Cartoon: "I often visited with the state's entire Latino community"

[Mairead]

[WilliamPitt]

1. I-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-incoming!!!!

*ducking, fleeing*

[skewthat]

34. HAHAHA good one!

.

[CWebster]

2. I really have to wonder

about your personal vendetta against Howard Dean...It isn't as if you breathe fire for John Kerry or Gephardt or even Lieberman or Clark. If you want to discuss race relations I can dig up ancient accounts of racial divisive tactics used by Kucinich in past campaigns. It isn't as if Dean supporters post sneering little cartoons about Kucinich and his voting history on Choice or any of the personal quirks or habits he displays. This is just mean and petty.

Are you just jealous that Dean has galvanized so much support from the Democratic base? I think it is sad that you would attack Dean - who isn't perfect, but who is decent and tries, while being silent about the others-who pose a greater risk. Ain't nothing more than voting for Nader all over again.

And look where that got us.

[REP]

5. Remember - "Nobody Shoots At You On The Way Down"

Everyone is still talking about Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean. To steal a little of that attention, some supporters of another candidate attack.

No one posts embarassing Kucinich quotes or insulting cartoons; why kick the man when he's down?

[MercutioATC]

6. I agree about most of her posts, but even I thought this was funny...

We have to be able to laugh at some of this stuff...

Besides, this is more of a slap at Vermont's diversity than it is at Dean.

[vi5]

7. So minorities aren't part of the base? What about Unions?

Even many people I know who support Dean (myself included) think he has a loooooooong way to go to galvanize sufficient minority support and also shore up a more sizable portion of Union support (I don't think he's ahead of anyone in that category even though they like him as much as they like any of the other candidates). So by saying he's "energized the base" you pretty much just mean white liberals, and I think the idea that this is the be all end all of "the base" is going to cost him in the end, this myopic vision of who the base is and a defensiveness about what he still has left to do to shore up his support.

[Mairead]

11. *I* didn't draw the goddamn cartoon!! Blame Alcaraz, not me.

[WilliamPitt]

17. It just got here by magic, too

:)

[Mairead]

25. No, actually I posted it -- see, my name's on.

I also post links to other cartoons that seem funny and apropos to me.

[MercutioATC]

19. I think the cartoon is funny, but don't agree with you on responsibility.

If I post a humorous anti-Kucinich piece (assuming I had posted my share of serious anti-Kucinich pieces in the past) am I totally off the hook simply because I wasn't the original author?

I may take issue with your positions, but you DO have the right to be anti-Dean. You also endorse the anti-Dean sentiment when you post these things, though.

[Mairead]

27. I found it by accident, thought it was funny and very appropriate too

And should you be off the hook if you post something funny and anti-Dennis? Sure! Unless you created it.

I am responsible for posting this one (my name is on the post)

I am not responsible for it (my name is not on the cartoon)

[MercutioATC]

30. O.K....agreed as far as your clarification

I still think that I deserve some heat if I post an anti-anybody comic after quite a few serious anti-whomever posts.

...which is why I don't post anti-whomever posts (rarely, at least).

Taken as an individual post, you're right. This one was funny.

[ShaneGR]

3. Yeah, there are thousands of minorities in Lakewood, Ohio

Wait, nevermind. There aren't any at all. Nevermind.

[alphafemale]

4. The 'toon's kinda cute...I don't see it as mean-sprited, but it is...

..inaccurate.

Every time I'm doing a visibility action for Dean positive response comes from across many demographics.

Even when just wearing a Dean button out and about I've learned I'd better have some literature on hand.

I'm having hecka' fun!

[papau]

8. inaccurate - yep - we even elected the father of a black family

to the legislature!

And I am told there a double digit number of black families in Vermont. Never saw many Hispanics - fewer than the number of blacks - but can't we count dark skin Indians from India?

In Vermont the Northern French are treated like blacks and browns are treated in other states - I mean you have to have some group to dump on - right? But I grant you that the level of evil re race or ethnic is much much lower in Vermont - even counting the French putdowns - than in other parts of the country.

[Sephirstein]

13. Well...

The majority of Vermont Francophones have little of my respect.

Most of them have the same views as the fallangist crooks who ruled Quebec before the Quiet Revolution. They need to get with the time.

[Kamika]

9. He does have a point though

Dean should start appealing abit to the minorities.

/asian american dean supporter

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. For the most part, I've stayed out of the Dem candidate bashing on DU

But I have to say this about a Dem candidate from the northeast: If he hasn't had meaningful experiences with minorities and/or he's not boning up with minority organizations now, it's already too late. It means his learning curve will rely on the perceptions of other white northeasterners and, quite frankly, relying on someone else's experiences on this issue is just asking for trouble.

I don't have much confidence in white people's perceptions when they've lived their lives behind gated communities, metaphorically speaking. If you haven't had first-hand day-to-day experience with ethnic groups, you will always feel guarded around them because that is what the white culture reinforces. And if you feel guarded, you certainly aren't in any position to represent them.

I don't know how Dean overcomes this problem. But if he does have personal reservations about ethnic groups, it will be hard to hide.

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. I think Dean

worked at a practice in the South Bronx for a while. I'm sure there were one or two blacks and/or hispanics there (or so I've heard).

:)

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Here, send this to Dean for me:

http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=387000

It's probably more than he deserves. Here in Florida, I live amongst many retirees from the north east, and their insular perceptions of minorities is shocking and depressing.

[salin]

26. printing this article for a close read

looks very important - and serious. Thanks.

Let me add - I grew up in a liberal college town (midwest), and thought I got it. After college worked in DC and thought I got it. Several years later was working in Detroit with kids about to be kicked out of school and learned - that not only had I never gotten it, that there was only so much that I could - given my life experiences - ever get. But that by realizing what I didn't get - I could be open to continuing to learn - from each student, from each family, from finally seeing and understanding the insidiousness of institutional racism by watching how it played out for kids that I adored - but who were, imo, savagely defeated by the system which was tilted against them. By getting that I could never fully get it, I am open to continuing to expand my understanding as much as possible from a middle class white life.

Never realized what an odd place it put me in - in terms of an expanded conscieness that left me a bit alone - until several high profile national stories that centered around race. First Rodney King and the LA riots (while I was working in Detroit), and later the OJ trial and watercooler discussions (while I was in grad school on the west coast.) I lived through a case - very close to work of slaughter of a man, Malice Green, and can very easily believe the coverup and quick blame of on the victim. I knew of cases of planted evidence. When white 'open minded' colleagues continued to pledge allegience to the goodintentions of all in police enforcement (they wouldn't do that....) I realized I knew that I was in a different space. I know they could - and have. While others screamed against OJ - while in my gut I felt there was likely guilt - I was very troubled by the train of evidence - I expected a hung jury based on that fact. Thing is - I knew my conscieness is limited in terms of race - but I also knew that in terms of race it had been expanded far beyond most of my white friends and colleagues. Have met more folks of similar perspectives in the intervening years - but I really did feel pretty lonely for awhile - not in terms of being with people - but in terms of being alone in perspective.

All that said, I get your concerns - and think they are valid. And you are right - it isn't an easy thing to 'get'. And I don't think one 'gets it' just because one decides to - I think one has to live and see and hear things that shakes up ones' reality a bit - before one can really begin to hear/see and attempt to understand.

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. Thank you, Salin.

Your effort in understanding and your concern is appreciated.

[salin]

33. Thanks

but this has all become so central to my life (personally and professionally) that it feels akward to be thanked. And in all honesty the opportunities in life that have opened up, I like to think because I was doing things for others for the right reasons (and was good at it), have been amazing. I often feel like I should be (and am) the one saying thanks. Corny sounding, isn't it.

[Mairead]

28. Unless he _lived_ in the South Bronx too, I suspect the relationship was

quite bounded and structured.

[salin]

31. Based on what?

I have both worked in an economically depressed, minortiy community and lived in one - not necessarily simultaneously. While working I learned a great deal and gained a much greater understanding of the insidiousness of institutional racism. It is possible for this to happen. Then again, I have a brother who worked in an urban ER and only gained a limited level of understanding. Depends on a bigger picture, which I don't think we have.

Making assumptions is sometimes a very arrogant thing to do.

[Mairead]

36. Based on the role differences between allopathic physician and patients

It's not a social relationship.

[bearfartinthewoods]

15. i'm almost ready to agree with you on this

being comfortable around blacks and latinos only comes with exposure and i'm not putting him down for this. it's just a result of geography.
but an understanding of racial issues is really hard to "learn". it's more a matter of experience.

[WoodrowFan]

16. LOL

I like Dean and I thought this was funny. I saw it as a slap (a gentle one) at Vermont and it's overall whiteness. It's a little know fact that the song "white shade of Pale" is about the population in the Northern Kingdom. Hey, my wife is from WAYYYYYY up North in New Hampshire (well north of Berlin) and there's so little diversity there she thought white Presbyterians were exotic!

[clar]

21. Harrrumph

As a resident of the Kingdom, I resent that.

[Jonte_1979]

18. Well, I thought it was pretty danged funny!

:thumbsup:

[MoonAndSun]

20. As a hispanic woman who is a very strong supporter of Dean,

chill out everyone. I read Lalo almost every day, the strips are often funny, often hit too close to home for a lot of hispanics.

This one toon is funny, I did laugh out loud. And please remember that in the debate in New Mexico, the mostly hispanic audience really, really liked Dean.

The truth is that there are not very many hispanics in Vermont. What is wrong with pointing that out. It does not mean that Dean cannot win the hispanic vote.

[LuminousX]

22. Funny

It is cutesy funny even though Dean worked side by side with Cubans which is where he learned his Spanish and is why he can speak it without sounding tortured.

Of course, speaking a language doesn't mean you understand the needs of a community. I speak a bit of Latin and I have no idea what the Roman's want out of life. Oh, wait...

[Padraig18]

23. LOL!

:D

[iambe]

24. Is that Mallard Fillmore?

No duck - but then again, "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck..."

[Mairead]

29. No, it's 'La Cucaracha', drawn by Lalo Alcaraz who, like Doug Marlette,

is also an editorial cartoonist.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. Took me a sec to get that one...

But I find political cartoons hillarious no matter who they make fun of.