Is it fair to say the memos don't tell us anything we didn't already know?

[Quixote1818]

Eric Alterman from the Center for American Progress writes:

"....In the end, it's fair to say that the memos don't tell us anything we didn't already know – although they do confirm many suspicions. Among them are that the British actually thought through the legal implications of invading Iraq, while the Bush administration snubbed its nose at the world body. They also show, at least as much as other evidence has, that the administration behaved incredibly irresponsibly in failing to plan adequately for the war's aftermath – a failure for which thousands of soldiers have paid with their lives and their limbs."

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=817785

Did we know that the Bush administration was fixing the intelligence? Am I missing something here?

[evermind]

1. seems to me like he's contradicting himself:

"In the end, it's fair to say that the memos don't tell us anything we didn't already know – although they do confirm many suspicions."

If you suspect something then you don't know it. If later your suspicion is confirmed, then you do know it. So you now know something you didn't know before. So if you have "many" suspicions confirmed, then you know "many" things you didn't know before.

Reads like sloppy writing/thinking to me. Haven't read at the link though.

[Quixote1818]

4. Exactly!!!!! I was thinking the exact same thing!!!

What Wes Clark, Paul O'Neil and Richard Clark said about Bush having decided to attack Iraq right from the beginning was denied over and over and over by the Bush administration.

To suspect is not to know!!!! The DSM CONFIRM what we suspected!!!!! Fuck are people stupid! This is maddening!!!!

[KoKo]

15. He wrote: "When Presidents Lie: History of Official Deception/Consequence

When Presidents Lie: A History of Official Deception and Its Consequences

FROM THE PUBLISHER
Lying has become pervasive in American Life--but what happens when the falsehoods are perpetrated by the Oval Office? As the lies told by our government become more and more intricate, they begin to weave a tapestry of deception that creates problems far larger than those lied about in the first place.

Eric Alterman's When Presidents Lie is a compelling historical examination of four specific post-World War II presidential lies whose consequences were greater than could ever have been predicted. FDR told the American people that peace was secure in Europe, setting the stage for McCarthyism and the cold war. John F. Kennedy's unyielding stance during the Cuban missile crisis masked his secret deal with the Soviet Union. Misrepresented aggression at the Gulf of Tonkin by the North Vietnamese gave LBJ the power to start a war. Finally, Ronald Reagan's Central American wars ended in the ignominy of the Iran-contra scandal.

In light of George W. Bush's war in Iraq, which Alterman examines in the book's conclusion, When Presidents Lie is a warning--one more relevant today than ever before--that the only way to prevent these lies is America's collective demand for truth.

FROM OUR EDITORS
"When in doubt," advised Mark Twain, "tell the truth." As if to prove Twain's point, Eric Alterman examines four 20th-century cases of little White House lies that escalated into major national problems. The four examples are bipartisan: FDR's misrepresentation of the Yalta Conference; JFK's lies about the Cuban Missile Crisis; Lyndon B. Johnson's fabrication of North Vietnamese aggression; and Dwight Eisenhower's costly fibs about our Central American policy. The book closes with an examination of the mendacity of the current administration. When Presidents Lie isn't just an honesty sermon; it's a fascinating study of American foreign policy in the post-World War II era.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=Ra52d05KzQ&isbn=0670032093&itm=13
SYNOPSIS

[stillcool]

2. ....we knew...like some ...

know Kerry won the election and Bushco is up to his eyeballs in 9/11 also. The difference is we don't have documents yet to support what we know. Any Government officials from Israel feel like leaking something?

[scottxyz]

3. When they say "It's old news" you reply "So you admit it's true?"

"Old news" about a crime isn't called irrelevant.

It's called "evidence".

Particularly when it's on paper in black-and-white, written by the head of intelligence of at your main ally, the UK.

[Quixote1818]

5. You nailed it!!!! That will put them in a corner! nt

[Disturbed]

7. DSM is only the short version of the possible lies.

It is not "old news" that what many suspected may now be confirmed. Bush may have lied to the Congress about a situation that led Amerika into an illegal Invasion of a sovereign nation of Iraq. If so, that is a High Crime and needs to lead to an Impeachment, Conviction and Punishment of many in the Bush Regime starting with GW Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfailed.

[DefenseLawyer]

8. It was the best damage control Karl could do

"nothing to see here"... "old news".. "no story here, go back to sleep"... Obviously they couldn't confront the facts and implications of the DSM head on, so they did the only thing they could, try to kill the story. And they would have succeeded too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids.

[Quixote1818]

10. Does this make John Conyers Scooby Doo?

He deserves one hell of a Scooby snack!

[Must_B_Free]

6. It's like finding proof of Bush complicity with 911 and saying

that's nothing we didn't already know.

[Erika]

9. Mainstream News will suffer a legacy loss also

They cowered to the likes of Faux/Bushco news and forgot their mission to report the truth. Of course, the intimidation against anyone who dared to speak against Heil Bush was extreme. They along with Bushco/Faux will be known as only mouthpieces of the radical right.

[dbeach]

12. I would add that most MM has failed

I read that many of the MM invest their 401's in the defense industry
so they have an intimate and compelling reason to push war..and its on all the main media..
they are journalists not reporters..they drop lil hints that the war is a good thing

CNN NBC all waved that flag..and the talking heads bobbed for death

Makes me ill.

Some of them were so antiwar in 60s and 70s..then demonized the Vietnam Veterans repeatedly..a stereotype that continues..
"the deranged VN Vet"..such lies are the manna of the media

Now they flipped the pancake and glorify the Iraq war and show human interest stories about what great stuff is happening there to produce democracy..

then they become imbedded and bring ya stories like Jess Lyncch and bypass the first women killed there..A native..and bypass the black women who has some serious problems

MM is imbedded alright..in bed with the busheviks and the decline of this US of A..

Very few exceptions!!

[oblivious]

11. What a shoddy excuse for shoddy reporting -- lack of staff.

Alterman says:
If domestic newspapers and news wire services had a broader or better-staffed network of international bureaus, they wouldn't have to rely on wire reports to govern their coverage – and they might actually be able to break some critical stories.

How many staff does it take to cover the damn story. The Sunday Times of London published the memos on May 2. Somehow thousands of members of DU managed to cover them within hours. Two weeks later, the papers are waiting for AP to write an article? Who needs AP?

[Quixote1818]

13. No Fucking Kidding!

:banghead:

[oblivious]

16. The fact is, we all know the real reason here.

The lying mainstream media avoided reporting the truth in the hope that it would go away. But they have been exposed and they are now trying to cover their sins.

It's just like the Bush/Blair lies to go to war. Yes, everyone knew they were lies, but we didn't have absolute proof. Now we do.

We can't prove absolutely that the media intentionally covered this up for the administration, but we're 100% sure it's true.

Now if only we could get a smoking gun memo from big media organisations confirming this.

It's impossible for them to be this incompetent. They are complicit in the deception.

[kaitykaity]

14. He wants a leak of American classified documents like

the Pentagon Papers.

Doesn't Altermman realize that anyone the Bushies
weren't 100%sure was a bought and paid apprarchick
has been booted from this government?

Bush could be videotapes raping a 7-year-old boy in
broad daylight on the White House lawn and the Beltway
herd would say "we knew he was a pedophile. We don't
care."

[KelleyKramer]

17. Ok, stop pussy footing around damnit

Just say it .. They lied their ass off to start a war.

And we now have written proof.

I understand to have a regular column you have to 'pontificate' but good grief.. dont pussy foot around in a case like this, call a spade a spade.

Our troops are dying every day from this made up from whole cloth LIE!