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truth_is_extreme Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:19 PM
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Superb analysis of the NYT on Downing Street Memos
How the NYT covered (up) the leaked British memos on Iraq
by Sanjoy Mahajan
17 June 2005
License: <http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/>

On May 1 the London _Sunday Times_ published leaked minutes -- the
Downing Street Memo -- of a high-level British cabinet meeting held on
23 July 2002 that discussed contingencies, political and military, for
invading Iraq.

In the Cabinet meeting, C
'reported on his recent talks in Washington', where 'military action
was now seen as inevitable' and 'the intelligence and facts were being
fixed around the policy.' In other words, the books were being cooked
to give Bush his war.

The planners assumed 'that the UK would take part in any military
action.' So they had to consider the illegality of the war.
Unfortunately, 'the Attorney-General said that the desire for regime
change was not a legal base for military action.' The
Attorney-General dismissed the three possible excuses: 'self-defence,
humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation'. Self-defense
couldn't work partly because, the British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw
said: 'the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours,
and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or
Iran.' How could the government overcome the illegality? The memo,
and the _Sunday Times_, quotes this puzzle-solving contribution from
Jack Straw:

We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in
the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal
justification for the use of force.

Going to the UN, therefore, was about growing a legal fig leaf. The
foliage was merely for the British government, since the planners
believe that the Americans do not care about legality: The US National
Security Council 'had no patience with the UN route' and 'many in the
US did not think it worth going down the ultimatum route'.

The UK Defence Secretary thought that the 'timeline' for military
action would begin '30 days before the US Congressional elections' November 2002]. So the US government's closest ally expects it to
murder Iraqis in order to win elections, what many antiwar critics
said years ago.


1. COVERAGE IN THE UK

Here are the _Sunday Times_ headlines:

20 March : MI6 chief told PM: Americans 'fixed' case for war
01 May : Blair planned Iraq war from start
22 May : Blair faces US probe over secret Iraq invasion plan

The articles are thorough. The May 1st article discusses the memo in
great detail. Along with that article, the _Sunday Times_ published
the full memo, so readers can find out for themselves what it says.


2. WAITING FOR GODOT

Beginning two months after the first _Sunday Times_ article, the _New
York Times_ published several articles (other than opinion pieces) on
the Downing Street Memo and on its cousin, a briefing paper prepared
for the cabinet meeting.

A thought experiment helps explain the delay (seven weeks since the
publication of the full memo). Imagine a symmetrical situation: An
Iraq government memo, detailing plans to hide chemical weapons from UN
inspectors, is leaked to and reported in the _Sunday Times_. How long
before the _NYT_ reports the story? We can answer with data from a
real experiment. On 22 April 2003 the London _Daily Telegraph_
reported 'Galloway Was in Saddam's Pay, Say Secret Iraqi Documents'.
The (forged) documents were found by the _Telegraph_ reporter David
Blair -- what an unfortunate name -- in a 'burned-out building' in
Baghdad. The _NYT_ headline 'A Briton Who Hailed Hussein Is Said to
Have Been in His Pay' showed up on 23 April, as quick as a daily
newspaper could be. The memo and briefing paper, however, being
critical of the war, were unfit for American consumption for many
weeks.


3. COMPARING THE HEADLINES

Compare the London headlines with these _NYT_ headlines, all the
non-opinion pieces that mention the memo:

1. 20 May : British Memo On U.S. Plans For Iraq War Fuels Critics
2. 07 June : Blair, Due to Meet Bush, Will Push 2 Issues
3. 08 June : Bush and Blair Deny 'Fixed' Iraq Reports
4. 13 June : Prewar British Memo Says War Decision Wasn't Made
5. 14 June : A Peephole to the War Room: British Documents Shed Light
on Bush Team's State of Mind
6. 16 June : 'Exit Strategy' Is More Than a Whisper in Washington,
With Lawmakers Speaking Out
7. 17 June : Memo Shows Bush Misled Public, Antiwar Group Says

I discuss each headline in turn.

* 1. 20 May : British Memo On U.S. Plans For Iraq War Fuels Critics

The headline reports the effect of the memo rather than the important
news, the content of the memo. By interposing war critics, who are
otherwise rarely quoted in the _NYT_, the headline distances the
reader from what the memo says and from what happened in the meeting.
The reader will think, 'Those critics, like a machine needing fuel,
are always hungry and trawling for evidence. So what?' If a
mysterious journalistic credo forbids discussing the memo's contents
and headlines must only discuss effects, it could have read: 'British
Memo On U.S. Plans For Iraq War Multiplies Critics.' An undecided
reader would wonder, 'Undecided people are changing their mind. Maybe
I should read the memo and see what happens to my opinion.'

* 2. 07 June : Blair, Due to Meet Bush, Will Push 2 Issues

This headline does not mention the memo.

* 3. 08 June : Bush and Blair Deny 'Fixed' Iraq Reports

This headline reports that Bush and Blair deny an important point of
the memo, that Bush first decided to go to war and then made up lies
to get public support. No president accused of lying has admitted it,
and I do not expect Blair or Bush to tamper with precedent. If, how
quaint, one expects news to mean _unexpected_ information -- man bites
dog rather than dog bites man -- then the headline contains no news.

* 4. 13 June : Prewar British Memo Says War Decision Wasn't Made

This headline, which contradicts the point of the memo, is anti-news.
The article itself talks about a different document, the briefing
paper, but the headline leads readers to think that the memo says the
opposite of what everyone else says it means. The briefing paper, as
I discuss later, belies what the article says about it.

* 5. 14 June : A Peephole to the War Room: British Documents Shed
Light on Bush Team's State of Mind

Here the memo becomes a dispassionate historical tool shedding light
into great mysteries. The headline offers readers vicarious power via
access to the mind of the 'team', a word evoking the home team that we
are trained to support in American high school (the only learning that
happens there). When the light glinted on the documents, what did it
reveal? The reader does not learn.

* 6. 16 June : 'Exit Strategy' Is More Than a Whisper in Washington,
With Lawmakers Speaking Out

This headline does not mention the memo.

* 7. 17 June : Memo Shows Bush Misled Public, Antiwar Group Says

This headline begins promisingly by stating the memo's contents, and
then undermines the statement as merely the opinion of an antiwar
group. As in headline 1 (`British Memo On U.S. Plans For Iraq War
Fuels Critics'), the _NYT_ has found a role for war critics: to
downplay news that undermines trust in our wars. Readers will think,
'Antiwar groups have been saying Bush misled us since long before the
war started. What is new here?' The headline's message is, 'Nothing
to see here, keep moving.'


4. SUMMARY OF THE HEADLINES

The _NYT_ headlines either ignore the memo <2,6>; deny its main point
<4>, quote others denying it <3>, quote war critics or describe the
memo's effect on them <1,7>, or report the memo as being of mere
clinical interest <5>. No headline states what was said in the
meeting, a feat the _Sunday Times_ managed back on March 20: 'MI6
chief told PM: Americans 'fixed' case for war'. One _Sunday Times_
headline (22 May), like the _NYT_, mentions the effect of the memo,
but it also reveals important information from the memo, the 'secret
Iraq invasion plan'.


5. THE _NYT_ ARTICLES

I discuss each articles in turn.

* 1. 20 May : British Memo On U.S. Plans For Iraq War Fuels Critics

The _NYT_ downplays the significance of the memo with 'It has long
been known that American military planning for the Iraq war began as
early as Nov. 21, 2001' <1>. By using the impersonal passive 'It has
long been known', the article omits who knew, who told them, or when
they found out. It also leads to unanswered questions, such as why,
while invading Afghanistan, the alleged source of the World Trade
Center attackers, the US government planned to invade Iraq.

Military planning differs from deciding to invade. As mathematicians
say, the first is necessary but not sufficient for the second. The
United States has detailed military plans, developed over decades, to
launch nuclear weapons at Russian cities, but it has not decided to
use them (or so we hope). In obscuring this difference, the article
constructs a _fake rebuttal_. The 'long-known' information, while
accurate, seems to discredit the memo, only slow, careful thought
exposes its irrelevance. Without that pause, the reader picks up a
vague feeling that the memo is indeed old news.

On the subject of Bush deciding to invade in 2002, the memo
'provide some contemporaneous validation...though only through
secondhand observations.' It provides merely 'some' validation and
that validation is at best secondhand. Yet one cannot find more
authoritative sources of intelligence information: the head of MI6
talking probably to his counterpart in Washington, the head of the
CIA. Did the _NYT_ treat so gingerly the prewar reports of Iraq's
(invisible) WMD's?

* 3. 08 June : Bush and Blair Deny 'Fixed' Iraq Reports

Article <3> quotes the White House denials:

The White House has always insisted that Mr. Bush did not make the
decision to invade Iraq until after Secretary of State Colin
L. Powell presented the administration's case to the United Nations
Security Council on Feb. 5, 2003...

The only useful information in this denial is the date, 5 Feb 2003,
around which the White House is building its story. Then the article
repeats the fake rebuttal:

But as early as Nov. 21, 2001, Mr. Bush directed Defense Secretary
Donald H. Rumsfeld to begin a review of what could be done to oust
Mr. Hussein.

When the article reveals the crucial information, that the
'intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy', it
downplays their import by appending a 'Sir Richard was reported in the
memo to have told his colleagues.' The reader may think that we have
the word of the memo, of unknown authenticity. But as the earlier
article <1> admits, 'The British government has not disputed the
authenticity of the British memorandum.' Nor has any participant
denied any quote in the memo.

The headline -- 'Bush and Blair Deny 'Fixed' Iraq Reports' -- reveals
the theme. Their denials fill the article:

'There's nothing farther from the truth,' Mr. Bush said...

'Look, both of us didn't want to use our military,'
Mr. Bush added. 'Nobody wants to commit military into combat. It's
the last option.'

Mr. Blair...said, 'No, the facts were not being fixed in any shape
or form at all.'

The article allows that 'The statements contradicted assertions in the
memorandum...', but it spends most of its remaining space discussing
merely the effect of the memo. Its contents have 'dogged
Mr. Blair...', and he was 'generally unsmiling through the 25-minute
news conference'. The first paragraph, again focusing on the effect
over the content, says that the memo upset critics who 'see it as
evidence that the president was intent to go to war with Iraq earlier
than the White House has said.' Like the statement in <1> that
military planning began in November 2001, the statement is true but
irrelevant: irrelevant because it is not intrinsically terrible to go
to war earlier than said. If it were only a week earlier, for
example, who cares? The reporting obscures how Bush first decided to
invade, then, to grow legal fig leaves for Blair, cooked up a UN
ultimatum designed to fail. As reported on the front page of the
London _Guardian_:

A US state department official said he thought it very unlikely that
the Iraqi regime would be prepared to accept the stringent programme
of inspections the US will demand.

As the American intelligence source put it, the White House "will
not take yes for an answer", suggesting that Washington would
provoke a crisis. <'US targets Saddam: Pentagon and CIA making plans[br /> for war against Iraq this year', 14 Feb 2002, p. 1,
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,649867,00.html>]:

The _NYT_ article, continues with more information about the effect of
the memo, '89 Democrats in the House of Representatives have written
to the White House', and the White House sees 'no need' to respond to
the letter. Then comes another fake rebuttal:

Mr. Bush noted of the memorandum that 'they dropped it out in the
middle of his race,' indicating that he thought it had been made
public last month to hurt Mr. Blair's chances for re-election.

The memo had been leaked to hurt Blair, which is irrelevant: The
circumstance does not invalidate the memo, especially when, as
reported in the _NYT_ <1>, its authors and subjects do not dispute its
authenticity.

Then come more Bush/Blair fake rebuttals:

'Now, no one knows more intimately the discussions that we were
conducting as two countries at the time than me,' Mr. Blair said.

That statement, true almost by definition, is as newsworthy as 2+2=4
or dog bites man. The newsworthy question is whether Blair is lying
about the memo. This article was written by Elisabeth Bumiller. In a
panel discussion she protested:

You can say Mr. Bush's statement was not factually accurate. You
can't say the president is lying... <_Extra!_, January/February[br /> 2005, <www.fair.org/index.php?page=2481>]

The reader should not expect Bumiller to conduct a searching
investigation of Blair or Bush's veracity. Empirically Bumiller is
right: A mainstream article saying that the president lied so rarely
appears that one suspects a taboo on the subject. Where from and why,
Bumiller does not say and may not know herself.

* 4. 13 June : Prewar British Memo Says War Decision Wasn't Made

In the memo, Dearlove (head of MI6) says that the decision had been
made and the facts 'were being fixed' around the decision. The
headline <4> claims the opposite. Who are you going to believe: your
eyes or the _NYT_? The article's first paragraph restates its theme:

A memorandum written by Prime Minister Tony Blair's cabinet office
in late July 2002 explicitly states that the Bush administration had
made 'no political decisions' to invade Iraq,

Careful reading reveals that the article is discussing another
document: not the memo but rather the briefing paper prepared for the
Cabinet meeting. The briefing paper does explicitly say: 'no
political decisions have been taken'. However, the complete sentence
is:

Although no political decisions have been taken, US military
planners have drafted options for the US Government to undertake an
invasion of Iraq. <'Cabinet Office paper: Conditions for military[br /> action', 21 July 2002, para. 6, published in the _Sunday Times_
(London), 12 July 2005, and
at<http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/189>]

So, contrary to the _NYT_ fake rebuttal enabled by selective quoting,
invasion planning is underway. The briefing paper says that 'military
planning for action against Iraq is proceeding apace', however 'it
lacks a political framework' . Translated from Foreign
Office speak, the US planners had not sold the war to the US public,
i.e. had not developed the political framework. That sale would come
later because, 'From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce
new products in August' September 2003].

The _NYT_ article emphasizes that the briefing paper 'appeared to take
as a given the presence of illicit weapons in Iraq', and criticizes
its foolishness ('an assumption that later proved almost entirely
wrong'). This imperial disdain, cruder than a fake rebuttal, also
obscures the truth. Readers must drag out the full document and pore
over it. Who except a fanatic has time for that? After doing so, you
find that briefing paper might not accept the presence of 'illicit
weapons'. WMD are key to the 'information campaign...that will need
to give full coverage to the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, including
his WMD, and the legal justification for action.' In other words,
talk of WMD is for selling the war, not necessarily because they
exist.

Then the article produces a fake rebuttal: 'the central fact reported
-- that the American military was in the midst of advanced planning
for an invasion of Iraq -- was no secret.' Advanced planning is not
the same as deciding to go to war. The British minutes and briefing
paper reveal the additional news that the war decision had been made,
news that the _NYT_ avoids by juxtaposing an irrelevant fact.

Just to make sure we understand that everyone accepted that Iraq had
WMD's, the article continues: 'On unconventional weapons, the
memorandum also discloses doubts -- but not that they existed.'

* 5. 14 June : A Peephole to the War Room: British Documents Shed
Light on Bush Team's State of Mind

Article <5> leads with the 'political stir' from the disclosures,
putting it down to the 'opponents' of Bush and Blair -- not opponents
of invading and killing (pro-life people, in a more honest era) -- but
as Blair and Bush's personal antagonists. The article shifts the
debate from policies to personalities. The article then states its
theme early: 'But the documents are not quite so shocking' political opponents claim]. The article has already stated a banal
thesis to refute, that Bush and Blair misled their countries into war;
and even that claim shall be downplayed.

The article contains this rich paragraph:

What no one knew then for certain (though some lonely voices did
predict it) is that American forces would find none of the lethal
chemical or biological weapons that Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair said made
Iraq so dangerous, or that the anti-American insurgency would be so
durable and deadly.

It does name the lonely voices. They include George Galloway MP,
whose May 2005 drubbing of the US Senate made huge headlines in
Britain (but not in America where they happened); they include Scott
Ritter, former chief UN weapons inspector in Iraq. They felt lonely
only in the _NYT_ and the rest of the mainstream media, which hardly
reported their views except to dismiss them.

What makes the insurgency anti-American? The 'insurgents' could be
called Iraqi 'freedom fighters'. An insurgent is 'a person who
revolts against civil authority or an established government'
(Merriam-Webster); by postulating an insurgency rather than a freedom
struggle, the _NYT_ covertly asserts the legitimacy of the American
occupation.

Then we learn that 'the memos are not the Dead Sea Scrolls', a
highbrow expression of disdain, because 'There has been ample evidence
for many months, and even years, that top Bush administration figures
saw war as inevitable by the summer of 2002.' War, in this view, is
like a hurricane, and the Bush administration passively awaited its
approach. Accepting that misleading metaphor for the moment, the
evidence adduced for it, a quote from the _New Yorker_, is weak.
Richard Haass supposedly asked Condoleezza Rice 'whether it made sense
to put Iraq at the center of the agenda, with a global campaign
against terrorism already under way.' She said 'that that decision's
been made...' Putting Iraq at the center of the agenda is almost
certainly necessary to invading Iraq, but it is not sufficient: a
difference that the article obscures.

Then the article downplays the memo for not 'put forward
specific proof that Mr. Bush had taken any particular action'.
Instead it merely gave, in the _NYT_ words, 'a general sense' from
'the impressions of Britain's chief of the Secret Intelligence
Service'. The article does not explain for American readers that this
chief is the counterpart of the CIA director, a post not usually given
to people who comment on their vague impressions. The memo is further
deficient because it 'does not elaborate' on the statement that 'the
intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy': another
fake rebuttal. The lack of elaboration is true and irrelevant. As
Michael Smith, the reporter who broke the stories, said in an online
Q&A:

...as for the reports that said this was one British
official. Pleeeaaassee! This was the head of MI6. How much authority
do you want the man to have? He has just been to Washington, he has
just talked to George Tenet. <16 June 2005, _Washington Post_[br /> online]

After the fake rebuttal, the article then whitewashes the abuse of the
United Nations:

Rather, what the memo seems to emphasize is that the United States
could build greater support for any military action -- especially
from Britain -- by first confronting Iraq through the United
Nations,

Jack Straw's puzzle solution, quoted in the memo, explains what the UN
route was about: creating an ultimatum that Iraq couldn't accept and
using their refusal as the legal fig leaf.

The article finishes with a quote from oil itself, Senator John
D. Rockefeller, who said we need '...a full and complete accounting of
the mistakes leading up to the war in Iraq and what changes are
necessary to fix them.' The base metal of aggressive war has
transmuted into the silver of a mistake. Like the Vietnam war, soon
it will become the gold of an American tragedy.

* 6. 16 June : 'Exit Strategy' Is More Than a Whisper in Washington,
With Lawmakers Speaking Out

Article <6> first mentions the memo deep in the text:

On Thursday, Representative John Conyers Jr., a Michigan Democrat,
will convene a forum on the so-called Downing Street Memo, a leaked
document that appeared to suggest the White House had made a
decision to go to war in the summer of 2002.

The convener is a Democrat, so he is probably already antiwar; his
forum -- not the more official sounding 'hearing' -- is just antiwar
organizing. Furthermore, the reader learns mostly the effect of the
memo with its contents bashfully peeking out from the veils. The memo
merely 'appeared to suggest' that the White House 'had made a
decision' to go to war. The 'appeared' is one indirection, and the
memo only 'suggests', a second indirection separating the reader from
the content of the memo. Even minor sentence constructions contribute
distance: The White House 'had made a decision', a noun phrase rather
than the more active and direct verb 'decided'. The article spends
many words creating space between the reader and the memo, and no
words explaining the the memo's significance: that after the summer of
2002, Bush and Blair's talk of peace and working with the UN was just
marketing (i.e. lies) to build public support and legal cover.

* 7. 17 June : Memo Shows Bush Misled Public, Antiwar Group Says

The most recent _NYT_ coverage <7> leads with:

Opponents of the war in Iraq held an unofficial hearing on Capitol
Hill...to draw attention to a leaked British government document
that they say proves that President Bush misled the public about his
war plans in 2002...

Its hearing is downplayed as 'unofficial', and besides it is held by
opponents of the war, so it is another antiwar event: No news here,
keep moving. The article does not explain that the hearing was
unofficial because Republicans refused to allow it to take place in
the Congressional chambers.

Here is the well-designed second paragraph:

In a jammed room in the basement of the Capitol, Representative John
Conyers Jr. of Michigan...presided as witnesses asserted that the
'Downing Street memo'...vindicated their view that Mr. Bush made
the decision to topple Saddam Hussein long before he has admitted.

It distances the reader with 'witnesses asserted' that the memo
'vindicated their view', rather than the direct 'the memo says...'
The article eventually explains one of the memo's revelations: that
Dearlove says Bush has decided on war. But the article omits the
evidence for Dearlove's statement: a high-level trip to Washington,
probably talking to George Tenet, head of the CIA. As far as the
reader knows, Dearlove could just be sounding off.

The fourth paragraph quotes a mother who damns the war as an 'illegal
invasion of another sovereign country on prefabricated and
cherry-picked intelligence'. The reader learns that her son had been
killed in Iraq, and is invited to think that she is hysterical and too
involved to be objective.

The article then reprints Bush's denials without comment:

'Nobody wants to commit military into combat. It's the last
option.' He added, 'We worked hard to see if we could figure out
how to do this peacefully.'

Without pausing to comment, let alone to refute, the report continues
with Mr. Conyers and colleagues delivering 'bundles they said
contained the names of more than 560,000 Americans gathered on the
Internet who had endorsed his letter to the president demanding
answers to questions raised by the memo.' The 'they said' casts doubt
on the list, but the reporter gives no evidence that Conyers
fabricated the names or did not gather them on the Internet. If the
count is doubted, he could have inspected the bundles himself, counted
the names on one page, estimated the number of pages, and then
multiplied the figures to arrive at his own estimate. The White
House's fake rebuttal, that Conyers voted against the war, is quoted
verbatim. Conyers probably voted against the war, but -- making the
rebuttal fake -- his vote is irrelevant to what the memo says or
whether Bush lied. Even granting the fake rebuttal a comment, the
reporter could have refuted it by stating how many of the 122
Congressional co-signers voted for the war.

The article explains nothing more of the memo's contents. The last
paragraph mentions that another document -- the briefing paper --
warned of a long 'nation-building exercise'. Careful, America, do not
let your helping impulse (building nations) put you into the soup!


6. SUMMARY

The _NYT_ articles -- masterpieces of delay, indirection, distraction,
fake rebuttals, and elegant omission -- keep readers ignorant of the
lies and the lying liars who tell them. No wonder so many Americans
still support this gangster war.

No _NYT_ article comments on perhaps the most revolting revelation of
the memo. The UK Defence Secretary thought that the US military
'timeline 30 days before the US Congressional
elections.' Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi die so that Americans
elect a crowd of pirates perched on the rotting platform of the war of
terror.


Copyright 2005 Sanjoy Mahajan <sanjoy@mrao.cam.ac.uk>. This work is
licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. To
view a copy of this license, visit
<http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/> or send a letter to
Creative Commons, 559 Nathan Abbott Way, Stanford, California 94305,
USA.
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truth_is_extreme Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-23-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. the problem in the second part
is not in my original.
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. A must read - excellent analysis, but ...
Those lines thru the last part make it almost impossible to read. Could you correct it? I assume "the problem" you speak of is those lines? This really should be read by other DU'ers!
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truth_is_extreme Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I tried to correct it
but my original text doesn't have these annoying lines, maybe it's DU's software?
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. the problem is an s inside square brackets
Edited on Fri Jun-24-05 03:54 AM by muriel_volestrangler
Writin this in plain text (so it doesn't do it again), I think
your original says "provide[s] some contemporaneous
validation". That [s] is the DU indication to turn on
'strike out' - and there's no [/s] to turn it off, so it lasts
for the rest of the article.

Maybe you could post it again, but use '(s)'?

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truth_is_extreme Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-24-05 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. thank you
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