I just got a ride home from a co-worker who turns out to be a fascist

[expatriot]

I need therapy and advice.
No shit. I real live effing fascist. Not the neo-Nazi racist goon type but a dangerous corporatist "thrash the wheat and let the chaff fall" type of fascist... of an ilk that makes Bush and Company look like social democrats.

I have this co-worker who is this fascistic Republican working a summer job --- he is actually like a junior in pre-med at a private university -- we hit it off at first and argued all day at work about animal rights, evolution and he got more and more evil and then after work he gave me a ride home and that is when he got real evil. First he started spouting off that liberals were at war with Christmas... at this of course I laughed thinking I was in some bizarro-world but then I realized he actually believed it. It went down hill from there. I was trying to steer the conversation to the whole Republican cultural-war distraction to get people distracted from real issues, like public education, etc.... in which he launched into his views that the establishment of a "public sector" was the cause of this country's devolution (funny, he doesn't believe in evolution). Now, get this... he said that he believed greatness comes from hardship and misery, and this is his words, "we must thrash the wheat in order to separate the grain from the chaff." I was turning pale-faced by this time, we were in my driveway, I could not leave, it was like watching a car-crash... he said that our nation is doomed as long as we continue to let "lazy mothers collect checks for popping out kids" "maybe they'd stop having kids if they saw a few of them starve in front of them!" (I swear to god he said that --- he actually believed what he was saying, I know he did... he had just let it all go because he had been in passionate debate for so long) --- oh my god --- my head is spinning because of it -- he really believed it. there is more i could say but just believe he is a fascist. is he beyond help? he is going to be a MEDICAL DOCTOR!!!!! He is going to be working there all summer, what approach should I take to help me a little LESS fascisitc.

[Maple]

1. Well if

"greatness comes from hardship and misery" ask him how much he's had.

[expatriot]

9. I did. His response....

something to this effect "yes, I was fortunate enough to have hard-working Christian parents who taught me the value of ________........ but I didn't rest in a "comfort zone," I am pushing myself to new limits..... etc."

A real whackjob.... but the scary thing is he comes across as NORMAL.... he is this extremely overweight kid with a cute round face whose mannerisms are very effeminate.... the thought has crossed my mind that he might be a closet queen who is over-compensating MAJORLY to win the approval and affection of his obviously rightwing father (I know this because he made reference to him a few times).

[Maple]

14. Then by his own admission

he's never going to make it. :D

Cheer up, he'll get over himself as he gets older.

It's the fashion to be 'rightwing ninny' at the moment, and that's all he's doing...following a fashion, and conforming.

Life will smarten him up in short order.

[KharmaTrain]

21. Or Make Him Worse...Make Him Bitter

It saddens me to see so many who I grew up with...marched against the war with...partied with...turn into Country Club Repugnicans where their net worth meant far more than their principals. They became comfortable and wealthy and, instead of being grateful for their fortune, have become mypoic and selfish...ridiculing the poor people they once promised to help.

Sounds like he got a good doseage of "white male superiority" drug...that believes in the ultimate right of people who look and think just like him, and have no room for acceptance of others. They've devised their own set of qualifiers, litmus tests and other standards guaranteed to make a majority fail and to build themselves up in the process. When they find out this system doesn't always work, instead of wising up, they become bitter...eventually they become Robert Novak.

[TreasonousBastard]

19. Oh, this came after I replied the first time...

and this kid, I assume he's a big kid, seems to have some very common issues. Like wanting his strict father's approval.

Nothing new here-- happens all the time, and he's sort of working it out, but not doing very well at it. Or so it seems.

Don't fight with him and don't "treat" his afflictions-- it won't work and will just dig him in deeper. If anything, be an example to him that his father is not the be all and end all.

Eventually, he has to work it out for himself, and he will, one way or the other. The best thing all of the rest of you cow-orkers can do is simply be yourselves and show him that you are not the ogres he might have thought you were.

Open the door for him to decide to walk through.

[chalky]

28. Sounds like a proto-Rush

"...he is this extremely overweight kid with a cute round face whose mannerisms are very effeminate...."
And he's in PRE-MED? I take it back--he's a proto-Frist.

[Benbow]

29. Compensating for having no courage of his own

"extremely overweight kid with a cute round face whose mannerisms are very effeminate.... the thought has crossed my mind that he might be a closet queen"

Viz, has no balls, in the metaphorical sense of the word. This is going to sound very non-PC but I have heard a homosexual man say that some gay men who are grossly overweight are that way so that they cannot see their genitalia. Ie they feel that they have no balls (due to domineering mother or alpha male type father), so their body makes that "come true".

Not much help, I know. But, huh, he sounds as if hardship is for other people. And he sounds completely screwed up.

[lenidog]

2. Besides cracking him upside the head every time he comes near

I am not sure how you can keep him away.

[crimson333]

3. maybe he was yanking your chain

since he already knew were you stand

or not...

[komplex]

7. Let he who is without _______ ; Yank the first chain.

I don't know what to fill in the blank there.

[expatriot]

13. the first time I met him a few weeks ago was our first discussion

this was our second.... I got the vibe from him then that he was one fo those "sit and wait for the right time to POUNCE with the religion stuff." He was probing my defenses. I don't think he was yanking my chain.... like I said I just think I wore him down enough and he were sort of this alternative world where there is no time and he just pulled out the big guns.... I can read people very well, ESPECIALLY in hindsight when I look back on it, he was NOT yanking my chain.

[Selatius]

4. He's not a Christian

Somebody here should tell this dumbass to read the teachings of Jesus Christ.

"we must thrash the wheat in order to separate the grain from the chaff."

That sound like Jesus Christ? Did he say the weak should perish and the strong survive? He taught that we should all help each other out, strong and the weak. He taught that when people are need that we should offer a helping hand, not let them suffer.

That sounds more like Hitler or Stalin, not Jesus.

I don't consider myself a true Christian because I don't think Jesus was anymore than a man just like the rest of us but even I know what the fuck Jesus said.

[lenidog]

8. Sounds more like a social Darwinist

[expatriot]

18. I thought of saying something like....

"If you'd stop reading the first chapter of Genesis over and over again you might make it to the part with Jesus in it" but decided against it mainly because I was unsure of what was inside the glovebox.

[knowbody0]

5. your post gave me chills

you are working with the boogie man

[Carolab]

6. First of all, he's talking out of his butt.

"he said that he believed greatness comes from hardship and misery,"

OKAY. Call him on his two-faced crap. He is going to a PRIVATE university, to become a doctor? WHO do you think is paying his way?

Ask him what his mother did/does for a living, and his father?

Draw him out and find out if his background was full of "hardship and misery". Ask him if he ever went hungry a day in his life--and if he had been starving as a child, would that have made his mother a better person?

Inform him that the welfare program was REFORMED--BY DEMOCRATS (oh no! Clinton and Gore!).

Tell him that the "public sector" is likely the ONLY sector that is going to pay his way once he actually becomes a doctor--once America wakes up and we get universal health care like every other industrialized nation in the world. Ask him how his salary will be paid then? Otherwise, does he believe that health care is only for the "rich" and that they will gladly pay an overinflated health insurance premium to receive his "care"?

And finally, you might bone up on this, which will help you to frame the debate around the moral values of progressives:

http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/research/rockridge/valuesmovement

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. I taught some of those smug brats when I was a professor

They kept talking about their "stressful lives," when they'd grown up in affluence and didn't need financial aid to attend a private college. They talked about "the school of hard knocks," but they griped endlessly if you actually expected them to do some work in class.

Sometimes I think this social Darwinism is a kind of over-compensation, because they know deep down that they've had everything handed to them. They have to justify their unearned privileges by dumping on the less privileged.

Of course, that's not the only possible response to guilt about one's own affluence. Some people (too few, in my opinion), work out their guilt by working for justice.

[mirandaod]

10. Didn't your mommy teach you

not to get into cars with strange people?? Please be more careful in future....

But seriously, I don't think you'll be able to change him - sounds like he's a true believer in the dark side.

[Carolab]

11. You don't need to change him. Just correct him.

He has the wrong view of progressives/Democrats.

[snot]

12. VERY IMPORTANT

I think this person may be mentally or emotionally ill. Or maybe just reading way too much Ayn Rand.

I suspect he's into S&M, figuratively if not literally. I'd be empathic, but don't get your hopes up; and maybe you should keep your distance.

Unfortunate that he wants to be a doctor, but the power the profession confers does appeals to control freaks.

[crimson333]

16. I am guessing his quote about hardship and misery

comes from the whole being purified by fire that is throughout the Bible.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. Argument, or even discussion, with these people...

is fruitless.

Really.

There are people who believe these things, and they think we are as nuts as we think they are.

The best thing to do with these people is to simply not discuss the theoretical issues with them, but engage them in solving specific problems.

For instance, situations always come up where one has to balance compassion with business. When they do, be ready with arguments why compassion in that particular case is good for business. Real arguments, not theoretical ones.

Remember, it is always easy for any of us to spout off about how things should be. But, it is not easy to make them that way. Life is not black and white and does not easily fit into ideological patterns.

[expatriot]

24. I think I pierced his dark armor a couple times but looking back

I think I got through to him the most directly is early on in our discussion when I was talking about the "circle of compassion" in reference to my stance on animal issues.
Later on he was thinking he could use the ol' "oh you liberals don't practice what you preach" when he asked me "so where do you buy your jeans?" I told him online at nosweatapparel.com and that I only buy union made clothes now and the sweatshop clothes still in my wardrobe will be worn until threadbare(as some of them already are). I told him about the fair-trade industry, etc. and he was really sinceerly impressed, as if all of that was completely new and all the myths he had heard about us liberals being hypocrites might be untrue. He then tried to recover with "you have all these wonderful attentions, you think you can change the world by doing good." I quickly responded, "No, you see... I don't see it as me going out to change the world, I se e it as me assuming responsibility for every action I take and me being able to find happiness with those actions."


and I say this without being arrogant because god knows I had trouble holding my own at times with a real live fascist, but when he, in his near-new car dropped me off at my trailer-home after hours and hours of heated fast-moving "intellectual" debate you could tell he was squirming as he looked at my trailer... like "holy shit... you're so smart.... why do you live like _this_? Could it be that some people's primary motivation ISN'T to horde wealth and to crawl over any corpse you have to to get it?

[TreasonousBastard]

33. As I hinted in my other post...

somewhere up there, this guy isn't a hopeless fascist, just a confused one.

And, as I said, you don't argue with him, you show him. As you are doing.

I'm imagining he's led a fairly sheltered life and really doesn't understand the realities of such things as poor single mothers, or your doublewide.

You can't tell him things, but you can show him things. That's what got Scrooge on the right track, and it might work for this guy, too.

[Tsiyu]

40. I love you expatriot

And those are great pics of you and your SO.

Maybe you could focus on how Repukes don't work or face hardship - like *. Instead of trying to defend against his mindset, play offense and calmly bring up losers who steal in that party. I don't know, but your assessment sounds about right. Ovcercompensating for an asshole old man...

And I know what you mean about folks judging you for living in a trailer...

Could it be that some people's primary motivation ISN'T to horde wealth and to crawl over any corpse you have to to get it?

:rofl:

[marions ghost]

45. excellent advice

"Argument, or even discussion with these people, is fruitless."
(quote from treasonousbastard)

--you have found out that there's no point in arguing theories, facts, or logic with this guy. If you get a chance to DEMONSTRATE a
point, yes, that's OK--but really I would not get further involved at this level where you are lighting his fuse and getting him all worked up. He's NOT screwed on tight. And don't accept rides or go anywhere with him. He has other issues.

Sometimes people who can argue their points well have a hard time NOT getting sucked into these kinds of endless debates. You will never change this guy's mind. Worse, YOU come to embody his worst fantasies of what it is to be a Liberal. Continuing this would just be wasting your time and might cause further issues.

One useful thing this does reveal is how widespread this kind of brainwashing has gone. And how insane it is. One would think an aspiring doctor would be too intelligent. Just goes to show that it's a mindset that transcends other factors. Although there are groups that might be more vulnerable, there's no one stereotype.

[Raksha]

17. Omigod, the absolute WORST of both worlds...

...a social Darwinist masquerading as a theocrat! Unfortunately, I think there's a whole lot of that going around in right-wing circles. What a horrible experience! Like you, I can't believe this guy is going to be a doctor--but then again, Mengele was a doctor too.

[roguevalley]

20. stay away from him. when his karma hits, you don't want to be around.

[Lecky]

22. It saddens me...

that arrogant people like that exist. I have no problem with republicans, (even though I tend to make blanket statements towards them out of frustration). I have tons of republican friends who are great people..but I can't deal with that particular type of republican breed, in fact I refuse to associate with anyone like that. They scare me.

[cynatnite]

23. If he makes it to becoming a doctor

That's a big IF by the way since that road is certainly paved with misery and hardship...he'll spend a few days and nights working in the ER where much of the 'chaff' winds up because of the lack of medical insurance.

He'll discover the joys of kids dying from abuse and poverty. He'll romp through the blood and gore from car accidents. He'll get to preach to those with mental illness and so much more!

Before getting to the high life where all 'good' christians go, he'll have to get down in the gutter with the rest of us. :sarcasm:

[thecrow]

30. I was just going to say that

Medical school might help straighten him out....
if he gets there.

[EFerrari]

25. Two suggestions

Ask him what the words, "First, do no harm" mean

Two, don't ever get into his car again. I agree with roguevalley. This guy is trouble waiting to happen to someone.

[fooj]

26. Yep. I agree.

Sounds like he could "blow a fuse" in a heartbeat!

Hiya, sfexpat2000! :hi:

peace.

[EFerrari]

39. Hi there, fooj!

:hi:

[WillowTree]

27. Avoid him.

[kaitykaity]

31. "Why aren't you in the Army shooting ragheads?"

You really need to fuck with this guys head.

You know, be subtle. Like that the things you
have to believe to be a Republican.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=56066

If you did it right, you could drive him
kind of nuts.

[queeg]

32. Let's hear it for Eugenics---

so maybe he wants to be in charge of who lives and who dies

[Joacheme Misrahe]

34. Do not EVER allow your self alone with him again

especially in the car at night. This guy sounds like the kind of person that makes people disappear when they're alone with him.

[newyawker99]

49. Hi Joacheme Misrahe!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[LightningFlash]

35. Tell him to very slowly step away from the remote and turn off Faux News..

He has been brainwashed by psychopaths. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[NMMNG]

36. Is he the love child of Ayn Rand and Leonard Peikoff?

:scared: :scared: :scared:


Run Forrest, Run!

[B Calm]

37. Why is he here, when he should be doing his patriotic duty in Iraq?

[NuttyFluffers]

38. heh, what makes him think he'll end up as wheat and not chaff?

:evilgrin:

his vision of hard work gets nowhere. in america's history it's all about nepotism, networking, and a silver spoon in your mouth.

if he's working for a living, even if he's trying to become a professional doctor, and not living off of his trust fund, trust me, he's already chaff in his distopia.

you could remind him that he's being used by powers far greater and more manipulative than he. but then, it might be a waste of time. let him wander around deluded and just give a wry smile, shake your head occasionally, and let him stew in confusion. if he tries anymore of that crap just reply, in full pedantic snark, "how deliciously naive! you entertain me."

heh. and yes, he does seem like a closet queen. and he does need to read more. and have more life experiences. heh heh, what an adorable child. how the world will eat him up and spit him out.

[alcuno]

41. "That's exactly how the corporatists running our country want you to think

Begrudge poor women money and care, while shoveling subsidies and massive tax breaks into corporations. If the citizenry is busy squabbling and pointing fingers at one another, they won't point their fingers at the greed and avarice emanating from Washington.

[undeterred]

42. I got a ride home from a doctor who said something awful too

Years ago when I was a lab technician I needed a ride home and ended up getting a ride from one of the doctors I worked for. He had a brand new BMW. We were on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago and a car full of black teenagers was nearby and he made a maneuver to cut them off, saying "The skin on my car is worth more than their skin".

I had to sit with this man in the car for another 45 minutes and think of an excuse not to take a ride when I really needed one after that.

[Bridget Burke]

43. Most kids get over Ayn Rand before they leave High School.

I'm at least the 3rd here to mention her name.

And I'll second someone else--if he actually makes it through medical school & into internship & residency--he'll find out about the real world.

I'm not as noble as you. I'd avoid him & defend myself with sarcasm if baited. Can you go by a Recruiter's office & pick up enlistment papers?

[Brewman_Jax]

44. The one thing that the neo-con fascists don't like is...

being forced to live under the rules they'd impose on everyone else. I'm going to use that theme the next time I have to deal with these brain-scrubbed idiot zombies.

Thanks for the reminder, I'll have to get some enlistment forms. BTW, I do have a copy of my DD-214 with me.

[Skittles]

46. OMG that's about as bad as the ride I received from a coworker

some years ago.......he was inadvertently cut off by a black driver (who was avoiding another a-hole driver) and proceeded to scream YOU F***ING N***** at the top of his lungs. I demanded he pull over at the nearest gas station so I could get out and call a cab I was so stunned and pissed. :(

[sweetheart]

47. He's a prodestant, not a fascist

greatness comes from hardship and misery, and this is his words, "we
must thrash the wheat in order to separate the grain from the chaff."

This is prodestant theology. "we" is god. The rot is systemic, and
it is not fascism, but patriarchal meritocratic elitism.

[FizzFuzz]

50. I can't help noticing that he narrows down the free floating hate

onto a common scapegoat: women, specifically "Welfare Mothers", a group of particularly powerless women (women already being hated by these domination obsessed misogynists) that the rabid right has created a hateful myth around so that they can freely excersize their fantasies of supremacy, power and contempt. And they can support their hatred, believing that these "leeches" are sucking their life's blood (ie money and potency) to lie back lazily popping out babies and recieving Cadillacs from the gov't. All the RW pundits tell them this.

I can pretty much guess that all things "feminine", gay men, compassion, emotion, art, creativity, cooperation, etc etc hold a special place in the lens of his burning hate.

eeek. Medical Dr, too? Why did the name "Mengele" suddenly come to mind?

[newportdadde]

51. He is just your typical Greedy social Darwinist.

Sounds like a close friend of mine albiet a bit more extreme. Lets take your coworkers comments like I often do with my friend and cut through the crap.

1) He is a doctor or pre-med at least. Is this so he can help people or make a lot of money. Given the tone of his comments I would say MONEY.

2) "establishment of a "public sector" was the cause of this country's devolution", "greatness comes from hardship and misery, and this is his words, "we must thrash the wheat in order to separate the grain from the chaff.""continue to let "lazy mothers collect checks for popping out kids" "maybe they'd stop having kids if they saw a few of them starve in front of them!"

Translation: Someday I'm going to be a doctor making a lot of money and I don't want to pay out any taxes.

Typical greedy social darwinist.

As a side I would LOVE to know his family background, I'd be willing to bet your looking at 6 figures here easy. Pretty good chance mom or dad is some type of high level managment, CFO, VP etc. Other then finding that out I would not discuss politics or religion with him in the future. I've stopped doing that with my friend its too much hassle.

[gratuitous]

52. I wonder how much wheat he's threshed in his lifetime?

And why is he going along in his cushy berth and not on the front lines to bring about the society he dreams of? My guess is that there is a huge chasm that may not be crossed, and people of his social standing don't do the actual "work" of society, they just reap the benefits.

[ArkDem]

53. I'll bet he hates cats too.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

54. Looks like he is

sexually starved and is tired of jacking off 3 times a day.