Do you think there is a concious Conspiracy in Washington?

[Terran1212]

I've been thinking about this alot. I recently had some inside experiences in the government (seeing congress, going to their offices, roleplaying with homeland security, sister interning at homeland conspiracy) and have been reading a lot of alternative thought (chomsky, zinn), and I've been pondering one question:

Is there a concious conspiracy inside Washington to maintain the capitalist, militarist society we exist in? America has always been the most powerful and most miltaristic nation with interventions all over the world. We've always been ruled by a rich elite since our founding. The public has never been in control of this nation. It's always powerful groups that make decisions behind closed doors. The media is consolidated by these powerful groups. Everyone believes that 2 rich white men can represent a good choice for 300 million individuals for a president.

Is there a concious conspiracy at all levels of our government to suppress populist democracy and prop up militaristic capitalism?

Your opinions.

[autorank]

1. Well, if you don't then you're a "coincidence theorist"

:shrug:

I suspect it's more endemic and institutionalized at some levels and conscious at others. But don't you know, we're not allowed to use "conspiracy" or people call us "fraudsters" or delusional or worse.

It's all just one big "coincidence" now isn't it! ;)

[countmyvote4real]

2. Duh? n/t

[yurbud]

3. think in terms of local politics, and don't call it a conspiracy

think of it as favors and knowing who your daddy is.

I've had some involvement at the local level, and there it's all about paying back donors with government contracts at the expense of all else.

If the contracts are worth hundreds of billions instead of mere millions, I'm sure the dynamic is the same.

It is not so much that populist democracy is suppressed as it is ignored until it gets too big, then someone has to get shot like MLK.

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[jojo54]

4. Just look at all the lies we've had to put with

the last 5 years.

[gumby]

5. "Democracy" is the process of

the people protecting themselves from the "conspiracy" of power/money.

The powerful have ALWAYS "conspired" to protect their power and privilege. Democracy is the force that opposes them.

Unfortunately, the conspirators have been very successful at convincing 'the people' that abolishing democracy is in their best interest. The rich and powerful can pay for an awful lot of psy/ops. Too bad it works so well.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[JackRiddler]

7. How is this a "conspiracy"?

Maintaining the ownership of the productive wealth by a vanishing small number of families... the rule of capital over society... maintaining the imperial dominance of the US military worldwide... perks for high income earners... the principle that business should be accommodated in all ways and in proportion to its size... the centralization of the media... the globalist project... the idea that the majority of the tax take should go into war or payoffs directly to banks... policing the poor on behalf of the rich... all these are the openly stated, intended policies of the system, as celebrated daily in the pages of the Wall Street Journal.

It has nothing to do with "conspiracy."

[Terran1212]

16. An Open Conspiracy, the first of its kind?

Control of the population through very open and supposedly "democratic" means?

[JackRiddler]

18. the word for "open conspiracy" is an old one

Class. This is what Americans are not supposed to talk about. Especially not the ruling class, which is so small in number that its members can be named and necessarily turn into a cabal by owning everything and networking with each other.

When you talk about class in the mainstream, the response invariably labels you a "conspiracy theorist."

(The irony is that fellows like Chomsky get called conspiracy theorists for pointing out how class and institutions work; then they come over to the critics' ghetto and call others conspiracy theorists for pointing out that institutions consist of particular members who also commit crimes a la JFK and 9/11.)

[Old and In the Way]

8. Seems that the naked agression is getting more overt.

Perhaps the internet has changed the paradigm, though. Mass, 2 way communication has changed the way we process information. Up until the early 90's, we had a traditional 1 way information communication system. The internet has collects, disseminates information at a rate that can no longer be controlled. It may take a decade or two, but I think there may eventually be a revolutionary seachange in the people's expectations of our government and the internet will be the medium that drives this change.

[ebayfool]

13. I think you're right @ the aggression - it's more open & extreme ...

I hope you're right @ rest! It feels right, but it also feels precarious.

[Old and In the Way]

9. Dupe

[LuPeRcALiO]

10. yes

it's called the Republican party

[burrowowl]

11. No not a conspiracy

it is the Fascist/Corporatist plan for getting what they want.
If People were awake it is visible for all to see.

[The Magistrate]

12. An Old Friend's Line Seems Apt Here, Ma'am

"One man's conspiracy is another man's business plan."

[burrowowl]

24. LOL eom

[dbt]

14. I disagree with your use of the singular, other than that

HELL YES, there's a conscious Conspiracy--or collusion or whatever you'd like to call it. Trouble is, there are quite a few of them, serving as subroutines for the Master Program/Pogrom.

:freak:

[AndyTiedye]

15. It's Not Capitalism Anymore After Robber Barons Buy the Government

If we still had a capitalist system, Ken Lay would be in jail for
bilking investors and robbing his own company. Criminals like Lay
undermine the whole capitalist system, and such offenses would be
taken very seriously.

If we still had a capitalist system, Halliburton would not have no-bid
contracts for practically everything to do with the Iraq war.

This isn't capitalism.

[Javaman]

17. Use new speak to reach the masses...

Collaborative effort instead of conspiracy. As soon as you use conspiracy, expect the mass media to label you as a tin foil hat wearer.

And to answer your question. yes.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. The only real war is the class war, baby

In answer to your question, most definitely! But now that you get it, you can help to spread the wealth of knowledge...Read "The Political Economy of Human Rights" by Chomsky and Herman for some stunning examples, as well as (of course) "Manufacturing Consent", "Necessary Illusions", and "Understanding Power"

[davekriss]

20. "Conspiracy" is too strong a word...

...though there are surely many transitory conspiracies in DC. You read Chomsky, you say; think of it as "filters" that provide strong pressures for behaviors and ideas that conform to the idealogies that perpetuate a ruling elite.

Writing in 1980 Betram Gross, near the end of Friendly Fascism, asks what would happen if by accident a truly progressive President came into office? Would we suddenly have national healthcare? Would corporations begin to pay their fair share in taxes? Would the trees in our forests and workers in our industrial plants suddenly be safe from harm? Would women and children the world over not have to shiver in fear when they hear the roar of American jets overhead? The answer is no. The Progressive President would be rendered harmless and ineffectual by the powerful tools of elites acting in their narrow self-interest.

The press would amplify every rumor, from questionable sources of campaign contributions, to rumors of philandering; they'd even attack when the Progressive President uses the military to protect us from what he already declared the greatest threat to our nation and accuse him of "wagging the tail". The Senate and House would fail to follow the President's lead, leaving his agenda undone. The President would be harrangued from office and declared an example of the folly of electing someone outside the mainstream -- the word "mainstream", of course, as defined for us by elites through us of the press that they own, the think tanks they fund, the politicians they bankroll.

But the chances of a truly progressive President ever getting elected are slim to none. I've oft said, there are two votes in America: The Dollar Vote followed by the Democratic Vote. Nothing gets on the agenda of the Democratic Vote that does not first pass the Dollar Vote. Now the problem with this situation is that those with more dollars get to vote more often than those of us without. The result is a narrowing of the democratic agenda to just those things that, first, do no harm to the interests of elites, and second to those things that advance elite priviledge and advantage still further.

The illusion of freedom in America will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.
--Frank Zappa, 1977

Living today at the brink of summer, 2005, I see the curtains begin to part and see the stream of brownshirts ready to move away the furniture between us and the brick wall. A few months, a few years -- not very long and the veil of illusion will drop for those of us with eyes to see.

One thing, though, truth and justice and the hunger for equality never die away. Like termites we nibble away at the foundations of the powerful and, as a result, we have the bloody march of history. There have been victories; there has been a widening of consciousness in what is right and good. Freedom breaks out from time to time. (Such is my hope and vision.)

[Terran1212]

22. Exactly the kind of answer I was looking for...

Thanks for the intelligent answer. There definitely are some things Americans need to wake up to. But how much exactly can we fight? They have the entire military, police, secret police, media ... everything. It's like fighting some kind of dictatorship.

[davekriss]

23. How do we do it?

These are tough times, there is no doubt about it. But it reminds me of 1980.

Back then I was going to a prestigious school (English Lit -- yeah, I wasn't very good!). My girlfriend at the time was best friends with another woman, W., who lived with an activist leader, R. W. and R. were the perfect couple: Smart, attractive, graduates from a top-shelf university, and most importantly very much in love.

R. had a graduate degree in political science. W., like my girlfriend, had a theater undergrad. R., despite his top-shelf schooling, worked as a pizza chef in a cheap resturant during the evenings, but during the day was organizing and handing out leaflets for the Revolutionary Workers Party in very dangerous poor neighborhoods. My girlfriend and I met, through R., nationally infamous activists, some at the time receiving unwanted mainstream press coverage. All were committed and diligent and cheerful and worked very hard.

One day W. showed up at my job (I was still in school then and waiting tables). She said she decided to leave R. She came from an affluent family and the draw of a house in the 'burbs surrounded by a white picket fence was just too much. Besides, she said, she felt like R.'s mistress. He was married to the cause.

After they split I talked to R. He had given up so much. A mainstream career, a beautiful smart witty creative woman. To add to his woe, Reagan had just been elected. I recall telling him it looks like the Revolution is way off, how can he do it? His answer (not verbatim, it was a long time ago): "I carry the torch, that's enough. Thousands preceded me, thousands stand with me now, and thousands will follow me. I keep great company, Dave."

R. would agree with Noam:

If you assume that there's no hope, you guarantee that there will be no hope. If you assume that there is an instinct for freedom, there are opportunities to change things, there's a chance you may contribute to making a better world. That's your choice.
-- Noam Chomsky

Just how to contribute: Well, a pop-philosopher from the time was going around saying "Don't ask how you can change the world -- you will just paralyze yourself into inaction -- ask instead what you can do to change this ordinance, help that person, and you will get much done."

[moof]

27. How do we do it? Yes, the ultimate example of dissonance.

It seems anyone with the ability to see what is taking place understands
what it will take to finally change what is happening.
But therein lies the irony, anyone with that much vision also realizes that to follow the path that needs to be taken is to join the opposition in deserting principals, ethics and becoming what is most hated in those that rule now, no regard for fellow human beings.

Maybe they can be defeated in other ways but common sense says
it seems unlikely that a great cardplayer no matter how great cannot beat a riverboat gambler that is willing to call it winning when they have to cheat to do it.

[davekriss]

28. I can't agree

"to follow the path that needs to be taken is to join the opposition in deserting principals"

It seems to me that the trajectory of history has been toward a greater freedom for many, a breakout here and there of democracy for some, a growing respect for human rights and resistance to tyranny. I grant you that we are faced with sometimes hugely tragic setbacks, but what is true and right is slowly emerging from the swamp of our primordial existence.

African-Americans once had to ride in the back of the bus; Billy Holiday once sang of "strange fruit" swinging from a tree; women, today, can vote; children under 16 cannot work in our factories; Presidents will be impeached for lying us into wars; more mentally ill are treated today rather than imprisoned. The general consciousness has inched its way toward peace, justice, and freedom. Despite the tyrants, torturous regimes, and other cancers that are shaken off the social body like so much unwelcome dirt.

These gains were accomplished, not by abandonment of progressive principles, but by holding to them through trials and tribulations. Those that stand with endurance for truth and justice and freedom are like braces applying steady pressure to crooked teeth, eventually things get straightened out.

[moof]

29. If you are under the impression that there is a president let alone one

that risks being taken to task for actions taken on behalf of corporate handlers you are excused your disagreement.

[davekriss]

31. LOL -- but Bush is one of those hugely tragic setbacks I refer to

(Note my avatar. I'm just one of your run of the mill, bleary-eyed non-violent-pacificist-anarcho-syndicalists here.)

It appears that you would abandon the values we hold dear to engage in battle with the Dark Side. For example, since they hate us, you might use hatred of "them" as a tool to motivate and marshal actions that lead to progressive ends (as a means to progressive ends). In my thinking, we need to invent progressive means that example our values, not defer them to some future "ends". Otherwise, what are we fighting for? Along the way our hatred will engender the same pain and misery and resentment that our enemies bring forth, our acts become the opposite side of their coin. I say drop that one and mint our own without hatred in the metallurgic mix!

Hatred ever kills, love never dies such is the vast difference between the two. What is obtained by love is retained for all time. What is obtained by hatred proves a burden in reality for it increases hatred.
-- Mohandes K. Ghandi

If we invaded Iraq out of authentic love for the suffering people, they would indeed have greeted us with flowers and quickly sproutedc buds of a Jeffersonian democracy. But sadly its clear we invaded out out hatred -- out of our own selfish political ecomomic interests. So women and children had to die, based on Bush lies about WMD and imminent threat, based on the evil policies of pre-emptive attack spelled out in the NSS/ So it's no wonder they welcome our soldiers, not with flowers, but with bullets and bombs. It's become unending inner-city guerilla warfare, draining our treasury and dividing our nation while war profiteers laugh giddy all the way to the bank.

[moof]

34. bleary-eyed non-violent pacificist anarcho syndicalist are never

run of the mill even though inclusion in their numbers would not
out of the question for the moof hut.

While it is easy to draw the conclusion you mention,

"It appears that you would abandon the values we hold dear to engage in battle with the Dark Side."

from what was posted, it was a recognition of reality rather than a call to action. It is more than a little amazing that anyone that sees what
is likely coming in order to restore order and bring balance to the force is unwilling to take the first steps towards it because it means
the dark side or insanity judging from the scale of the task.

A line from a old DU post keeps coming to mind

Some politians have "nuts" that try to kill them
those that survive the attempts all appear to belong to the same party.

[theboss]

21. I don't know if it's a conspiracy

I think it's just America....

[Terran1212]

25. Maybe not...

Still wondering, up for discussion DU

[LightningFlash]

26. It's not a conspiracy, it's plain as day.

Tom DeLay and a bunch of truly evil bent wingers are protecting a massively guilty War Criminal of a pResident on purpose. Up until the final hour.

[Cleita]

30. Oh, absolutely, but previous governments have always

thrown the populace some crumbs to keep them from revolting. But now, they are attempting to take away the crumbs we have. They have no idea what this is going to result in. They are going too far.

[leftofthedial]

32. there is a widespread conscious sell-out to corporate lobbyists

who relentlessly represent the interests you describe

[Eloriel]

33. No.

There's a conscious conspiracy among a few elite in Washington, mostly in govt., to make this a fascist state AND to dominate and control the globe. Star Wars is part of that plan for global domination, btw.

The conspirators are called Neo-Cons, and they put together their game plan in a document you can read online, at the Project for a New American Project (PNAC) website.

Here's some stuff about PNAC. The document you want at the first link is Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century. You'll want to schedule several hours to go through Stephanie's thread:

PNAC
PNAC Publications page: http://www.newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm

New to DU? Here's your =======> Intro to PNAC (Stephanie)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=301411

A repost thread: New to DU? Here's oyour =======> Intro to PNAC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1069536

[Deja Q]

35. Dunno, but if evidence exists or is suggested, then it should be pursued.

After all, they were on Clinton's tail every time he sneezed.