Beginning to Feel Like a Fool

[Stevendsmith]

For allowing myself to think the DSM would have tangible and positive consequences.

I thought I learned my lesson with Plame, the August 6 PDB, no WMD, etc.

It must be an innate human will to belief that keeps me coming back for more punishment.

I know this sounds defeatist, I don’t give a shit. We're dealing with a massive rigging of the system that no Democratic hearing can change.

I can feel the air going out of this puppy as we speak.

Fuck, I hate these bastards.

[Just Me]

1. I feel a huge storm brewin'

BushCo & the neoCONs will NOT be able to stop it!!!

[in_cog_ni_to]

4. DITTO! This is a tsunami!

They are goin' DOWN!

[bpilgrim]

24. EARTHSHAKES in DC --------------- --------------- --------> MP3

just the last 30 min or so from todays DSM hearings but it was INCREDIBLE
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/DSM/end-of-DSM-hearing.mp3

peace

[Stevendsmith]

5. God, I hope you're right

But how many predicted storms have been light drizzles at best? Christ, this shit has been going on for over four years now.

[napi21]

2. You could be right, but I think it deserves a chance.

If it was up to the MSM, you'd be right, but it no longer is. Look at all the cable news shows who have spots about what the bloggers are posting! Look at how we managed to convince cspan to air this hearing on cspan3 and re-air it tomorrow in prime time.

I don't want to give you false hope, but I think you should give this a chance before throwing in the towel.

[kansasblue]

3. Really?

I'm listening and feel just the opposite. 122 Congressional signatures. 540,000 public signatures. Congressional forum underway. Being carried live on CSPAN.

All smiles here.

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. AND most important...NIGHTLINE is there!!!!!!!

and ALL the Corporate Media are there! :bounce:

[Goldmund]

6. Why now?

Why, specifically, are you feeling like that right now? Did you expect Bush to hang himself when he hears the thunderous voice of Conyers or something??

[Stevendsmith]

9. I guess I feel the thing will climax today and then decline

It's been the pattern.

Maybe it's just a defense mechanism.

We've been screwed so many times.

I know, I need to change my attitude.

[Ariana Celeste]

16. This won't be the last hearing..

It's hard as hell to have a good attitude about all this... we have had so many "smoking guns". But this is far more serious. There are a lot more people actually working together on this (for once) and I imagine as it gains more weight there will be more and more to help this stay out in the open.

[housewolf]

26. Remember - Watergate

It took 2 yrs for the whole Watergate story to be uncovered. These things take their time, nothing is going to happen overnight or as fast as you or I might like. This thing is going to take months, especially because Congress has a 4th of July recess coming up and then a 5 or 6 week break over August and Labor Day. Things move very slowly in Washington over the summer.

Take heart in progress, however slow it might be. Each step is a step forward and today is a HUGE JUMP forward. Imagine - Congressional Reps delivering petitions with 560,000 signatures on them! More than a half a million! All of the media except Fox news covered the event today!

This is REAL. It's happening.

[Stevendsmith]

37. Very sound reasoning. I needed that.

Patience is needed.

[BurtWorm]

8. This Congress will not impeach or even investigate Bush.

Everyone should get that fantasy out of their heads. Now: With lowered expectations, imagine Democrats retaking the House in 2006. With that scenario, Bush could wind up investigated, if not impeached (or indicted!). A Dem House in 2006 is what we've got to make happen, or Bush will never taste an ounce of justice.

[Stevendsmith]

10. That's the key: A Rethug-Dominated Congress Will Not Act

I mean, what offical actions are we expecting out of this?

[BurtWorm]

17. I'm only expecting the media to get pressured

into keeping this on the burner. Ideally the insider in London will keep feeding the papers with strategically timed leaks of memos and minutes. Ray McGovern has put out a call to whistleblowers in US intelligence to feed the papers here. They have to last through to election day, unfortunately, which seems like a long way away.

[Dr Fate]

27. True- but we can force them to make excuses to WHY they wont investigate.

And that will make them look like liars, hair-splitters & hypocrites- just in time for '06.

[BurtWorm]

28. Yes. The pressure has to be on from here till the House is Democratic

again.

[redqueen]

11. You shouldn't beat yourself up for having hope.

:pals:

Hope is a good thing, when accompanied by action.

Call some outlets, and let them know what's on your mind:

Activists Resource Thread

[Stevendsmith]

20. Your right. Good Advice. Thanks. (EOM)

[Barad Simith]

12. Did you watch the DSM hearing?

Conyers promised "many, many more 'next hearings'."

Afterdowningstreet.org and Downingstreetmemo.com will pound harder than ever.

A rally across from the White House follows today's hearings.

CNN has been reporting DSM on its cable news today, and MSNBC on its site.

122 member of Congress and over half a million American citizens have signed a letter that is about to be delivered to Bush.

Not sure why you would think it's time to quit now.

[Stevendsmith]

19. I'm not quitting. I never said that.

I'm just trying to envision this resulting in Bush losing office, and I'm not seeing a realistic chain of events leading to that.

But we must keep hammering, I agree!

[Barad Simith]

25. It's not a stretch - at all - for me to believe that the public will...

...finally say "enough" and demand answers. I refuse to believe that the average person is so evil as to condone-by-ignore sending our troops to war under false pretenses.

There's nothing to lose by keeping a positive attitude. As you said, "we must keep hammering," so we might as well believe in our cause while we're at it.

Cheer up! So maybe Bush doesn't leave office early as a result of this. Maybe the Democrats get a virtual sweep in '06 and '08. When the majority of Republicans start to think that's a possibility, they'll turn on Bush.

[eleny]

13. That must be the earthquake you're feeling

The DSM storm is only beginning to brew. I guess you weren't around during Watergate. I was. Drip, drip, drip.

[Javaman]

14. This one has the glue to stick. It ain't going away...

[fla nocount]

15. Cheer up. I think his handlers are going to let us have him.

Of course they're our handlers too but all we have to do is consume, which we do. He has to perform and produce, which he can't.

[LittleClarkie]

18. Funny, I feel just the opposite

it's starting to grow.

[Tommymac]

21. Not me.

It's like a small break has finally opened in the storm clouds and a slender ray of sun has warmed my soul...

The storm will rage for many more years...have no doubt...but now I know that above it all is blue sky and the light of day....and I am renewed in my strength, my hope.

[ieoeja]

22. As well you should.

DUers reacted to DSM much like Freepers did to Whitewater, etc.

If you're looking for something to use against Bush, it's there. If you read it just to see what it says, you wonder what all the fuss is about.

[Dr Fate]

30. You are comparing the Iraq War to Clinton's old land deal????

Talk about "old news"!!!!!

news Flash- The GOP/media drumming up of "Whitewater" did a very good job of destroying Clinton's credibility & political capital.

News Flash- the Iraq war is a CURRENT EVENT and many folks are starting to wonder why we are there.

[Robbien]

23. Are you nuts? I can see the rabid right coming here posting

the very same post hoping it gets picked up and spread around the web as proof that progressives are discouraged that DSM has no legs.

Do you really feel that way or are you really hoping to get progressives to feel discouraged?

[Stevendsmith]

29. I don't censor myself for freepers

I'm just sick of getting my hopes up and getting burned.

Do you expect impeachment proceedings to result from this?

[Dr Fate]

31. I never expected impeachment. I think we should use it to beat them down.

The memo works to destroy Bush's credibility on all FP issues.

Harry Reid used it today, tying it to the Bolton nomination.

[lies and propaganda]

35. I was left literally crying tears of joy....

and i screwed up and forgot about the time difference so i only got to see the last 40 minutes.

the Sessenbrenner jibe at the end was fabulous.

But i too, am apprehensive, and just really truly wish people would wake the fuke up and see whats really going on.

[Robbien]

32. I expected that progressives get galvanized to act

Too many people are sitting around doing nothing. I expected a movement to start and keep going.

People sitting around crying Woe Is Me are part of the problem and not not part of the solution.

[Stevendsmith]

34. You are right

That's why I post here. Sometimes I need my ass kicked out of despair. It's been a long 4-plus years.

Thanks.

[Robbien]

39. Well, a nice LTTE to your local paper

is a good start. Write a few words on the issues brought up. If a local paper gets enough LTTEs on the same subject they will certainly print one of them. Enough LTTEs will wake up some more people.

[Lecky]

33. I still have hope

As much as we want to believe it, not all republicans are evil. I believe some are slowly coming around, it's hard to ignore the truth when it's staring you in the face.

I only say this because most of the republicans I know cannot stand Bush or this war he has lead us in. (and I live in a mega red state).

We already have republicans in DC turning against Bush and this war.

Just keep fighting for the truth rather than "impeachment", I believe once the truth is revealed to all, there will be no choice. Remember who we are fighting for...not just the democrats, but for everyone.

BTW, the reason I joined DU in the first place was because of these memos, I bet I'm not the only one. If anything this is making us stronger!

End of my idealistic optimistic rant, I hope you enjoyed it :)

[Toots]

36. Just one more drip, but the drips are getting closer together now

The dam is going to break, possibly sooner than we realize.

[G_j]

38. just look at how far we have come!

it is slow, but I see progress. We are making a difference.

[Lexingtonian]

40. no, don't get that way

Defeatism means the other guys win by default.

Ethical problems are the last step in bringing down politicians who are of too little usefulness to The People. They're not magic bullets.

Look at it this way: The People has elected this set of Republicans to do certain jobs. Once the task is finished- accomplished, or blown- a sector of The People stops supporting them.

This bunch of hardline conservative Republicans was elected to bring us what the (white male) conservative myth of American life promises.

They destroyed a Democratic Party dominated by 'moderates'. The service of this incarnation of the Democratic Party was that it defeated the reactionary and principle-devoid Republicanism identified with Gingrich- and had no other reason for existence. The Democratic Party has re-formed around its liberal wing. Whatever else may be true about it, the liberal wing is not afraid of the future and embraces it. Is this the worst possible outcome, or a good one?

We've tried out all the hardline conservative policies in domestic and foreign affairs. They fail at everything except personal enrichment of a few. Hardline Democrats rejected them because they can't succeed. Those were the political terms of argument in 2002. Moderate Democrats have rejected the policies because they don't work out when implemented- and they are the people who take lying seriously. Those were the political terms of argument in 2003.

Indies reject policies as they stop making sense, when the internal contradictions become evident. Those have been the political terms of argument of 2004/05, i.e. Abu Ghraib.

Moderate Republicans are wavering but not giving up on the present policies yet. They're the people around whom the present politics revolves. Their political behavior is (to my best understanding) all about a cost/benefit analysis, not marketing (where they assume everything gets oversold). You may be frustrated that they don't respond to the moralizing about the Downing Street memos. But their thinking just doesn't work the way yours does. Think about how Donald Trump- he's a paradigm moderate Republican- would look at the present policies. Yes, he'd fire all the people still holding jobs in the Administration. But he'd look at every one of their policies for what material good they actually do, the liabilities and failure and long term prospects involved, and the material costs incurred, before changing (or retaining) them.

People like us can't do very much in the present situation. But we can speak in the appropriate way, about costs vs benefits, provide the right questions and facts to the wavering people. How much "democracy" and "freedom" is there in Iraq, and at what cost? How many actual terrorists has the Guantanamo Bay prison held, and why not imprison the handful in the Middle East or the continental United States? How much debt is being accumulated per capita, versus how much are people are "saving" in taxes? What's the real level of inflation? If there are no terrorist cells in the United States, why does the FBI want the right to subpoena book store owners and libraries rather than take a federal judge along to sign warrants? How much are Americans profiting from outsourcing, versus how much wealth leaves the country because of it?

If that's what works, is it really that hard to try it? Rather than be yet another fire-and-brimstone moralizing preacher to these people, speaking of strange and immaterial things?

Yes, there is a change involved. We have to treat them as reasonable people on their own terms, whether or not we agree with their terms. When in a material sense there are no useful profits and only losses associated with supporting Bush policies, they'll oppose them. Engaging their imaginations isn't of much use. Engaging their interests and material/object-centered worldview is.

It might seem like a "rigged" situation to you. In fact, it is only strange, and in the present is so in the key demographic being devoid of certain kinds of imagination. That's the way a lot of our fellow citizens are. Conversely, in their eyes we are the people who have overactive imaginations and are strangely sensitive to things that contradict our fantasy and overreact to being told wrong things about non-material things.

Just rearm for this particular sort of fighting if you can.

[dogday]

41. It's a movement, meaning it's always in motion and sometimes

the motion is slow and sometimes the pace picks up. History will takes it's time but I do believe we will change history in thiscountry...