From now on, all Republicans and Taser Advocates shall be known as...

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

StupidMotherfuckers,


Thst is all

[jody]

1. Why do you lump Republicans and Taser Advocates? Do you prefer

that police use handguns rather than Tasers?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

2. No.... The punitive concept that has usurpt ameican justice and kool aid

drinkers and death sentence junkies has gotten me a wee bit hypersensitive at the moment.

[jody]

8. I understand but I don't understand why you lump the two groups

together. Is it not possible for Yellow Dog Democrats to support law enforcement officers using tasers?

Remember that SCOTUS has ruled that governments are not obligated to protect an individual unless they are in custody. Fundamentally, self-defense is a personal choice.

What do you want officers to use against a criminal if you are a victim?

[liberalnurse]

16. Beautifully said.....

:yourock: :woohoo:

[leesa]

65. You LOVE tasering people, don't you? Wierd.

As a nurse, I would think you would understand the danger of shooting someone up with 50,000 volts. Why not use pepper spray? Why can't multiple cops contorl a single perpetrator?

[liberalnurse]

69. As a nurse, I understand how the Taser intervention

has reduced injury to Officers, suspects and by-standers ten-fold. My support of the Taser has nothing to do with what you so cheaply suggest, that I like to Taser people. That is grossly careless. Shame on you.

My support of the Taser is from daily, first hand knowledge of it's value. When you can walk in my shoes....I might pay attention but until then, since you choose to make unvalidated judgments from the keyboard, we can all discount you rhetoric.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

48. Common sense.

[AX10]

82. Then how do you explain officers who used the taser...

on a 13 year old handcuffed and anklecuffed in the back of a caged police car? I don't want to hear that she had a big mouth!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. Jody, fer' crissake...

Get over your weapons fetish. The sad fact is that the taser is being used as a punishment tool by police all over this nation. Police are not supposed to be in the punishment business, just enforcement and apprehension.

[jody]

10. What source do you have for "taser is being used as a punishment tool"?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

13. Jeeeeeeesus, you are thick.

Subjecting people to 50,000 volts DC, on a thin whim and a thin sense of threat, is PUNISHMENT.

Why are you on this forum?

[jody]

14. I understand that abuses have occurred but please give me a source

for abuses other than a few incidents that would justify banning tasers as you imply.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

17. The number of deaths from this "non-lethal weapon"...

Are staggering. The stories are out there and not coyly hidden.

Don't play this "supply a link" crap with me.

[jody]

18. I must conclude that the number of deaths is not staggering based

on your reply and failure to cite statistics. Please obtain facts to support your assertion if you wish to continue our exchange and not appear childish.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

19. Here you go.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Taser%2Bdeath&btnG=Google+Search

Live it up.

Do you ever post in other forums than the gun fetishest forums? How did you vote in the last election cycle? Inquiring minds want to know.

[jody]

43. You give a google search which repeat various articles on the same

incidents.

Please give a source that lists the number of deaths from tasers that supports your assertion they are staggering.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

53. here's one

[jody]

56. See reply #50. Amnesty says tasers could have been involved in 14 deaths.

[liberalnurse]

31. Damn...your good!

Go, Jody Go! :woohoo:

[cestpaspossible]

99. It must be comforting to the families of the innocent dead

to know that the number of deaths is not staggering.

[Berserker]

27. Does this sound familiar?

I understand that abuses have occurred but please give me a source
for abuses other than a few incidents that would justify banning Abu Ghraib as you imply.

[liberalnurse]

32. That has nothing to do with the price of eggs either.

:hide:

[jody]

44. I said nothing about Abu Ghraib. I hope Tandalayo_Scheisskopf

can reply for himself to the exchange we have going.

[AX10]

84. I agree. The taser gun is a useful tool when used...

in places where a REAL threat exists. It is unjustified to use the taser on little kids, people are a making alot of "noise", and those who don't comply with an officers orders as fast as the officer would like.
example: If a noise complaint is made against me, the officer comes. If
I ask who made the complaint, turn down the noise (if there actually is noise), and the cop still does not leave, and I ask him to leave...the officer can say that I was not cooperating and taser me?!? :wtf:?

In this case, force in NOT WARRENTED!

[BiggJawn]

45. Uh, do they still carry pepper spray?

Or do these big ripped macho men only have it to "spice up" their lunch with? "Yeah, Dood! Wendy's chili fuckin' RAWKS with a little OC innit!"

What a world you live it. Tasers or Deadly Force. (like there's a difference?)
That's our ONLY 2 choices?

Sounds perfectly totalitarian to me.

[leesa]

67. Absolutely. A taser is deadly force and they are very careless and casual

about using it. Why supposed progressives would support this is way beyond me.

[liberalnurse]

70. No, it's just in the catagory of

"Use of Force"...just like the baton, physical restraint etc....

Using the 9mm is "Deadly Force"....

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalnurse]

95. BigJaw.....

Your comments are inappropriate and completely false. You are making this up as you go along and then post it like Cable News Alerts or some tabloid.

You don't know me at all.

[BiggJawn]

97. I'm sorry...

Didn't you tell me once that you work in a prison infirmary and if it wasn't for the Taser then the inmates would be running the place?

That wasn't you? Was it somebody else?

I don't drink or do Recreationals, so I don't think the booze told me that.

OK, well, sorry. Must have been somebody else then.

The part about it going to take someone near to you getting killed by one of these damn things is still valid, and thus I let it stand. Hope you open your eyes BEFORE that happens.

[liberalnurse]

102. No, that is not what I told

you in a private PM. I Never said any of what is in this statement you just posted...

snip>... from your post.....

" Didn't you tell me once that you work in a prison infirmary and if it wasn't for the Taser then the inmates would be running the place?"
...


Again...no I did not! Your intent is malicious.

This reminds me of Linbaugh or Fox News!

So,.....

Your fictitious imagination is slanderous/libel intent. Shall I prosecute?

Point of interest:


Can I sue someone who says or writes something defamatory about me?


In order to prove defamation, you have to be able to prove that what was said or written about you was false. If the information is true, or if you consented to publication of the material, you will not have a case. However, you may bring an defamatory action if the comments are so reprehensible and false that they effect your reputation in the community or cast aspersions on you.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BiggJawn]

146. I got news for you, Nurse....

"...you may bring an defamatory action if the comments are so reprehensible and false that they effect your reputation in the community or cast aspersions on you."

If that's the case, I suggest you sue yourself FIRST.

You maniacal love of the Taser, as expressed ad nauseum in these threads has affected your own reputation. Nothing I or anyone else can write can do it any better.

[Solon]

150. Bzzzz....Wrong...

Use of Force means using appropriate force to defend yourself. A cop has every right to shoot a guy that is swinging a bat at his head, that guy is using deadly force. A baton or bat hitting the head will kill people quite easily, however, using the same baton or bat aimed at a leg or arm will most likely NOT kill so that is not deadly force. Of course, cops are taught to use best judgment, and many of them apparently lack common sense. I would say any device that fires projectiles into the trunk of the body and then proceeds to shock them through electricity qualifies as a deadly weapon.

[leesa]

64. They don't kill as many people with handguns

[SouthernDem2004]

86. Actually, alot more are killed with handguns. 316 in 2003. /nt

[Hubert Flottz]

3. That's what I've called them all along!

:kick: them out of Washington!

[converted_democrat]

4. I agree we got alone fine without tasers, we don't need them.

Electro shock is preferred by oppressive regimes because it leaves few marks. Also, if kills you they can blame it on a heart problem.

[MisterP]

6. Myanmar loved to use them on dissident Buddhist monks

[Walt Starr]

21. Yep, lets get back to them good ole days!

When cops busted your skull with a club or gave you chemical burns with pepper spray. Or hell, pull the service revolver and blow your ass away!

Booyah.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalnurse]

34. Oh, you are just a little bit

of a crybaby tonight. Can't take the issue on nor express your view with dignity so the alternative is to attack someone who can. What a light weight.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

37. Oky, you yoo.

[liberalnurse]

38. Did I just hear something go....

Snap, Crackle, Pop?

[liberalnurse]

33. Now your talken.....

So soon they forget.....Plus, the Taser has reduced career busting injuries to our Officers. They can't work less than 100%....no light duty over 3 months in most municiple systems for Officers. People forget that Officers are just that, people.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[converted_democrat]

49. Booyah to you too buddy.....

I don't agree with you. Period. I don't know where your from, but cops around here NEVER cracked heads or blew people away, for no reason, but they do use tasers like a toy. Have you been paying attention to the small infractions that they are now saying justifies a tasering? Give me a break. If a cop can't subdue an average size person on their own, than they shouldn't be a cop.

[Walt Starr]

98. You've never been to Chicago

where a woman was blown away for having a deadly cell phone.

[tx_dem41]

68. Exactly....it appears many DUers are pinin' for the good ol' days....

...and missing a good opportunity to effect the training of their civil servants. Oh well, it's easier to rant and call people names.

[hlthe2b]

7. Lower voltage Tasers were originally marketed to the public as

a nonlethal form of self defense.

As one who purchased for that very purpose about 7 years ago (and managed to NEVER use it, though I carry it often), I would humbly point out that removal of this tool will not cure the problem. We have an enlarging segment of law enforcement that (not unlike many REPUGs) wants badly to enforce their "power" upon others.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. Than ks

but no one will ever come to that defenve.

[hlthe2b]

11. I don't follow....?

[AX10]

78. Bingo. The taser itself is not a bad tool.

But cops need to have strict rules when it comes to using force.

[Just Me]

12. noise, clutter, garbage, distraction

yes?

[liberalnurse]

15. I think the Taser is a marvelous tool for law enforcement.

I'm definitely a devoted Democrat. That said, folks who prefer to resort to name calling of those who disagree with their view because they can't successfully debate an issue, well they are simply impotent.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

24. Your would have been yelling Huzzahs at someone being drawn

and quartered.

[liberalnurse]

35. No, I just say....

"Hey guys, it's time for some lighting"....

[AX10]

77. If the person is not being combative, but defensive, the officers...

should not use the stun gun. There is a case in Chicago in which the officers tried to get a pregant bride out the closet. She did nothing that warrented being tasered, no less on the stomach (womb).

[AX10]

101. "Hey guys, it's time for some lighting"....

is that a cute way saying let's shock someone. It isn't funny. The officer that tasered the 73 year old woman should be fired. he's no enforcer of the law, but a left over from the GITMO guard.

:eyes:

[liberalnurse]

105. You apparently lack a sense of humor and .

can't seem to recognize scarcasm......:sarcasm:

[Beware the Beast Man]

109. I don't care if this was a joke or not.

That's just sick. :thumbsdown:

[liberalnurse]

110. Get a grip....

Stop being so hateful!!!!!!!!!STOP IT! STOP IT!

[Beware the Beast Man]

116. Ummm...okay...

I'll just step away slowly...:eyes:

[Bouncy Ball]

122. LOL

That actually made me laugh out loud. Which is rare. Thanks!

[Berserker]

28. I agree that Tasers are a chicken shit

way of law enforcement. (Now used on children) You call that law enforcement?

[Auntie Bush]

57. I wonder why they didn't use one on that little 5 year old to get her off

off the table. They sure missed a good opportunity!

[Tsiyu]

54. Didn't you just call someone a crybaby?

More selective on calling out name-callers than in the use of tasers, but at least you're selective about SOMETHING!

[liberalnurse]

72. Ask Walt Starr what I was replying to in his defense.....

Go ahead, ask him....I'll not support hateful threats and cursing by anyone to Walt, myself or any other beloved DU'er. I was definitely kind in my expression. So, next time...get the whole story.

[Tsiyu]

120. You still called someone a name

regardless of why, you called a name rather than discuss the issue.

[wtmusic]

63. lol agree liberalnurse

And here's a statistic: a far greater number of those subdued with tasers have died than those subdued with handguns

[liberalnurse]

75. That is not a statistic.......

Just a whimsical phrase.

[wtmusic]

76. I stand corrected

but a truthful whimsical phrase, nonetheless.

[Bouncy Ball]

121. I remember a while back you argued the mentally ill on death row

deserve to be killed. And aren't you a psychiatric nurse? The fact that a psychiatric nurse would say that gave me chills, I remember vividly.

[OrlandoGator]

20. What does one have to do with the other?

I'm all for any tool that helps law enforcement do their job with less lethality. If the tool is abused, investigate thoroughly and punish severely.

I work with police officers every day. They are trained to use the same degree of discretion with the Taser as they do with their pistol. Whether or not they adhere to their training is a different matter, but again you can't take a valuable tool away from everyone because a few people are abusing it.

I'm about as loyal a Democrat as you'll ever find. And I also can say that getting hit with a 50,000-volt Taser isn't that big a deal.

[liberalnurse]

36. Precisely.....

Just a big ass Charlie Horse.

[Horse with no Name]

46. Maybe if you are lucky

they can use them in the hospital for non-compliant patients. I'm sure by your postings you would prefer pediatric patients.
The TASER people should pay you. You never miss an opportunity to tout the "wonderous awe" of them.

[Tsiyu]

52. No shit

liberalnurse and i got into it over the tasering of a 73-year-old trying to visit a friend in a nursing home. She was ALL FOR IT!

She lost all credibility with me that day on the Tasering issue. If she can justify tasering an elderly woman, I really don't know what else to say.......

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

73. Me too!

[AX10]

87. Same here. I agree with your post 110%.

[shanti]

132. exactly

that's why i have had liberalnurse on ignore since that time. there's no use debating with someone who clearly has their mind made up to support a goddam WEAPON.

[liberalnurse]

103. You just make shit up as you go along too.

Your fictitious imagination is slanderous/libel intent. Shall I prosecute?

Point of interest:


Can I sue someone who says or writes something defamatory about me?


In order to prove defamation, you have to be able to prove that what was said or written about you was false. If the information is true, or if you consented to publication of the material, you will not have a case. However, you may bring an defamatory action if the comments are so reprehensible and false that they effect your reputation in the community or cast aspersions on you.

[Horse with no Name]

144. I haven't made anything up--you are a Pro-Taser advocate

All anyone has to do is search your postings to find out that you are a cheerleader for the TASER--whether it is against kids or the elderly.
It is archived.
Can't sue me when I have the facts on my side...but go ahead and act all offended now.:eyes:

[Richard Steele]

149. Too late, Nameless Equine! It already happened, and LiberalNurse CHEERED!

*snip*
LANDO - A police officer twice used a Taser stun device on a drug suspect who was restrained to a hospital bed because the man refused to give a urine sample to medical staff, authorities said.
*endsnip*
LINK: http://www.november.org/stayinfo/breaking3/Tasered.html

This was reported here at DU, and LiberalNurse defended the officer involved like the old-reliable 'Broken Record' we've all come to know and love.
It seems that there is no situation EXTREME enough to make LiberalNurse EVER say that a taser was used improperly.

Her unwavering support of the TASER use gets many LIBERALS angry.

Indeed, some folks who don't read the DU posting rules get their posts removed
because they accuse her of being a "Freeper Troll",
or even a:
"Lying, Fascist, 'Bush-supporting' & 'Police-State-Loving' SACK OF RANCID MONKEYSHIT"!

Seriously, man, you wouldn't believe some of the things that these registered Dems say about her!

[noiretextatique]

39. i googled "taser deaths"

Results 101 - 110 of about 65,700 for taser deaths
i found this excerpt from an Amnesty International report interesting:

Benjamin Jealous, Director of AIUSA's Domestic Human Rights Program, said, "The rhetoric used to sell TASERs does not match the reality of how the weapons are being used in the field. The public is being told that TASERs will be used as a safe, non-lethal alternative to guns. But in reality, they are being used in situations where police would never use lethal force, such as on a handcuffed nine-year-old girl in Arizona, a six-year-old mentally disturbed boy in Florida, and a 71-year-old woman in Oregon who is blind in one eye. Another alarming reality is that in many of these cases, the shootings are determined to be justified because they are within the scope of departmental policies—policies that gave police officers permission to shoot a six-year-old with 50,000 volts of electricity."
http://www.mediaisland.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=337

[Tomee450]

40. It just boggles the mind that

anyone would taser a six year old child or a seventy-one old adult. That is just plain sick.

[noiretextatique]

41. perhaps they didn't comply with a verbal command

fast enough :sarcasm: but that 9 year old handcuffed girl probably deserved it :sarcasm:

[jody]

50. The Amnesty report says tasers played a role in 14 deaths.

TASERS: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL BRIEFING, 20 May 2005
QUOTE
Amnesty has studied Taser use in the USA, where the devices are widely used. The organisation found:
Deaths: Over 100 people have died after being ‘Tasered’ in the USA. In at least 14 cases coroners have stated that the Taser played a role in the death.
UNQUOTE

The report does not say "caused 14 deaths" nor does it say "caused 100 deaths".

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

58. dead link

[jody]

60. The link works for me. n/t

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

61. must be firefox,,,,

[SouthernDem2004]

88. I google "toast deaths":

and got 220,000 results! http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=toast+deaths&btnG=Google+Search

Oh the horror! We now know toast is killing our citizens!

Ok, sorry for the sarcasm. I just do not like when people cite google searches of evidence of anything. Oh, there really are 220,000 hits for toast deaths. Whew google needs some refinement.


Peace

[noiretextatique]

142. when toast is used by police

perhaps your argument will be relevant. my response was to the person who insists that tasers are never lethal.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

85. What the pro-taser folks have failed to acknowledge is that

the videos clearly reflect that there is pain and danger associated with the discharge of the taser.

Go back and watch the Goodwin video. Did either cop reach down and try to remove the barbs or try to handcuff her while the current was flowing?

If not, why not? Did they know that they would run the risk of shock?

Goodwin was shocked twice, once because she did not jump as quickly and as high as the officer wanted her to jump and the second time, because she wouldn't put her hands behind her back. Listen to the radio communications after she was secured in the car, the cop clearly tells his supervisor why he tasered her the second time. He also lies about her fighting, since she was charged with NON-VIOLENT resisting arrest. I guess the second cop wouldn't lie for him. :shrug:

Why don't the cops touch taser victims while they are experiencing the shock? They claim to know how it feels and that it is not as bad as the victim is experiencing?

Tasers should not be given to patrol officers. THEY SHOULD BE PROPERLY TRAINED. Don't substitute a weapon for training. That is lazy and unprofessional. Spend the money that is wasted on tasers in providing cops the proper training.

:rant:

[AX10]

89. merh, right on!! It is lazy and unprofessional.

Officer Richard McNevin needs to be FIRED without any compensation, NOW!

What did McNevin say on the radio?

[merh]

94. Go back and listen to part 4 of that video

He tells his supervisor that he tased her the second time because she wouldn't put her hands behind her back. Not that she was withering in pain, that that she tried to attack him, that she wouldn't put her arms behind her back.

The supervisor paused, then he responded.

McNevin also says she was being melodramatic and that she was bleeding, but it would only require a band aid.

Again, I must ask, why don't the cops touch their victims why they are being shocked? They go out of their way to avoid contact with them. Why is that if the shock really doesn't hurt?

[merh]

100. Here is the link to the thread with the video links.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3795253

[Bouncy Ball]

123. Excellent post, merh.

:thumbsup:

Tasers are FAR too convenient and open to abuse, as we've seen. Scary stuff.

[merh]

127. I think walking a mile in the moccasins of another needs to

be a part of every police officer's and corrections officer's training.

[BiggJawn]

93. Oh, gee ANOTHER one!

I thought one "Hey, it's no big deal, I paid for college letting cops tase me at the academy" Fry-Brain was enough around here....

[AX10]

81. But when a subject is on the ground after being hit with the taser once...

the officer(s) should put the cuffs on them and no taser them again. In Phoenix and Denver, they have strict rules that say an officer "cannot use the taser for coercion, intimidation, or as a response to verbal abuse". Officers are using the taser in places where FORCE WAS NEVER USED BEFORE. It is being abused as a WHIP against anyone who does not jump as high and fast as an officer commands. A person with a "big mouth" does not deserve to be tasered or assaulted just for having a big mouth!!! :wtf:? I remember the old "Cops" shows, once someone was in handcuffs, the officers never used force against them for speaking out. If someone was being uncooperative, but not violent, they were not exposed to physical force. The taser gun is a valuable tool if used properly. Sadly, many cities have no rules as to when an officer may consider the use of the weapon.

By the way, I'm sure that being hit multiple times by a taser is VERY PAINFUL. I'm also sure it hurts when you hit the ground.

The taser must be an alternative to lethal force, but not a tool that is used a whip against society.

[KG]

23. Tom Yossarian Joad

knows what time it is. :headbang:

[Tsiyu]

25. Shiny thing! Shiny thing!

Awww just razzin' you. :hi:

But I agree, the abuse of Tasers is a frightening trend, and those who justify that abuse often deserve the unflattering names you have bestowed on them.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

26. Shhhhh...... Don't let them know in the Gungeon....

they'll kill u!!!!

[Tsiyu]

30. But I'm one a them there gun owners

And I'm a badass.

Let em come on and try...I can disable the mothers with words, not Tasers...bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *cough* ha

[MS68]

29. Back atcha.....

[Pastiche423]

42. Hear hear!

[Q]

51. It's amazing....

...how fast a society devolves into brutality when fascists are in control of a country.

[Mairead]

59. Yes, and as Terry Pratchett put it in one of his wonderful books

"There's always someone willing to be a guard" and break heads for the rulers. They get a nifty uniform and an official licence to act out violently whenever they can find or manufacture an excuse.

There's no way to filter them out at the urethra, at present, but we'd better find a way to filter them out at the hiring interview.

[meow2u3]

62. ZAP-happy thugs!

That's what Repunk taser lovers are--zap-happy!

[tx_dem41]

66. Nice to see the Robespierres among us are....

grinding out their own sad version of the "Reign of Terror". :eyes:

[Don Claybrook]

79. Good god, man.

I'm starting to see that you have a Robespierre theory for everything, a fetish almost.

I'm confident you'll find more parallels with other historic figures beginning in the fall semester.

[tx_dem41]

80. LOL....

That was actually my first one. You caught me.

The infighting on this board is getting ridiculous. A successful revolution can never ever occur from such an environment. I'm just trying to possibly sway a few minds.

BTW: 42yrs old. Graduated 20 years ago.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

108. Wow!

Spot on!

[converted_democrat]

129. Rock on!

[jody]

71. Potomac Institute issues report favorable to tasers.

The Potomac Institute, a right-wing group, released its report EFFICACY AND SAFETY OF ELECTRICAL STUN DEVICES on 29 March 05 as a rebuttal to the Amnesty report.

It will be interesting to see how the two groups and law enforcement agencies respond to the issues raised by both organizations.

QUOTE
In summary of the cases cited to date, if we consider the incidents in which stun technology contributed (singularly or in combination) to death, the range is from 1 to 72 mortalities. If we also accept that the applications of stun devices (for demonstration, or for effect) range from 60,00020 to 100,000, the probability of death being associated with stun application ranges from 1 (specific death) in 100,000 (custodial + demonstration uses); to a maximum of 72 (temporally-associated deaths) in 60,000 (custodial uses21). This means that a safety factor for stun application is on the order of 0.999 to 0.99999. Stated another way, the probability of death after stun device administration to the body is from one in a thousand to one in one hundred thousand. Looked at from a different probability perspective, the likelihood of death due specifically to air bag deployment in modern automobiles is such that for every 50 individuals saved, one is killed.22 One stun device manufacturer claims that stun devices have saved some 7,000 lives. If true, the most conservative saved/killed ratio for stun devices is 70:1. Based on the data cited above, this number is more likely 700:1 or greater.
UNQUOTE

[Ms. Clio]

74. Thanks so much for the right wing source

Funny how I don't think I've ever seen you before in GD.

[jody]

106. So what? n/t

[Ms. Clio]

111. By their sources ye shall know them n/t

[jody]

114. What do you mean? n/t

[AX10]

83. You are not convincing me with a right wing source.

I have as much faith in the Potomac Institute as I do Drudge (NONE).

:eyes:

[jody]

107. I did not try to convince you of anything. I merely presented another

view of taser value to law enforcement.

Right wing sources can make statements that are correct if backed up with solid facts. Left wing sources can make statements that are wrong if not backed up by facts. To hold otherwise IMO is foolish.

[Freddie Stubbs]

90. Those who oppose all use of tasers see the world only in black and white

rather than shades of gray. Of course there are problems with tasers, but they are a useful tool in law enforcement if used properly. It is just as childish to advocate banning the use of tasers by police because there have been some problems as it is to ban the use of guns by police because there have been some problems.

It is evident that those who take such a simplistic viewpoint cannot back up their arguments, so they simply stoop to name calling.

[AX10]

92. I agree that is can be a valuable tool if used right.

However, the taser is being used in cases where no force would have been used in the past. It's being used to get a pregant bride out of a closet. Her only offense is that she yelled at a police officer to stop tasering her father. That is an abuse.

[Freddie Stubbs]

96. Some police depatrments are going to need to adopt more stringent

procedures for the use of tasers.

[AX10]

104. Many departments are going to have to do so.

[Pithlet]

115. If used properly

But they aren't. Tasers should only be used in an instance where a gun would be pulled and possibly used. It should be a replacement for shooting someone. But, it is clear that they're being abused. Cops are being told that these are harmless and non-lethal, and are using them to coerce, threaten and punish.

If tasers were only ever used in that instance, then I wouldn't be as avidly opposed to them as I am. Tasering a woman writhing on the ground because she won't put her hands behind her back, tasering a kid on a school bus, the elderly, and pregnant women, and in some instances the cops are getting away with this leads me to believe it just isn't possible for these to be used responsibly, and should be banned.

[AX10]

138. Tasering a teenager who witnessed a fight on a bus and...

wouldn't talk to the cops.....

see this: http://www.headcity.com/AmericanDream/article.php?story=20040118211837367

http://web.amnesty.org/web/wire.nsf/February2003/Taser

"in Oct 2002, local police in Miramar Florida attacked a 15-year-old girl with pepper spray followed by taser, after she attempted to walk away from police questioning her regarding a disturbance that she witnessed on a school bus. Amnesty International commented on this case: "The use of these painful non-lethal weapons in the case of an unarmed child constitutes an excessive and disproportionate use of force contrary to the international standards to which the USA is a party". <8>"

If cops are going to abuse their power, then they must be punished. Maybe they should not have these weapons, period.

[cestpaspossible]

119. Poison gas, atomic bombs can be useful military tools if used properly.

Highly effective. Anyone who opposes all military use of poison gas or nuclear weaponry sees the world only in black and white.

:eyes:

[SmokingJacket]

112. Tasers would be fine IF...

they ONLY used them when they would otherwise use a gun.

I would advocate for them then --

[MrSlayer]

117. I feel the exact opposite.

I think all people who hate police officers and want to coddle criminals are stupid motherfuckers. Amazing range of views around here.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

124. "You talkin' to me?"

I don't hate anyone. And "Coddling" only goes as far as treating people humanely.

Torture and abuse don't fall into the categories you describe.

[MrSlayer]

125. I'm not for torture or abuse either.

But I support the Police doing their job. Unfortunately that sometimes involves getting physical with the perps.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

126. Aaaah.... "the perps"

Is this some kind of sub-species?

Someone accused is guilty without trial?

Give us a break.

[MrSlayer]

128. If a person attacks the police they should wait for a judge before acting?

Bullshit. Just what do you think the cops should do? Just let the person go on hitting them or otherwise resisting because they aren't a judge? That is fucking retarded. If you cooperate with the police they won't have to taser or beat you. If you act like an idiot you'll get treated like one and deserve it. I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about this.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

130. Bullshit.

Only 30 years ago, being black would get you a beating. Still happens on occasion.

You say: "If you act like an idiot you'll get treated like one and deserve it."

I say: God forbid the people in your world ever meet a disabled person.

IMHO, those thought processes are sadistic at least.

[MrSlayer]

131. I'm not sure I'm getting you.

What does being disabled have to do with anything?

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrSlayer]

136. Personal attack, against the rules buddy boy.

But I won't alert because it's stupid, like you. Heh.

I see, you are deliberately being obtuse like so many others and taking the term "idiot" literally. Since I wrongly gave you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you would understand what I meant by that I will explain it in detail. "Acting like an idiot" in a police situation means verbally abusing them, physically abusing them, defiantly non-complying and resisting and then complaining and acting like a victim when you get tasered or whacked with the nightstick for it. That clear enough for you? Sheesh. Just say you advocate anarchy and hate the police and be done with it. You don't seem to think the police are ever justified in using force. I'd love to see what you would do as an officer in a violent situation. Probably run away from the action or let the criminals go since they're all "innocent" and "framed" anyway. :eyes:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

137. "like so many others"

Are you having his problem a lot?

And god knows, "verbal abuse" should definitely be in a category for torture. Who dare offer anything other than subservience to our lords.

[MrSlayer]

139. Who said anything about torture?

Nice job of not comprehending again. Tasering someone for assaulting an officer is hardly torture. And no I don't really have this problem a lot. Just a select few individuals who hate cops and will do anything to down them regardless of facts or logic. Verbally abusing a police officer for doing their job is one of the dumbest things you can do and only escalates the situation against you. If you must argue with the officer, do so in a civilized manner. This is simple common sense.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

140. "Hate cops?"

where the fuck did that come from?

[MrSlayer]

141. The same place my advocating torture came from.

Sucks doesn't it?

[shanti]

133. yeah, like a 6 year old child

and a 73 yr old half blind woman....you sure won me over with THAT argument :sarcasm:

[MrSlayer]

134. Sure, citing extreme examples nullifies the argument.

Obviously I'm not referring to 6 year-olds and white haired grannies. Why must everyone be so willfully obtuse? You know exactly what I meant.

[shanti]

147. sure, those are extremes

but when they're tazering the "extremes", something's very wrong!

[MrSlayer]

148. I agree.

I think tasering has a place in police work but the circumstances must be extreme to hit a usually delicate class of person.

[noiretextatique]

143. tell me...is acting like an idiot a crime?

if so, then most of the world's population would be behind bars. police are trained to deal with difficult situations and difficult people...that's what they get PAID for.
police have every right to protect themselves, btw.
especially against hardened 6 year olds, and handcuffed 9 year old, and half-blind grandmothers. it's these exceptional cases where tasers have been used that are the source of the controversy. i doubt if most would be concerned when they are used as designed, to subdue someone instead of using lethal force, e.g., a gun. failing to comply with a verbal command generally doesn't warrant being shot.

[MrSlayer]

145. See post 136 for my explanation of idiocy in police situations.

Just the definition, the rest of the text is for the other guy and does not apply to you. I agree that hitting 6, 9 and 73 year-old people are beyond the realm of acceptable taser use except in the most extreme of circumstances.

[Moderator]

151. Locking

Original post is an extreme group attack against members who do not share the O.P.'s views on the question, and constitutes flame-bait in classic form.