The Second I Saw the Second Jet Hit the Second Tower...I knew

[mopaul]

and four years later, i haven't changed my mind one bit.

[unhappycamper]

1. Don't mean to sound like a wiseass, but knew what?

LIHOP? MIHOP? Something else?

[knowbody0]

2. the deeper you probe

the more you know. the fact that cheney was diddling with FAA, instructing them to stand down, the fact that usual response time for launch is 12 minutes, and it was 27 minutes on 911. it is so creepy to ponder the malice. the stuff of nightmares. where are the journalists? sigh

[FreedomAngel82]

12. I agree

I remember that day. I didn't feel shock or anything like that (like with JFK junior's plane crash). It was like I knew it was supposed to happen or something. :shrug: But yes, the more I've read and looked into it the more I know it was MIHOP. Check out the documentary "Loose Change." It's great and definitley helps to show people. It's not too hard to wrap your brain around things they've said. The phone call thing I'm still not sure about myself but everything else is easy to understand and all that.

[indepat]

42. Too many don't care what went down and too many others are afraid

to find out.

[shanti]

141. and then

there are the aware on DU....

[katty]

52. Agree: 9-11-Response was so obviously slow/bungled

the script read like a Murder She Wrote w/alot more characters

[Media_Lies_Daily]

68. The breakdown is between the time that various FAA contollers....

...knew that multiple hijackings were taking place, and the moment that the FAA notified NORAD.

Another breakdown in the communications was the fact that Rumsfield was the only person that could authorize the use of interceptors, and he was supposedly hard to find on 911. This was a new directive put into place prior to 911...before that time, NORAD was capable of launching interceptors without any other input.

I also find it interesting that photographers were able to find Rumsfield on 911 helping to pull the injured out of the Pentagon, but NORAD had difficulties in doing so.

And why were the interceptors chosen from bases farthest from the flight paths of the intercepted airliners...from south of Boston, and outside Hampton, VA?

And why was NORAD conducting in-air drills with other interceptors on dealing with hijacked airliners?

Yep...lots of questions.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

152. Picky, picky.

Put optiions.
Low Presidential favorabilty ratings.
MIC contracts.
Oil prices.

Who benefits, damnit?!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

159. Bingo. Who benefits.

[MichiDem]

3. You're just a

teasse

[Double T]

4. It's Been Done Before 911, It's Been Done For 911 and.....

be assured, it will be done again, as long as evil individuals rule.

[Protagoras]

58. And that's a Looooong time

cuz I don't see anything changing to prevent people like that from clawing and stabbing their way to the top.

[Deja Q]

131. Which means it will never end.

[cthrumatrix]

5. and the media has only gotten worse...lie after lie

[Dora]

6. Me too.

Not budging.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

7. It took my bulb a little while longer to light up

...Hit me when WTC1 was crumbling to the ground. I was by myself and called out loud, "it's bush!" I'll never forget that moment either.

[elehhhhna]

48. 'bout that time, yes, me too

[shanti]

143. yes!

that's exactly what i said! it was a lightbulb moment. i've thought it was MIHOP from the very start.

[spooked911]

151. I was suspicious early on but it look a while for my doubts to take form

I think in May 2002, when the stories came out about Bush being warned, the PDB memo, I was VERY suspicious.

On the day of 9/11. apart from the horror of it all, I was really bummed because I knew Bush and his crew was goiing to take political advantage of the situation. But I had no idea just how much they would take advantage of it!

[kurtyboy]

168. When the first tower fell, I said out loud to my wife

"That looked exactly like a controlled demolition! Did you see that!"

I've pretty much kept my theories to myself since then....people react too negatively to questions like, "Why did WTC 7 fall down?"

[Sequoia]

8. Well, the second I saw Chimp's eyes go dark

with the light of glee in that classroom and Card whispering in his ear, I knew, he knew.

[BlueStateBlue]

16. That was the moment for me, too

As soon as I saw his face after Card whispered in his ear, I thought... OMG he's ACTING concerned. HE KNEW!!!

Prior to that, I remember thinking "if they could put together the pictures and names of all 19 hijackers in about 1 1/2 hours, why the HELL didn't they keep 'em off the friggin planes in the first place!!

:think:

[Sequoia]

180. I woke up startled at 5:45AM in California

and my first thought was, What's happening? Seeing there was no earthquake and the world was dark and silent I fell back asleep until 7:00AM and cut on the tube to turn to Seasame Street for my child and saw the harbor with the smoke and first thought it was the refinery fire in Texas but by turning the channels by hand I saw it again and knew it was New York.

[KlatooBNikto]

9. I know for certain they did it.But if and when his supporters reach that

conclusion, Bush will be elevated to a demi-god status and will be given powers only Gods can dream about.It will be said he defeated terrorism by causing it. Can anyone claim a better legacy than that?

[donkeyotay]

20. Now I'm worried. I think I understand that!

"It will be said he defeated terrorism by causing it."

;-)

[donkeyotay]

10. Dang, you people are quick

I didn't even get suspicious until that crap about finding Atta's passport. Up until then, I was buying it all, and it took awhile after that to really start to think the unthinkable.

[thereismore]

11. It was a different guy's passport, not Atta's. Whatever. nt

[FreedomAngel82]

13. I knew it

after watching F911 and just reading 9/11 truth sites and other documentary films. I wasn't politically active back then and still a bit naive I guess you could say. I didn't really think much about it except it was a horrible event and all that like everybody else.

[Norquist Nemesis]

26. That is at the top of the list of things that bother me.

How convenient is that to find the passport of one of the hi-jackers...who just happens to be a terrorist...and it gets into the hands of the right people...at the right moment...out of a ball of fire...but in tact???

[donkeyotay]

36. It was one of those new-fangled kevlar passports nt

[Norquist Nemesis]

27. Whose was it? n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

147. It was supposedly the passport of Satam al Suqami

[burythehatchet]

29. yep - Atta's passport

until then I was enraged and I was ready to sign up. Even subsequent day after that is a vigil to see the gang at the Hague.

[donkeyotay]

34. thanks for confirming my memory of it

The other thing I remember is all the hoopla after the 19 hijackers were identified and then the Saudis objected - some were still alive, some were commercial pilots -and then the FBI came out with the story about how the hijackers used fake id's.

So, was Atta's one of the ones reported to be fake? After it was reported to be found with his true identify on the sidewalk? wasn't this part of how they knew so much about the hijackers so soon after it was too late?

[burythehatchet]

39. after seeing the fireballs atop the WTC I wondered to

myself how a man's passport would appear in the rubble.

[uppityperson]

44. Another miracle!

[SoCalDem]

99. I HEARD a FEMA guy say they had arrived in NY on Sept 10...

Why were AA and UAL's stock so mysteriously manipulated.. The chart showing it is jaw-dropping.. the money had never been claimed..

Why were TowerII's people told to go back into the building, after so many had already started to evacuate??

and so much more:(

[screembloodymurder]

72. Passport did it for me too.

But I wasn't sure until I saw the video of #7's collapse.

[mopaul]

111. building #7 did it for me too.

i sat here and said to mrs. mo, 'huh uh- no fuckin' way'

[bpilgrim]

136. building #7 ------------ ----------------- ------ > VIDEO

flash video...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/wtc7.swf

peace

[rman]

161. compounded by the fact it's essentially never shown by the MSM

-

[Bravo411]

175. First time I've seen this video

I've seen the others. Although they had been hit by the planes, I can't imagine that it would fall like it did. The upper section would have gone one way or the other, not straight down. It looked more like a controlled demolition.

This one is for sure. There was no damage to the building, yet it completely collapsed.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

75. I personally thought that finding the rental car with those....

...flight manuals was a bit much. If you're going to hijack an airliner and you want to cover your tracks, why leave behind material like that?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

126. Yes, that got me, too

I went through a Robert Ludlum phase in my youth, and the car with the Koran and the flight manual was precisely the type of eidence that was used to incriminate the heroes of Ludlum novels when they got too close to The Truth.

[leftchick]

90. I knew when I saw dipshit** sitting on his ass for 23 minutes after..

I hate to say I gave them even a few minutes of believing they were as shocked as me. And that whole rummy to the rescue shit at the pentagon! That is astonishing in its audacity. I am still sickened.
:(

[malmapus]

98. I'm slowest of all, heck I supported going into Afgan to find Osama

But now, I don't know what I believe anymore...

[Turn CO Blue]

102. The passport belonged to highjacker Satam Al Suqami, not Atta

- Atta's passport was found in a locker somewhere -- but I do agree that it was fishy business (finding a non-burned, non-shredded passport from anyone on the planes just a few blocks from the Towers).


Source:
<http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/passport.html>

cached ABC News story (that says the passport was:
<http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/abc_hunt.html>

According to ABC News and the Associated Press, the passport of hijacker Satam Al Suqami was found a few blocks from the WTC. 1 2 The Guardian was skeptical: "the idea that Atta's passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI's crackdown on terrorism." 3 Note the passport did not belong to Atta, as is commonly claimed.

Satam Al Suqami was supposedly on Flight 11, the plane that hit the North Tower. In that collision, the building's core absorbed almost the entire airplane, which hit the northeast wall nearly dead center.

[MadHound]

14. Yep, me too

Watching the Big Lie, broadcast for all to see. Watching not one, not two, but three building collapse virtually straight down into their own footprint, as neat as any demolition expert could want it. Yeah, that was what got me to thinking Hmmmm.

The Big Lie, right in everybody's face. Yet some still refuse to see.

[thinkingwoman]

19. neater, even

the demolition expert that dropped three buildings with that level of precision is a genius.

I knew right then. And like many other posters, I have never wavered either. Bush knew.

[bamademo]

15. I knew too

I knew it was *'s fault. I just knew. And I remember thinking Clinton would be on television immediately if he were still President, not flying all over the country like a scared little boy.

[WePurrsevere]

17. Actually..

the night Bush was given the 2000 election I said to my husband "OMG no... that b_____ will get us all killed and we'll be at war within two years." When the towers happened I knew it was just the excuse he needed... can't help but still wonder at "conveniently" things worked in his regimes favor.. and I don't buy the God helping him nonsense... the loving Divine I believe in, the Jesus I grew up learning about wouldn't support these policies.

Seems a lot of people *knew* something was up... it's nice to know that there are still some folks out there that have healthly BS meters. ;)

[MuseRider]

18. Have to admit,

my first thought was terrorists but it did not take more than 10-20 minutes before I suspected otherwise. To even think that these people running our country were so suspect, even back then is pretty sickening but I knew they were not above it.

[patcox2]

21. Good of you to admit you pre-judged the case.

And thus, having started out with a bias, were and remain unfit to consider the evidence.

[mopaul]

23. i admit, i'm unfit

[Nostradammit]

154. LMAO!!!

perfect retort.

[bpilgrim]

25. good thing we got the REST of DU, eh?

besides, he's just a political 'artist' wtf does he know, just an ENTERTAINER at best, right? :P

:hi:

peace

[kurtyboy]

169. Would that be the evidence provided by the investigators

Or the evidence they willfully destroyed as quickly as they could?

[uppityperson]

22. When I saw the towers fall I knew

At first I was stunned. Then went on to watch it over and over and said, "they couldn't have done that any better if they'd planned it." And 4 years later I haven't changed my mind one bit either.

Can you imagine having that on your resume when you put in bids for building destruction? Dang they did a good job.

[Carni]

24. Washington Times article/ex bush aide says bldgs were blown up

I know this is a Rev Moon outfit but I still found this rather shocking...not surprising, but shocking none the less.

Link:
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050613-102755-6408r.htm

Exerpt below:

A former Bush team member during his first administration is now voicing serious doubts about the collapse of the World Trade Center on 9-11. Former chief economist for the Department of Labor during President George W. Bush's first term Morgan Reynolds comments that the official story about the collapse of the WTC is "bogus" and that it is more likely that a controlled demolition destroyed the Twin Towers and adjacent Building No. 7. Reynolds, who also served as director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis in Dallas and is now professor emeritus at Texas A&M University said, "If demolition destroyed three steel skyscrapers at the World Trade Center on 9/11, then the case for an 'inside job' and a government attack on America would be compelling."

[napi21]

28. I heard this reported on cnn I think yesterday.

I recall thinking , uh oh, another insider speaks! That's the absolute BEST way to get good info, and one of the reasons ShrubCo has been able to get away with so much...there just haven't been many break ranks!

[Carni]

31. The hoot of the thing is

The whistleblower has pretty esteemed credentials!

I hope there are more people out there with some semblence of decency that will start to sing!

[Hapameli]

96. That was reported on CNN? That it was an inside job??? I KNOW they did it

But honestly, I walked around in a fog for a few years. I wasn't truly convinced until earlier this year, after watching the free DVD from... I think it was reopen911.com

[dogindia]

64. quite suprising...been rumors of moves against

Bushco. Are we starting to see this?.

from Downing Street to 911. Lets see what surfaces in msm.

there are bigger fish than *b and we are talking about oil and power and who and how to control the end of oil.

strange times.

[lumpy]

67. A detailed video I saw on public access TV

certainly supports this theory. Fire alone didn't cause the collapse of the twin towers or the third building that we hear very little about. This info has been hushed up. The debris was hurridly taken away before there could be a real investigation of this tragedy.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

69. I think this is a red herring designed to pull focus away from the....

...real events of 911.

These guys are very good at doing this...there were lots of red herrings that popped up after the JFK assassination.

[Carni]

85. You could be right

I could go either way on why the buildings fell but I am sure that 911 was at the very least a LIHOP

[ozymandius]

170. This is what the boss at Loiseau Controlled Demolition said.

She said it looked just like a controlled demolition.

[Karenina]

30. Yeah, yeah. But l-o-n-g before THAT

I ALSO SAW THIS. November 23, 1963.

[Independent_Liberal]

32. Agreed.

I haven't changed my mind either.

[Nye Bevan]

33. Question for MIHOP folks

If chimpy knew in advance, why would he freeze like a deer in the headlights reading "My Pet Goat" for several minutes and then scamper around the country like a frightened rabbit for the rest of the day? Wouldn't part of the plan be more of an "I'm in charge here" swagger out of there and an immediate "Terrorists don't scare me" trip to Ground Zero? And wouldn't he have prepared a better line than "hunt these folks down"?

Or is this what they want me to think?

[Bluebear]

35. An explanation . . .

And I don't know what HOP or WOP what I am...but if he was complicit, you know when a crime is committed sometimes even the perpetrator is stunned. Frightened rabbit would be the visceral reaction.

[bpilgrim]

37. part of the 'PERFECT' cover

the down side is that it was too scripted... no REACTION & that is a TELL.

if they were truly surprised their would have been a LOT of REACTION going on.

even if HE was too dumb to react, or our Schiavo prez, the SS should have whisked him out of that public, vulnerable event.

peace

[JohnyCanuck]

43. Whatever his reaction was on 9/11, check out this reaction

at a press conference when Dubya was asked what he thought of Howard Dean allegedly musing that he (Dubya) had advance knowledge about 911. (It's a Flash Presentation, not sure how well it works on dial up).

Make sure your speakers are turned up.

How to Spot a Liar courtesy of www.takebackthemedia.com

[info being]

54. Thank you.

[JohnyCanuck]

57. You're welcome

I think I've seen better "disassmebling" by 6 year olds caught in the act with their hands inside the cookie jar.

[Hapameli]

97. The" How to spot a liar" info is totally true! He was LYING!

Bastards....

[BrklynLiberal]

129. cool stuff!

[CJCRANE]

47. Yes -

it's strange that there was no immediate reaction from Bush and Rumsfeld who remained at their pre-arranged engagements. My guess is that around the world billions of people rushed to their internets and TVs to see what was happening as they soon as they heard about it.

It did seem to me like a somewhat incredible event that most people would be curious about, I mean it's not everyday that jumbo jets ram into the tallest buildings in America.

(I know I was mesmerized by it and watched the footage on CNN for hours on end).

[CJCRANE]

49. Another tell...

at the 9/11 memorial last year, there a was picture where everyone had their hands on their hearts, except he had his hand on his stomach.

[noamnety]

115. That was just funny timing

He had his hand over his heart, but the still was snapped as he was bringing his down a fraction of a second before other people.

(I will admit to knowingly spreading that photo around a bit to annoy some republicans, but really it wasn't like he was standing with his hand over his gut the whole time.)

[CJCRANE]

173. Oh right, thanks, didn't realise!

[Nye Bevan]

61. but even if the reaction WAS scripted...

I find it hard to believe that the scriptwriter would pen the words "freeze, remain in classroom for 7 minutes reading 'My Pet Goat' "

[bpilgrim]

62. let me spell it out... the ALIBI called for them to be SURPRISED, who'da

THUNK IT.

how ELSE can they explain us getting HIT like that with jets on ALERT all over our land but ESPECIALLY DC and the EAST COAST.

we we're caught OFF GUARD is KEY to the WHOLE SCRIPT and innocent chimpy play'n DUMB in a school room, in front of MANY CAMERAS, showing him, unawares and not at the switches ORCHESTRATING the HORRID EVENT was his ROLE to play and he played it to the hilt and that is STILL the official story which by now most of America is waking up to the SCAM.

:hi:

peace

[Nye Bevan]

73. Thanks

For me, the administration's reckless indifference, negligence, stupidity and incompetence is a more believable explanation for 9/11 than MIHOP/LIHOP.

But thanks anyway for your replies.

[LunaC]

150. If you have a minute

I'd appreciate hearing your comments after reading the link in my sig line.

[BrklynLiberal]

130. Or maybe the planners all around him did not let him in on the details..

and he REALLY was surprised. Would not surprise me if they kept him in the dark.

[bpilgrim]

134. IF 'he REALLY was surprised' why NO REACTION

thats the TELL.

no one can say for certain how they would have REACTED in his shoes... we just ALL know, we REACTED and we were 'SHOCKED-n-AWED'

as anyone, not in on it, would be.

peace

[BrklynLiberal]

165. Sorry.. I meant dumbfounded. That is his version of surprised.

Andrew card probably whispered in his ear. "Sit tight, the second plane hit the WTC."
There is nothing in that cranium that would allow for the usual response of normal surprise that the rest of us would have.
Running thru his head at the time: "Holy shit, what the hell do I do now?!"

[Media_Lies_Daily]

74. The events had to be allowed to play out for maximum media....

...exposure. Herr Busch was buying time to allow this to happen.

Additionally, the fact that the second plane hit the second tower about 15 minutes after the first impact also indicates that this event was planned for maximum media exposure. By the time the second plane hit, every camera in New York City was trained on the first burning tower, and all the major networks had broken into scheduled broadcasting.

And then the attack on the Pentagon took place, adding to the terror.

What caused an unplanned delay was the fact that the fourth plane was delayed while taking off, otherwise Herr Busch could have been on television blaming the terrorists much quicker. They couldn't wait any longer and had that plane shot down...which was clearly indicated by the eight mile trail of debris including an engine to the final impact of Flight 93.

[mopaul]

105. in prime time on good morning america

all the stuff that went down that day really smells

[Carni]

92. It's like the invasion of Iraq

Bush put out the word that we would invade and that *they* would make it happen--I will bet that bush personally was not told that there would be a forged memo about Niger uranium and whatever other crap they made up.

I believe that the attacks on 911 were organized in much the same way...Bush said "make it happen" his little henchmen ran around plotting and planning and made it happen.

Perhaps even bush was surprised at what he had "made happen" that September morning in that Florida classroom.

[mopaul]

106. if they lied about a war, what the hell else could they lie about?

it's starting to sink in with a lot of people

[Carni]

109. They have virtually lied about EVERYTHING for 5 years

This admin is the worst in the history of this country.

[noamnety]

176. I don't find it hard to believe

I can see the script writers telling Bush to stall, make the most out of the visit, like you can't get away. And moran Bush thinking "how to stall, how to stall - I know, I'll keep reading this book."

Considering Cheney and Rumsfeld's actions that day, it's more believable to me that their inactions were coordinated than it is for me to believe the entire gaggle of them individually thought "I know, I'll just sit here and do nothing."

Bush? Maybe. He's a dullard. But Cheney? You really think Cheney would sit there in a stupor watching tv until secret service literally dragged him out of his office?

[KurtNYC]

45. Even Rupert Murdoch says....

[Nye Bevan]

60. That Post front page tends to endorse a LIHOP argument

-- he was warned of possible hijackings and did nothing. Or alternatively, this could support the viewpoint that he allowed 9/11 to happen through reckless negligence and incompetence (not sure if there is an acronym for that).

[DearAbby]

70. Answer to MathGuy

If chimpy knew in advance, why would he freeze like a deer in the headlights reading "My Pet Goat" for several minutes...<<<


Think about it, an attack on the country is in progress and I would expect the Secret Service to whisk Bush off to a secure location...afterall it could have been a larger plot. More planes involved over a length of time...HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT BUSH WOULD NOT BE A TARGET? I actually think he sat there, because at that moment it was not plans in ink on a document, it was real. I honestly think he had an OMG it's really happening moment.

Actually, I sat watching the buildings burning, just seeing the second airliner hit the south tower...in the back of my mind I knew that building would collapse...When it did, I was not surprised, what actually went through my mind "Funny, it fell like those buildings you see on the news, demollishing old store buildings downtown." then seeing the other fall almost the same...like it fell ontop itself like a controlled collapse.

That had always nagged me...but like the rest of america, I was in denial. Somehow thought America was different, special, and we as a country would not elect a people that would stoop to such things. Somehow the presidency was sealed against evil...what a maroon!

[mwb970]

123. I have recently rethought the "Pet Goat" sequence.

Now I think that he knew there was such a plan. When he heard the news he thought "My God, they actually did it. Now what?"

[Hailtothechimp]

149. I think Andy Card tells us something.

If you watch the Booker School video, it is beyond any possibility the he could say anything informative in the LESS THAN 2 SECONDS that he whispered something. Watch it and see how much you could get out in that short of a period. And remember, he also steps away without getting any response or orders about what to do.

My guess is that there was a code ("the eagle has landed" or some such thing) that was given to him during the vacation at the ranch in August-September of 2001. He was told what would happen, and given the code for when it was carried out. It can't be anything else.

[catzies]

80. * personally kept out of some loops for plausible deniability. But Poppy

stayed overnight in the White House on 9/11 (* was in FL with brother Jeb) and left for a Carlyle Group shareholders' meeting. * was in FL for an alibi, but the men running the show were in DC.

* is not the evil mastermind you are looking for, to paraphrase Star Wars. ;)

[AntiCoup2K4]

139. Also at that Carlye Group meeting in DC on 9-11-01

One of Osama Bin Laden's brothers. What a coincidence.

Kinda like Poppy & Nixon both being in Dallas on 11-22-63 :grr:

[catzies]

140. Poppy I knew, Nixon I didn't. Good thing I believe in coincidences.

I'm no :tinfoilhat: er, nosiree. It's all just a whole lot of coincidences.

[Carni]

88. Like Reagan/I think bushit was only told a tiny portion of the story

He was deliberately kept out of the loop to a vast degree (I mean as to the details ahead of time)that way if everything was exposed later the trail wouldn't lead back to him...JMO

[Hippo_Tron]

132. Personally, I think that LIHOP is MUCH more likely

Intentionally coordinating an attack like that would be difficult (although with the Bush/Saudi connection, it seems much less difficult). I think that if MIHOP were going on, there would've been a whistle blower eventually. Not everybody in the intelligence community has political loyalties, Richard Clarke is living proof of that. I think Clarke was dead on in his testimony. Basically, we don't know whether the Bush administration intentionally let it happen or not. Only Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Condi, etc. know that. But we do know that either way, it could've been prevented. So either the Bush administration are criminals who are responsible for the death of 2000+ people, or they are incompetent fools who are responsible for the death of 2000+ people.

I'll emphasize again that the only problem I see with a conspiracy is that somewhere down the chain of command, nonpartisan non-political people would have to have been involved. This might not be the case now (as they have replaced all of the top ranking military officials with hacks who lick Rumsfeld's ass), but back in 2001 Bush didn't have the political clout to do this, especially with a Democratic controlled Senate.

[Fight_n_back]

38. The thing thats keeps me in doubt is the little ones stupidity

If he and his group had planned 9-11 then it would have been an utter failure. They probably would have hit the wrong buildings or hijacked planes from a defunct airline like TWA.

Why weren't the planes scrambled? They were for Payne Stewart's plane.
Why was EVERY warning sign ignored?
What happened in the enrgy task force meeting?


I could lean toward LIHOP but MIHOP implies far more competanc than this confederacy of dunces had applied to anyhting so far.

[info being]

50. Not true. These guys are good at destroying and looting.

Their weakness is in governing and building.

[bpilgrim]

55. he is just FOLLOWING a SCRIPT

that he is UNAWARES of, i believe... simular to the Manchurian candidate but much more subtle.

however, i also believe a STAND DOWN order WAS GIVIN as well as other IMPROPER orders or NOTHING would have touched the PENTAGON almost 2 hours AFTER the first attack.

:hi:

peace

[Media_Lies_Daily]

76. That's what they want you to think.

[Goldmund]

87. Amen.

[Nye Bevan]

77. I agree

I would find it difficult to credit chimp & his henchmen with the kind of evil ingenuity that would be needed to pull off something like MIHOP and keep all of the many consipirators silent. Incompetence and negligence are much more believable.

[Goldmund]

86. They are NOT stupid.

They only put Chimp up front to MAKE YOU think they're stupid, and make the stupid think they're like them.

This is a trap that liberals constantly fall into. AND one of the reasons they built it is EXACTLY what you're saying here -- economy sucks, oops, we fucked up! No WMDs? oops! 9/11? Shit! Quagmire? Fuck!

It's all a part of their plans. They don't work for US national interests, but for the interests of the corporate elite.

[Carni]

94. I personally think they DID screw up

If the radios hadn't been non-functional after the first plane hit
from what I have read I think that everyone in the south tower could have been safely evacuated.

Most of the deaths that occcurred in the WTC were occupants of that south tower.

I don't think this bunch of idiots realized they would have that many people dying. As per usual IMO they miscalculated.

[Individualist]

113. The chimp is only a puppet of PNAC

Why else would you think he never appears in public without an earpiece in place. The PNAC cabal is the puppetmaster and is far from being a confederacy of dunces.

[rman]

162. the Incompetence Theory is one of the things that keeps me convinced

Seriously, if they really are *that* stupid, then why haven't they all been fired a long time ago?

It's not like being *that* incompetent makes it all ok, does it?

[TheUnspeakable]

40. My first thought was-this wouldn't be happening..

if Gore was president. Then I did some research and thought- he LET it happen on purpose. Then i did some more research and.. can you say MIHOP MIHOP MIHOP !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mnemosyne]

41. With you mo! And when I saw the Pentagon

I remember saying to all "Where is the wreckage!!? Why isn't the lawn messed up?!"

Karma, not instant, but guaranteed, will get them!!

[Straight Shooter]

46. What convinced me was his claim he saw the first plane hit the Tower.

Then when I learned no way could he have seen the first hit at the time he claimed he did, I thought to myself he must have seen a video simulation in the planning stages, and that's what he was remembering. I thought perhaps his bizarre response in the classroom was due to the "OMG we've actually done it" effect as the enormity of it sank in. He soon got over that, though, didn't he?

No one will ever convince me that bush and his gang would not be willing to sacrifice a few thousand Americans to achieve their ultimate goal. We aren't "real" to him and them. We don't exist except to serve their cause.

I was once in the LIHOP. Having watched events unfold in remarkable coincidences for bush since September 11, I am now in the MIHOP camp. He had a hand in it. He surely did.

[bpilgrim]

53. i think it was part of the script... he just repeated the meme of the day

remember, when 'EVERYONE' thought it was 'JUST A TERRIBLE ACCIDENT' when they heard about the first plane?

that was all part of the COVER and something they knew most would embrace... trouble is, as you pointed out, his SLIP UP, something that was IMPOSSIBLE for him to witness, D'oh!

but we all know how he wanders off script from time to time...


like the time, just after that HORRID DAY, when he spoke hopefully and reassuringly to us that 'just think, with all our great tech we will someday very soon be able to REMOTELY CONTROL the planes so we never experiance..." till he was interrupted by his handlers tugging on his jacket to get him to STFU :nuke:

another recent TELL re the ILLEGAL Iraq war & when confronted with the DSM info, he pointed to him self when referring to Saddam's misdeeds in the run-up to war.

these are the CRAZIES we are dealing with... it's a strangelovian admin bent on world resource domination.

my only question is... will they go quietly, ala NIXON, or will we need HAND-CUFFS :shrug:

:hi:

peace

[toymachines]

116. seriously

i cant see this admin leaving peaceful. this country has a wonderful history of peaceful transitions of power, i just dont see them giving it up. bastards.

[caraher]

82. We know for sure his gang is willing to sacrifice American lives...

Iraq proves it

[info being]

51. I'm as sure about Bush Admin complicity in 9/11...

as I am about the fact that they lied and lied to get us into the Iraq War. There's more than enough evidence and likelihood for each to be true.

The problem is it makes you sound nutty to say these things in public...and that's why they were able to get away with it. It is so absurd that it is unthinkable to most decent people.

[CJCRANE]

56. "Absurd"

is the word Tony Blair used last year in the David Kelly/Andrew Gilligan affair when he was accused of "sexing up" (fixing) the pre-Iraq war intelligence.

[bpilgrim]

59. and the word we now use to describe the GULAG charges against US

the BIG LIE is hard for NORMAL folks to get their minds around.

thats why it's good to start out with LIHOP first :evilgrin:

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[mopaul]

63. any speculation other than the official story is RIDICULED

and then DISMISSED.

[nolabels]

65. Bush Admin complicity in 9/11

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

[donheld]

66. Ok it took me a while longer

but i soon make that call, and i've never wavered from it.

[earth mom]

71. I'm pissed that it took me so long to figure it out!

Like over 2 years! Like Duh! But once I found out about the probability of LIHOP or MIHOP, it ALL fell into place instantly. I'm convinced it was MIHOP at this point because it's obvious that the BFEE wanted this to happen very badly...everything hinged on it and so it HAD to happen. No way were they gonna go with a "let it happen" scenario while they watched and waited. :grr:

[Talismom]

79. LIHOP and MIHOP

Forgive my ignorance--I'm new here--but what do these mean?
I've been saying that this group of thugs planned and carried off 9/11 and I've been taking such grief for it for the last couple years! It's been so comforting to see that I'm not alone! Now how the heck do we get rid of them? Yesterday Randi Rhodes described evidence that Brown and Root got huge contracts to build GITMO in June of 2000! Before 9/11! Found the contracts of a DOD web site!

[caraher]

84. Welcome Talismom!

Cool name! :)

LIHOP/MIHOP = "Let/Made It Happen On Purpose"

[earth mom]

89. Welcome to DU Talismom!

LIHOP = Let it happen on purpose
MIHOP = Make it happen on purpose

Yeah, there are a lot of people in denial over this and some that plain out just don't want to see it discussed so openly....but I believe that 911 is the KEY to everything and would certainly be Dubyas downfall if enough people knew about it.

:tinfoilhat:

Check out the DU September 11th Forum here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

[Talismom]

101. Thank you for the nice welcome

TheGoldenRule--if only more folks in power believed in it!

[earth mom]

124. That's one reason why I choose it for a user name.

:)

[bigwillq]

110. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Goldmund]

78. Aye.

Me three.

[leftofthedial]

81. you and me both, buddy

M


I



H



O



P

[Heddi]

83. Me too, MoPaul

I lived in Seattle and had just moved out here 2 months (to the day!) earlier when 9/11 happened.

Hubby and I were asleep when the attacks happened. The phone kept ringing, but our machine wasn't hooked up to take messages. I thought to myself "Why would someone be calling about a resume at 7am?" (hubby was looking for a job at the time).

After about the 8th phone call in 30 minutes, I decided to go ahead and wakeup for work. I was in the living room and just as I was turning on the TV, the phone rang again. It was my mother in law. She said 'Turn on the TV. Planes have been hijacked and they're flying into buildings and blowing up all over the place". As she said this, CNN had just come on the TV and I saw the twin towers. I was frantically calling my husband into the room "Oh my god! Oh my god Mark come in quick quick"

My sister in law lived in DC at the time. Thankfully she was alright. I tried for hours to get in touch with my mom in South Carolina, but the lines were down and couldn't get through to her until about 6pm.

At any rate, as we sat there that morning, glued to the television, I said outloud "They've done it. They've fucking done it. Everything's going to be different now" and when I said "they", both I and my husband knew I meant "The Government".

I NEVER, never for a fucking minute thought that this was a foreign attack. We KNEW it was a precursor to war. We KNEW this was done for some other purpose, for some grand, previously laid out plan and purpose.

When I said "Things are going to be different now" I had no idea how different things would be.

I have to say that for many weeks after 9/11, I suffered severe anxiety that another attack would happen, this time on the West Coast. I couldn't stand to be alone at the house. I didn't like to shower alone. I didn't like to be out of reach of a phone. I didn't like that my husband and I didn't have cellphones to reach each other. I was a basketcase and would literally jump every time I heard a siren (which was often, since we lived within about 5 blocks of 4 hospitals).

I knew they did it then. I know they did it now. I was never unsure, and as the facts of the case came spilling out in the hours and days after 9/11, my knowledge was just solidified.

I remember when they found the car in the airport parking garages---you know, the one with the Arabic Flight Manuals and Koran in the trunk. Hubby and I just looked at each other, rolled our eyes and said 'Gee...fucking amazing they didn't find a note, in arabic, saying 'Hey guys! We did it! nah nah nah".

The fact that millions of people bought into this really badly scripted drama just amazes me and only solidifies my belief that 99% of the population are nothing more than fucking morons with the IQ of a garden slug.

[Talismom]

103. That's some story

Heddi and I am so impressed at your insights. I've been saying that they planned it for a couple years now, but I'm still being called a conspiracy theorist here. Even if it's never proven to the general public, I'll go to my grave knowing that these thugs and fascists were more than willing to sacrice many more than 3000 lives for their filthy goals. And given how NYC has always hated them, what better a target?

I live in the Bronx, NYC and learned about it as I came out of the school where I voted in the NYC mayoral election. Everyone was huddling around in groups and one of them told me about it. I took my twins to preschool and drove across the Bronx to work and it was so eeery! It was a beautiful day and you wouldn't have even known of the horror only a few miles away, except for the caravans of ambulances roaring across major intersections on their way downtown from the well-to-do Westchester 'burbs.

I'm a "typical, east-coast liberal" (whatever that is), and have never even wanted to hold or use a gun. But I'm not dead or cowardly and I don't believe that most of us would refuse a "chicken-hawk" hunt invitation if it came to that-like if they push a draft and come after our kids.

[mopaul]

108. "Things are going to be different now"...they are proceeding with the plan

my emotions exactly. i'm still not quite over it obviously.

[bobbieinok]

91. worried about no interception, finding passport and stuff in cars.....

then thinking later about W's (non)reaction

but the final proof for me is the adm blocking any investigation for so long, then choosing compromised people for the 911 commission

compare that to the investigation of the Columbia disaster....immediate reaction, much more money and time allocated to the investigation

[gauguin57]

93. I knew it when I read the pre-9/11 PNAC manifesto, which said

... the neocons' agenda in Iraq might not be feasible unless there were some "Pearl Harbor-like event."

That moment, I got the chills. I knew it was the Bushies (and their henchmen). And I knew why Cheney CHOSE HIMSELF as the v.p. nominee in 2000 -- he's the PNAC liaison to the White House.

These guys make the Nixon Administration look like a bunch of little girls on a church picnic!

[pie]

95. Took me six weeks to figure out they MIHOP

Once I sorted thru all the facts
I felt stupid it had not come to me sooner.
I wasn't hip to DU yet, I had to solve the puzzle on my own.

[glitch]

100. I knew at the first tower hit - after the supreme court came out 12/12/00

I knew they were shooting the moon. The hit on the first tower just confirmed it.
I did expect a better cover-up, but I guess they don't feel like they have to bother, what with owning the media and all.

[mirrera]

104. The Coincidence Theorists Guide to 911 is awesome...

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html

Read Crossing the Rubicon, for the whole "who done it".
I love DU, the only place to speak what is common sense in our hearts and heads!


www.nobullshirt.com

[preciousdove]

107. Knew of it before -- recognized it immediately

I watched the (s)election on Cspan and joined some yahoo groups at that time TrustthePeople, CitizensforLegitimateGovt and Voter and there were a huge number of professional people on those lists and referenced in links that I haven't heard from since. The archives of those lists were hacked about once a week. (This all pre911)

1. Someone pointed to evidence that Arab foreigners were training at flight schools and inquiries were being thwarted by someone in the US government. (even before Mossoui).

2. Someone who had posted other information that turned out to be true said that there was a civil war going on in the intelligence community and the outcome could be very, very bad if the "bad guys" won. (Evidently they did).

3. Everything Bush said and did in his very early foreign policy was provoking war.

4. I was pulling up obituaries out of the stacks at the local library and two people behind me were discussing that Roosevelt knew in advance about Pearl Harbor (someone knew but there was a real breakdown in communications as far as I have been able to tell.) and did nothing. I told them that they needed to consider the source because Hurst and other rich newspaper owners hated Roosevelt and did make up lies about him to discredit him. (I know he wasn't perfect either). They did listen to what I said but I wish I had asked what made them investigate that day to see where their information was coming from.

[EVDebs]

112. When I found out about Ptech and the cover-up that goes with it

I became convinced. www.madcowprod.com and www.fromthewilderness.com have been providing the information that M$M dared not. With wargames Vigilant Warrior etc. going on on 9-11-01 and the NORAD 'standdown' and with the treatment of Lt. Col. Steve Butler, who spoke out about Bush immediately after 9-11, we all are getting a better clearer picture of what this crowd is all about.

[Must_B_Free]

114. I knew in 1991

when HW came to Penn State and penned up all the protestors off camera, invited in only young republicans and piped in fake applause to cover the protest and give the false impression to TV viewers that Penn State supported him.

This is just an extension of that same fraud.

In 2000 I told a friend that if W got elected we would be at war.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. Next you'll be trying to tell me that Oswald was a patsy

:o

[alfredo]

118. My first impression was that it

was a business deal gone terribly wrong.

[slybacon9]

119. This administration got EVERYTHING it ever wanted out of that one event...

What does that tell you?

They are the only people to benefit from 9-11. And when i say benefit i mean profit. Multi billion dollar profit. Including re election, media silence, complete control of the military, omnipotent rule over the citizens of this country... and the power of FEAR to weild like Darth Vader over anyone who might stand up and disagree.

IF you are a greedy-oil tycoon-politician whose family has a long history of shady shit, and someone comes up with a plan that will grant you complete and ultimate power as well as billions of dollars, and all it will cost is 3000 American lives, what do you do?

You look the other way.

Conspiracy theory? NO. It's a fucking fact.

[Beam Me Up]

120. 9/11: An INSIDE Job. We are all VICTIMS of a mass deception.

And, like you, I KNEW from day one.

[LibraLiz1973]

121. Things gnaw away at you

If they were planning to go to Iraq prior to 9/11 (and let's face it- we all know they were) 9/11 or something like it was the ONLY guarantee. The entire country went nuts in the space of 2 hours.

In reading the 9/11 Commission report the one thing that really sticks out is how out of the loop Bush was, which was creating havoc with the FAA & the orders to shoot down. Also, why the slllloooowwww pace to remove Bush from that classroom? And how about that stunted reaction. He looked like he was EXPECTING it. Like "Oh, that happened today? But I wanted to go on vacation!"

Then you have the fact that within mere hours they had photos of all 19 hijackers. And within a day or so they had someones passport. And video of Atta going through security. A car loaded with maps & other info! (How convenient) And then the heretofore unbelievably inept government had the whole case solved within hours! (even though they managed not to share information for years) They knew what flight schools they attended, where they lived, what kind of toilet paper they preferred.

The building collapse perfectly. Not as many deaths at the Pentagon, because by some MIRACLE they hit a part of the building that had been under construction. Or the plane coming down in PA- avoiding any more building catastrophes.

The whole thing is nuts.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

122. Just like the case against Oswald.

[JohnyCanuck]

138. Ex Huffman Manager: Ask yourself, "How'd they get here so soon?"

And here's my fascination: for an agency which, before 9/11, appeared clueless that members of al Qaeda were training at flight schools, the FBI inexplicably and immediately knew, upon the attacks, which flight schools al Qaeda members had attended. And this was long before suspects should have been identified.

Venice Florida's Huffman Aviation was the principal flight school used by Mohammed Atta and associates, though used for what is a good question, as Atta was already a pilot. (The best answer may be a familiar one to students of deep politics: trafficking narcotics.) A former Huffman manager told investigative journalist Daniel Hopsicker that a carload of FBI agents pulled up outside his house in the middle of the day, on the day of the attack.

"They were outside my house four hours after the attack," he says in Welcome to Terrorland. Hopsicker writes that "they didn't strong-arm him to make him think harder and cough up some useful leads, but to ensure he kept his mouth shut."

<snip>

"These guys (Atta et al) were double agents.... I gleaned early on that the operation I was working for had government protection. They were let into this country. How did the FBI get here so soon? Ask yourself: How'd they get here so soon?"

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/06/sound-of-one-hand-slapping.html#comments

[bmbmd]

125. Proud to be an original

ten per center. Just wondering where I can find the bumper sticker.

[bpilgrim]

137. of the Grassy-Knoll-Society

http://images.globalfreepress.com

peace

[mopaul]

160. from jfk, to this very day

we know what fucking time it is.

[BrklynLiberal]

127. My EXACT thoughts at that moment as well.....

everything I have heard since has only reinforced my inital impression.
MIHOP!

[peekaloo]

128. I wondered, out loud, "where are our intelligence agencies, what

with his Daddy's CIA connections......". I remember feeling quite ill.

[mitchum]

133. ...that I was in for a lot of jingoistic and sentimental horseshit

[Hippo_Tron]

135. Honestly, I'm still not 100% sure what the fuck happened

But that's because I question EVERYTHING. Out of all the scenarios that I've thought about, LIHOP seems the most likely.

[mopaul]

156. none of us are, that's the beauty of it. we didn't buy the official story

they had the official story all worked out, and have stuck to it ever since. we know better, we have brains.

[Hippo_Tron]

179. The reluctance to form the 9/11 commission was very suspicious

Personally, the person I agree with most about the issue is Richard Clarke. Clarke was a non-partisan official who had little to nothing to gain from his testimony. My guess is that he even pissed off a lot of people who would've given him good jobs in the private sector.

Like I said I can't prove LIHOP or MIHOP, but according to some pretty decent evidence, the administration was incompetent AT BEST. After that it's all speculation and LIHOP is not hard to speculate.

[mopaul]

181. no one was fired, many were promoted & given medals of honor

makes you go hhhhmmmmm. and remember when bush and cheney both called daschle and told him not to delve too deeply into 9/11? why the hell would they do that? very suspicious all the way around.

[Rabrrrrrr]

142. I knew it as I was walking away from the world trade center,

and there were no jets in the sky, and I started contemplating "What series - what very long series - of fuckups have to happen for this to happen? And what are the chances of those fuckups happening accidentally?"

I called a friend on my long walk home, a former marine (and sadly, an idiot republican), and I remember saying, "Someone at the CIA is gonna get their ass chewed out." But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it would also have to be someone at the NSA, someone at the FBI, and people at a whole host of places that needed their asses chewed out.

There's just no way that all those places could have been asleep at the wheel.

Hell, if you just play the numbers, there's a 99.9% chance that asshole, or his administration, or both, are at least complicit.

There is, as far as I am concerned, a 100% chance they knew, and probably a 100% chance that they guaranteed that the CIA, NSA, FBI, and every other intelligence group, were asleep at the wheel.

[Minstrel Boy]

144. "We got lucky"

From my blog, here:

For an agency which, before 9/11, appeared clueless that members of al Qaeda were training at flight schools, the FBI inexplicably and immediately knew, upon the attacks, which flight schools al Qaeda members had attended. And this was long before suspects should have been identified.

Venice Florida's Huffman Aviation was the principal flight school used by Mohammed Atta and associates, though used for what is a good question, as Atta was already a pilot. (The best answer may be a familiar one to students of deep politics: trafficking narcotics.) A former Huffman manager told investigative journalist Daniel Hopsicker that a carload of FBI agents pulled up outside his house in the middle of the day, on the day of the attack.

"They were outside my house four hours after the attack," he says in Welcome to Terrorland. Hopsicker writes that "they didn't strong-arm him to make him think harder and cough up some useful leads, but to ensure he kept his mouth shut."

The shaken source had quit Huffman because he'd found the workplace to be something else than he'd expected. Something, well, spooky: "I had to leave and get out. I wish I didn't know as much as I know. I told them they had nothing to fear from me."

What did he know?

"These guys {Atta et al} were double agents.... I gleaned early on that the operation I was working for had government protection. They were let into this country. How did the FBI get here so soon? Ask yourself: How'd they get here so soon?"

And note: when he says "here," he doesn't mean Huffman Aviation; he means his own house. So, only four hours after the attack, the FBI didn't merely know enough to visit Atta's flight school; it knew enough to visit the home of a former employee of Atta's flight school who had quit because he suspected Atta and his cadres were double agents. It wasn't investigating the attacks, it was intimidating witnesses.

In the August 25, 2003 edition of The New York Observer, author Gail Sheehy recounts an exchange following a formal meeting between senior FBI agents and the 9/11 widows known as the "Jersey Girls." Kristen Breitweiser was having difficulty reconciling something:

"I don’t understand, with all the warnings about the possibilities of Al Qaeda using planes as weapons, and the Phoenix Memo from one of your own agents warning that Osama bin Laden was sending operatives to this country for flight-school training, why didn’t you check out flight schools before Sept. 11?"

"Do you know how many flight schools there are in the US? Thousands," a senior agent protested. "We couldn’t have investigated them all and found these few guys."

"Wait, you just told me there were too many flight schools and that prohibited you from investigating them before 9/11," Kristen persisted. "How is it that a few hours after the attacks, the nation is brought to its knees, and miraculously FBI agents showed up at Embry-Riddle flight school in Florida where some of the terrorists trained?"

"We got lucky," was the reply.

Amazing, isn't it, how the FBI's luck changed?

[OrlandoGator]

145. The order to shoot the second plane had to come direct from SecDef.

He must have refused to give the order.

[mopaul]

157. the plane shot down in Penn. was probably headed for building #7

which later self imploded that afternoon.

[rman]

164. But no-one up high needs to give the order to intercept,

because interception is standard procedure when a plane goes off-course and does not reply to communication and/or turns of its responder.

Yet there was no interception untill it was way to late. At least part of the explanation is that many military planes were involved in *multiple* war games that were going that day, which is very odd in and of itself because it is an excellent way to make the nation defenseless.

[OrlandoGator]

166. That is not true. The NORAD procedure was changed 3 months before 9/11.

Before, there was an automatic response to derelict aircraft. After this memo was distributed, hijacked or otherwise out-of-control commercial aircraft could only be shot down with direct authorization of the Secretary of Defense:

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/norad/docs/intercept_proc.pdf

[rman]

172. "intercept", "shot down"; difference?

-

[OrlandoGator]

174. You have to intercept in order to shoot down.

Essentially it's the same thing.

[rman]

177. Not the same thing since you can intercept without shooting down.

That's why no order from up high is needed for interception.

One thing is for sure: if you don't intercept then you cannot shoot down.

All this is rather obvious.
Why do you put forth such nihilistic crooked arguments?

[rman]

178. Not the same thing since you can intercept without shooting down.

That's why no order from up high is needed for interception.

One thing is for sure: if you don't intercept then you cannot shoot down.

All this is rather obvious.
Why do you put forth such nihilistic crooked arguments?

[leesa]

146. I knew it when they found the passport in the rubble. Knew for certain it

was a plant and a massive con job. Have no doubt it was a BushCo job.

[mopaul]

158. oh look, Atta's wallet! that proves it! now let's just drop it.

gimmee a break. amazing how so many people sucked it right up.

[porkrind]

148. I agree. MIHOP.

The griffith video brings up a lot of good points. So does the 9/11 timeline. There are so many things that only make sense by a MIHOP explaination. Bastards.

[wiggs]

153. Reportedly, Bruce Springstein

...was in concert a day or two afterwards and cautioned the audience to think for themselves, not listen blindly to government.

Are you also a 60's kid?

[mopaul]

155. born in 51

so yeah, 60's kid. jfk's murder affected me deeply at age 12, been a paranoid schizo ever since.

[Daphne08]

163. When I saw both buildings fall, I became suspicious

since I'd seen so many planned demolitions.

[Galley_Queen]

167. My Very First Thought Was

...Bush.

Not Osama, not Saddam, but BushCo.

I believe history will prove me correct.

[apple_ridge]

171. Our local rag, The Portland Press Herald published a few

stories about Atta right after 9/11, where they interviewed numerous local business owners who stated that Atta was a regular customer and had been around for quite some time. He even had a girlfriend that they managed to track down.

The "official story" has it that his stay in Portland was a one time affair, happening the night of 9/10.

Odd....