Now we know, the troops will have died in vain...

[kentuck]

If we were to withdraw now, there would be no justification at all for the deaths of our troops in Iraq. If we give up the fight for democracy in Iraq, the troops have died for lies. They went to war under a stream of lies which they and their families thought were true. It is not a trivial matter. That is why the Downing Street Minutes are not old news. It adds meaning and truth to those families who lost loved ones because of Bush Administration lies...

[H2O Man]

1. They do not care.

You make an important point; the follow-up is that every person injured/killed from now on has also suffered in vain. I will never forget early in the invasion, when there was a father (who looked about my age) who said he had lost his only child. He asked, "And for what?" I'll remember that for the rest of my life. He will, too.

[FloridaPat]

2. We are not there to bring democracy. They may have elections

and what looks like a democratic government, but you can bet the people of Iraq want to keep their banks, their oil, their electic & water companies and not sell them to the highest foreign bidder. You can bet that if they had a choice, they would not be selling their oil to the US. And you can bet they want to use their own seeds to plant. And if Iraq ever gets a government that says otherwise, they will be replaced by the US. We are there for oil not democracy.

And think about it - if Iraq ever stabilizes, we have to leave. You think * wants a stable Iraq? No more money to Hallibuton and other defense contractors?

[KharmaTrain]

3. They Won't Die In Vain...

...if we can remove this regime and prevent this country from playing world policeman for at least another generation. Sadly the lessons of Vietnam weren't learned by those who ducked out on that war and now we, and especially those people, are paying the price.

No matter what, trying to put some military "plus" on these deaths is purely token as this invasion has turned into a major drain. There is no glory in this war...those who are fighting will return to be ignored the same way the Korean and Vietnam vets were...and mostly by the same Repugnicans who have so much bloodlust in their eyes right now.

[atreides1]

4. When you die for a lie

You've already died in vain, so your solution is to have more deaths
of military and civilians for some perverted definition of "meaning".

It was never about WMD's(lie), or bringing democracy(lie), or freeing the Iraqi people(lie), it was always about control of the one resource that Iraq has, OIL!!!

The 1700+ have already die in vain, their sacrifices have no meaning, they did not die for an honorable cause, they died for nothing. The sooner everyone realizes that they died for nothing more them a hadnful of greedy men and women, who would shed the
blood of our loved ones to fill their pockets, the better.

There was no justification and there still is no justification for our presence in Iraq, and no matter how the talking heads or the
enablers try to spin it, there will never be any justification.

[malmapus]

9. True but..

I had been under the firm belief that they died in vain because this war was based on lies.

BUT

If there are changes in this country after this shit, and we as a country learn and kick out Bush and his administration. Iunno, if there is good that comes to us after this...then maybe their sacrifices were not wholly in vain.

[Toots]

5. Are you saying if we stay and allow more deaths it is somehow justified?

You said.. "If we were to withdraw now, there would be no justification at all for the deaths of our troops in Iraq."
How am I supposed to take that statement? I take it to mean you think we should stay as justification for all the fatalities. I say the sooner we are out the sooner we can try and ask forgiveness for our crimes. None of these dead have a legitimat purpose in dying. IMHO

[kentuck]

6. No...I'm saying that is the only justification they have left...

Now that their lies have been exposed. What else do the families have to cling to?

[H2O Man]

7. The truth. n/t

[ElectroPrincess]

8. I bet you didn't live through the Vietnam Era?

Otherwise you would not make such a patently ignorant assumption. Every DAY we stay there, we are degrading our country more. We must pull out now!

How many more thousands of our troops and Iraqi innocent civilians MUST DIE before the warmongers realize we ain't buying the propaganda?

Yes, there will be civil war when we leave, but the overall carnage will be a lot less than if we try to "stay the course."

What? We think THESE PEOPLE are savages and it takes THE EMPIRE to work out a solution. Bull Shit!

This is a war that was started on A LIE! LIES upon LIES! And now "MORE LIES" to keep us there.

Pull our troops out now!

[kentuck]

10. I bet you don't read posts very closely...

Otherwise, you would know that I spent two tours in Vietnam and am making the point that indeed, these soldiers did die in vain, because they have no other justification now except to stay and bring democracy to that country.