Complete nut commits suicide by cop to protest paying child support

[Modem Butterfly]

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/g/gay/2005/gay062305.htm

Perry Manley is dead. He was a father and a good man. He spent a great deal of time and effort over the past 15 years fighting injustice in family law, particularly regarding issues of custody and child support. On Tuesday, he gave his life to the cause.

After years of protest marches, filing lawsuits, and objecting to the treatment he and other parents receive, to no avail, Perry Manley dressed himself in military clothing and went to the courthouse with one last appeal - and a dummy hand grenade. After being noticed by security guards, and confronted by police, he placed papers on the floor that he wanted to present to a judge. Then, one twitch and it was over.

SNIP

He objected to divorce on religious grounds. He did not object to supporting his children, but objected to being forced to pay arbitrary amounts to his ex-wife. Forced to accept divorce, he felt strongly that he should have equal parenting time and that under such an arrangement, child support should not be ordered. He strongly objected to having child support withheld from his wages.


Edited title for accuracy.

[radwriter0555]

1. Yeah, those men sure are such wonderful fellas.. and the poor things are

always so discriminated against...

He didn't want to support his children, so he decides to kill himself. He and this alleged movement reduce the financial support of the children he created in a marriage to just 'a debt'... and we're supposed to feel that he's been deprived of his rights.

Meanwhile the poor kid's mom is the primary financial provider because she chose to get away from this nutcase. And now, she IS better off without him.

[Modem Butterfly]

2. To say nothing of the cops who killed an unarmed man

Granted, he sure as shit made himself look armed, but that's got to be a heavy load for the cops. What a miserable excuse for a human being.

[DistressedAmerican]

5. As Much As I Generally Dislike Cops, I Can't Fault Them In This

case. They thought he had a handgrenade. He wanted them to think that. He got himself killed.

[noamnety]

8. I can't fault them either

I'm a little surprised that anyone would point to a guy that goes to a courthouse with a hand grenade (real or not) as someone that should have had more parental rights. This wouldn't be my first choice for a poster child for this cause.

[fishwax]

35. No kidding!

"I'm a little surprised that anyone would point to a guy that goes to a courthouse with a hand grenade (real or not) as someone that should have had more parental rights."

:crazy:

[seabeyond]

3. as a woman, i say, the court are unfair to males

it is wrong. and as a woman, i feel it important i stand up for males on this. i watched for over a decade with my brother fighting for custody how the woman inevitably was treated better, immediately believed and thought better of on first glance because she was female, and borther male

it is wrong

any unequal justice is wrong and should be spooken out against

and for us to make silly comments like, ya the poor man, or other ridiculing comments, without taking htis seriously, is wrong and will feed out in our society. it is our responsibility to meet any injustice and speak out against it

women know how to use and play this game.

[Modem Butterfly]

4. If you want to support your argument, this isn't the case to do it

This guy objected to his divorce on religious grounds and used that as an excuse to object to paying child support. The real losers here are his children.

[seabeyond]

6. well you are right of course.

was at the coutry club wed with all the "beautiful" people. you know the many many second wives and families, swimming in the pool, sunnin. one of my nemesis came up, hadnt seen her for a while she married a dude about the same time as me, over a decade ago. in the middle of divorce. sold his business three years ago for 100m. doesnt want to give her a dime. hiding the money in daddy's corp.

at first thought with divorce, gonna pick better next time and money not be the reason for marriage. then after the story, get his ass

but i do have a real issue with the court system, per male and female. i have seen too many experiences where it irrationally sides with the female, simply because she is titled mama. i also recognize we have gone to extreme in this because of history of woman being abused in the system,........

[Modem Butterfly]

30. There are many things that are deeply screwed up with child custody

I think nuts like this guy take advantage of that fact for their own twisted ends though.

[seabeyond]

34. i have just watched children ultimately the victim

always. i have watched with nieces and nephews, friends and extended family. not to mention what we read nation wide.

i think we can do better

cause, i cant let these children start yelling victim, even experiencing all this. not healthy. but would be better if they didnt have this cross to bare. as an adult, i think it is our job to do something about it

for the children

i just had a lot of eye openers in the court system. i had never done. also with calif three strike law. i experienced that with a couple people that last couple years. have seen a lot.

[havocmom]

7. When I was a kid, I saw a mother working her ass off to pay off debts

created by a drunk and incestious bastard and not get any help from the courts in getting him to pay the paltry child support of $30 a month for two kids.

Guess what, not all courts treat the female parent expecially well. Take your personal experiences for what they are: PERSONAL and don't presume to know how it always goes down.

I have worked with too many women having the same problems my mom had to think her's was a unique experience.

[seabeyond]

9. as modern pointed out, wasnt a good post for me

to put this up. because of speaking of child support. you are right, not paying child support is rampant and wrong and has created the poorest in our society as female and children. i perused the op and was seeing alimony not child support because of a particular section in post. i re read.

[seabeyond]

10. but also i think it was clear i wasnt speaking of paying child support

vs not paying. i think it was clear i was speaking of the court decision making process. dont you

[havocmom]

16. Gee, she (my mom) got stuck with the debts he created...

THAT was also a court decision that had nada to do with child support. 'The courts' do not always favor women. That is a fact and there are a lot of stories to back it up. Won't bother you with my tale of a husband and his paramour and who the courts protected...

[seabeyond]

19. it isnt a matter of taking anything away from you havocmom

it is about being fair and just. not in a box. not blinded. i dont want to take anything away from you. i want it better for all. that includes fathers. i will have their back, as i equally have your mothers. i think........we are that good and that able

[havocmom]

23. not blinded?

You insist that, due to your brother's experience the courts favor females?

Take off the blinders. I'm not the one making invalid generalizations.

But the way, I have also worked with male advocacy groups and counsled children whose parents are going through divorce. I have seen a lot of strange things but never, never a court that just favors females due to gender.

[seabeyond]

25. oh but i acknowledged mine. in many ways, many posts n/t

[seabeyond]

26. i dont have a problem saying i didnt get it right, lets start over n/t

[havocmom]

29. Rather not

There are other walls to beat on

Have a nice day

[seabeyond]

32. wow......lol lol lol. bye n/t

[GiovanniC]

15. I've Definitely Seen It Go Both Ways

I've seen a good father basically told he can only see his children every other weekend because "children need their mother" (they don't need their father?). I think that's bullshit, frankly, and would be devestated if that was me in his place.

On the other hand, my cousin got rid of an abusive boyfriend who literally KIDNAPPED HER and took her across state lines from Michigan to Kentucky, where he held her prisoner, tied to a chair, for nearly a week because he didn't want to pay child support. When the case went to court, he ended up getting a 50%/50% custody arrangement where he had their daughter half the time and only had to pay $6.00 per month to the court for some kind of administrative fee. My cousin never got anything.

That arrangement ended when, one day, her mother (my aunt) drove her to his house to pick up her daughter. My cousin had just finished putting her daughter in her car seat and was getting in the passenger seat when he pulled a knife and began stabbing her. My aunt, terrified, began driving to get rid of him. He held onto the door frame, continuing to wildly stab my cousin in the leg, chest, arm, and shoulder. My aunt aimed to slam his body into a tree, which she succeeded in doing, and then drove to a nearby house to call the police. Although they thought he was dead, it turned out he had survived the crash into the tree. Police found him a few hours later in the woods behind his uncle's house. He had gotten a gun from his uncle's house and shot himself in the head.

In another incident, another aunt had two children -- a boy and a girl. She was working part-time and trying to put herself through college and make a better life for herself and her kids. At court, the judge bizarrely decided to award custody of the boy to the father and the girl to the mother. As if that wasn't bad enough, he ordered her to pay child support to her ex-husband. When she protested, saying she made hardly anything and was trying to put herself through school, he told her she would have to quit school and made a comment to the effect of, "You women think you want to be treated equal. There you go. Get a job and pay child support."

[seabeyond]

20. this is why we so often go to male/female battle

i had the opportunity the last 5 years to watch two brother experience this. i did the research, i supported, i was the ....arbritrated, i heard all the woes, the mother, kids and father.....

it was an eye opener for me. a lesson. i learned a lot. seeing single fathers, with children, in so many of the same situations the mother, and i see when they need help, a more basic denying. i want these children to be getting help too. the fathers too. they are tired too, and working ass off

but never taking away from the abusiveness of male in anger situation. we pretty clearly know, males do emotion in a physical manner. throw in alcohol and all bets are off to reason.

and there are a lot of manipulative survival oriented smart women out there

does diservice to all that are looking for the best, and reasoned decision

appreciate the brain stimulation. otherwise post pretty useless, wink

[GiovanniC]

27. There Are a Lot of Guys and Girls Out There Whose Main Concern

Is not the children, but the money.

I've seen a lot of cases where the guy is most interested in the scenario that has him paying the absolute minimum amount of child support with no regard toward the children who might be depending on it.

And I've seen a lot of cases where the woman is most interested in screwing the father over... minimum visitation, maximum support, even at the detriment of the children.

There are some courts who are still wrapped up in antiquated notions that fathers are not important in the lives of children. They do a disservice to the children whose interests they are duty-bound to protect.

Then, there are some courts who are so afraid of any appearance of favoring a mother over a father that they err on the side of disaster where it involves abusive or unstable parents. This also does a disservice to the children.

And then some judges seem to be assholes for fun and profit. I don't know what to say about them, except that I presume (hope) that they are a tiny, tiny minority.

In the end, it's all about the children and all too often least about the children.

[seabeyond]

31. ya ya ya that is what makes this challenging

so i guess it is advocating, .....what

maybe it is regional too. because of the male attitude in relationship, connecting the religion, they may be a little behind on this. they may still be trying to be so far over, because they tend to let male rape and kill women, .....and black, in drunken bigotry

way out there in extreme.

just making a visual.

i have been stuck here for a decade and half. i am use to and from west coast. was a different world

[Rainbowreflect]

11. I agree with you in general, but I have done some research

on this guy & is was a nut case. Everything was about him & his rights. He did not give a shit about his kids.

[seabeyond]

13. you know what, was just in a mind set.......

when i read i was in a certain place, visualizing. it is what happens when we sit in agenda. with any of us. i tend to stay away from agenda for that reason. it is simply something i will speak out on in the future, like, supporting single parent (parent) with children thru govt programs,

thank you for your balance

[havocmom]

18. A cop pal of mine, discussing domestic disturbance calls, said the most

dangerous room in the house is the kitchen. To many potential weapons there. And the most dangerous THING in a house is a bible on the coffee of dining table. He said when a guy uses the crutch of religion in his marriage, he thinks he OWNS his wife and kids. My cop pal said those guys can be very dangerous when confronted with the fact that they can't do anything they want to with other people. When they believe God put them in charge they can be just plain unreasonable about secular laws and other people's rights.

[seabeyond]

21. very good points. yes yes

hm

on edit: havocmom this is what i am saying. because this is very true, it is valid. so talking to a male that isnt this, he says, why should i pay. and i say, because your gender is this. you may not be, but these are the facts. and i am sorry.

but it is. but if those of us that see and know this stuff, can also tell ourselves, tis is not all males,.....and remember this in time of high emotion, i think it will be productive and helpful for all of us

and better allow us to ultimately help these women in these situations. though clearly, and more so today, a woman will pick up that knife in the kitchen too. for different reasons. valid and not

[havocmom]

22. I know a lot of females who pay not only child support

but spousal maintaince too.

The courts are not stacked against males

[seabeyond]

24. well i have certainly never seen it. must be ne coast

or a much higher econmic level than what i experience. cause i dont see that at all, ever. huh uh. my other brother, raising boys, he has always been asked to pay, and she has never been nor is it expected. we laugh about the thought of even having that expectation of fairness. so that hasnt been in my economic scale in the situation

at all

it may be out there i am sure, but i would suggest that isnt consistant

[havocmom]

28. Gee, thanks so much for allowing the possibility that your personal

and biased experiences with your brother's case might not be the way things always go.

Have a nice day.

[seabeyond]

33. well i never have been one to say always. i think i purposely steer

clear of that. yet.......you continually tell me that is what i am saying. so again, what stories are you telling

on edit: what stories are you telling
to keep to your agenda and the walls up that you really really dont want to knock down so you can what.............see

[warrens]

12. As a divorced father, yeah, the woman normally gets the better of the deal

But to say that no support should ever be paid is ludicrous. This guy was a total nut, and my suspicion is that he was obsessed with money and resentment.

[whalerider55]

14. two more cents

back in the early seventies, i knew a guy who left his wife for a woman who was ten years older than his older son.

after trying unsuccessfully to make case law that an indigent person deserved a court appointed attorney, he finally agreed to a divorce- provided his wife picked up $10,000 in credit card bills he had generated, and wouldn't ask for alimony.

he was ordered to pay $10 a month to cover child support for each of his two kids. One was 15 at the time the other 13- a grand total of $960 over five years. They never saw a penny of it; he worked off the books for years and drove jeeps and a jaguar.

we weren't a debt. we were children. there is a reasonable expectation in this country that we are responsible for those we choose to bring into the world. the courts need to support that.

i feel bad for this guy, as i would for anybody who loses sight of what really matters here- it used to be that we'd sacrifice everything to make things better for the next generation. now under the present administration, it is perfectly OK to saddle the next generation with financial debts they'll never repay. this guys kids will have a different attitude about money.

this guy isn't a loser, he was lost. and his kids, who could be argued to have gained by his long walk off a short pier, have still lost their father- that is a wound they will bear a long time.

we are a twisted fucking culture, where a person can use religious belief to try to persuade us that his kids can legitimately be underfed for half the week (suppose mom can't find work) and then ultimately make it OK for him to threaten others with death and cast the responsibility for his own death into the hands of others.

shit.
this sucks.

whalerider

[lonestarnot]

17. Poor children...