Oh the twisted logic, RE: CNN Dean poll/Freepers

[wndycty]

Folks this silliness needs to stop. Not all people who are voting that Dean is hurting the party are FREEPERS. I'm one of them. Call me out all you want. I like Dr. Dean (I know there are those who will question that) and I AM NOT CALLING FOR HIS REMOVAL FROM THE DNC, however I'm concerned with the way things he has been handling things. I agree with his observation about the GOP being a white Christian party, however I would expect the chair of the DNC to be smarter with his choice of words. Hate on me all you want, but folks we need to get a grip. Deans comments have united the GOP and is causing trouble within the DNC and that is not good.

[Occulus]

1. You must be quite young

because I recall Republicans doing exactly what you're compaining about- and WINNING with it- for nigh onto twenty years now. :)

It's actually longer than that, but that's just within the part of my lifetime I was old enough to remember now. Republicans have won, and won, and WON with the kinds of attacks that Dean is making right now.

It's time they received as good as they have given.

[wndycty]

2. 37 years old. . .take it for what its worth

:kick:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. I'm old, and that's just great - taking our cues from Them

It's time the Democrats quit playing the defensive game you're advocating and Dean is advancing with this overheated and offensive rhetoric.

What I want the Democrats to do is stop sucking up to the Republicans by imitating them and following their every lead. I'd like my Democrats to be independent and strong and show the country that we stand for something other than the filth that's been spewed by the Other Side.

And, speaking from the vantage point of one who remembers Harry Truman in the White House, I must say that pulling the "age" number on a fellow poster doesn't quite ring valid for me.

[Kahuna]

35. YOU must be quite young... Your analogy is entirely inappropriate..

Inasmuch as for Repubs to divide on race when their constituents ARE THE MAJORITY (white, Christians) is quite different from A Dem attempting to divide on race. If it comes to a race war, surely you know by now, who comes out ahead. (hint: the Republicans, and don't think they don't know it) The repubs are seen as protecting 75% if the population, while Dean can be seen as attacking 75% of the population.

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Calling an 85% white, christian party a white,christian party is a problem

how, exactly?

The problem with politics/policies today is that they are DIVORCED FROM REALITY. It is based on spin, fantasies, and outright lies. Let's get a fresh start by telling the truth, loud and clear.

[wndycty]

5. The truth is not the problem. . .the delivery is. . .

. . .as a result, the Democratic party is having a bad week.

[BlueEyedSon]

8. The media/GOP seem to think the truth IS the problem.

BTW, did you actually hear Dean's remarks?

[Kahuna]

13. Bingo! Dean's careless use of words has just assigned the

majority of America to the Republican party. Even if people didn't know what they really were, they now know. Thanks to Chairman Dean.

Dean's careless use of words is making good white Christians think there is something wrong with them... as far as Democrats are concerned. Way to go, Chairman Dean! :eyes:

[Gays_R_Family]

58. spin cycle ...

Haven't you noticed that Dean took advantage of the attacks on him by other party members, Republicans and the media?

He turned it around so that now the story is about the people "wanting the Dems to fight back!"

He took back the spin!

Color me impressed.

[merh]

16. If the dem party was having such a bad week

Why then does the MSM find the need to target Dean and to hash and rehash the topic?

You are being "roved" believing the spin put out by the RNC in an effort to stop our forward momentum. Don't believe the spin!

They wouldn't be attacking if they weren't worried! :evilgrin:

Be scared you slimy MFs, be very scared! :scared: The dems have a leader with a backbone that wants to fight for us, for his nation!

[goclark]

29. We have had a bad 4 years not just a week

Let's not blame it all on DEAN, he is just beating them at their own game in my opinion. He will not be bullied!

Will republicans like us any better if we play nice guy? Hell no!

Dean was the sentinel for the WAR. He took the heat and after a while most of them were trying to say exactly what he dared to say.

Now he is calling them out on their elite racism and of course they don't like it. Harold Ford is trying to take a middle of the road position in order to position himself for Vice President on day, so is Obama. Let them do what they will.

Wish we could put up a united front but until we do, we need a "bad guy" and DEAN is willing to be it.

Let him!

[HuskiesHowls]

55. 4 years?? More like 11 years,

going back to the mid-term elections in 94 when the Newt and his "Contract with (or was it "on"???) America" took over the House!!

[goclark]

66. Thanks for refreshing my memory

The nightmare has been going on for way too long.

It must end and hopefully Dean will give the party back its spine.

[ScreamingMeemie]

90. erm...yes, saying it in a clear and calm voice is definitely a problem.

:eyes: Say it again, Dr!!! :bounce:

[RetroLounge]

99. Just In case you haven't noticed

We're having a bad decade.

Dean is not the problem.

Lack of spine is...

RL

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. What's the point of doing that?

Exactly what did that accomplish?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

23. Dean was right but he could have put it in a better way.

I don't see where this comment wins over more people.

Why not say something along the lines that the Republican Party is not very tolerant or "open" to people who non-white?

We cannot win without white Christians.

And the people he is castigating are not TRUE Christians - they are "phony" Christians - who don't beleive in helping the less fortunate. Many of the more liberal Christian churches have been speaking out against Bush and his policies.

[Kahuna]

27. What about getting to the crux of the problem and assigning it..

to religious fundamentalists? That's where the problem is. People did not need to be called out by their race. If the majority of religious fundies are, white, oh well! But there was no need to point the finger at white people who are still 75% of the population. Not very bright.

[wndycty]

30. Yes very sloppy. . .

. . .for the longest I wanted the DNC to beat the shit out of the GOP on race, but Dean's attempt were misguided and sloppy.

[reality based]

4. What's with all the Chicago people and Dean?

I'm having flashbacks to '68.

[stickdog]

6. Why is the truth uniting Reps in anger & dividing Dems in self-abasement?

Simple.

Many of our so-called Democratic leaders have no spines.

[CoolOnion]

7. Truth hurts--GOP is mainly white and Christian.

Check out this article from Christian Post, July 30, 2004:

Survey: White Evangelicals Most Pro-Bush, Republican, Conservative Group
http://www.christianpost.com/article/society/879/full/survey.white.evangelicals.most.pro-bush.republican.conservative.group/1.htm

[CatWoman]

9. you don't know how much your post disappoints me

and Obama can go fuck himself as well.

They should either get behind the DNC chair, or STFU.

[wndycty]

11. I'm sorry to disappoint. . .

. . .lets just remember Obama, Ford, Biden, et al have to stay in office Dean doesn't. I would not have so much of problem with his comments if his supporters would at least understand the position he has put those men and women in. Let him speak and let them disagree.

[Kahuna]

20. Don't recall you instructing people to get behind McAuliffe or

STFU! There were daily attacts on McAuliffe. Never saw you tell one person to STFU!

[CatWoman]

25. McAuliffe isn't Howard Dean. Howard Dean isn't McAuliffe.

I don't recall McAuliffe being attacked like this. Maybe I missed something.

And so far as me "instructing" people, well, um............

I was voicing my opinion.

[Kahuna]

28. You like Dean. I like McAuliffe. I wouldn't tell anyone to..

STFU over either one of them. It's still America, Baby.

[TriMetFan]

10. Well I agree with you, But

right now we need to stand together and put a stop to this crazy NeoCons Republicans that think we should live like them. The thing about us Democratics is that we can disagree on things and still be friends. Just remember right now we are not only fighting for our party but for our Beloved Nation. Lets stick together on everything even if we don't like some of the issues. How do you think the NeoCons have taken control? They stood together.

[wndycty]

14. Yeah but when is the last time you have seen the GOP

Side with the chair of the party over its elected leaders?

[TriMetFan]

34. Look I'm An EX-republican and you don't know

how much it takes for me to even write that. But I got to ask you this do you even know what they say behind close doors? If the Republican party really cared about the party do you think they would have not made all the crooks to step down?

My Dad who has been along time Democratic and who has fought for the civil rights for all of us just read your post. He thinks that the only way for our party to survive is to stick together and I have to agree with him. He says that repukes walk around with blinder on. They do what the repuke party tells them to do. But on the other hand we democratics have and will always be able to think for our selfs, but it is time to stick together and fight no matter what. Just remember this is not only about the party but about our Belove Nation.

[wndycty]

41. So you think we should just blindly follow Dean?

DO you think Barack Obama who represents the entire state of Illinois, should just STFU when the press asks him about Dean's comments?

[TriMetFan]

49. I don't live in your state, but ask yourself this

how has Delay been able to stay in power? The man is scum. NeoCons stick together. We need to do the same.

[wndycty]

50. Sticking together?

Maybe Dean should actually back the people who ACTUALLY WON SOMETHING IN 2004, like Obama.

[TriMetFan]

53. Or may-be Obama should vote the way a true Democratic

should vote? Did Obama vote for Bankruptcy Bill that helps companies but screws the every day Joe? Or may-be they "Democratic Party" wants to have the bad cop (Dean)?

[Cha]

73. Obama was one of the Dean Dozens..

maybe fucking Obama should have said what he thought in private to
to Dean!

[TriMetFan]

76. Amen to that.

[wndycty]

77. If being a Dean's Dozen requires you to STFU

Then it might be wise to pass on that honor 2006.

[Cha]

81. I Did Not say STFU!!

I said he should say it in private and not trying to be GRABBING those "running for president headlines"!

[wndycty]

85. So was Obama grabbing a running for president headline?

:kick:

[CatWoman]

86. maybe he was just grabbing his dick?

:shrug:

[wndycty]

87. Or maybe he was reassuring downstate Illinois voters. . .

. . .that he serves them as much as he serves us Chicagoans. You know he represents the people of Illinois, the entire state and that includes the white christians.

[Cha]

88. lol!

[Lars39]

12. Cheney now agrees with you, fwiw.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050612/ap_on_el_ge/cheney_dean

[wndycty]

18. Thats it then, I am changing my mind!

LOL. . .I hate Republicans more than the next guy, but I'm change how I feel if I happen to agree with them on an issue. . .lets get a grip. That logic is just silly.

[Lars39]

31. Silly me! I just always wonder when Democrats continually

do the heavy lifting for republicans.

[wndycty]

33. Maybe that is the difference between the GOP and the DNC or at least it. .

. . .it should be. We should not bite our tongues for unity.

[TriMetFan]

36. But this is the time to bit your tongue.

[wndycty]

38. Maybe its time for Dean to bite his tongue. . .

. . .think about this. Harold Ford is running for Senator in Tennessee, you know he is going to have a hell of a battle. Do you think he called IMUS and said I want to criticize Dean or do you think he was on the IMUS show and was asked a question?

[TriMetFan]

43. Again! No body has to like

every body, but it is time to bit our tongues as the people of the party. If we don't stand together the NeoCons have won. Unless that is what you want? Do you want to live under a iron fist?

[wndycty]

45. So we should stand together behind reckless behavior. . .

. . .Dean was reckless. Let Ford embrace Dean's comments and watch him get his ass handed to him.

[CatWoman]

47. Ford has his own problems -- maybe he should deal with his

criminal family members.

[TriMetFan]

51. Again I will ask you the question.

Do you want to live under a iron fist? This is what will happen and is happening. Its time that we the people of the Democratic Party stand together even if we don't like some of the things some of our leaders are saying.

[wndycty]

52. Iron fist? Sort of like not elected Dems getting attacked for criticizing

Dean? Lets not be hypocrits.

[TriMetFan]

75. I used Obama as a example.

Even though I don't like the way he voted on the Bankruptcy Bill I still think he can do a good job for us Democratics and will at this time stand behind him or any Democratic and will vote for them to help kick the NeoCons out of office. But we should always talk to each other to understand our views.

Again do you want to be ruled by lies or iron fist from the neocons? Or would rather stand behind our party even if you don't agree with what others have to say just as long as we can get the nuts out of power? I'm not saying not to question what goes down in the Democratic Party, but when the punches start we should stand shoulder to shoulder.

[Tactical Progressive]

68. I love the shot back at Cheney from DNC Karen Finney

....
"I've never been able to understand his appeal. Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does. He's never won anything, as best I can tell," Cheney said in an interview to be aired Monday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."
....

The vice president added: "I really think Howard Dean's over the top. And more important ... I think many of his fellow Democrats feel the same way."

Karen Finney, a spokeswoman for the Democratic National Committee, objected to Cheney's characterization of Dean.

"Governor Dean must be doing something right if the vice president of the United States would stoop so low as to use the governor's mother as a way to deflect from answering the concerns of the American people," Finney said Sunday. "It's no wonder President Bush's approval ratings are at an all-time low."

[Fovea]

15. The lines that Rove is jumping on

are stalking horses.

And they are working like a charm, if you saw
the Dean Reid Press conference.

Getting hammered while you stand stoically silent, costly.

Getting your opponents to show their unprofessional bias, while giving you a chance to hit them again... priceless!

I hope Dean keeps dangling the shiny object in front of Faux, DeLay, Frist, and Rove, while holding the 4lb hammer behind his back every damn day from now to 06. It means our potential candidates do not have to.

[Guaranteed]

17. We're all quite aware that some DUers don't support Dean. nt

[wndycty]

21. And what does that mean. . .

. . .is there an asterik next to my screen name. SO you are watching me, huh. . .is there a Blacklist that my name appears on?

[Guaranteed]

24. Your post was meant to note that some DUers don't support Dean.

We already knew that.

If you want to make a list yourself, go right ahead.

[chaumont58]

26. United God's Own Party? Causing trouble with the DNC?

"Deans comments have united the GOP and is causing trouble within the DNC and that is not good."

Governor Dean calls a bunch of white christians white christians, and that unites them? As opposed to what? What was you evidence that they were un-united(if that's a word)? Trouble with the DNC? Can you site some evidense of this? It is easy for me to find evidense that Governor Dean has caused some touble between the himself and the DLC, but the DNC? Can you give some evidence of this trouble?
Harold Ford is a DLCer, part of the beltway party circut. T paraphrase another beltway party circut goer, James Carville, I wouldn't piss down his throat if his stomach was on fire. Biden is for Biden, period, end of story.
I honestly don't see where Governor Dean's comments hurt. With whom?

[MsUnderstood]

32. It was teh way he said it people

He stereotyped the republican party. He said they never worked an honest day in their life. . .the spin on it is amazing--like a top defying physics that just goes on and on.

Do you know what DEAN could have done? He could have talked about the President and been honest about what the president has done or failed to do for America rather than the bash the republican party and been exagerative and misleading.

Being like the republicans shouldn't give anyone a good feeling, especially dean.

[Kahuna]

37. Right you are. When Dean says that he hates republicans...

he's attacking the Republican voters as well as the politicians. Because he always fails to draw a distinction. A lot of Independents are Republican voters too. So, he's lumping them all together. He's giving the Republicans a gift. How can anybody possibly think that is anything but counterproductive?

[wndycty]

39. Not only that. . .

. . .he puts every Democrat in a position to respond, do people think he made the comment and a bunch of Democrats called press conferences? No they were questioned about his comments. How would this have played out in TN had Ford said he agreed with Dr. Dean. And what would all of the papers outside of the Chicago metropolitan area have done to Obama had he concurred?

[TriMetFan]

40. Who fucking cares??????

So Dean miss spoke, so what! Bush,Delay and etc.. have fucked all of us and they are still in power. Does any one see something wrong here? It is time to just bit our tongues and stand with our party.

[wndycty]

42. Shouldn't Dean being making life better for his elected officials. . .

. . .instead of putting them in a position to defend his controversial statements?

[TriMetFan]

78. Don't you think that may-be if

these others that talked shit about Dean just did their job and kept their mouths shut that this whole thing would have been over by now? All they did was add more fuel to the fire. Also none of us are used to having some one like Dean in changer of the DNC. It is about time we have some one that is not scared shitless. Again I'm not all for Dean but it is time to stand up for our party.

[chaumont58]

44. My question is about who is offended

If Governor Dean calls a bunch of white Christians, white Christians; if he sterotypes repukes as never having worked a day in their lives, who is offended? I'm retired, but I worked for everything I have or ever had. I know a lot of repukes who did not! Truth is I don't know a lot, but what little I do know fit that criterion.
Governor Dean calls a spade a spade. Should he have called it a shovel? The DLC types don't like him, maybe they even hate him. In some way, he threatens their very existense. He is not a part of the beltway establishment. We have some evidense of what the establishment does, or tries to do, to outsiders, witness the Clintons.

[Malikshah]

46. Don't hate you at all

Just disappointed in that you cannot see the reality in front of you. over two decades of rolling over and dancing to the GOP/neocon tune. Nothing to show for it -- we've allowed ourselves to be labeled, marginalized and defeated and then, like some poor victims of domestic abuse, come back for more thinking we can change the abuser.

Get
Over
It.

Realize that Dean and thousands of others are standing up a la Stonewall, a la Rosa, a la (fillinaname) and saying-- we are bringing the fight to you. We are acting. No longer will we merely react.

[evilkumquat]

48. What happened to the "High Ground"...?

It has been a popular perception that liberals have traditionally stood for sanity and reason versus the greedy, win-at-any-cost conservatives. One of the tenets of being for "sanity and reason" is to politely listen to the other side's statements before giving one's own rational argument. Simply being mature enough to do so already gives one a moral victory.

Unfortunately, the other side has taken this to be a sign of weakness and perpetuated this myth so thoroughly in this country, liberals can no longer afford to take the high ground.

Democrats, on the very few times they are allowed on pundit shows, are shouted down by red-faced neo-cons, never being allowed to make any point except that they seem to be too weak to defend themselves. Should we be surprised a large portion of the public thinks the Democrats are too big of wimps to effectively protect the public’s interests, when they lack the strength to get a word in edgewise by telling that bully Bill O’Reilly to shut the hemorrhaging fuck up?

I lean so far to the left that when I flush, my turds go down counter-clockwise. And as much as it sickens me, I have come to the conclusion Democrats have no choice but to be as base, rude, snide and smarmy as the Republicans.

What we can do, however, is to make sure that when we are being as big of bastards as they are, our arguments are at least rooted in fact.

As long as Dean keeps spewing truthful vitriol (or at least more truthful than what the neo-cons are asserting), he has my complete support.

Evil Kumquat

[Hubert Flottz]

94. You are exactly right!

People can tell the difference between Howard Dean and the Republicans, ALREADY! They are not "JUST ALIKE"! I don't know how many dozens of voters from all parties, have told me this over the course of the last two presidential elections, "I Can't see a damned bit of difference between the democrats and the republicans anymore, except that Bush ain't gonna' take my guns!"

Dean scares the HELL out of the crooked lobbyists and their parasitic drones in BOTH parties, so they attack him again and again. The establishment in DC don't want Howard to rock their little lobbyist's Love Boat, by collecting any big money from the common voters! The bloodsuckers in both parties will slam anyone who will attack their cash cow.(big Business)

If we have the "moral high ground" why then did the other guys win on the very issue of "morality"? We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't! We're Damned because the GOP assholes even in the reich winger churches have called us everything from "Gawdless Heathens and Harlots" to "UNPATRIOTIC, Lazy, Bleeding Hearts and we've just sat and batted our eyes like a damned toad in a hail storm and took it...all for the sake of being "Politically Correct"! Do you think Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, ever even heard the phrase "Politically Correct"? Well we're all smug and "PC" now, here on our Moral Highground and our once great country is just SOL!

What we ALL should be raising holy hell about, is the Brown Shirt, strong arm, types of misdeeds, like F.James non-Sense'n'bully just pulled Friday, when he stilled the voices of the people we elected to represent us in OUR HOUSE! The GOP mis-leadership care more about their bank accounts than their honor, or their duty to their country! WE need people like Howard Dean and Al Gore to step up and to tell the damned truth and let the chips fall where they may! Otherwise we will go on being perceived next election cycle as, "Just Like The Republicans!"

IMHO, the Doctor prescribing a few cans of old fashioned Whoop Ass is the remedy we've needed for a long time! I never voted for Howard Dean in the primary or the general election last time, but if he runs again, I WILL!

[B Calm]

54. Have you ever thought about leaving the party...

[wndycty]

56. No, why?

Is that sort of like Republicans telling liberals to leave America?

[wndycty]

59. Considering

I support a woman's right to choose, I support Affirmative Action, I believe in adequate funding for public education, I support stem cell research, I am liberal, etc. . .where would I go?

[B Calm]

70. Maybe you are a green??? Whatever.. One thing I do know

Dean is not running for anything, so how about giving him a break and pick on the neo cons.

[wndycty]

71. But he is running the party and if we are going to win in 2006 and 2008

We need to hold his feet to the fire and make sure he is truly helping our candidates. If he is putting them in a position to answer for his controversial statements he is not helping them.

[B Calm]

95. What controversial statements???

[Adelante]

80. Why should he?

I don't know about you, but I belong to the Democratic Party, as does wndycty. Not the Deanocratic Party.

The Democratic National Committee. Not the Dean National Committee.

The Democratic Underground. Not the Dean Underground.

This stuff is turning to true madness, when a Democrat on the Democratic Underground is asked a question like this just because he thinks something different than the majority or perhaps only the loudest.

I support Dean as Chair and have since day one. Dean has said he wants to focus on Democratic issues, not on a story that has far outlived its importance, if it ever had any. Dean wants to get on with his job. We should all let him do that and focus on Democratic issues ourselves.

[wndycty]

92. Thanks WesDem

:kick:

[cry baby]

57. OK, let's be nicey nice to the repubs like Lieberman is...

that has worked well so far, hasn't it? We wouldn't want to hurt their feelings.

[BooScout]

60. Just because you love Obama.......

...You think you are right on this issue. You aren't. Get over it. people are sick and tired of Democrats laying down and letting the Republicans walk all over them.

The Republican Party is nothing but a bunch of fat old white men getting rich off the backs of the middle & lower class in this country. It's time America wakes up and hears the truth for a change. I find Dean refreshing as hell and I hope he never shuts up.

[wndycty]

61. This is not about Obama. . .

. . its about Biden, Richardson, Ford et al. Its also about making sure that we in the Democratic party can take issue with leadership. When Terry M. was in charge it was OK for people on this board to attack him without being labeled DINO's whereas someone speaks less than glowingly of Dean all hell breaks lose and people are told to STFU.

[BooScout]

62. And what does this post tell us?

"all this silliness" is what you label people's opinions that don't agree with you. You're the one posting numerous posts seeking to divide.

[wndycty]

63. Am I the one telling people to STFU . . .

. . .no I am calling it silly that people are bashing good Democrats because they spoke out against Dean. I'm not the one suggesting people leave the party.

[TriMetFan]

96. Have you ever thought that may-be

these guy's (Obama,Biden, Richardson and Ford) are going to try and make a run in 2008 for the White House? And that is why they jumped all over Dean? Look the best thing about DU is that we can have this type of talk with each other. Just understand that the reason the Republican Party has control is because they have stuck together no matter what and we need to do the same.

[wndycty]

97. Oh please

:kick:

[TriMetFan]

102. So there you go.

Would you rather have The Party all screw up then have us together? Or are you just piss that Dean is willing to do the dirt work others are to scare to do? Also I'm not trying to put you down, I'm trying to understand what you want from The Democratic Party.

[wndycty]

103. I want to take back the house and senate and possibly win in 2008. . .

. . .I'm for Harold Ford doing what he has to do turn TN blue, I'm for Barack Obama keeping the people downstate happy so he get re-elected in 2010, I'm for Bill Richardson doing what he needs to, to hold onto the the NM Governorship, etc.

[TriMetFan]

106. Very good. Now

don't you think that the rest of us want the same? But there comes a time that we have to bit our tongues and stand behind some one like Dean. Dean is our attack dog. Not all of us are going to be happy in what he says or does. He is going to piss people off, but I would rather have some one like him then some wimpy person that is not willing to take some heat. I also think that The Democratic Party knows that is what he is for. Now can you just imagine if the republicans would have told Newt Gengriet to fuck off how much better we as a nation would have been? But no they stood behind him even when the guy was so wacko and out there. They stood united. Shoulder to shoulder with all their leaders. That is what we need to do. Also I do think that DU is a good place for us to talk about all this and to learn from one another and there is nothing wrong with that. We can disagree to disagree,but when we are in front of those NeoCons we need to stand united and fight them just as hard.

[Catrina]

64. Have you ever wondered

why there was no media frenzy, no outraged Republican or Democratic leaders, screaming all the over the place when Cheney called Democrats in general 'the other faith'?

Where was the outrage on behalf of all Christians who are also Democrats, from Biden, Pelosi, Fox News, Cheney, Bush et al?

Explain why it is that Republicans can make the most denigrating (and untruthful) remarks about Democrats without even raising either a left, right or media eyebrow?

And how come their 'silliness' hasn't stopped them from winning elections? Why are the rules different for Republicans? If you're going to play the game, they set the rules, didn't they? Until the rules change, (and our nice, polite rules haven't done much) I'm fine with Dean.

Give'em hell, Howard!

[Tactical Progressive]

65. Dean phrased badly. So what.

At least he took a swing. If you don't think that's of vital importance, then you don't understand anything of the last fifteen years in politics. Even if he ended up spinning around and hitting us in the face, I don't care. That's how low my expectations are now. I'd rather get hit in the face accidentally by someone on my own side, if they are at least trying to hit the bad guys.

Even as a gaffe, this situation has alot of plusses:

1) At least he took a swing. Try to understand that much at least. For alot of us that has become first and foremost.

2) The people screaming at Dean, and those who concur with the people screaming at Dean, are already well beyond dealing with. Why are you worried about what they think? They don't think, and they're not going to change anyway. And if you believe that their howling is going to affect moderate opinions, well, anyone who is pondering whether: Democrats don't like white people? or Democrats don't like Jesus? isn't on the fence - they were lost to rational thought long ago.

3) This is an opportunity now. Face time for Dean to go out there and say things like:
'It's obvious what I was saying ....'
'They're trying to twist the important meaning of ....'
'Are you saying I'm against white people?'
'Are you saying I'm against my own religious beliefs ...?'
And in general make the point better than he made it the first time.

4) This is an opportunity for weasels like Ford and Obama to say all of those things and more:
'I think that what Howard Dean was getting at is ....'
'Republicans are confusing racial this ... with racial that ....'
'Religious this ... with religious that ....'

5) It's an opportunity for Dems everywhere to show our guys that we stand behind them, and like them, to better explain what the racist, classist, un-American Republicans do to this country. Or to just go off on a tangent into whatever you want to talk about like Republicans do all the time.

The only thing I don't want to hear is cowering, finger-pointing apologies.

[bling bling]

67. Good post.

The man's on our side.

If you want to call out Dean - find his phone number or write him a letter. This public ridiculing is suspect.

[CatWoman]

74. excellent post.

:thumbsup:

[Cleita]

69. You sound like my Republican parents talking about

Harry Truman years ago. They couldn't find anything to really criticize him about so what they did criticize Harry about was how he said things. "He could have phrased it differently, and not so rudely," they would cluck.

Give'em Hell Howard, just like Harry did!

I think how ever he wants to deliver our message is fine with me because it's finally being delivered at last. I think the Democratic Dance Company has worn their pink tutus thin and it's time for them to move on.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BronxBoy]

79. Please answer #65

I know you heard it!

[mandyky]

82. How many Dean bashing threads should someone start?

Like the other one this is just BS!

[Rainscents]

83. I don't understand this post... Why are you bashing Dean?

He doesn't just speak for YOU, he speak for ME too!

[ScreamingMeemie]

84. Wndy...I hope he keeps it up. I'm proud we're actually speaking out...

I'm on loan to the Dems right now, they've messed up so badly. Time to clean house.

[CatWoman]

89. the wit and wisdom of Dear Abby

er, Mrs. Grumpy

:hi:

[ScreamingMeemie]

91. Hey, CatWoman!!! How are you? Are we tired of this yet? Sour grapes

run long and hard with some in this group, I am beginning to believe. :pals: :hi:

[CatWoman]

98. I've had it with this crap

I'm off to watch some MST3K!!

:hi:

[mbee]

93. He should have said White Phony Christians. As far as I am concerned

he is handing things just fine. I realize not all Republicans are phony, but all of them stood by and let Bush steal two elections and, more importantly, get thousands of people killed and have done nothing. In my view not a one of them is worth two cents. Howard Dean must do what all the DLC pretty boys and girls will not.

[union_maid]

100. I think he's doing great

He's getting coverage. He's not putting most Americans to sleep. That's what the Democrats normally do. I'm sorry, but it's true. We bore the shit out of average America. It's show biz, folks. You'll never get a message across to people who have changed the channel or dozed off in their chairs.

Dean's mad as hell and he doesn't want to take it anymore. Aren't you? Shouldn't you be? Shouldn't your neighbor who voted for Bush but is getting screwed right and left?

[B Calm]

101. I agree.. Now if he'll come out and tell the working class that

the GOP is a front for the cheap labor party...

[BigBearJohn]

104. The Repukes are crying because Dean is SLAMMING them at their own game.

He's playing the game at their level (where they have been effective before) and he is beating them. Pretty soon they're gonna cry for mommy.

[leesa]

105. Nonsense. What is with you posting all these bait threads today?

Dean's doing a great job! If you think the current Dem "apologize for breathing" or the "I wanna be a Republican too" approach has been successful, you must be nuts!