Please help calm my fears, Downing Street memos aren't another memogate

[LynneSin]

I love how this story is just building after the media totally ignored the DSM in the beginning. If anything I keep thinking that this is the strongest case against Bush because the story didn't go gungho in the beginning and fade away like so many other issues that have come out against the Bush Regime. Instead this was like a smoldering volcano that is building up pressure and I can see this thing getting close to eruption.

Then that little doubting thomas in my brain reminds me of all the flack from the "Memogate" - the so-called memos regarding George Bush's lack of military career during the Vietnam war. (Btw, I think Karl Rove made those himself).

Please someone tell me that we don't have another memogate - that these memos, without a doubt, are 100% real

:D

[thoughtanarchist]

1. pinch pinch

Nope, you're not dreaming.

DSM is a Real. British. Govt. Document.

and yes... the media buildup is rolling along nicely now...

:popcorn:

[LynneSin]

3. OUCH!!! I bruise easily

:D

Thanks for caring though!

[thoughtanarchist]

6. sorry 'bout that...

here's a little something for the pain...

:smoke:

Don't tell the feds...

[Karenina]

11. M-I-N-U-T-E-S

DOWNING STREET MINUTES - OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT MINUTES OF AN OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT MEETING - distributed to U.K. EYES ONLY in the form of a memorandum...

Here ya go, Sweetiekins. Unca Ray will make it all better...
(Been considering having my tubes rejoined so I can have his love-child.)

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050613/downing_street_ii.php

[evermind]

2. NBC, RawStory, afterdowningstreet, LAT, UK Gov - all say they're real

Since Michael Smith (DSM journalist) talked to Rawstory, we now know the latest six are the same as the ones that appeared in the UK press last September. In one of those stories ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1308368,00.html ) it says of those memos: "The Foreign Office yesterday acknowledged the documents were genuine".

The UK Gov. has not in one instance contested any of the (8) documents out at the moment.

Short of a signed, handwritten note from Tony Blair, with notary's signature attached, I don't think you could get more proof that they're genuine documents.

Now as to the interpretation - that can, and has been argued. But the evidence seems overwhelming that the documents themselves are not fake.

[bigtree]

4. How do we know for certain what is real and what isn't?

All most of us know is what someone else reports, most often from the copmpromised media. I can't shake the feeling I've had that some of these 'false' documents were, in fact, genuine, or, at least, portrayed the truth as it was once documented anyway.

I mean, what's to stop someone from stirring up that forgery talk again to put a tarnish on the documents. Most folks only listen to half of the story when it's reported in the media. I guess the key will be a vigilant advocacy, on our part, to educate the public about truths most of us have all actually known for some time about Bush's predisposition to invade and occupy Iraq.

[Toots]

12. Well you can know for certain if a Republican said it, it ain't real

Not a truthful thing ever comes from their mouths.

[Justice]

5. I do think part of the initial hesitation by US media was fear,

b/c they came out during the UK election. But we are past that now. Oddly, because Blair and Bush didn't say they were fake at the joint news conference when asked about them by a (reuters?) reporter - it was as if the US media felt they could report on them.

What happened to CBS and Newsweek has chilled reporting. Deep Throat's identity reveal has given reporters something to aspire to -- days when reporters were reporters.

[DemocracyInaction]

7. LynneSin--dare I say it--you're only dealing with half the issue

The other half is "how will this rock the American people"?? You already know the answer to that one. Those who were "anti-war" will say "SEE" and fade off center stage as the media had them fade off before. The rest of Amureka will say "WHO CARES" just like they have when they found out there were no WMD's. They already know they were lied into war and they don't care. In fact, they love Bush for it 'cause it was time to beat up them "goddamn ragheads" and make 'em know who's boss in this world, blah, blah. You know the drill. Alas, there will be little to no change in anything because of this. And it's time we stop trying to prove Bush is a lying asshole and start doing and saying something--anything--as a Dem party. Making people hate Bush does not translate into them voting for the Dems on their ballots. It's like we keep ignoring the 10 ton elephant (no, the 10 ton donkey) that's sitting in our own living room while we scurry around trying to shoot Raid on the bugs.............

[Generator]

8. Yes but Americans have the shortest memory of any country on earth

And they know no history.

This works to the advantage now because they are finally realizing that a bunch of dead soldiers in Iraq isn't making them a damn bit safer and is turning into an endless pointless war. It's sad to say but the more that die-the closer it gets to someone-just by virtue of the numbers.

They are ready to turn against Bush and will only get so more every day. It works to our advantage that he was just "elected" so there is no focus on protecting the leader-nothing Americans love more than to drag down someone they once "loved".

Gas prices and the economy sucks-maybe they are ready to pay attention. Every country needs a scapegoat. Of course, looking in the mirror never works.

Let's blame the government. Fortunately-they are mostly to blame this time.

Win win.

[evermind]

10. Sadly, that appears to be true, at least according to the two

"Democratic strategists" cited in the Washington Post's Terry Neal, Jun 14th (Democrats Looking for a Road Map to Downing Street).

Two Democratic strategists I talked to said their party should forge ahead on the memo -- but carefully.

Erik Smith, a former longtime adviser to former House minority leader Richard A. Gephardt, said that although there are "cracks in the president's Teflon," most voters are turned off by suggestions that he purposefully lied to make the case for war.

"I think that the party can get an advantage talking about it, but it has to be done very carefully," said Smith, who has studied research of voter perceptions last year while at the liberal Media Fund. "The research found that you couldn't make the argument that there was malevolence involved, that the president intentionally lied to get to war. You can make the argument that there was thorough planning, and you can make lots of arguments about mishandling. But saying that he purposefully put people in harm's way was not a credible argument."

Similarly, Dane Strother, who advises numerous congressional and gubernatorial candidates, said: "I'm not sure [the memo] is news. People know he lied. Paul O'Neill said that Bush planned on attacking Iraq all along in his book two years ago. [Bush and his advisers] haven't showed themselves to be very vulnerable. . . . They forge ahead anyway."

Myself, I think I would ignore the "research" and "forge ahead anyway" on portraying Bush as a liar whose lies have cost thousands of lives (and lined his supporters' pockets). The way a country's mood can swing has yet to be exhaustively charted by the practice of motivational psychology and focus group studies, I think.

Edit: pesky square brackets!

[Lorien]

9. Rove isn't omnipotent

he doesn't control what happens in Britain.

[Al-CIAda]

13. Well, why aren't the US Gov't. FAKE yellowcake, FAKE WMD docs, FAKE causes

for war receiving such scrutiny and villification of its authors from the Corporate pre$$?

Anodized Aluminum tubes or fake mobil chemical labs anyone?

[underpants]

14. The Iraqi "Ghost fleet", Pvt. Lynch (not her them), "stolen uniforms" etc.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/documents/truth_1.pdf

[Mnemosyne]

15. Hey Lynn, I feel your doubt!

And as I understood it, the copy of that other memo was a fake, but the memo itself was real. Someone correct me if I've misunderstood, please.

We're going to get them on this, they are sweating bullets!

:hi: :hug: :yourock: :woohoo: :woohoo: :applause: :applause: :applause: :patriot:

[cthrumatrix]

16. kick