter how centrist or conservative they happen to be. And do not be too surprised if the corporate media does their bidding.

Just imagine if Al Gore had been President on September 11, 2001--Would Republican have given him the benefit of the doubt? Or would it have been another chance to destroy someone who got in their way?

I'm not saying this about traditional "old school" Republicans. Let's face it Gerald Ford, Dwight Eisenhower and probably even Richard Nixon would be raving socialist compared to the current gang in power.

[jazzjunkysue]

18. No: I hate B*** personally, almost as much as his greed and

power lust. I hate the way he talks, walks, smirks, raises his daughters, sucks up to rich sucessful people. I hate him. It's personal.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Of course not with Al Gore

They would've blamed it all on him. Of course if Al Gore was in the White House I doubt it would've happened at all. But of course we'll never know that now. I remember being disappointed Gore didn't win because I wasn't old enough to vote yet and I was a big Al Gore supporter. I just adored him and Clinton together. Then I saw F911 and all that happened and Greg Palast's films and I did more research on 9/11 and I just knew Bush and his gang did it. I remember when I first read about PNAC. I was so disgusted. I also am so digusted with how they treat anybody who gets in their way (good example is John McCain in 2000). I bet you McCain would've been their winner if it wasn't for Bush and the smear campaign. Ressenbrener showed that too in Congress.

[Lex]

3. Very interesting read.

I agree on many of the points about Clinton.

My dad (a liberal Dem in his 60's now) is still bewildered by the hate against Pres. Clinton and Senator Clinton. "WHY do people hate them so much?" he's asked me before. "All that hate--are they crazy or something?"

"Yes, Dad, I think they are," is always my reply.

I'll forward the article to him so he can read it.

[Bombero1956]

27. I think

Maybe I'm off base here, but I think Clinton haters want that hate to continue. The hate is like a scab that you pick at until it becomes infected. Sen. Clinton may have presidential aspirations and hating the Big Dog and by extension Hillary makes it allot easier to keep the vemon flowing and thus their base constituency has a focus.

[Zhade]

5. You know, some of us disapprove of some of Clinton's policies.

That doesn't mean we have "no reason", or that we're insane rabid rightwingers.

NAFTA. Welfare "reform". DOMA. Telecommunications Act. Sanctions on and ongoing bombing of Iraq. 1996 Anti-Terrorism laws setting the groundwork for the Patriot Act. Executing a mentally retarded man. Etc.

He did some really great things, and some really terrible things. He's a mixed bag, and the best Republican president we ever had.

I'd take him back in a second, but I'd still try to hold him accountable for the bad he's done, while praising the good.

It's dangerous and myopic to revere any politician so much that you can't see his flaws - or to hate them so much you can't see his good qualities (unless you're b*s*, who has none).

[liberalpragmatist]

7. Well, the article isn't directed at you

The article is directed at the haters on the right - for them the hatred is totally irrational and personal.

[ailsagirl]

10. According to Randi, while Clinton was undergoing impeachment

hearings, his popularity rating was a whopping 68%

She said it more than once so I certainly didn't mis-hear her.

Pretty amazing.

Why do they hate Clinton? Because he's a Dem and he SUCCEEDED, that's why. Our country was doing pretty darn good with him at the helm and Gore in tow.

Things certainly have changed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Randi's right

I remember another poll at that time that said less than 25% of the American public was even watching the Monicagate hearings.

[ailsagirl]

19. I remember how utterly appalled I was over the news stories...

and I didn't even seek them out. The sordid details, smutty commentary... it was revolting.

Now it makes perfect sense, of course-- the MSM/rethugs were behind it.

:puke: :puke:

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Yep

I remember late last year Bob Novak had his retirement special on MSNBC on all he's seen in his years of journalisim. He showed himself interviewing Bush and he told Bush that Clinton had an approval raiting of 60% and asked him what he thought of it. Bush's reply: shrug of the shoulders and he said "so what? I'm president now."

[Viva_La_Revolution]

12. get outta my head!

lol!

I just found out last week about the constant bombing of Iraq during Clinton's presidency, and it came as a bit of a blow. Sometimes knowledge is so depressing.

[Douglas Carpenter]

13. On those policies--many Democrats including myself agree with you

Clinton's "Welfare Reform" was more draconian than anything Nixon would have ever dreamed of proposing.

NAFTA--well what can I say. Bill Clinton has the basic Joe Lieberman/DCL line

The Telecommunications Act is one of the major reason for the Orwellian media we are facing today

The Family Protection act could have written by James Dobson.

The point is, going half-way with the current brand of Republicans is not going to make them hate any less. Perhaps it even inflames their rage.

[bpilgrim]

8. Clinton-hatred is easy to explain - RW Talk Radio + GLOBALIZATION

many americans then & today worry about their economic prospects which appear to be increasingly outsourced and the wingers take-advantage of a certain group that feels threatened and are looking for targets.

they are exploiting their hatred to TEAR DOWN our existing GOV&LAWS and REPLACE THEM with a FASCIST ONE.

I'm sure the enabling act - aka: PA II - will pass to thunderous applause.

peace

[zalinda]

14. It was RW talk radio

and the reason he was so hated is because that's when talk radio really got it's legs. Think of all the right wingers who got their popularity from hatred. I think that is is a small percentage of people who hate/hated Clinton, but they were/are rabid, and vocal.

zalinda

[Viva_La_Revolution]

9. John Harris, author of "The Survivor CSPAN2 5pm ET

· John Harris, author of "The Survivor: Bill Clinton in the White House"
5pm ET

part of the 2005 Printers Row Book Fair
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3831204&mesg_id=3831230

[Gloria]

15. Clinton came to office as the RW media machine was really revving up

and talk radio shifted to non-stop hate. Without a Dem in office, they simply continue by villifying the Left and anybody else who doesn't go along with them. If a Dem gets back into the WH, they will transfer their vitriole in a personal way to that person. During the 2000 and 2004 campaigns they got into practice by trashing Gore and Kerry.

It goes beyond Clinton. It is the way the operate in general. They pick on anyone that's a threat, such as Wesley Clark, Howard Dean, etc.

[mopinko]

16. warriors hate peaceniks

imho, this is an genetically ingrained suspicion, going back to when we were monkeys, and first learned to make war. the trouble with the guy who doesn't want to go to war with the other guys is that they stay home with the wives and daughters of those who do go. cuckholdry is THE danger for males in investing their energies in a family, instead of broadcasting their seed.
goes very, very deep.

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. Harris is on C-SPAN right now. C-SPAN 2. n/t

[Poiuyt]

22. I hate Bush more that any Republican hates Clinton

[Warren DeMontague]

23. It was limp-dick freeper style rage, pure and simple.

And I love how "60s values" are always cast as things like 'self-absorption, lack of discipline and failure of responsibility'

What the hell was self-absorbed about ending civil rights?
How was working (sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing) to build organic commuinities based on cooperation as opposed to competition a 'lack of discipline'?
And how was ending the Vietnam War a "failure of responsibility"?

Those values were embodied by segments of society in those days- but they were the mainstream culture's values, NOT the counter-culture's.

[Stirk]

26. It's incredibly easy to explain, actually.

Clinton happened to be President when the neoconservatives were getting ready to stage their coup. They largely accomplished their goal with propaganda; everything from right-wing talk radio to garbage books put out by "publishing houses" that were basically just political operations for the GOP and their chosen corporate factions.

If Carter had been president while the neoconservative/corporatist coup was ready to bloom, then *he'd* be the most despised president ever. If Jesus Christ had been president at the time, he'd be the most despised.