US war resistors don't count on Canada to be your safe haven.

[JohnyCanuck]

The author of the article below enunciates precisely my concerns and my own speculation as to what might happen down the road if we can't get those corrupt, power mad, PNAC/neocon/Reich wingers away from the levers of power.

Canada's Oil Reserves Attract U.S., As American Media Talk About Canada Annexation.

The American corporate news media often pave the way for upcoming actions by the USA government, as was demonstrated in the propaganda run-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. With significance that should not be under-estimated, the United States mainstream news media are now publicly discussing the effective incorporation of Canada in a common security zone over the next few years, with Canadians under the control of America's Homeland Security agency.

The American fantasy of effectively controlling Canada, is encouraged by the enhanced value of Canada's massive tar sands oil reserves. Now that updated technology and oil prices have made the extraction of this oil more feasible, Canada's oil reserves are now seen as perhaps the second largest holding of oil reserves in the entire world. And these reserves are right on the doorstep of the United States, a fact that is very significant to U.S. security planners.

<snip>

With America sliding more and more into a right-wing extremism, many Americans are already starting to go abroad and take refuge in Canada and elsewhere. Given a forthcoming economic downturn in the United States, with new phases of civil discontent and repression, that flow of refugees may become a quite large flood over the border. A lot of strange things are happening inside America, as U.S. politicians become increasingly disconnected from the American people. It could get very, very ugly, and the Canadian border is the escape route that comes readily to mind for unhappy Americans.

With Canadians and ex-Americans both criticizing the United States from Canadian territory, and perhaps some new major violent events inside the USA by either their own citizens or foreigners, it would be fairly easy for the USA to drum up a phony story claiming that violence inside America, was somehow planned or incited in Canada, or that the bad people travelled from Canada to enter the USA. This could be the pretext for a security "takeover" of Canadian territory, including the Alberta oil fields, which are of course "essential" to United States national security.

http://bannedinamerica.blogspot.com/2005/06/canadas-oil-reserves-attract-us-as.html

[alexwcovington]

1. Really?

Not that I'm one to watch CNN much, but this does suprise me.

[Oversea Visitor]

2. No way

Canada like it or not is part of the Commonwealth Countries. For a good idea how big the Commonwealth please do your research.

[JohnyCanuck]

6. Which of the commonwealth countries is going to do didly squat?

Two of the bigger Commonwealth military powers the UK and Australia are pretty much in Uncle Sam's hip pocket already (even if they weren't, what the heck would they do? Declare war on the US to save Canada?), and if you are going to expect India (the only other commonwealth country with a half decent military of any size) to send troops half way across the world to defend Canada from a US takeover, forget it. So what's left? Well here's the list of the Commonwealth countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Commonwealth_Members_by_name

Even if every last one of them joined together, they probably couldn't come up with an army the size of the Buffalo NY police department. And diplomatically what can they do? Lodge a stiff diplomatic protest at the UN for John Bolton (or some other neocon stooge)to tear up while laughing to himself?

And remember it's not likely they would be so crude as to stage a full scale invasion à la Iraq. Instead I see it playing out as the author in the article describes with the usual black ops bullshit of staged and bogus terror attacks or LIHOP (let it happen on purpose) terrorist attacks which are found to have "originated from Canada". It wouldn't hurt either to help get the Canadian population on side as well if some of these "terrorist" attacks took place on Canadian soil.

Next we'll hear that the US is offering to send troops into Canada to "help" our undermanned, underfunded and under equipped armed forces to defend those Canadian oil fields and tar sands plants from the terrorist evil doers, and it would only be the decent thing to do for Canada to allow this to happen in order to ensure the security of both Canada and our neighbor, ally and biggest trading partner (they will never let you forget the last one) to the south from terrorist attack.

Once the premise is accepted that the terrorists are attacking from Canada, and US armed forces personnel are stationed on Canadian territory then the next logical step to follow would be to do to have our police forces and CSIS (Canadian Security and Intelligence Service) come under the direction of Homeland Security to ensure that there is proper coordination and tracking of terrorist movements.

The sad thing is (I know other Canadian DUers have disagreed with me on this), but after listening to the brain dead people I hear calling in on the local talk shows, I think there would be a large proportion of the Canadian population who would fall for the propaganda/brainwashing and think it was just great that our friends to the South were sending their military into Canada and coming to our "assistance."

Is the Annexation of Canada part of Bush's Military Agenda?
by Michel Chossudovsky

For nearly two years now, Ottawa has been quietly negotiating a far-reaching military cooperation agreement, which allows the US Military to cross the border and deploy troops anywhere in Canada, in our provinces, as well station American warships in Canadian territorial waters. This redesign of Canada's defense system is being discussed behind closed doors, not in Canada, but at the Peterson Air Force base in Colorado, at the headquarters of US Northern Command (NORTHCOM).

The creation of NORTHCOM announced in April 2002, constitutes a blatant violation of both Canadian and Mexican territorial sovereignty. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced unilaterally that US Northern Command would have jurisdiction over the entire North American region. Canada and Mexico were presented with a fait accompli. US Northern Command's jurisdiction as outlined by the US DoD includes, in addition to the continental US, all of Canada, Mexico, as well as portions of the Caribbean, contiguous waters in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans up to 500 miles off the Mexican, US and Canadian coastlines as well as the Canadian Arctic.

NorthCom's stated mandate is to "provide a necessary focus for (continental) aerospace, land and sea defenses, and critical support for (the) nation’s civil authorities in times of national need."

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO411C.html

[Oversea Visitor]

7. You

be surprise at the Commonwealth strength. Its the role where each of its members can play. Its not the UN it does not even has a military pact. Its more the fact that the people feel they part of a bigger picture... the commonwealth.

Like you say UK and Australia are in and they have to take a stand, something are just off limit.

Oh India well they have a pact with Brazil Russia and China but India is in the Commonwealth and so can assert an influnce on this.

At the end of the day the Commonwealth if it make a stand can lock US down totally. Who can US call on ????

I am from a Commonwealth country and yes I can say my country will react if another commonwealth country is invaded.

[JohnyCanuck]

10. But suppose Canada asks the US to come to our assistance

on the premise that there are terrorist cells operating out of Canada that are targeting both Canada and the US. That's the point the author in the original article was driving at. The US is not likely just to march in one day and say, "Hi look folks, we're invading Canada because we need their oil and water, and they wouldn't give them to us. So now we're just gonna take them?"

There will be a well thought out plan of propaganda and brainwashing to prepare the ground and make us believe we in Canada were under threat by terrorists ourselves. We'd be told that if we didn't do something about it, it was likely Canadian lives would be in jeopardy and our relationship to our US ally (AND BIGGEST TRADING PARTNER) would be severely damaged, the border shut down etc. etc. The Canadian business establishment would be bleating loudly in the newspapers and on the TV we just could not allow this to happen and the pressure would be on the Canadian politicians to accept US offers of "help," i.e. stationing US troops in Canada and much closer integration of the security, police, customs and immigration services.

After it was all said and done, there might well be a thin veneer of Canadian sovereignty left, but to all intents and purposes our armed forces would be be well integrated into the US defense establishment and homeland security would be running the show as far as the RCMP and CSIS were concerned while our politicians will have substantially lost much of their freedom to set an independent foreign and domestic policy.

So what's the Commonwealth going to do now?

[Oversea Visitor]

8. Since you have search it

You will know we have 53 nations under the commonwealth. This same 53 are in all kind of grouping and pacts.

Just for discussion sake if the Commonwealth issue and ultimatium to the US to withdraw or face a war you think the US can win this war.
Get real.

[JohnyCanuck]

11. Not that I believe the Commonwealth could, or would, offer

any meaningful opposition to an outright US invasion of Canada, but that's besides the point because it would be unlikely to happen that way. See my post #10

[Oversea Visitor]

13. Ok noted

Its all a question of justification. If Canada is supporting terrorist then its unlikely the commonwealth will act. However if its a frame out charge then commonwealth will react.

The only thing holding the commonwealth together is because nation dont have any obligation except to say we are a commonwealth country.
There is no economical pact no military pact, some even call it a toothless tiger and its true cause as a grouping the commonwealth nation never ever use this strength. But dont ever confuse it with the red tape of the UN. Something are just off limit.

[Journeyman]

3. Google NAWAPA -- the North American Water & Power Alliance. . .

if you're truly interested in Canada's fate. Only their oil is such a small part of it . . . when the push comes, Canadian water will be the prize. This has been on the burner since the early 1950s.

[Puzzler]

4. yeah but...

... wouldn't the US face problems with Canadian terrorist insurgents?


-P

[Oversea Visitor]

5. Or the Armies of the

Commonwealth haha.

[Journeyman]

9. We'll take your water in exchange for food. . .

What will you want? Food, or free flowing water rushing unimpeded to the sea?

And of course there will be insurgents and the like -- quite a few of them from this side of the border, I'm sure, and many of the most violent to boot -- but with the quantity of money that would be on the table I imagine there'd be enough Canadians who'll sell what they can. Heck, there was enough interest in the mid-'60s to get the idea some serious consideration at the highest levels in the Canadian government. Wait until all the troubles begin and then see what becomes possible. . .

[izzie]

12. Hard to think this could go on.

I do not think the USA has as much power as most people think. In fact I think the rest of the world has seen the 'writing on the wall' when we could not take down 1000 to 20000??????????? men with small arms in Iraq and had to pay tribes to win????????? in our other war. We seem to have the 'greatest' stuff on our mind where as the rest of the world seems to be doing very well without us.

[Amonester]

14. With all due respect...

"our" oil is already owned by U.S. Big Oil subsidiaries here... I mean, these supposedly Canadian corporations are nothing else than U.S. multinationals' spawns in reality. Considering the fact that taxpayers in the U.S. have already thrown away close to 300 billions into the money pit (and still pay higher and higher bills at the gas pump...), why would they even have to charge a few more billions on their national credit card to invade us? For something their piggy corporations already own??

Then there's the "water" question... Ok, we'll sell it to ya at some real bargain price, otay?

:scared:

[JohnyCanuck]

15. It would be more than just access to oil and water and other resources.

why would they even have to charge a few more billions on their national credit card to invade us? For something their piggy corporations already own?


If they were to implement martial law or other drastic measures in the US further impinging on the rights and liberties of the US population along with a draft to shore up a crumbling army, then there'd quite likely be a large flood of refugees and draft dodgers heading to Canada. It would not be in the Bushite's interest to allow a free and unfettered democracy to flourish on their Northern border as a haven for draft dodgers and US critics while they are clamping down on human rights and freedom in a big way in the US and sending US boys and girls off to pound sand and breath Depleted Uranium dust in the deserts of the Middle East.

Note that I do not think it likely they would stage an outright invasion, but through black ops and phony or LIHOP terrorism incidents etc. Canada would be propagandized and manipulated into asking for US help in controlling subversive elements and terrorists cells operating from Canada which posed a threat to Canada and the US. It would be under this type of scenario that I could foresee see a push for the stationing of US troops on Canadian soil along with a closer integration of our police, security and immigration/customs services with Homeland Security and curtailments on our own politicians ability to enact and enforce laws for the benefit of Canadians.

There is also still the matter of controlling the oil. It was in the news recently that China was making overtures to gain access into the tar sands development in order to ship tar sands derived oil to China. If peak oil pans out to be as economically disastrous as some forecast, the US could very well feel it necessary to guarantee their access to the resource by having troops stationed in Canada and/or compliant Canadian politicians who will make sure that no US competitors are allowed to compete for access to Canadian oil.

[Amonester]

16. I guess we'll have to wait and see, because

I, for one, just wish the current barbarian regime will be long gone (and locked up?) before any of these scenarios could even begin to come true (I have big doubts they ever would...).

And about the COs who would seek refuge on this side of the border, I read something about it were it was stated that, even if a draft would be passed in the U.S., there has been formal agreements between the two governments that, contrary to what happened during the Vietnam years, Canada would just "return" them back to where they came from. :(

I suspect this "agreement" to have been "signed" while * was here on is first (and last, I hope...) official visit... OTOH, "we" would not be capable to "offer" such a "great" resistance if the criminal barbarian regime ever decided to invade us...

Although a few individuals can still buy some arms, illegally, through a few First Nation's borders, not too many in the overall population do own any rifles (and not just because they have the obligation to register them to the government by "a costly" law)... Well, not me anyway. There's nothing I resent more than any firearm!

Plus, look at the crap the military buys from the Brits (i.g.: the Chicoutimi "submarine"), for example... Not much to resist with, hey?

:rofl:

Yeah, I'd pull out the white flag in one hand, and make a peace sign with the other!! Oh... AND a BIG bouquet of roses too!!!

:spray:

[Oversea Visitor]

17. The real challenge Us face is China

Just a matter of time before China become the number 1 nation in the world.