Looking at the bright side of the Patriot Act...

[Devils Advocate NZ]

I know the subject of this post seems somehow insane, but let's consider it a little bit. We know for example that the Patriot Act has granted the President the power to define someone as a terrorist and as such they can be "detained" without trial, without a lawyer, without recourse to the courts, for as long as the President considers them a threat to national security.

In the hands of George W Bush, such power is indeed a terrible thing, but what about when Bush is voted out next year and a Democrat takes power?

Well, if I was the new Democratic President, I would declare George W Bush, Jeb Bush, the entire Bush appointed administration, the people at PNAC, AEI etc etc etc as terrorists. I would go on TV and tell the world about the stolen election, the attempts to subvert democracy, the war crimes against the Iraqi people, the outright theft of taxpayers money through no-bid contracts and so on and so forth, and then have them all arrested and their assets seized (supporting terrorism being the explanation).

I would then have them all shipped to Guantanamo and put in cages to await "interogation". The worst offenders, like Bush and Rumsfeld and Ashcroft I would have shipped to another nation where more "pressure" could legally be applied, until they explain what happened on Sept 11.

Does this sound like a good idea? Or should we take the high road and let these terrorists get away with their crimes? I say never again! It is time to make these terrorists pay!

Wouldn't you like to see Perle and Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney, Jeb and George Bush, dressed in orange jumpsuits, hooded and shackled, and frogmarched into dog kennels in the hot Cuban sun?

I know I would!

Hell, how many other people would need a little "terrorist" treatment?

O'Reilly? Telling a victim of Sept 11 to shut up is terrorism isn't it? Coulter? She has directly threatened Americans with death, so she HAS to be a terrorist. What about the Supreme Court five? They subverted democracy and the Constitution to ratify a coup. That sure was terrifying. Yep, I say lock them up.

Who else?

Yes, the Patriot Act could be a GOOD thing, especially if the next Democratic President has the balls (or the ovaries) to use it.

[Oggy]

1. But then

you are no better than them. I think they have probably done enough to be locked up after a normal trial under pre-patriot laws!

[VermontDem2004]

4. I agree

[westerby]

2. Certainly that was irony. If not...

I assume you meant your proposition as a kind of satire.
To declare someone as an “enemy combatant” and to deprive this person of his constitutional rights just by a decision of the President is a highly arbitrary act. As such it is more typical of a dictatorship than of a democracy. And that does not depend upon the provenance of the President.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

7. Yes, it was indeed.

Although the very idea of Bush being given a taste of his own medicine brings a smile to my face, my post was actually to illustrate just how dangerous this piece of shit "law" really is.

Basically, with it, the Presdient can lock up and torture ANYONE, ANYWHERE purely on his say so. This is NOT what it means to be "leader of the free world".

In fact, I believe everyone who even voted for such an abomination must be looked on with suspicion, even more so if they have done nothing to eradicate it since then.

Do the Dems actually LIKE the idea of having this power? Oh, they may use it for good (like I described in my original post) but can good EVER come from such a thing?

It seems to me that the Patriot Act is even MORE important than the Iraq war or even the economy (for Americans that is - myself not being one). This one law basically reverses everything the US Constitution stands for. It grants to the President the powers of an Emperor.

It needs to be fought by ALL Americans - left, right, and centre, even the uneducated freeper that decided to grace this thread with his "black hole" intellect (you know, one that is so dense, it decreases the IQ of those who approach too closely).

In fact that was why I put it the way I did. If a single freeper reads my post and wakes up to how dangerous the Patriot Act is then it will have been worth it.

[Silk]

3. So many lies I don't know where to begin!

The patriot act doesn't mean you can label anyone a terrorist, just a suspicious muslim, George Bush and the Bush family aren't radical muslims are they? Now no one is being mistreated at Guatanomo Bay, I even read a report where inmates gained 10 lbs! Since being there, plus Charlie Daniels went down there himself and he said they were being TOO NICE to the terrorists.

Wouldn't you like to see Perle and Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Cheney, Jeb and George Bush, dressed in orange jumpsuits, hooded and shackled, and frogmarched into dog kennels in the hot Cuban sun?

Like Clinton?

O'Reilly? Telling a victim of Sept 11 to shut up is terrorism isn't it? Coulter? She has directly threatened Americans with death, so she HAS to be a terrorist. What about the Supreme Court five? They subverted democracy and the Constitution to ratify a coup. That sure was terrifying. Yep, I say lock them up.


I watched that O'reilly interview and the September 11th victim was ranting left wing propaganda and Bill didn't tell him too shut up. He was calm and courterous and didn't slide down to his level. He said Bush was the reason September 11th happen and whatever opinion you can have about the Iraq War, he WAS AGAINST THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN. His father would be ferious if he was alive today. How has beautiful Ann threatened any Americans? I would really like to know.

[VermontDem2004]

5. Referring to Charlie Daniels as a reliable source

Hahaha. How about when Ann said that her only regret of Timmothy McVeigh was that he didn't blow up the NYT's editorial building.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

8. So small a mind - I don't know how to help you to understand...

Would talking slowly help? Perhaps if I got my eight year old niece to help you? She is only a few mental years your senior, perhaps she can help you to understand?

The patriot act doesn't mean you can label anyone a terrorist, just a suspicious muslim

Yes it does. Was that simple enough for you? Or would you prefer grunts?

I even read a report where inmates gained 10 lbs!

Did they take the chains off first? If they are your intellectual peers, I suspect not.

Charlie Daniels went down there himself and he said they were being TOO NICE to the terrorists.

Charlie Daniels was allowed to visit them? Too bad their lawyers (or anyone else with a brain - unlike you and Mr Daniels) weren't.

Like Clinton?

You're just jealous! Admit it! We all know that size DOES matter, and Little Georgie is just not up to the task.

I watched that O'reilly interview and the September 11th victim was ranting left wing propaganda and Bill didn't tell him too shut up.

Hmm... Maybe I was too busy laughing at O'Reilly's two bit softcore porn book to hear him properly? Perhaps what he really said was "Shove it up me, George, shove it up!" Then again, I hear tell that the first member was busily buried in that toothless maw you call your mouth to be used in such a way...

How has beautiful Ann threatened any Americans? I would really like to know.

That crack whore you call "beautiful" called for the deaths of true American patriots so that slime like you didn't have to feel so inferior. Of course after his sex change operation, and the little problem with lack of food, it is no surprise that even YOU make him look like a dullard.

I suppose we should pity him, but it sure is hard to pity such a vile creature.

I tell you what - when the next Democratic President (who should be along in just over a year, so you won't have to wait long) begins to round up the terrorists, perhaps you would like to put your name on the list of supporters, so that you can spend a little "quality time" with him in sunny Cuba?

[indepat]

6. But, but wouldn't the so-called felonious five rule unconstitutional

much of the Patriot Act were a Democrat president?

[Devils Advocate NZ]

9. Sticking with the argument just a little longer...

Not if they were held "incommunicado" in Guantanamo they wouldn't!

That is the beauty of the Patriot Act - Anyone, anywhere, for any reason!

Oh the fun we shall have!

I can dream, can't I?