The 'christian' Right has crossed the line

[ck4829]

They are out promoting this report that says GLBT people are more likely to be criminals than straight people. This so-called report is quickly becoming the war cry of the 'christian' Right and many people already believe it.

However there is no such report. I'm very upset about this, I'm not Gay, but I have family members and friends who are and these lies are simply too much. People are actually believing this trash that this report exists. The 'christian' Right is pulling off a trick that I think the Nazis themselves would be proud of, and that scares me.

There must be some way to oppose them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3845673

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3849081&mesg_id=3849081

I am thinking of forming a group which will completely debunk this report and also shatter the credibility of Focus on the Family and it's affiliated groups.

[slackmaster]

1. You mean the line between truth and lies?

I think they crossed it a long time ago.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Don't mention christians and nazis in the same post

regardless of the data you have. You might just piss some DUers off. When the christian right replaces the constitution with the bible, no such comparisons will be allowed, so there will be no one to offend.

[ck4829]

5. I know, I'm sorry

To me there are Christians and then there are 'christians'.

Christians are the people in my family, DU'ers, people like Oscar Romero, Martin Luther King, and many more.

'christians' are people like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, etc.

[BOSSHOG]

7. No need to apologize to me

I'm not offended at all. I think the greatest threat to our country is the separation of church and state. If that isn't firmly established and if the religious right "christians" are allowed to fly forward with their agenda it does not matter what the other issues are. If I piss off some christians, that's too damn bad. I didn't spend 24 years in uniform supporting and defending the bible. I dearly cherish the constitution and consider "christians" to be domestic enemies of that document. If anyone is pissed at this post, then do something about it, like helping ck4829 with his project. I stand by my two cents worth.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

19. You're right, plus

the entire First Amendment is currently up for grabs and needs vigorous defense more than ever.

It's not just the Establishment Clause that these professional christians are trying to void - they're trying to silence those who oppose them, and, at the same time, make sure the press has been neutered.

Thanks for your service. I've been batting down threats to individual rights a little longer than 24 years. Let's not stop now.

[MisterP]

28. "Fristians"

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. Hitler was a Jew?

Oh, man, now I'm really confused ...........

[WePurrsevere]

11. Just an FYI moment

I had been taught that he was in school but felt I should check my facts since I've learned over the years that the history taught in school is not always a fact.

According to a couple sites I found (using Google and the search words "Hitler Jewish") there's no proof just speculation. *If* he were Jewish it would have been through his unidentified Grandfather.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

18. Ever see the movie "Max"?

Stars John Cusack - an actor I like a lot - and tells an interesting story of Hitler as a young artist.

I'm Jewish, and I'm certainly not pro-Hitler, but this is one fascinating, brilliantly executed film.

http://tinyurl.com/9kjh3

[WePurrsevere]

30. No

I don't think I've seen that one but after your recommendation, Googling it and reading the review on Salon.com I will definately look for it. :)

A couple statements the review made were very thought provoking, "... evil does not simply crawl from the shadows, but emerges through circumstances and choices." and "It's easy to portray him as a monster, it's harder and more disturbing to show his humanity and how it became poisoned." I guess to me it makes sense to learn the "why and how" someone "evil" becomes that way... imo if we don't know the cause of the "illness" how can we truly hope to find a "cure"?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

41. That movie screwed me up for a long time

It made me see things from Hitler's perspective, if only for a moment, and, in that moment, he became human to me.

I hated that. It was easier to know him as an inhuman monster.

We bought the DVD, but I've yet to watch it because it is such a powerful, intense, thought-provoking, demanding, and brilliant piece of work. I do hope you get to see it, and, if you think of it, please let me know what you thought, OK?

[enigmatic]

50. I've got to see this

Still haven't gone to see "Crash", but that's this weekend, hopefully.

[Occulus]

35. .

[48pan]

3. What's new?

Christians are a dangerous cult.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

4. Beware the ones who cite "reports"

The rightwingnuts are especially big with this technique. They love saying trash like this, and then running away. They're never called on it - which pisses me off - and so they do it over and over.

The Big Lie. That's what it is, in tiny, cumulative parts.

Debunking this crap is the job of journalists. They should not publish this bullshit without examining it, without questioning the person who makes the statement. They just should not. They should state - clearly and in the lead of their article - that there is no substantiation for the claims being made.

It's all on the press, as far as I'm concerned. As long as they're a bunch of spineless fucks with no accountability or conscience, we are screwed.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. A technique they learned from their Saint McCarthy.

"I have in my hand a list of forty nine known communists who are now employed by the state department..."

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. EXACTLY!

It worked then, but good triumphed, thanks to one of my personal heroes, Joe Welch (one of the reasons I decided to become a lawyer).

Where is our Joseph Welch now?

[enigmatic]

39. Joesph Welch

I'm playing a 9 minute audio clip of the "Have you no decency, at long last?" from the Army-McCarthy hearings on my overnight show that I found; it was the first time I had ever heard it, and it's just as revelent today than it was in in 1954(?).

I remember as a kid the first time I had ever heard of him was when he played the Judge in one of my all-time favorite films "Anatomy Of A Murder"; after I found out who he was and what his place in history was, I read as much as I could about him.

He was a hero.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

42. I got chills just reading your words

There was an amazing production in Chicago when I was in law school years ago - a local theater company took the transcripts of the McCarthy hearings, edited them down, and made a play out of it.

The man who played Joseph Welch also happened to be a law professor of mine. When he delivered that "Have you no decency" speech, I broke down in tears. I still do.

It's humanity at its finest.

Well, I hope you're happy: I'm crying now.

You big bitch ......... :woohoo:

[enigmatic]

44. I made you cry?

I'm gonna catch hell for that:)

I'll let you in on a secret; I had tears in my eyes when I heard it, too. I see what's going on today and so much of it parallels the HUAC witch Hunt of the 50's; they names and the players have just changed.

I really don't know who's going to be our Joesph Welch; will anybody be that heroic? I hope so...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

45. Keep in mind

HUAC was something else entirely. That was the House Un-American Activities Committee. Those bozos had been around for years before they started flipping off Commies in the US right after WWII.

McCarthy was a Senator. He had his own dog-and-pony show going, and he didn't take off until the early fifties.

Think about that - one after the other over about a ten-year (I'm guessing) period.

Ever see "The Way We Were"? That movie always makes me cry, too.

But, you're right. You're toast ........ :nopity:

[enigmatic]

49. Oh, I know

To me, they were always inter-twined in their pitchfork and fire mentality; both working the same sides of the persecution block.

There are alot of films from that era that are perfect for today's mindset; I was thinking of "A Face In The Crowd" as well. Even though it was a take on Arthur Godfrey's career to a certain extent, I see it just as relevant to the Limbaughs, Hannitys, and others who cloak their megalomania w/ an "aw shucks" manner..

[tsuki]

24. I just watched the original "The Manchurian Candidate" last

week-end. It is more relevant today than in 1962. James Gregory and Angela Lansbury are chilling. They represent the NeoCons of today.

Fact, with a few pounds, James Gregory could have made the switch from a "McCarthy" character to a "Tex Sensenbrenner" character.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

43. Scariest movie in the world

It was scary when it came out - I'm old, don't forget - and it's even scarier now.

You know about Frank Sinatra, the JFK assassination, and that movie? Check out the history - kind of interesting.

[tsuki]

47. The DVD has some interesting commentary from Frank Sinatra

& Angela Lansbury. And it is true, sometimes I do feel like Laurence Harvey.

[KharmaTrain]

12. It's Layered Over Time

You'll see this "report" cited in another "report"...that will be distributed by the AEI or some other wingnut think tank that Dobson will then regergitate in one of his "reports" which will be cited on someone elses site and radio show and so on. It's a high tech game of telephone.

These are their little internal memos...conveluted ways to justify their homophobic and myopic views and to create a false reality by papering it over. This is the true perfection of creating the "Big Lie".

[OldLeftieLawyer]

15. That's right,

and the press just keeps reporting it, like a blind typist following copy right out an open window.

They are NEVER held to account. NEVER. Meanwhile, every little thing a Democrat says or does demands justification and verification.

I am so fucking sick of these tactics and the weenie bastard pretend-journalists who let them get away with it.

Thank you for letting me vent.

:rant:

[MountainLaurel]

32. Exactly

It's something I teach my library students every day: information literacy. You have to look at every source in terms of who is putting the information out there, who is paying for it, what biases do they have, are they trying to sell you a product, do they have expertise in the area, how current is the information, and so on.

It seems that many journalists are falling down in this area -- I don't know how many times I've seen a particular organization cited in new reports that is essentially a legitimate-looking front for a white supremacist organization.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

40. You familiar with Deborah Lipstadt?

Boy, does her work ever illustrate perfectly the wonderful job you're doing.

She's the author of "Denying The Holocaust," a brilliant work, and she ran into trouble when she refused to appear on TV shows because they were inviting people who would "represent the other side." She said, quite rightly, "There is no other side."

So, of course, one of the men she quoted in that book, David Irving, a notorious headchase denier, sued her in Great Britain - where the laws on libel and slander are quite different from here - and she and her publisher went right up in his face in the British courts.

She got another book out of it, one even more compelling, called "History On Trial."

Lipstadt's work is the primary example, I think, of what we're addressing here - the lie told upon lie upon lie until it becomes someone's authentic reality without any thought to its origin.

Bless you for the work you do.

[Mnemosyne]

9. I think the morans must be figuring

a sex act as the "crimes".

I am soooo sick of these jackasses.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. These people are unreal. They have no ethics, principles, or morals.

[WePurrsevere]

13. Folks like these

Give the true followers of what Jesus taught a bad name. As someone said... there are Christians and then there are christians... the former truly try to walk the walk... the later sure don't seem to get Jesus' message of love, peace, tolerance, forgiveness (unless it's for themselves) and understanding.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

16. My husband calls those bastards

"professional christians."

[WePurrsevere]

31. Although accurate...

don't you think that may be just a bit too kind? ;)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

37. He's a Chinese-born Buddhist

He's a softie. :)

[MojoXN]

17. Hell, Jesusians seem...

to be the ones who get caught with their cocks where they shouldn't be. I'd bet that James Dobson has a few skeletors in his proverbial closet. Discredit him, an you destroy the movement.

MojoXN

[Disturbed]

22. The Fundie Fascists must be confronted by....

Christians who still believe in The Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

[kliljedahl]

20. Sounds as authentic as & as reliable as

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", another totally fabricated document. The internment & extermination begins shortly.


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[ck4829]

21. UPDATE: This is NOT the 1st time that FOF has LIED to the People

One of Dobson's groups was behind that 'California has banned the Pledge of Allegiance' trash.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200412090002

[ComerPerro]

23. I remember last week when a gay guy stole my car

and then a few days later I got mugged by a gay guy.


:wtf:

More likely to be criminals?

What does that even mean?

[Ms. Clio]

25. The report does exist, it was published

in a "revered psychological journal" that for some reason, most pesky "mainstream" psychologists and whatnot find biased and misleading. There was a thread about it yesterday.

They do have a report, apparently, but it's just junk from a non-credible source.

[ck4829]

26. Perhaps, but here are some facts

1. Yes it is junk

2. It is from a non-credible source

3. There are things that aren't mentioned that Dobson and his ilk DO mention about being in the report such as a crime rate while a GOVERNMENT report just about exclusively mentions drug use and mental disorders in GLBT people

4. There are conflicting things coming from them, at one point they say it come from a GOVERNMENT report, in other places they say it is IN a Psychological journal

[Ms. Clio]

48. Well, the whole thing is pack of vicious lies and propaganda

I'm not surprised they are pulling various bogus "reports" out of their collective asses.

[viperf117a]

27. 911 When Petrograd’s go Retrograde (Right Wing Opposition)

911 When Petrograd’s go Retrograde



Political corruption has historically worked thru religious colligates and their institutions for centuries. Go figure Asama Bin Laden was the accused chief terrorist and mastermind of 9-11 then mysteriously disappears while Saddam Hussein winds up having Weapons of Mass Destruction so then we all go on a roundup. We knew all right see US involvement in the Iran-Iraq war and then read about the life of Mohammed Bin Laden and the “Saudi Binladin Group". However, in the real world the UN never finds creditable evidence to support this claim. Has anyone else researched the Ronald Regan administration and the contras? C’mon people follow the money trail here it is truly the pot of gold at the end of every rainbow. There are Seven Sisters to every pot of gold and that pot goes back to 1911 where we Americans can mostly find Petrograd’s and the break up of Standard Oil.

I always love a good game of Monopoly!


Donald meeting Saddam on December 19, 1983

I have never forgotten The Tower Commission of November 1986.

So why did 9/11 happen after all?

It seems two bin Laden tycoons (Mohammed and Salem) have died
in aircraft accidents outside San Antonio, Texas.
Man weird me out for sure and please remind me never to visit
while flying.

Could this have been a deal of the century gone wrong...?

Not everyone American citizen has been sleeping Big Brother
as I grew up with this political candy and have been very
attentive politically and historically.
So in light of being a falsely investigated terrorist how
about starting some FBI files on some other historical
documents as well…





The Seer


References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_bin_Laden (Died in 1968)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_bin_Laden (Arbusto Investor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asama_Bin_Laden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_bin_Mahfouz ($$ Terrorist Banker)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Hassan_al-Bakr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_Arif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Regan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War#US_involvement_in_the_Iran-Iraq_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair#Discovery_and_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra#Funding_the_Contras
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARAMCO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Aramco#Associated_companies.2Fsubsidiaries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfield#Reagan_Administration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfield#Ford_Administration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Institution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARCO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbusto_Energy
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/196605/terminal.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein#2003_invasion_of_Iraq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Survey_Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_R._Crane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresser_Industries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Bath
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averell_Harriman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John_Philby
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_American_Airlines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_energy_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg (Petrograd)
http://english.pravda.ru/usa/2001/04/18/3730.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sisters_%28oil_companies%29

[Al-CIAda]

52. Welcome viperf117a!

:hi:

[newyawker99]

54. Hi viperf117a!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Lindacooks]

29. I don't understand Christians being upset when some of them

are called on their hypocrisy and lies. I'm a Christian, and I have no problem saying that many 'Christians' are hypocrites and are hurting people. I know where I stand.

It seems that many Christians have such little faith in their faith that their fur automatically bristles when anyone says anything bad about Christians. Grow up.

[Disturbed]

33. Bill Moyers and Jimmy Carter have been...

speaking out against the Fundie Fascists as have other prominent Christians. It is obviously important to seperate the Fundie Fascists from mainstream Christians.

[Lindacooks]

34. Yes, it is.

[Viking12]

36. Um, how does that commandment go??

Oh yeah, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

[Vinca]

38. They should look toward their own christian right if

they want to find criminals. Now . . . where'd I put those rare coins??

[Rex]

46. They've been crossing the line for centuries

what could stop them now?

[dogday]

51. These kinds of people feed on a common hate cause. That is

all that keeps them going is their anger and hatred towards someone or something. First it starts with the gays, but trust me, it will not stop there, they will continue because they have to have that common denominator, a cause of hate, without it they are not a group...

[NMMNG]

53. Paul Cameron is not a legitimate researcher or a Psychologist

On his curriculum vitae, he describes himself as a "Researcher/Clinician." According to the web site of the Nebraska Department of HHS Regulation and Licensure, his license as a Psychologist has been "inactive" since 1995.



Early in 1984, all members of the American Psychological Association received official written notice that "Paul Cameron (Nebraska) was dropped from membership for a violation of the Preamble to the Ethical Principles of Psychologists" by the APA Board of Directors.

At its membership meeting on October 19, 1984, the Nebraska Psychological Association adopted a resolution stating that it "formally disassociates itself from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron in his writings and public statements on sexuality."

In 1985, the American Sociological Association (ASA) adopted a resolution which asserted that "Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism" and noted that "Dr. Paul Cameron has repeatedly campaigned for the abrogation of the civil rights of lesbians and gay men, substantiating his call on the basis of his distorted interpretation of this research."

At its August, 1986 meeting, the ASA officially accepted the committee's report and passed the following resolution:

The American Sociological Association officially and publicly states that Paul Cameron is not a sociologist, and condemns his consistent misrepresentation of sociological research.

Cameron's credibility was also questioned outside of academia. In his written opinion in Baker v. Wade (1985), Judge Buchmeyer of the U.S. District Court of Dallas referred to "Cameron's sworn statement that 'homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals,'" and concluded that "Dr. Paul Cameron...has himself made misrepresentations to this Court" and that "There has been no fraud or misrepresentations except by Dr. Cameron"

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_cameron_sheet.html

Cameron is nothing but a bigot masquerading as a professional, therefore his claims are bogus.