Does anyone know how many native Americans

[burythehatchet]

were exterminated or killed in battle during the European conquest of America?

[Mythsaje]

1. Far too many...

the numbers, no...

Sorry

[Warpy]

9. But far fewer than were killed by the new diseases

that Europeans brought with them.

Something like 90% died of disease within two years of first contact, at least in the east.

It was a holocaust of disease and warfare, but the disease was surely the worst part of it.

[Mythsaje]

13. At least some of that

was unintentional.

[burythehatchet]

17. I'm starting to learn that the victors write the history books

why wouldn't the white man have contracted the diseases of the native?

[Kraklen]

25. Well, they did.

Small pox was a tremendous problem for Europeans in the late 18th century. Because of that, and the Plague, and a host of other diseases, Europeans and a much better immune system for those specific diseases. Which is why they could sell the Native Americans small pox ridden blankets and get away with it.

[lenidog]

2. No body knows because no one knows how many there were at

any time during the conquest of America. All we have is educated guesses.

[cynatnite]

3. There were an estimated 20 million native americans

prior to europeans coming here. The numbers got down to about 150,000 people at their lowest point.

This is what we were told in Native American History when I was in college.

[Mika]

6. It was 400 yrs of multigenerational conquest..

.. so a simple count of total pop #s from one date to another severely under counts the total.

I've seen figures that range from 70 mil to 170 mil. :shrug:

[enigami]

4. Most of them?

If you include smallpox.

[burythehatchet]

8. Smallpox had to do

because chemical weapons were not yet available I suppose.

[cynatnite]

10. Starvation as well

There was obscene neglect on the reservations which lead to a lot of death. There were also forced marches. Check out the Trail of Tears. I call that a massacre.

[CatWoman]

29. and don't forget the near extermination of the buffalo

the buffalo provided Natives with not only food, but clothing, tools, shelter, etc.

[CatWoman]

5. ....

"By conservative estimates, the population of the United states prior to European contact was greater than 12 million. Four centuries later, the count was reduced by 95% to 237 thousand.

http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans.html

[burythehatchet]

7. get my point?

Its not like this culture isn't capable of it.

[CatWoman]

16. Selected Death Tolls for Wars, Massacres and Atrocities

Before the 20th Century

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm#20worst

[EFerrari]

19. Is this an illegal immigration thread?

:)

[burythehatchet]

20. I've always said "Native Americans had a Horrible Immigration Policy"

[Kraklen]

26. I'm here because of the Native American immigration policy.

So I've really got no moral business complaining about it, or other lax immigration policies.

[burythehatchet]

27. didn't work out too good for them

[Kraklen]

28. Yeah.

But that was because of murdering, raping, pillaging white men.

It's not like it was because of perfectly peaceful hardworking mexicans or anything non-threateninglike that.

[whistle]

11. The Spanish pretty much wiped out the Aztecs of Mexico and ....

...the Incas of Peru. Mexico had a 25 million and Perus and Chile had some 14 million people spread across their empires. Between war and diseases they wiped out over than 95%. The Portuguese were ruthless against the natives in the Amazon rain forest areas and river basin. There were also natives living in the islands of the Caribbean which were reduced and exterminated. Perhaps as many as 5 million or more of these people were killed.

Then the American settlements by the British and French began their push against the coastal tribes on the east coast and into the Upper and Lower Canada regions around the St Laurence River and the Great Lakes. Where there was resistance from the Iroquois and Mohican's the white Europeans slaughtered and subdued and starved the natives. But it was the Americans who committed the greatest acts of genocide. The great push westward resulted in the resettlement of whole nations on special reservations where they were exploited, starved and subjected to wholesale murder.

<snip>
Native American Genocide Still Haunts United States
By Leah Trabich
Cold Spring Harbor High School
New York, USA

In the past, the main thrust of the Holocaust/Genocide Project's magazine, An End To Intolerance, has been the genocides that occurred in history and outside of the United States. Still, what we mustn't forget is that mass killing of Native Americans occurred in our own country. As a result, bigotry and racial discrimination still exist.

"In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue" . . . and made the first contact with the "Indians." For Native Americans, the world after 1492 would never be the same. This date marked the beginning of the long road of persecution and genocide of Native Americans, our indigenous people. Genocide was an important cause of the decline for many tribes.

"By conservative estimates, the population of the United states prior to European contact was greater than 12 million. Four centuries later, the count was reduced by 95% to 237 thousand.

In 1493, when Columbus returned to the Hispaniola, he quickly implemented policies of slavery and mass extermination of the Taino population of the Caribbean. Within three years, five million were dead. Las Casas, the primary historian of the Columbian era, writes of many accounts of the horrors that the Spanish colonists inflicted upon the indigenous population: hanging them en mass, hacking their children into pieces to be used as dog feed, and other horrid cruelties. The works of Las Casas are often omitted from popular American history books and courses because Columbus is considered a hero by many, even today.

<more>
<link> http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans.html

<other link> http://www.millersv.edu/~columbus/data/art/STANN-01.ART

[Tsiyu]

12. Also under-reported is the slavery

of Native Americans. There are many a mean tale which shall never be told....

[CatWoman]

15. Did you know that some natives kept African American slaves?

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/wpa/davis1.html

[Kraklen]

21. They were more of a "equal opportunity slavers" though...

weren't they? African Americans, whites, other tribes...

[CatWoman]

23. Dunno -

they were no more "equal opportunity" than whites I suppose.

Whites never met a race they didn't try to enslave.

[Kraklen]

24. Agreed.

I think the Native American practice of "slavery" was utterly and completely different. "Slaves" were considered members of the tribes, had personal freedoms, etc. Sacajawea, she was a "slave" before marrying the Frenchmen and then returning to her home tribe with Lewis and Clark.

I really don't know that much about it. White people killed Native Americans off before there was much documentation.

[Tsiyu]

30. No doubt

Rotten folks in every race, eh Catwoman?

[Zen Democrat]

14. There were 3 million killed after Columbus ravaged Hispanola.

3 million Arawaks were killed according to the young priest Bartolome de las Casas. Read the first chapter of Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States."

The number of millions killed in this hemisphere is incalculable.

[burythehatchet]

18. The point of the thread is that it is not such a huge leap

to imagine what we are capable of inflicting. The Nazis could not kill fast enough. If they had more technology they would have killed many more. This cabal today has more technology. How many millions do you suppose one nuclear missle will inflict? These people are not far from there.

[CatWoman]

22. you really have to watch "Auschwitz: Inside the Nazi State"

it's out on DVD now.

It documents the Nazi killing machine, from it's beginning to end.

They tried firing squads, but needed alternate methods due to the trauma inflicted on the soldiers doing the killing. Too up close and personal.

They next tried dynamiting them. Still too bloody, and up close and personal.

When they first started using gas, it was limited to rigged vans and such.

They finally graduated to the huge chambers, and the rest is history.