does anyone know what the deal is with *s new color guard?

[DemBeans]

I've noticed lately that when * appears with a foreign leader in the White House, they walk through a short corridor to elevated podiums.

This is new - lining the corridor now is a very large color guard with the flags of the representative of whatever country or countries are appearing with *, interspersed with the U.S. flag. When * and the leader(s) he's appearing with pass through the corridor, the color guard dips their flags as they pass by.

I've seen this twice now in the last week or so, and I don't recall that it's ever been done before. It disconcerts me because it has a royalist tone to it, this dipping of the flag before a president. It's just creepy, like they're trying to build him up again as some kind of demigod or a king. Has anyone else noticed this? Do you remember any other president honoring themselves in such a way?

[evlbstrd]

1. I haven't seen it, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

With Bush. I've watched presidents on the teevee since Kennedy, and never ever saw anything like that.

[IndyOp]

2. It sounds like you are right about the pageantry

designed to build up *'s power. I don't remember any other president putting on such airs -- the Reagan's certainly like their formality...

:kick:

[Bozita]

3. Nixon outfitted the palace guard with garish banana republic uniforms

... but I don't recall the flag dipping.

picture is at link:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://americanhistory.si.edu/presidency/2b4_b.html&h=109&w=200&sz=4&tbnid=fX9-SUMJbP0J:&tbnh=53&tbnw=99&hl=en&start=9&prev=/images%3Fq%3DNixon%2Buniform%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG

here:

Secret Service uniform hats

President Richard M. Nixon, impressed by the imperial pageantry of European guards, attempted to create a more formal atmosphere for his own state occasions by having new uniforms designed for the White House Secret Service Uniformed Division. They were first worn during a 1970 state visit by British Prime Minister Harold.

Americans expect a certain degree of formality with the presidency but are leery of too much pomp and circumstance. The gold-trimmed tunics and peaked hats struck many Americans as a comical attempt to emulate the trappings of European royalty. The black hat was first to go, replaced by the soft white hat. The entire uniform was abandoned during the mid-1970s.

[Hand]

11. BWAHAHAHA!!

I remember that one--the poor White House Police looked like the Ruritanian Imperial Guards and were totally embarrassed and pissed off. Not to mention the agonizing ribbing they got from their colleagues on the force! :rofl:

The whole thing was scrapped after a couple of days and they reverted to their usual uniforms. Truly entertaining--Pat Oliphant did a hilarious cartoon depicting the White House Police as a bunch of simpering pooves.

[lumpy]

17. I got a chuckle remembering

Nixon's attempt to bring pomp and circumstance to the WH. It was such a contrast to his dark dour colorless demeanor.

[paineinthearse]

4. Are you saying the color gurad is dipping the US flag?

Dzitka, you have video of this?

[DemBeans]

7. yes, absolutely

They dip both the U.S. flag and the national flag of the leader appearing with Bush. They did this when Blair appeared with him in the White House recently, and I believe it was also done with the Vietnamese leader. There are probably ten flags lining each wall, so there are a LOT of flags dipping. It's very obvious and shocking.

It's totally freaky - I've never seen it before in any administration, even this one up to last week.

[Poiuyt]

10. Isn't that against American flag etiquette?

We don't dip the American flag at the Olympics. Why does Bush hate the flag so much?

[DemBeans]

12. here's the result of a quick google search

One reason given for this is that the flag of the United States is lowered for no mortal man. And after all, a king is merely a mortal! And that to this day, the Stars & Stripes is the only flag that is not dipped when the Head of State is saluted during the Parade of Flags. However, poetic as this explanation may be, it's not clear whether such a rule for the USA flag existed in 1908. The rule is part of the first USA Flag Code, but that Flag Code wasn't drawn up until 1923. On the other hand, in the early 20th century, veterans of the Union Army in the American Civil War waged a campaign against what they considered indignities to the Stars & Stripes, and the rule against dipping the American flag may have originated from that campaign

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/[e-mail]

[AlienGirl]

18. "lowered for no mortal man"--holy shnorkies!

Is the message being sent that * is the Messiah?

Tucker

[paineinthearse]

22. As a vet I am PISSED OFF!!!!!!!

Someone, please get a link to video or pictures.

We'll DU this to hell!

[DemBeans]

24. here's my follow up from last night...

First of all, dipping the flag is not only discouraged, but it's apparently against the law.

4 U.S. Code Chapter 1, Sec. 8.: Respect for flag - "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing."

I've searched every piece of video I can find online to capture the corridor flag dipping, but all of the US media sources begin their footage past this stage when Bush and Blair step up to the podiums. I know he's done it at least one further time - it might have been with the Luxembourg and Portugal representatives - but I figured there would be more available footage of the Blair visit.

I found some success at BBC. It also begins at the podiums, but early enough so you can see - in a very brief glimpse - the flags returning to an upright position after their dips, including the American flag.

You can find the footage here, at the "Bush Blair Statement" video link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4071504.stm

What he's forcing the White House color guard to do is ILLEGAL.

Who in the hell does this ninny think he is?

[Horse with no Name]

35. You need to get over it

Rules don't apply to *.
Anyway--he probably doesn't even know there are rules to flags.
:sarcasm:

Oh I hate this man and what he has done to our country.:(

[jobycom]

5. BushCo is trying to create the image of untouchability

He is the emperor, above our petty political squabbling. The cult of the state and the head of the state should reign supreme and be worshipped beyond question. The emperor is a god.

Classic trick of dictators everywhere, including the mustachioed one that we are not supposed to compare Bush to.

Reagan was very much into pomp and circumstances, too. It always seems to me that the emptier the leader, the more they rely on symbols for their importance.

Now, look for someone to circulate an email claiming that Bush is so respected by his color gaurd that they created this tribute on their own, just like the email that made the equally false claims about Bush's military gaurd and their salutes.

[Hekate]

19. The one with the bushy mustache or the one with the

... Chaplinesque little nose-tickler? ;-)

> Classic trick of dictators everywhere, including the mustachioed
> one that we are not supposed to compare Bush to.

Actually, dipping the flag is part of its traditional etiquette, but I can't remember for which occasions.

When it comes to Bush the Lesser, he just loves surrounding himself with men in uniform, and he loves dressing up in military uniforms himself.

Penny-ante Banana Republican.

Hekate

[Scout1071]

6. I absolutely noticed this and thought it looked odd.

They did it with Bush and Blair.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Does this remind anybody of when Nixon had those ridiculous uniforms

designed for the White House security guards. They looked like something from a German comic opera, the sort of uniforms you'd expect to see on Kaiser Wilhelm's guards. Busholini has gone imperial. Just like Nixon, only dumber.

[Cleita]

13. I was just going to post that.

Fortunately we had a press that ridiculed the idea enough to make him drop it. Too bad, we don't have the same media today.

[MichiganVote]

9. I noticed it and I did not approve the message

[Media_Lies_Daily]

14. Won't be long before they start to appear like this.....

<>

[Oversea Visitor]

15. All Hail

The Emperor Chimp
Gee Disconneted from Reality
He is creating his own fantasy to live in. x(

[DemBeans]

16. I just checked the C-SPAN Blair/Bush video

It doesn't show the flag dipping - they're both past that stage and stepping onto the podiums when the video opens - but it does show the color guard in the background. Looks like 4, perhaps 5 very large flags on each side of the corridor, 8-10 in total, carried by a multi-service color guard.

I'd love to get a vid cap of his color guard dipping the US flag as he passed, and making some trouble about it. It really bothered me when I saw it.

[paineinthearse]

23. Potential sources of video

My PC is a dog, so perhaps someone can go through the streaming video here http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/ and find the offending one. The most promising appears to be June 20, 2005:
President Hosts United States - European Union Summit Video

[AllyCat]

29. I looked there Paine, but there is no video of the Vietnamese

meeting and the EU/US one shows them already down the corridor and at the podia. All one can see is the flags still MOVING in the hands of the colorguard, but it is impossible to tell what really happened.

Would be great to see it on TV and then barrage the media with the inappropriateness and unlawfulness of the action.

[paineinthearse]

52. CSPAN has video of today's */Jafari Joint Press Conference

at http://www.cspan.org/

Pres. Bush & Iraqi P.M. Jafari Joint Press Conference (06/24/2005)

...but I can't get it to open.

It should show the march down the corridor.

[applegrove]

20. Yeah - Bush walked to the podium and the flags that had been held

high were dropped. Don't recall seeing such charade.. parade before. May have something to do with the police who were his backdrop a few weeks ago.

Seems the man cannot stand alone anymore. His image is worthless!

[Karenina]

21. Here's another image for ya!

[autorank]

25. Kick & recommend

:kick:

[fooj]

26. This is bullshit! Time to go on the offense, IMO!

We need to fire a copy of that law off to everyone we know and then DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY!

peace.

[paineinthearse]

27. Sent to my Congresscritters

My Rep is on the House Armed Services Committee. Also to my two Senators, both veterans.

Rep. Meehan, Senator Kennedy, Senator Kerry & Rep. Meehan:

Friends are telling me they are seeing the US flag dipped as Bush passes during White House ceremonies. If this is being done, it is against the law:

4 U.S. Code Chapter 1, Sec. 8.: Respect for flag - "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing."

Please read http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3934745&mesg_id=3934745 and be on the lookout.

As a veteran, I find this highly offensive and ask you to look into this matter.

Regards,

me

[Algorem]

28. Did they do it today?

[DemBeans]

31. I missed the beginning...

Damn - and I wanted to check to see if they did it again.

Did anyone else catch the Grand Entrance today?

[doublethink]

46. Yep Cnn just replayed them walking in past the Color Guard.

The Color Guard was holding the flags up high, once * and the Iraqi passed, the Color Guard brought the flags straight down and placed the polls on the ground. Is that considered 'dipping' the flag? FUGWB

[Coexist]

47. no - I believe dipping is lowering the flag AS they pass - not after

like a quick salute - dip, then back up. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

[mdelaguna2000]

30. way to watchdog

So great you observed this - hope he gets a smackdown for it, how utterly offensive and this epitomizes everything that's wrong with him and his administration.

[I Have A Dream]

32. Recommended. n/t

:kick:

[holboz]

33. Does C-Span have video? n/t

[smartvoter]

34. I have wondered the same thing. And the camera angles are desined to

show the flags and soldiers as he speaks. nt

[goclark]

36. I thought these REGRESSIVES respected the flag so much!

Let's nail um now.

Let's teach them what honor they country is really aboiut.

This is perfect with the lead in to the 4th of July..let's MARCH!

[holboz]

40. C-span link to video

http://www.c-span.org/VideoArchives.asp?CatCodePairs=,&ArchiveDays=100&Page=12

Select the Pres. Bush and Tony Blair press conference


I have to admit, I'm not sure if what the color guard is doing is unusual..??? (setting the flag pole down on the floor) It's been a long time since I've seen a color guard in action so please let me know. I admit my memory is a bit fogged.

[smartvoter]

50. "Designed" Dammit -- just caught it. nt

[Walt Starr]

37. Bush has a history of flag desecration

So why should this surprise anybody.

It is, however, illegal.

[DemBeans]

38. found a link...

I wondered who might possibly be brain dead enough to be impressed by this display of megalomania, and the answer hit me: Fox News viewers.

Sure enough, FNC has a link that shows the flag-dipping during his EU conference.

http://ad-server-d10.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?062005/bush_eu_062005&FNL&Bush%20Welcomes%20EU%20Leaders&acc&U.S.%20%26%20World&-1&col

[Coexist]

39. link to blank screen n/t

http://ad-server-d10.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160122,00.html

[DemBeans]

43. try this one

This page has the original video link...

http://ad-server-d10.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160122,00.html

[Coexist]

44. I don't see the dip when they walk by?

[DemBeans]

45. it's a little too far into their walk to really tell...

It's easier to spot when they're entering the corridor, but in this video you can see them raise then lower the flags after they've dipped them. It's a lot of movement when you see it live as they walk through the area.

[unhappycamper]

41. Seig Heil!

Our Dear Leader takes nationalism to another level.

http://www.sternengalaxie.de.nyud.net:8090/galerie/Bush/Bush_-_Sieg_Heil.jpg

http://www.jasonbentley.org.nyud.net:8090/blog/img/sieg_heil.jpg

http://www.answers.com.nyud.net:8090/main/content/wp/en/thumb/0/04/180px-Hitler_walking_out_of_Brown_House_after_1930_elections.jpg

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

60. DummyRummy got it wrong

it's the right arm/hand

and it's sIEg heil, not sEIg heil.

oh man...

[senseandsensibility]

42. Has anyone seen that picture of * signing an American flag?

It's taken from the back, over his shoulder, and he's autographing it! Does anyone know the pic I'm talking about it? Is it real? Combined with this, we may have something.

[cyberpj]

53. How about Poppy having it sewn into a suit lining? Seen this one?

[paineinthearse]

54. Yes, I've seen it, thanks for the reminder

I searched Google images, and found .......


http://www.thetyee.ca/2004/12/30/

I think this is the one you are thinking of

[senseandsensibility]

56. That's it!

I think I originally saw it on bartcop. Do you know if it's real?

[paineinthearse]

57. I don't, and this backwater conversation will get the attention it needs

Maybe you could start new post asking the source question.

[leftofthedial]

48. it's all theater

soon, he'll be wearing a gold helmet with a big red plume

[ThomWV]

49. Dip The God Damned Things To Half Mast

Hasn't anyone told that son of a bitch that 1,730 of our soldiers are dead?

[cyberpj]

51. I did notice this and wondered about it - glad you brought it up here! TX.

It doesn't seem familiar to me for any other president.

[Nothing Without Hope]

55. I hate this. He's saying he's more important than the country and its laws

...And isn't that just a symbolic representaton of what he obviously does believe.

There are experts on flag etiquette - I would LOVE it if this turned out to be a major infraction. The symbolism looks damning to me.

[MADem]

58. Uh, I think they are "posting the colors" not dipping them

This is SOP at changes of command, retirement ceremonies, and other formal military occasions. The formation is international color guard, where you toss in the flag of the host country or visiting dignitary. No protocol errors that I noted when watching.

THAT SAID....

This whole business of color guards at PRESS CONFERENCES is ABSURD!!!

At an arrival ceremony, FINE. Departure ceremony, OF COURSE. Military parade, ceremony or review of the troops, DE RIGUER! But at a fucking PRESS CONFERENCE??? What's next? Will a color guard accompany him to the bike path in MD on his exercise routine? How about a color guard to escort him and his chain saw to some brush that needs cutting??

That's the outrage, not the handling of the flags.

Am I the only one who remembers the day when the President addressed the nation on TV WITHOUT AN AUDIENCE? "My fellow Americans..." followed by a quick, five to ten minute speech that raised a particular issue or announced an important policy change...at the end, you'd hear "Thank you, good night and (optional) God Bless America." We now return to regular programming...already in progress!! Oh, good, we only missed five minutes of BEWITCHED!

Nowadays, the chimp cannot and will not say ANYTHING without having a captive, cheering audience behind him. It's like a campaign stop, fa chrissake. The last solo flight on TV that I remember was that bullshit stem cell smackdown from Crawford...ever since, he only goes on TV with a set, props, and a bunch of cheering, handpicked supporters, or sullen military types behind him who yell "oooh rah" because they are ORDERED to.

Give me those plain presidents, who has enough confidence in the people and the nation that they didn't need gussying up, flags, crowds, and military style outfits to make themselves feel important. The whole trappings horseshit seems disturbingly Hitlerian to me, frankly. It suggests a serious disconnect with the nation. The little shit is starting to think that he is the STATE, and that is frightening. The BoyKing, indeed!

[goclark]

63. I saw the flags come UP today

on cable.

The pres had walked by and they were talking at the podium THEN the flags came up.

So they must have been down when Bush walked by with his guest.

[paineinthearse]

59. Photo - no dipped flags in evidence here

Could be the timing.

[MADem]

61. The whole charade is absurd

Forcing a color guard to serve as, in essence, FLAG STANDS, is abuse of authority, IMHO.

Whatever happened to a single, simple dignified flag of each nation? On a flag stand? With a simple backdrop?

Trappings don't make you look more authoritative, they make you look weak. Of course, anyone with real confidence in themself gets that...

[senseandsensibility]

62. Ewww...isn't the little chimperer

just oozing confidence in that pic? He really is too stupid to know how stupid he is....