People need to give Bill Clinton a break

[Quixote1818]

Clinton and Bush Sr. are working together on Tsunami Relief. Do people want Clinton to start going off on the Bush's when he is working with Bush Sr.? Do you know how bad that would look? They are trying to help hundreds of thousands who were left homeless by the Tsunami and if Clinton started ripping into Bush Sr's. son right now how could they work together to help all those people????? I was extremely impressed with how gracious Clinton was on Letterman and people forget he was ALWAYS that way!!!! He always was nice the Republicans. Republican Pet Dominici here in New Mexico really likes Clinton because Clinton always treated him great! Thats who Bill Clinton is! He is very gracious and kind to everyone he meets regardless of party affiliation.

Clinton's job right now is to help thousands of homeless people and to get along with Bush Sr. so they can be as effective as possible. It's not to be Howard Dean!

[SHRED]

1. I agree

I also agree with Mike Malloy when he says, "Clinton was the best Republican president this country has ever had".

[Zomby Woof]

3. Malloy stole that tired (and untrue) line from Michael Moore

Besides, Clinton recently called Chimpy's policies "dumb economics", which is as blunt as anything Blowhard Dean comes up with, and after the first round of tsunami relief efforts. Clinton knows how to get his digs in.

I think the advantage here is that the repukes hate Clinton so obsessively, this drives them even crazier than it drives us.

[ladjf]

2. Why? He didn't give us one.

[Zomby Woof]

9. How so?

I made less than $30,000 (as a teacher) during his first term. I got a tax cut. Unlike Chimpy, who gives his tax cuts to the wealthy. During his second term, I made some money investing, due to his initiatives in balancing the budget and calming the bond market. Made home ownership easier, and wages increased over cost-of-living increases for the first time in over 30 years.

As for welfare reform, if 5 years isn't enough time to get your shit together, then fuck it. That was one reform (and the Democrats are supposed to be the reform party, not the status quo party) that was needed. I get tired of so-called progressives whining about welfare reform. I knew plenty of people on welfare when I was teaching - single mothers and the like - and they were NOT affected by the reform.

I would agree NAFTA is a bust, but there is no president in history without a few glaring errors on his record. That and Rwanda would qualify. He has admitted as much on Rwanda, although it's a lose-lose situation when dealing with ancient tribal hatreds.

Otherwise, he was a DEMOCRAT, and the last time we will see a person from a truly working-class childhood ever make it to the White House on his own merits.

[Quixote1818]

11. And he was working with a Republican Congress. He tried Universal

Health Care and did many things for Gay's and Lesbians and human rights. His hands were tied by a Republican congress or I am sure he would have done a lot more.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. He tried PRIVATE universal healthcare

Which was impossible to afford and too hard for anybody to even understand. Single payer private doctor universal healthcare was simple and affordable, but he would have actually had to do more than twist a few congressmen's arms to get something like that passed. BTW it was the Democratic controlled House and Senate that killed his healthcare bill. He campaigned on standing up for gays and lesbians but signed DOMA (the first piece of official federal gay bashing legislation) and settled on "Don't ask Don't tell" instead of having a real policy for gays in the military.

[Boredtodeath]

15. Let me give you the REAL problem with Clinton's Welfare Reform

A dear friend of mine was messed up by doctors; botched surgery. He has lifelong problems which will keep him from even working a 40 hour week, thanks to these doctors.

And, in 6 months, Bill Clinton's Welfare Reform kicks him off any medical assistance at all. No insurance, no medicaid, no medicare (he's too young to qualify) - just "tough luck, your time is up - DIE."

And, because he's too poor to pay $50K for an attorney, no medical malpractice will assist him in the future.

So, ZombyWoof, I suggest you deal with the REALITIES of what Bill Clinton's Welfare Reform means to human beings and come down off your high horse in his defense.

Bill Clinton's Welfare Reform just handed my friend a six month death sentence.

I'd invite you to come explain what a great man Bill Clinton is to his children.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. Clinton did do a good job of screwing over the poor

Which is quite a shame considering it is rare that you get a President from somebody of his background. Clinton some good things and some bad things in his administration. After reading Wellstone's book, I really did have a much lower opinion of Clinton. That being said, it is hard to hold Clinton in low regards when our current "President" is about a million times worse.

[ladjf]

22. He was a brilliant and skilled polititician.

However, his inability to control his sex interest set the stage for the Bush takeover. Without the sex scandal, Bush couldn't have gone in despite the crooked elections. The Democratic majority would have prevailed. Therefore, I hold him partially responsible for what we are now dealing with.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. How exactly did Clinton set the stage for the Bush takeover?

Gore ran a god awful campaign, hired awful strategists (amongst them Bob Shrum, the now 8 time loser after working on the Kerry campaign), pulled out of his home state, and lost the debates to fucking moron chimp. Add all of that to Nader and Katherine Harris/Jeb Bush Florida fraud and I have no idea where Clinton and his 70%+ approval rating on the day of his impeachment has anything to do with the Bush takeover in 2000. The GOP has been preaching the same family values bullshit since Nixon. Clinton was the only one who has really managed to beat them on their bullshit family values campaigns so far and frankly he still could if he wasn't constitutionally term limited.

[ladjf]

43. I agree with everything you said. However, minus the sex

scandal, the Democrats would have prevailed in the 2000 election.
We are dealing with an array of elements that had an influence on the outcome. Minus any one of them, i.e. Nader, the Gore campaign, the Florida voting fraud and the Dems would have won. My point is that Clinton's incredibly stupid and selfish sexual dalliances at the White House cost us dearly in the 2000 election.

[Hippo_Tron]

54. I think the sex hurt us but I think the impeachment hurt the GOP more

I think that the GOP were seen as attempting a coup d'etat on a fairly popular President and thus I think the impeachment weakened the GOP going in to 2000 more than the sex weakened us going in to 2000 (or at least if we had played our cards right, that is what it would have been). Frankly I don't remember Bush ever being asked what he thought of the Clinton impeachment, which was another failure on the part of the Gore campaign. What I am basically saying is that the sex didn't hurt us because the backlash from the impeachment helped us much more. That being said, Clinton had a hard time accomplishing anything domestically in his last two years because of the sex and had Gore become President, he would've had a very difficult time working with the same GOP controlled congress.

[Deja Q]

47. Let me count the ways: (oh, and a slam against * too.)

1. Jocelyn Elders (by repuke "request")
2. DOMA
3. DMCA (no comment :grr: )
4. NAFTA (your defence is that no president is perfect? Poppy started NAFTA and Clinton merrily signed it and our jobs away)
5. Revoking the 55mph speed limit (oil's no problem, donchaknow)
6. Telecom act (gave us the fascist mess we're in today)
7. Welfare reform (hasn't stopped wealthy corporations from partaking, and when you lose your job and can't get one in ~5 years, come back to us when you've changed your tune; it's not all about leeching slobs, though wealthy corporations are given a free ride without being applied the same standards...)
8. Monica (no good deed goes unpunished)
9. Said the SAME EXACT blatherings of Saddam and Iraq, during a low point of his presidency too. (What's Clinton's excuse? And what if Clinton HAD invaded Iraq? Would the neocons skin and roast him alive? Again, no good deed goes unpunished.)

Must I go on? Clinton is a POLITICIAN. I don't care if he was truly working class or not, what he became when he got in power is no different from any other politician. Once you get it, you get GREAT benefits FOR LIFE. That alone is enough incentive to make a person capitulate to keep the job or be lazy like ** has been (no free ride, says corporate execs, despite they themselves gettng golden parachutes too... at our expense. Communism for a select few...)

[madmax]

4. He's a Statesmen

He's not going to act vindictive and petty thus alienating the Dems when most of the country are brainwashed by the 'liberal media'. I don't think he'll do or say anything that will make the Dems look... well like * petty and vindictive ;)

[LightningFlash]

5. No there's nothing about Clinton.

"The best republican president we ever had"

He's part of the republican party and he shows it, I disagree with all of his policies besides his policy to avoid war with Iraq in 1998. When I look at the records, it shows we were about to go to war. He made sure it did not happen and growed some conscience and good decision making then.

[barbaraann]

8. Yes. He fooled me for most of his two terms.

One way to tell what his politics are is to look at Arkansas and see if his years as Governor made a lasting progressive difference. As far as I can tell, they didn't.

[Lefty48197]

23. As far as Bob Dole can tell...

John Kerry never even bled in Vietnam. So what's your point, Senator?

[journalist3072]

6. I totally agree with you. I'm sick of people complaining about Clinton

hanging out with the Bush Sr. too much. They have a mission at hand: to help those affected by the tragic events of Dec. 26.

Besides, I think what President Clinton is showing is that you can have sharp political differences with someone, and sitll come together with that person, for the good of humanity; for a great purpose other than yourself!

I'm impressed by Clinton working with Bush Sr. I think it shows the true quality of his character. Why? Because Clinton has been called everything but a child of God by the right-wing. And if he wanted, he'd have every right to be a bitter and angry man. He's not.

[radwriter0555]

7. Bill clinton needs to pick with whom he associates. Hang with the GOP nazi

party, then get LABELED with the GOP nazi party.

No quarter.

[SHRED]

12. Exactly

Golf and yachting with Poppy Bush?
Give me fucking break.

Me along with 10's of thousands thrown in prison for pot, under Clinton's regime, feel betrayed.
Him and Gore spoke not ONE WORD regarding industrial hemp. Fuck them both.

[Pepperbelly]

18. Guilt by association?

No thank you. McCarthyism sucks.

[radwriter0555]

28. In this case yes. You're known by the company you keep. McCarthyism was

a witch hunt for a non-existent enemy. The bush regime is a REAL enemy.

[Pepperbelly]

29. guilt by asociation is guilt by association and it sucks no matter who ...

does it.

[DemonFighterLives]

10. Clinton could work on the Tsunami Relief by himself

There is no reason under the son that he should lay down with the enemy. Dubby's daddy is not good and was never helpful to Clinton when Clinton was being witch hunted.
Their coziness is a sign that we(dems) are in more trouble than we know.
I really liked Bill, but half of his actions are now questionable. Excuse me!

[Aristus]

19. I think Bush Sr. is helping to get hard-core Republicans to

contribute to Tsunami relief. That's important. After all, the Repukes are the people who believe that if you're homeless and hungry, then it's your own damn fault.

A non-partisan effort is important for helping the victims of the tsunami. 'Nuff said.

[DemonFighterLives]

27. I guess I'll buy that

I still wish there was another way. Heck with the non-compassionate aholes, Clinton needs to distance himself from the EVIL family.

[radwriter0555]

34. Nope. I don't buy it. bush senior never gave a crap about anyone not white

rich and male in his whole fucking life. It's always been about what's in it for him.

You can paint all the spots on a skunk you want to. It's still going to be a skunk even with the stripes covered up.

[Deja Q]

48. Just ONE picture shows how Poppy (and *) feels about Clinton:

So why Clinton has supported puke programs and goals during his tenure and being chummy up to those inhuman vermin afterwards is beyond me. Unless he wilfully wants "in", but he should be smart enough (hah!) to realize he'll never get anywhere with poppy. Or *. Or pickles. Or their two delightful :sarcasm: children, built by *'s own (lack of) "family values".

[DemonFighterLives]

51. What is going on in that picture?

Poppy looks to be pushing him? I suppose they have to tell him how they operate on their turf. It's a mafia don thing, I guess.
You got it right, Clinton will not get anywhere good with these backstabbers in his camp.

[peacebuzzard]

13. I sympathize w/ your feelings....

but you'll get little of that around the Clinton bashers here. You would think they'd be more encompassing. It's a waste of your good intentions. Take heart, many of us here are a silent majority, just don't want to take a beating for an opinion.. .

[Quixote1818]

14. Yes

I have never in my life even at Democratic meet ups with VERY liberal Democrats met anyone with the kind of disdain for Clinton that I see from a few people here on DU. They are not happy with anyone who even smiles at a Republican. They are definitely fringe because in life I have never met people like them with such extreme views.

Boy will this post get flamed.

[earth mom]

52. Hell yeah-I resent your remarks!

I don't consider myself fringe whatsoever. I'm your average middle class woman with a family who was formerly living as the working poor and who knows in no uncertain terms when I've been given the shaft and lied to.

I'm sick to death of Clinton and his lies and bullshit and pretending to care about people like me. He doesn't! I WILL call a spade a spade. He is no different than Poppy or * or Jeb! I am angry that he is pretending to be a democrat that cares about the people when he clearly DOES NOT!

Just because someone doesn't go to "meetups" and get involved in the same way you do in the democratic party doesn't mean they are living as a fringe element in society. Generalizations and compartmentalizing and holier than thou judgements is something rethugs do isn't it? :grr:

[Algorem]

16. .

[Algorem]

25. .

[LSK]

17. well its kinda hard when we are in the fight of the century

And Clinton is going around promoting his book and not helping our cause at all.

Maybe he would be best if he just didnt appear as much right now.

[Quixote1818]

21. Why aren't you upset with Jimmy Carter then?

Carter is building houses and not helping our cause at all. That bastard!!!

[LSK]

24. I dont see Carter all over the media

Clinton is making the rounds promoting his book. Maybe you missed that part of my post??

[Pepperbelly]

30. I haven't seen him pimp his book in a long time ...

Way before the heart surgery if I recall.

on edit, if I had a book out I'd pimp it so I really don't get your point.

[DemonFighterLives]

44. He was working the book tour on Friday

He called the Al Franken show and later appeared with Big Eddy in St Paul. Just so happens that dubby was in town too on Friday. :puke:

Clintons book, "My Life" came out in paperback in 2 volumes.

[Pepperbelly]

50. Good for him ...

Hope he manages to sell another ka-zillion copies.

[Hippo_Tron]

40. Clinton would upstage any dem leader that can actually run for POTUS

And that includes his wife. That's probably a large reason that he's staying out of the highly partisan activity.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Chamberlain was always "gracious" too. Ask the Czechs.

I lost any remaining respect for Clinton when he and the Mrs. backed the war in Iraq. Not that there was all that much to lose.

[seabeyond]

26. i really think what clinton is doing, is promoting working together

heal the division. that is really the sound i receive from him the last couple months listening to him. he will document were the riff and division began. he puts it on the repugs shoulders, kindly, he also gives it to media,. then he will add some things dems have done over the year to fester it. but he tries, from what i am hearing, to be balance on how it was created and what needs to be done

on edit: i also think some things happened with iraq, that he may be hiding. or not sharing, wink

2nd edit: i also dont trust him and hillary on her career and ambition

[Disturbed]

31. Poppy Bush and Bill are

both Moderate Repubs. They get along nicely, maybe father and son like, even that old sow calls Bill "son". Sure he can hang out with anyone he wants to. That doesn't mean I have to condone it with a smile.I don't know why so many people worship Bill but they do and he is always defended tooth and nail here on DU.

[seabeyond]

42. this is an observation listening to the man

and not just mouthing about the man. i am not a fan of clintons, never have been. i didnt vote for him in 92 and 96 i voted for him only because of the republicans behavior. why i fought so hard for gore in 2000 is because of repug behavior.

i dont trust clinton. i dont want hillary to run for president. dont make assumptions.

i have listened to clinton talk about the division. it isnt a good thing, this division. and i see him working at healing that. before listening to him i was angry at his behavior. now i may not like it but i better understand it.

i didnt think clinton was a wonderful president. i do think he is a LOT better than bush.

[UTUSN]

32. When the Breaks Are Counted Up, We Gave Him the Biggest Breaks

of all time. We stuck by him even when he squandered being in the WH, putting his own and the girl's selfishness ahead of our interests and agenda, giving our enemies weapons and advantages to use against us. The sting of the disappointment has faded for me, I'm not begrudging now, but I'd like for him to let us proceed with our agenda and 1) help us where he can, 2) not get in the way, and 3) certainly not even NEED any more breaks from us. The last line from Primary Colors says it for me (paraphrasing): "O.K., we won it for you. Don't go breaking our hearts." He did. And Heartbreakers tend to be repeaters.

[Pepperbelly]

33. I don't think he's asked us for any break since he left office.

A lot of this is hyperventilating on the forums on the internets. I doubt that he worries that much about it. He has a skin thicker than an alligator.

[CatWoman]

36. I don't feel as if Clinton let me down

Life was good under his presidency.

So far as his "weakness", hey -- the man is only human.

It's not as if he took his sexual frustrations out on unarmed sovereign nations.

[UTUSN]

39. Haha! O.K., You Win Again. I Surrender. Take Me Prisoner!

Yes, life was good, and I know he was gridlocked, but my old mother went to her grave waiting for the healthcare promises and such. He was such a Hope.

I LOVE these serious talks between us. :loveya: 'Night!

[Hippo_Tron]

41. I care about this whole Clinton thing about as much as I care about Jacko

The man who is running the US House of Representatives is a criminal who if he weren't so powerful, would be in jail right now. The man who chairs the House Judiciary Committee won't even allow a reasonable hearing on the Patriot Act. Our President wants to destroy Social Security and put fascists on the Supreme Court. The US is destroying any shred of credability it had with the world by torturing its prisoners of war while at the same time claiming to be morally superior.

Bill Clinton is a figure of the past now and frankly I don't give a shit who he spends his time with.

[KG]

45. fuck bill clinton.

[Deja Q]

49. I'm sure Monica did:

Sorry, but as with sports figures, celebirities, politicians' lives are made public.

And repukes' personal lives are even more vile than Clinton's. Reagan's divorce, Newt's divorce, Dole's divorce - which one of them divorced the woman while she was in hospital?

Governor Groper, Ahnold the great parent, was 100 times the sicko Clinton ever was.

So where the fuck are the Dems being just as loud in retaliation to the repukes? Did their corporate buddies give them more money to remain silent?

[Tsiyu]

46. I'm having mixed feelings

The true test of a good President is whether you have the time during his presidency to worry about whether or not he's a good president...

In my adult life, which began with my vote for Carter, the most prosperous years were spent under Clinton. Today I can only hope to make HALF the hourly $$ I made during his two terms. The economy was booming and there was peace and hope.

His Dalliances ala Romeo didn't trouble me then or now, even though at the time Repukes kept saying, "What about you feminists? Aren't women OUTRAGED over this affair?" Uh. .....no. You see, I'd been treated to over a dozen years of "Biology makes men cheat" from the scientists and "The vile nature of man makes him cheat" from the fundies so forgive me if I wasn't shocked and outraged because Oops. Another man cheated...

Now, his performance on David letterman this past Thursday gave me pause. Too suck-uppy to the BFEE. They have caused a great deal of death and sorrow, and it hurts to see Clinton guffawing about their little "family moments" when so many are in so much pain. It also hurt to see him feign ignorance of the DSM when our hero Letterman brought it up. You're not stupid, Bill. That pissed me off.

But if anyone has paid the price to be a Democrat, he has. And what's to say he's not observing and spying as he pals it up with the Fascists? Like I said, he's not stupid...

[mvd]

53. That Letterman appearance also made me angry.

He's a hawk, so I wasn't surprised. What has surprised me is just how nice he's sounded. The Bushes as people are no better than their policies are. And look what he was put through.

[Lilith Velkor]

55. Give Bill Clinton the finger and move on.

Fuck him, the Bushes, and the corporations they rode in on, IMHFO.