Why do Bible Belters ignore torture at Guantanamo?

[BurtWorm]

A question posed by

Mark A. R. Kleiman
A weblog for the reality-based community

http://www.markarkleiman.com/archives/spirituality_and_religion_/2005/06/evolution_morality_and_torture.php

The account in Genesis, whether believed literally or accepted as a morally relevant metaphor, provides a very direct and convincing argument in favor of universal human rights. Torture, for example, is on this view a desecration of the Image of God, and that remains true no matter how much the person tortured "had it coming." Even Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot are, according to Genesis, Images of God. (One of the Lutheran pastors who was sent to a concentration camp for his opposition to Naziism recounted after the war his earlier meeting with Hitler. "He looked like any ordinary man," said the pastor. "Like Christ, that is.") On the Biblical view, that makes their crimes more horrible, but it also profoundly constrains what can legitimately be done to them in response.

One of Andrew Sullivan's correspondents, a Christian theologian, raises this issue in connection with the torture at Guantanamo. "As a fellow Christian," he writes, " I am grieved and appalled at what is going on. It is an ambomination, a desecration of the image of God which no child of God should allow to be undertaken in the name of their self-defense."

Of course, support for torture is strongest precisely where opposition to the teaching of evolution is most vehement, suggesting that what seems to me the obvious message of Genesis isn't obvious to everyone who reads -- or pretends to read -- the Bible. (A recent poll found that, among those who say that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, a third can't name its first book, and half can't say who preached the Sermon on the Mount.) But that merely shows what we already knew: that Christianism as a political movement is as distinct from Christianity as a religion as Islamicism is from Islam.

Still, I'd love to hear someone ask one of the Bible-thumping defenders of the Gitmo horrors why he feels justified in approving the defacement of the Image of God.

[Tweed]

1. Because they don't really care about Christian values

They care about 'prudence' and being blissful.

[Lars39]

2. Simple answer: they believe in a smiting God, a vengeful God.

[BOSSHOG]

3. Why do christian conservatives force children to have sex with dogs?

As is the case of church members in Ponchatoula, Louisiana who are awaiting trial on those and similar charges. Why do christian men beat their wives and have sex with their daughters? And on and on and on down the hypocrisy highway which never gets any light shed on it from the pulpit.

To answer those and your question: Because they are religiously insane.

[atreides1]

4. They Don't Care About Christian Values

Their faith isn't in God, it's in man, it's in material gain and the power to control others lives. To dictate what can and cannot be done, that is their faith.

Most would not give up their lives for their beliefs, but would kill and torture those who don't follow their teachings.

[Igel]

5. Because keeping somebody cold, or tied up for 20+ hours,

or forcing them to sit until they wet themselves or crap their pants, may be humiliating, but the "image of God" is fairly untouched.

And because the stories of the detainees hurling feces at the guards are widespread enough. And the report of the average detainee gaining weight (what was it, 18 lbs?) didn't go unnoticed.

Maybe even if the humiliation and degradation was shown to affect almost all the detainees, they'd go for it.

When the movies and pictures of mutilations, extensive burnings and electrical shocks, starvation, rapes and sodomy comes out, they'll go with 'torture'. Until then you only have a human right's group appraisal that some of the claims from released are "credible".

We're operating with different definitions of "torture". "Abuse", most conservatives would go with, but progressives wouldn't. We also have different ideas of what's merited. I haven't heard anybody on the progressive side claim that the recently released Aussie's treatment was harsh, and disbelief that the resistance would do anything wrong--and, if they did, it's merited. Meanwhile, conservatives look at the detainees and figure some abuse may be merited, and react with disbelief that good American kids would do anything wrong. You pick your biases and you run with them.

Now Abu Ghraib, you're talking a different story. If the stories about what the videotapes and pictures show are true--and the incidents are both new, and horrible--then they'll be outrage.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. Because they've been force-fed a theology in which being a "Christian"

boils down to not drinking, not having non-marital sex, not watching "indecent" entertainment, and maintaining strict gender roles.

In their minds, the fact that Lynndie England had a child out of wedlock (although they'll give her consolation points for not having an abortion) is probably worse than her tormenting a bunch of "heathen terrorists."

Two phrases sum it up. Years ago, a junior high school classmate moved away and was enrolled in a "Christian" school. "The kids here are all Christians," she wrote to a friend who showed me the letter." They don't smoke, swear, dance, drink, or go on unchaperoned dates."

In contrast, a popular song among mainstream Christians in that era had the refrain, "And they'll know that we're Christians by our love."

[TWiley]

7. Because that is how they discipline their children.

I saw one child being savagely beaten by this church freak, and I got preached at by these goons for trying to intervene.

Evidently, one must beat the "will" out of a child to prepare him to "accept" bullshit by faith alone.

[Taxloss]

8. Because they think it's the right thing to do.

And no one picks them up on it.

[GeekMonkey]

9. If they believe in a magic man in the sky

They'll believe anything.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. Because the right people are being tortured.

You know, non-christian, brown, funny language. All that.

After all, where does the bible speak out against torture?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DanCa]

12. The christian right arent the right christians

I love Al Sharpton's line. But seriously look at the way the loved seeing the image of my god brutalized and tortured in that horrible flick passion of the christ. There against violence and bloody movies but have no problems putting up abortion photos and scare kids half to death on the highway. I am not a fruedian or a jungian so I dont know the reason how people can be hypocrites.- Speaking of hypocrisy isnt it ironic that Mel "go to hell" Gibson doesn't believe in evolution but is a big fan of the monkees band? But on every level there loaded with hypocrisy arent they? Pro life pro gun pro war explain that one too me?
Anyhow I stopped trying to figure out the sheeple. Because Mahilia Jackson sang it best "Everyone talking about heaven is not going to get there." And I take solace in the fact that whatever sick thing this red god is that they worship its not Jesus.

.

[ComerPerro]

13. They don't see the Quran as a representation of God

They see it as blasphemy, so to them its ok to destroy it.


Also, they don't care.

At all.

So they are unable to stop and think about people torturing Christian, US Soldiers.

[salin]

14. They missed most of what Jesus taught

and have turned him into an idol where the only point is to worship the idol (in absence of the essence/teachings of Jesus) in order to go to Heaven.

Thus all the messages about love - about empathy - totally missed. That whole do unto other thing... totally irrelevant.

That is the saddest and sickest part of this modern form of radicalized christianity... they preach a selffish form of idolotry, insidiously using Christ as an idol (just a vehicle for being "saved") rather than also as a teacher whose lessons one is to strive to live by. Ironic given the whole do not take in vain... do not worship others above God thing...

The idea that they might consider how we would react were the same treatment given to our own citizens - (eg the point behind the Geneva Conventions) - totally incomprehensible thought to some of them.

[stanwyck]

15. Bush and Co. have redefined Christianity

it's part of the new muscled-up Christianity. Forget Jesus. He was just a weak Liberal. All that "Love Your Enemy" eastern philosophy with no talk of war and vengence.
No, the New Christians have their own "rock" bands. Their own radio/TV/books/movies and celebrities. They're "cool" now. And they don't turn the other cheek.
Porn stars and adulterers are welcome -- as long as they're registered Republicans. Divorce is condoned -- as long as the participants are Republican. Republican children can break the law and ignore the commandments. It's OK. Just as long as they don't enlist.
And a major part of the new Christianity is having absolutely no clue what Christianity actually is. Just follow Bush's lead: rail against gay marriage. Rail against the "others" (notably Muslims), and vote for Republicans. And, presto, you're a good Christian.

[librechik]

16. hey, God is punishing those heathens, not us!

Why don't they come to Jesus and escape their pain?

[yella_dawg]

17. New talking point on RW radio this morning.

Newspaper's serial expose of mistreatment of prisoners, abusive conditions in Illinois prison "sounds a lot like Gitmo".

Well... I guess it's alright then.


Infuriating propagandist made comment to the effect that references to Pol Pot, et. al. "that you don't study about in high school" "go right over most people's heads."

Guess what, fuckwit. Not everybody in this country is as ignorant and brainwashed as you and your listeners.

"A little revolution now and then is a good thing." I don't remember who said that, but this morning, I agree wholeheartedly.

[Modem Butterfly]

18. They confuse Christ with country and Bush with both.