O.K. can someone explain calmly why they think this memo....

[vi5]

...is going to be succesful at bringing Bush down any more than similar testimony under oath by Clarke and O'Neil, as well as what was written in that asskiss of a book by Woodward? I'm not trying to be a jerk but after weeks of reading about this thing, I just don't see why people think that a memo from someone connected to the British government about this is going to carry any more weight to it then all the other evidence that we've had pertaining to the same thing was met with the sounds of crickets. Yes the memo says something that we all on here know to be true (that the game regarding Iraq was being fixed from the get-go) and I know it pisses each and every one of us off. But what makes people think that this memo or media saturation of it will convince people who previously didn't believe this to be true, that it was. I think at this point only the 30-40% of the people who approve of Bush's handling of the war think that they weren't fixing the evidence before hand, and of that 30-40% I would bet that almost all of them don't even care if it WAS fixed beforehand.

I'm not saying that this knowledge doesn't depress me but for all the talk about this thing I'm not sure how we feel that this is going to succeed where so much has failed. Even if the media does start reporting on it.

[BigBearJohn]

1. Probably because there is something tangible attached to it

from a foreign government who nobody has denied the validity of.

[Mike Nelson]

2. Hmm...

I agree )I think(. Everybody in the media already knows about Bush. The Bush media hides it & the others have decided to be afraid for their lives and jobs.

[Goldeneye]

3. I was hoping something would happen with Blair, and

maybe, the media here would have to report what happened. I think it also helps that new stuff keeps coming out of Britain to corroborate the DSM. I'm not sure what'll happen, but its nice to think about BushCo being brought down.

[wtmusic]

4. It isn't

but the timing is much better. Since the war is going so poorly people are more open to it.

If it reaches critical mass we may get an investigation out of it. That's going to take a lot of work. If we get an investigation, we may get a motion to impeach. That's going to take even more work.

[WePurrsevere]

5. IMO...

maybe it's partly hope... hope that this will be the proverbial "last straw".

Do I think anything will come of it? Although I like to *hope* so... for Bush probably not unless enough folks get peeved and the Repubicans in office who are up for re-election do nothing or keep trying to sweep it under the carpet, then maybe folks will wake up a bit, vote them out and the tide will turn towards the Dems being the majority and a chance that Bush and co will be investigated and maybe even impeached... but it will take a lot of work by folks to keep it out there.

[vi5]

7. I'm the same way about it...

God, I'd like nothing more than for it to be the thing that does the trick. I'm just a hopeless realist and I learn from history so I don't wan to get my hopes up.

[pinto]

6. I don't think the minutes will bring down Bush, but they may well bring

about change in the Congress, the publics perception of the Administration and it's coat tails come '06, and some of the MSM's blatant acquiescence to the RW propaganda. All those results are big pluses for the country. (Think ripple effect)...

Even though the possibility of an extremist Republican House filing papers of impeachment against the President are few and none, "memo gate", as it seems to be dubbed, has good legs.

[firefox]

13. yes

And besides that, if you determine that Bu$h has committed impeachable acts and worthy of a trial in the Senate, then how can you not say so?

It is one thing to be Chicken Little and say the sky is falling when it is not and it is another thing to say the sky is falling when it is. Then it is something else for the sky to be falling and not tell anyone when we are all in peril.

The impeachment question needs an intellectual determination. Most people just have not even thought about it. I have and I am uspet that the representatives in Congress ignore all reality and the call for impeachment.

[berni_mccoy]

8. They dismissed the others

By saying they really didn't have direct access to the plans and that these people really had no idea what was going on (which was another lie). They can't say that here. The highest ranking officials in the British gov't wouldn't make this shit up and then type it in a memo for no reason. They did it because they needed to be absolutely certain about the information. That's why they can not challenge the authenticity or validity of this document (or the others that are being leaked). Somebody in the British gov't is just handing this stuff out because they are pissed at Blair and/or Bush.

The house of cards is coming down BABY!

[zanne]

9. The memo is PROOF

Before the elections, the Bushies could shut us up with phrases like: "Are you saying the president LIED"? Now , we can say "Yes, that's exactly what we're saying and here's the proof"!

[linazelle]

10. It's not a memo, it's MINUTES...a matter of record. n/t

[necso]

11. I have no idea how these minutes

might (directly) bring * down. The major parties involved can never admit that they went to war on phony (and invented) pretenses. This would be the admission of high crimes and quite possibly of treason (by definition and in practise, if not by law).

However, if the minutes are accurate (I have been looking for links to public statements by Blair and Rycroft to that effect), then at the very least there was some serious miscommunication going on -- and the American people have a right to know who (that the Brits met with here) is responsible on this end for that miscommunication. (Various named individuals at NSC, OSP, State, Defense, etc.)

"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."

These minutes might also be part of the ammunition to bring Blair down and to bring in new Labour leaders. And these new leaders might prove a little more helpful in going after our own governing criminals. (Although I have my doubts; too many people have been tarnished by this criminal fiasco.)

[msmcghee]

12. It seems to me, for the pukes to keep control of the government . .

. . everything * does must be seen as a blessing of (neo)conservatism upon this "Godly" nation. I can't see why any but a small minority of safe pukes would ever jeopardize their hold on power by voting to impeach him - which would be the same as admitting that their worldview is a greed-based fraud upon the world.

Only the American people can impeach him (and them). Before 2000 I would have thought that Americans had some level of intolerance for presidents lying about important things to the American people.

From what I've see since then - I have little hope. Listening to the news I usually feel like an alien in this country almost all the time - except maybe when I'm logged into DU.

[brindis_desala]

14. if nothing else it has alerted a large cross-section of

grassroots Democrats that there are pols like Conyers willing to lead the charge. The minutes by themselves can only help kick the real story which is war profiteering and corruption on a breath-taking scale.
This fight is not for wimps or for those who think the dragon can be slain with a single magic bullet. Do the research the facts are there to be exposed.

[truth2power]

15. "Alien" is the word. That's how I feel all the time. n/t

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

16. The most obvious reason that this is bigger is because it is

a MULTI-NATIONAL issue. The Brits are pretty incensed and outraged about this memo too, and unlike us they don't have a self-serving, boot-licking press and they don't have any problem with "collegiality" hampering full-throated debate about the facts.

So far, the Republicans have laughably resorted to questioning the "authenticity" of the memo/minutes when absolutely no one, including Tony Blair has ever attempted to question their genuineness. US Repubs think - hey it worked in the the Rather case, maybe it will work again this time. Bush himself questioned their authenticity in their joint press conference while Blair squirmed next to him, because they had been released during "an election". He tried to divert attention because it worked before. But as he himself has said, "fool me once, shame on - you. Fool me . . . you can't get fooled again"

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. Frankly, I doubt that Bush & Cheney will actually be impeached.. However..

Given the reality of the Republican control of Congress--it is possible. But I think unlikely.

However, at the very least..the American people might finally get more of the truth. And this might be able to halt the rightwing onslought...

[Just Me]

18. They are being attacked from the inside and the outside.

And they know it!!!!

The "masters" are being surrounded!!! *LOL*

I hope the bastards have a heart attack! }(

[The2ndWheel]

19. I agree

This whole gang has been around for decades. They've lied before. They've sent people to kill and die before. It's many from the same group that pulled off Iran/Contra. They've been making money off war and weapons for who knows how long. They've made more than their fair share of deals with tyrants, and continue to do so. They've been writing policy papers for years. They're all involved with the think tanks surrounding Washington. They go from business to government, and from government to business every now and then.

I'm like you, I'm not sure how this one will be the one that takes down the empire. First it was Plame. Then it was Abu Graib. Then it was Bush and Cheney in their secret hearing with the 9/11 Commission. Then it's no WMD. hen it's Halliburton disapearing billions of dollars. Then it's Gannon. Then it's Florida/Ohio and the vote. Then the Patriot Act. REAL ID. Everything that they've done in Congress, especially in the last few months. Then it's this and then it's that.

And yet they're still there, doing exactly the same things that we know they're doing. We're left writing angry letters, and calling the small number of Congresspeople that even have a shred of dignity left. Doesn't seem to work. They still end up making a compromise that does nothing to help.

Sometimes I wonder if civilization is worth the trouble. We waste our lives fighting the same battles over and over again, only to see them fought over and over again in the future. How is that not insane?

Where are we going with all these fights anyway? Power doesn't go away because a few laws are passed, it just changes form. But now I'm off on a different topic.